39 replies to this topic

[Prostfan]

Just found a picture of a curios looking car:



Can anyone tell me more about this? Or is there a thread around?

[Wolf]

Prostfan, Hodges has him as rear engined F2 (BMW 328 engine and wheels) with VW suspension parts (and preumably gearbox) Klodwig's homemade car. He entered both '52 and '53 German GP (finished 15th in '53, albeit 3 laps down)- but had quite a good career in GDR: usualy finishing on 'podium'...

The remarkable thing is that he used it to get to 'Ring with all his gear strapped on.

[bobbo]

Kinda sorta looks like the old Auto Union, don't it??

Bobbo

[scheivlak]

What - the Heck?
There's some info on this strange beast at http://8w.forix.com/8w-599.html

[Vitesse2]

Only one thing to add - the name "Heck" means "tail", indicating that it was rear-engined. Presumably Ernst was influenced by Auto Union....

No doubt Fines can tell us more.

[Don Capps]

Here is what I submitted back then:

8w1-599
Who? Ernst Klodwig, (East) German; 23 May 1903 – 15 April 1973
What? Klodwig BMW Eigenbau Heck (Formula 2)
Where? Nűrburgring
When? 8 August 1952, XV Großer Preis von Deutschland
Why? When racing emerged in the aftermath of the Second World War, the new governing body, the Federation Internationale Automobile (FIA) – successor to the pre-war Association Internationale des Automobile Clubs Reconnu (AIACR), created two new formulae for racing cars, Formula A and Formula B. Formula A was to take effect with the 1947 season. It allowed supercharged engines with displacements of up to 1500cc and normally aspired engines were allowed displacements up to 4500cc. It was a essentially a combining of the pre-war Grand Grix and voiturette formulae based on what was reasonably available. There were no weight restrictions or few other restrictions for that matter. The formula was soon usually referred to as “Formula One,” and the name stuck, even the FIA calling it that by the end of 1949.

The other formula, better known as Formula Two rather than Formula B, came into effect on New Year’s Day 1948. The new voiturette formula allowed for supercharged engines of up to 500cc or normally aspired engines of up to 2000cc displacement. Again, no weight limitations and other restrictions. The first race for the formula was run at Perpignan, France, on 25 April 1948. Consisting of two heats and a final, the victor was Maurice Trintignant driving an Equipe Gordini-entered Gordini 11 (chassis no. 0003GC) Simca.

In 1949, racing was still reviving in Germany, or the Germanies, if you will. Still excluded from participation in international racing, the Germans began organizing events among themselves, and selected F2 as the national formula. The first F2 race organized by the Germans after the War was at the Hockenheimring, just outside Heidelburg. The 10-lap “II Maipokalrennen” was won by Toni Ulmen in a Veritas powered by a BMW 328 engine. He was followed across the line by Alex von Falkenhausen in his AFM (Alex von Falkenhausen Motorenbau) BMW 328, with Fritz Riess third, in an HH 47 (Hermann Holbein), and fourth was the BMW 328 of Roland Mall.

From 1949 to 1954, there were 54 F2 races in the Germanies that I have been able to find something on. The split was almost half and half East and West. Indeed, the formula was the basis for national championships in both the Eastern and Western Zones. Both series were heavily dependent on the BMW 328 as the source for engines and chassis.

Without the BMW 328, there would have been F2 racing in the German Zones, but its form would have been radically different. The BMW 328’s greatest virtue was it availability. The six-cylinder engine’s combination of relatively small bore and long stroke perhaps kept the revs down, but gave adequate torque and good reliability, very important considerations at a time when finding even basic commodities could be a challenge.

The chassis was likewise a boon to racers. Rugged and easy to work with, as well as available, the 328 chassis was capable of being modified to suit the whims of a long list of enterprising racers.

Which brings us to the subject at hand, Her Ernst Klodwig and his delightful 328-based machine. Most references will refer to it as a BMW “Eigenbau.” I am now convinced that many think that an “Eigenbau” was a BMW model of the 328 used for racing. It is simply German for “Special,” being translated fairly literally as either “self-built” or “home-built.”

Indeed, the car depicted could be referred to as the Klodwig BMW Eigenbau Heck. With “Heck” meaning “tail,” the word “Heck” in this case refers to the rear-mounted BMW 328 engine. Although unusual, the Klodwig Heck was not unique. In 1949, Helmut Polensky devised an interesting BMW Eigenbau, the Monopol. It was a single-seat, rear-engined machine; and, it was quite notable for enlivening up race meetings. In June 1949, it won at Schotten and had placings at Nurnberg and Kőln.

Herr Klodwig makes his first appearance, to my knowledge using my sketchy records, on 1 October 1950, at Dessau in the Dessaurundenstrecken-Rennen, the final round in the East German Championship series. The race was won by West German Willy Heeks in an AFM (chassis no. 2), with the 47-year old Klodwig second in his BMW Eigenbau entered by BSG Motor. Although often specifically mentioned, Klodwig was a citizen of East Germany.

In 1951, Klodwig and his BMW Eigenbau were very active in the East German series. Usually entered in the Eastern Zone races by BSG Motor and in the West under his own name, here is a quick rundown for Klodwig in 1951. His racing number in the East was ‘102.’
 Halle-Saale-Scheife, 22 April – 2nd
 Leipzig Stadtpark, 20 May – 3rd
 Dresden-Hellerau, 17 June – 2nd
 Halle-Saale-Scheife, 2 September – 3rd
 Sachsenring, 30 September – 4th

In addition, Klodwig made one appearance in the West that season, at the VII Internationales AVUSrennen on 1 July. Racing with the number ‘131’ on the Eigenbau, the BSG Motor entry retired after 12 laps of the 25 lap race. This is the first mention that referes to the Klodwig Eigenbau as the “BMW Heck.”

In 1952, Klodwig continued to compete in the East German series. Retaining race number ‘102’ from the previous season, BSG Motor continued as the entrant as usual. Here is how the season went for Klodwig:
 Rostock-Osthafen, 20 April – 4th
 Bernau, 4 May – 3rd
 Leipzig Stadtpark, 2 June – 2nd
 Sachsenring, 7 September – 3rd

Ernst Klodwig placed second in the 1952 Meisterschalf Deutechen Demokratisches Republik (DDR) with 10 points. However, one of the leading lights of East German racing, Paul Greifzu, was killed in an accident during practice for the round at Dessau (and not Dresden as Doug Nye states). Along with Edgar Barth, Greifzu was a star in East Germany. His death took some of the vitality out of East German motor racing. It deprived Barth of a great rival and we are left to wonder what might have been. One question is whether he would have followed Barth to the West and a ride with one of the Western teams.

Klodwig and his BMW Eigenbau Heck competed twice in the Wast during 1952. The first race was the XV Großer Preis von Deutschland at the 22.810km Nűrburgring. Klodwig qualified 29th and eventually finished 14 of the 18 laps in a time of 3 hr 17 min 40.9 sec, 12th on the road, but unclassified.

In 1952, F1 collapsed forcing the race organizers to use F2 instead. The withdrawal of Alfa Romeo, BRM’s oblivion to the need for a commitment to the Championship (it conducted training and testing rather than compete at the Torino race), the threatened boycott by Ferrari, and a genuine fear of greatly reduced grids (and gate receipts) led the organizers to embrace the formula, which was booming.

The entry list, by race number, and grid of the 1952 Großer Preis von Deutschland is an “ants in amber” view of German F2 racing:
 110, Marcel Balsa, BMW Special – a French entry
 121, Fritz Riess, Veritas Renn Sport (RS)
 122, Theo Helfrich, Veritas RS
 123, Willy Heeks, AFM (chassis no. 8)
 124, Helmut Niedermayr, AFM (chassis no. 6)
 125, Toni Ulmen, Veritas Meteor
 126, Adolf Brudes, Veritas RS
 127, Paul Pietsch, Veritas Meteor entered by Motor-Presse-Verlag
 128, Hans Klenk, Veritas Meteor
 129, Josef Peters, Veritas RS
 130, Bernhard Nacke, BMW Eigenbau
 131, Ludwig Fischer, AFM (chassis no.1), did not start
 133, Willi Krakau, AFM (chassis no. 7), did not start
 134, Harry Merkel, BME Eigenbau entered by Willi Krakau, did not start
 136, Rudolf Krause, Greifzu BMW Eigenbau

With the exception of the Veritas of Pietsch and Klenk, all the cars used the BMW 328.

The other race in the What that Klodwig competed in that year was the VIII Internationales AVUSrennen on 28 September. In his “BMW Heck,” Klodwig finished seventh.

In 1953, Klodwig once again competed on the East German Championship, entered by BSG Motor. His record for 1953:
 Chemitz/Karl-Marx-Stadt, 3 May – race number ‘108,’ retired
 Dessau, 7 June – race number ‘111,’ Veritas Meteor; entered and shown on the grid, but no record of his race finish available.
 Halle-Saale-Schleife, 5 July – 5th
 Sachsenring, 23 August – race number ‘111,’ 5th

Klodwig was fourth in the 1953 Meisterschaft DDR with nine points.

In 1953, as usual, Klodwig entered the IX Internationales AVUSrennen held on 12 July. In his “BMW Eigenbau,” Klodwig finished seventh in the race. In the XVI Großer Preis von Deutschland on 2 August, Klodwig qualified 32nd with a time of 12 min 24.6 sec and then finished the race in 17th, three laps arrears of the winner, Giuseppe “Nino” Farina. Most accounts have Klodwig listed as Not Classified in the race.

The DDR continued to use F2 as its national formula into 1954. The last F2 race for the DDR Championship was held at Bernau on 26 September 1954. As far as I can determine, did not enter any races in the 1954 series. My last entry for Ernst Klodwig and his BMW Eigenbau is at the Sachsenring on 23 August 1953. In fact, after that I have nothing for Herr Klodwig, but at 50 years old that shouldn’t a great shock. The entire story of German F2 racing from 1949 to 1954 is fascinating and deserves it own story some day.

And, I used to have much, much more on this topic....

[Prostfan]

Thanks, Don. Do you know something about the "Veritas" cars?

[Wolf]

Prostfan- I'm no Don, but I can give You reader's digest from Hodges...;)

[Vitesse2]

The definitive history of Veritas has never been written and probably never will - ironic, as "veritas" is Latin for "truth" ...

[Wolf]

Maybe it will be more of in vino veritas stories... BTW, Hodges mentiones French cars being built from exported 'kits'- any idea what became of them? Were they any success?

[Vitesse2]

Any early 50s French sports car with a BMW engine was probably a Veritas - "Alexander Orley" was one owner that I know of: FEV??

[David McKinney]

Chaboud had one

[Vitesse2]

Roger Laurent, Johnny Claes and others associated with Ecurie Belge ran Veritas cars from 1949.

A couple of French specials with BMW engines were the OBM and the Duval - possibly these and others were actually Veritas.

Anthony Baring, Kenneth Hutchinson, Dennis Poore all drove a Veritas in British Formula B and Voiturette events in 1949. Anyone know more about that car?

[bobbo]

As I mentioned earlier, Herr Klodwig's car looks a lot like the old Auto Union. Does any one have any information about him? What did he do pre-War?

I would also like to second the request for more on the AFM and Veritas cars and the assorted engines in them. This seems to be a really interesting period of racing history that falls into the same category of disinterest as the 1946 - 1949 period.

Bobbo

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by Vitesse2
Anthony Baring, Kenneth Hutchinson, Dennis Poore all drove a Veritas in British Formula B and Voiturette events in 1949. Anyone know more about that car?

I believe it was owned by Hutchison, and built on s 328 chassis. It came up for auction in Monaco in 2000.

[Wolf]

Bobbo- first Veritas' had BMW 328 engine, and latter ones Heinkel made engines following broad lines of 328 (so says Hodges), yet they were cast in alloy and dimensions 75 x 75 mm, totaling 1988cc. Using Solex carburettors and methanol fuel, in race trim they delivered 140BHP. Veritas also produced 750cc sports car using Panhard parts.

[Michael Müller]

Numerous Veritas links on one single page
http://www.amwmag.co...itas_world.html

[karlcars]

Concerning Veritas, BMW published an excellent book on the BMW 328 which also has in-depth information on Veritas and other derivatives of the BMW six. It covers the East German derivatives well also. The reason that I'm aware of it is that I translated it into English. I can't recommend this book too highly (nothing to do with the translation!). It also gets into Bristol etc.

That's not to say that it wouldn't be a good idea to package the history of these post-war German racers more comprehensively.

[uechtel]

Hello!

Despite watching this forum quite for a while now I have not done too much posting here up to now. But perhaps this thread is good for a serious start, as it is about my most favourite epoch.

I have already done some research about German early post war racing, hoping to uncover some of its mysteries. And I think I already got quite far. But of course most information is indeed very sketchy and there are still so many gaps in my knowledge, so I am looking for any information about the subject, that I can get. So there is certainly no better place to ask than here in this forum.

Karlcars: Can you please give me some more information about that book: exact title, author, prize? And where can I buy it? They seem not to sell it at amazon.

And to deliver some contribution to this thread, perhaps in order to revive it a little bit, here some remarks and questions to the entry list of the 1952 German GP as posted by Don Capps:

(my remarks in italics)

 110, Marcel Balsa, BMW Special – a French entry
 121, Fritz Riess, Veritas Renn Sport (RS)
 122, Theo Helfrich, Veritas RS
 123, Willy Heeks, AFM (chassis no. 8)
 124, Helmut Niedermayr, AFM (chassis no. 6)
Don, that is interesting, where do you have that chassis number information from? I always guessed, that this would be no. 6 but have not found any proof yet!
 125, Toni Ulmen, Veritas Meteor
according to the picture below he used a standard Veritas RS for this race. The confusion most probably comes from him having converted a Veritas RS sports car into an open wheeler back in 1950. For example he used this car for the 1952 International Trophy at Silverstone. Very frequently this car was mismatched with a Meteor. But for the time of the 1952 German Grand Prix he seems to have switched back to the standard Veritas RS and used the open-wheeler with wings and lights attached in sports car events
 126, Adolf Brudes, Veritas RS
 127, Paul Pietsch, Veritas Meteor entered by Motor-Presse-Verlag
 128, Hans Klenk, Veritas Meteor
 129, Josef Peters, Veritas RS
 130, Bernhard Nacke, BMW Eigenbau
in fact this is the Holbein HH48, which was the very first German Formula 2 car when it appeard in 1948, driven by Hermann Holbein
 131, Ludwig Fischer, AFM (chassis no.1), did not start
 133, Willi Krakau, AFM (chassis no. 7), did not start
Again I am again curious about the chassis number. According to my sources this should have been the car previously used by Riess, so rather chassis no. 3 than no. 7?
 134, Harry Merkel, BME Eigenbau entered by Willi Krakau, did not start
car built and raced by Krakau himself in 1948 / 49
 136, Rudolf Krause, Greifzu BMW Eigenbau
In his autobiography Krause himself writes that in 1952 he still used his old Reif-BMW and switched to the Greifzu-BMW only after Halle-Saale-Schleife in 1953, again proofed by picture below

Here the pictures:



(Claes in the HWM-Alta followed by Ulmen in his Veritas RS)


and



(Rudi Krause in the Reif-BMW)

and finally



Karl-Günther Bechem (entered as "Bernhard Nacke"), clearly the Holbein HH 48-BMW


The "Reif" remains one of my not-yet resolved mysteries: In 1949 / 50 Helmut Niedermayr also used a car with this name. So are there some connections between these two cars? Krause tells, that he built his car from scratch, using parts of his old BMW 328.

Concerning Ulmen I also still have problems to sort out his cars. At some time in 1950 he raced an open wheeled single seater (central driver position), which was converted from a Veritas RS sports car. What happened to this car in 1951 / 52? Was it converted again into something else? In 1952 he appeared with an open-wheeled two-seater (offside driver position) at Silverstone. This car today is called the "Grossmutter", indicating, that it was perhaps the very first Veritas, that was ever built? Parallel to that Ulmen always had a standard Veritas RS to his avail, in which he appeared for sports car and high-speed events all from 1948 well into 1952. So can anybody give me some additional information about Ulmen´s cars?


Uechtel

[uechtel]

How does it work to post pictures here???

[Felix Muelas]

uechtel,

You have to have the pictures somewhere in the net, not only in your computer. If you do not have a web space to store them, and whilst you organize that, send me the pictures via email and I´ll post them for you.

Un abrazo

Felix Muelas
fmuelas@arrakis.es

[ensign14]

Uechtel, I have enjoyed your contributions to 8W, so thank you for posting here. I am looking forward to your contributions because the whole post-war German F2 scene is so confusing and a few pictures would clarify things enormously!

Don Capps has mentioned he did a lot of work on this, but it all disappeared in a computer disaster...

[Felix Muelas]

Here the pictures:



(Claes in the HWM-Alta followed by Ulmen in his Veritas RS)

and



(Rudi Krause in the Reif-BMW)

and finally


Karl-Günther Bechem (entered as "Bernhard Nacke"), clearly the Holbein HH 48-BMW

[Don Capps]

Uechtel,

I will make an attempt to find the remains of my notes and figure out from where I got some of the chassis numbers from and perhaps why some of my "observations" were off-base. I had really just rolling good when my disaster struck and was still sorting out lots of the information. I do know that the more I looked, the more questions I had; and that many of the things that seemed to be accepted perhaps weren't what they were thought to be.

I really wish I had time to pick up the pieces again, but if you are on the case then it is in very good hands.

[Vitesse2]

Don/Uechtel: the AFM 6 identification appears to come from or via Sheldon. The 1952 German GP is the only race Sheldon shows this car in ... make of that what you will!

[fines]

Just a few notes:

1) Niedermayr definitely drove an AFM at the Nürburgring (presumably chassis 3, or 50/1, the Krakau car). He also used it in practice for the Grenzlandring Rennen, but after its rear axle failed he started and had his famous accident on a Veritas!

2) Toni Ulmen used two Veritas RS in F2, the "Spezial" (meaning Special, who would've thought!), and the "Großmutter" (Grandma). Both were rebodied, the "Spezial" as a central-seat monoposto. It was presumably written off after a crash at Naples (Jun 24, 1951).

3) The Krakau Special: there were possibly two different cars, but probably just one that was rebodied in the winter of '49/50. It looked quite different!

4) The Balsa Speciale used a Gordini monposto chassis, not sure which one. I always meant to investigate into this subject, but haven't so far!

[Michael Müller]

Here is Toni Ulmen in his Special at Erlen in 1950 (in front Villoresi with the works 166).



If I remember right, I received this photo from Fines some time ago.

[uechtel]

Hello!

online again...

fines, thank you for your information, especially about Ulmen´s Veritas Spezial. It is a pity, that I have hardly any information about his cars during the 1951 season, not even a single picture.

To Niedermayr: Yes, I think it´s true, he raced an AFM here. But how do you know, that this is the former Riess car? According to Schumann´s wonderful book "Motorsport in Deutschland 1945-1955", page 184 (regarding your remarks can I hope that you have the book in your library, too?), Riess sold AFM-3 (or AFM 50-1 as you numbered it) to Krakau, which makes sense, as both formed a "Renngemeinschaft" (racing team) in 1952. In my records Krakau appears only twice in an AFM, the Eifelrennen and the German Grand Prix, both at the Nuerburgring in 1952. So if Krakau raced AFM-3 there, Niedermayr must have used another car.

In addition to that Schumann tells, that Krakau sold the car after a few races to Niedermayr, "who had already PREVIOUSLY driven an AFM"! Earlier in the book (page 104) Schumann also names some of the initial customers of AFM, who ordered a car of the 1950 series, among them Riess and Niedermayr. My conclusion: Niedermayr owned a different car, perhaps no. 6 or no. 7, which he raced during 1952, before buying the ex-Riess no. 3 from Krakau.

Ok, I must state, that this is only a theory, no real proof, but for me this seems to fit very well into the records. Of course I would be glad, if you could convince me, that I am wrong with this by some real "hard" facts...

So perhaps to sort them out here is my "personal" AFM chassis log (Formula 2 cars only). Questionmarks wherever I am not sure about:

type 1949 / spaceframe chassis

AFM 49-1
works car, debut Hockenheim 1949, driven by von Falkenhausen
raced by Stuck Monza 1949 to Bern 1950 (von Falkenhausen at Nuremberg ´49)
raced by von Brauchitsch Solitude and German GP 1950
sold to Ludwig Fischer, probably for 1951 (or retained by von Falkenhausen until Munich ´51?)
completely destroyed by Fischer (perhaps accident 1951 Eifelrennen?)

AFM 49-2
ordered by Emil Vorster in 1949,
originally fitted with supercharged 750 cc engine ("Kleinstrennwagen")
debut Hockenheim 1949 (Vorster)
converted to Formula 2 car
raced by Lang Solitude 1949
sold to Heeks for 1950
used as spare parts source for AFM 50-8 (in 1951 or already during 1950?)


type 1950 / production series of tube section chassis

AFM 50-3
ordered by Riess; debut Berne 1950
also raced by Krakau in 1952
later sold to Niedermayr (Niedermayr´s second AFM) in 1953
also used by Fitzau German GP 1953

AFM 50-4 ordered by Stuck, fitted with Kuechen V8 engine; debut Freiburg 1950
fitted with Bristol engine for 1953

AFM 50-5 ordered by Gomman, debut Eifelrennen 1950
severely damaged Grenzlandring 1950;
sold to Bechem for 1951, rebuilt and converted into sports car
1952 converted to 1.5 l engine capacity
reconverted to 2 litre capacity in 1953

AFM 50-6?
perhaps raced by von Falkenhausen Marseille and Munich 1951?
sold to Niedermayr?
raced by Niedermayr 1952 German GP to Grenzlandring?

AFM 50-7?

AFM 50-8 built for Heeks, using spare parts of AFM 49-2
debut?
raced by Blees? 1953 Eifelrennen to 1954 Dresden?

In 1953 / 54 also Helfrich and Binner appear in AFMs, as does Fischer, perhaps not in no. 1, but in a different car. Of all of them I have not managed to get any chassis information yet.

Perhaps this is a good moment to try out my just discovered facilities of my own internet-page at aol, who seem to allow me at least one picture per time...

http://hometown.aol....page/sport.html

The remains of Niedermayr´s car after the Grenzlandring crash. Very horrible tragedy indeed.

[uechtel]

just discovered a picture of Mr. Klodwig himself in an old East German magazine. So I have replaced the Niedermayr picture with it here on this page:

http://hometown.aol....page/sport.html


karlcars: Sorry that you not have answered to my question yet, I still would like to get some information about the BMW 328 book that you mentioned.

[dmj]

This used to be thread with interesting Veritas links, so here is another:
http://www.auto-salo...tas_RS_1953.htm
I fell in love with this car but I believe it would cost me a dollar or two more than I should allow myself to spend. BTW, car is from some angles strikingly similar to Toyota 2000 GT - was count Goertz involved in Veritas design or he just later "borrowed" it?
A nice period picture of Veritas factory (showroom?), too...

[dmj]

Another great looking Veritas for sale, this one in UK, on this site:
http://www.coys.co.uk/
This one has a price, too, a little bit on high side. Anyway, I want that coupe from German site...

[Michael Müller]

Below some pictures of the Greifzu-BMW-Spezial. First one from 1950, the other taken at Dessau in 1950 shortly before his fatal accident. Watch the Kyrillan road board ...!

[Doug Nye]

The umpteenth fascinating thread on TNF - looking for something else I have just come across this pic of Klodwig's Heckmotor Eigenbau in the paddock garages at the Nurburgring. I have a vague recollection of somebody telling me that Klodwig was a pleasant little balding chap who ran a tobacconists' shop in Berlin - would this be correct?



DCN

[Barry Lake]

Michael

You mention Greifzu's fatal accident at Dessau. Do you have a date for this?

I have only "1952".

Great to see Uechtel is researching post-war German F2 - I thought that bit of history might have gone forever with Don's computer crash.

I hope you're backing up regularly, Uechtel.

[Vitesse2]

Barry: Greifzu was killed in practice for the Dessau race which took place on May 11th 1952. So that should narrow it down a bit!

[ensign14]

On Klodwig's special there appears to be a badge just above the radiator. Does anyone know what it is? BMW?

[Michael Müller]

It was in fact the 10th of May, the day before the race.

[uechtel]

Really nice pictures! Haven´t seen those before!

And Barry, thank you for your inspiring words. In fact I am just about to finish the article about the East German specials, but I have to admit that I do not know too much about Klodwig´s biography prior to 1952.

Altogether there are still many gaps in my knowledge about the East German scene, as I have only sources available of 1953 and later. So the text is hopefully an opportunity to get in contact with people who can tell me something I do not know yet and to correct me where I made errors.

As I failed to get my hands on some issues of the East German magazine "Illustrierter Motorsport" from 1951/52 I would also be very pleased if somebody could quote some of the race reports and perhaps scan some of the pictures there. My mail address is uechtel@gmx.de .

Writing this I would be glad if I got help on this subject, too:

http://www.atlasf1.c...&threadid=39863

Uechtel

[bobbo]

I guess this should be a question for Doug Nye . . .

Has there ever been a book covering the assorted BMW specials and (non-factory) variants?? I'm discovering that there must be hundreds of them!

Bobbo

[ensign14]

Uechtel's getting there with his 8W specials! Great work!