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Laszlo Hartmann


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#1 Geza Sury

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Posted 17 January 2002 - 09:17

With this post I'm getting rid of the 'New member' status, so it's a perfect time to start a new thread! (I had no luck with my very first thread, please check it out here!)

This thread is more serious. I'm trying to find information about Hungary's second Grand Prix driver, Laszlo Hartmann. (The first was obviously Ferenc Szisz!) I wrote a short biography of my fellow countyman, you can read it here. This is virtually everything I know about this man! Do TNF members know more about Laszlo Hartmann? In which races did he participate? Which cars did he drive? Any info would be highly appriciated!

BTW, I have to explain something. In Hungary, we use our names in a different order than in most countries. We write our family name before our given name(s). So Laszlo Hartmann's name is actually Hartmann Laszlo, or to be precise Hartmann László. (I hope you see the right characters!) it's the same with my name, anyone could see it, who had received an E-mail from me!

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#2 Rob G

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Posted 17 January 2002 - 14:27

Well, I was going to refer you to that page, but since you were the one who wrote it, that would be rather pointless now wouldn't it? :lol:

#3 David McKinney

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Posted 17 January 2002 - 17:17

1930
In Bugatti 35B:
1st sportscar race St Raphael 2/3
1st in class (3rd overall) Zbraslav-Jiloviste hillclimb 11/5
2nd-FTD Budapest km
unplaced Klausen hillclimb 10/8
accident Svab hillclimb
5th-FTD Schottwien hc
2nd in European Mountain Championship
1931
In Bugatti 35B:
2nd in class (3ov pts) Euro Champ Zbraslav hillclimb 31/5
5th Avusrennen 2/8
2nd in class Freiburg hillclimb
1st in class Tatra hillclimb
was also successful in Hungary with this car and a Bugatti 37A
1932
In Bugatti 37A
2nd Eifelrennen voiturette
1st Lwow voiturette race 19/6
2nd 1500 class (6th overall) German Grand Prix 17/7
3rd in class Gaisberg hillclimb
3rd in class Riesengebirge hillclimb
4th in class Hohenstein hillclimb
4th 1500 voiturette race Brno -/9
1933
Raced Bugatti 35B and 37A sports:
8th Monaco Grand Prix 23/4 (35B)
9th Tripoli GP 7/5 (35B)
8th Marseilles GP Miramas 27/8 (35B)
4th in class Gaisberg hillclimb (35B)
1st in class Würgau hillclimb (37A)
3rd in class Semmering hillclimb 24/9 (35B)
FTD Mt Gugger hillclimb (35B)
1st in class Mt Gugger hillclimb (37A sports)
1934
In Bugatti 35B:
7th Eifelrennen 3/6
7th German Grand Prix 15/7
1st sportscar Freiburg hillclimb
4th sportscar Klausen hillclimb
DNF Swiss Grand Prix 16/8
1st in class ?? hillclimb (Hungary)
1935
Raced Maserati 8CM and Bugatti 35B sports:
7th Tunis GP 6/5 (Maserati)
4th GP des Frontieres 9/5 (Maserati)
8th Marne GP Rheims 7/7 (Maserati)
DNF German Grand Prix 28/7 (Maserati)
3rd Comminges GP 4/8 - 4th in heat (Maserati)
DNF Swiss Grand Prix 25/8 - crashed (Maserati)
3cl Freiburg hillclimb 1/9 (Bugatti)
6th Masaryk GP 29/9 (Maserati)
FTD Gyon km (Maserati)
1cl Mount Gugger hillclimb (Maserati)
1st sportscar (FTD) Mount Gugger hillclimb (Bugatti)
1st sportscar Dreihotter hillclimb (Bugatti)
FTD Dobogokoe hillclimb (Bugatti) possibly another name for one of the above?
1936
Raced Maseratis:
DNF Swedish Winter GP Lake Rämen 23/2
DNS Monaco Grand Prix 13/4 (Scuderia Torino V8)
6th Eifelrennen voit 14/6 (Torino 6CM)
7th Hungarian GP 19/6
6th Part I/DNS Part II Albi voiturette GP 12/7 (6CM)
4th Coppa Ciano Vetturette 26/7 (6CM)
1937
In Maseratis:
unplaced Tripoli GP 9/5
6th Avusrennen 30/5 - 4 heat
8th Milan race 20/6
DNF German Grand Prix 25/7 (4C-2500)
1st 3-litre class hillclimb Freiburg 1/8
DNF Monaco Grand Prix 8/8 (8CM)
4th heat Preis von Bern voit race 22/8 (4CM)
10th Swiss Grand Prix 22/8
3rd voiturette race Brno 26/9 (4CM)
7th Masaryk GP 26/9
1938
In Maserati 4CM:
fatal accident Tripoli GP 15/5

#4 fines

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Posted 17 January 2002 - 17:18

Huuh, thanks David! I was just going to decide if I was going to do the stats... :drunk: :kiss: :lol:

#5 ry6

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Posted 17 January 2002 - 18:16

Laslo came to race in South Africa in the late 1930's.
His car was a Maserati.
He was described in the program as the Hungarian Champion.
I will check my records and see how he performed but please wait until next week.

#6 anjakub

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Posted 17 January 2002 - 18:19

Hartmann László (Magyar) in Poland

1931
Wyscig Tatrzanski (Tatra Race) 16/8
4th place (1st in class D 2000-3000 ccm) Bugatti 35B
1932
Lwow Grand Prix 12/6 (not 19/6)
3rd place (1st in voiturette class) Bugatti 37A
1933
Lwow Grand Prix 11/6
DNS after a crash in practice (10/6) Bugatti 35B

#7 Geza Sury

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Posted 17 January 2002 - 20:03

Wow David, this is great! This is much much more than I expected! I would also like to thank the other guys for helping my research! You've done a brilliant job, guys!

Hartmann László (Magyar) in Poland



Actually the word 'Magyar' means 'Hungarian' in Hungarian...

#8 Marcor

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Posted 18 January 2002 - 00:40

Hartmann took part in the 1928 Mont Gugger Hillclimb race in the Touring class (5 L) with an Hupmobile and also the 1929 Monte Carlo Rally.

About the 1933 Marseille race, I've got him in 7th position (source, the book "Le GP de Provence et de Marseille"), not 8th, and Maurice Louche, the author of the book, said his car was a Bugatti 51. And another book also indicates that he was driving a Tipo 51 at Monaco (1933).

#9 FEV

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Posted 18 January 2002 - 01:27

Laslo came to race in South Africa in the late 1930's.


I have him a DNF at the South African Grand Prix in East London on 1/01/38 and at the Cape Town Grosvenor GP on 15/01/38, both time with his 6CM.

#10 Marcor

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Posted 18 January 2002 - 01:36

he was also at that race: Rand GP (Lord Howe, Johannsburg), on 16 December 1937, and he did not finish...

#11 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 18 January 2002 - 04:19

Originally posted by David McKinney
1930
In Bugatti 35B:
1st sportscar race St Raphael 2/3
1st in class (3rd overall) Zbraslav-Jiloviste hillclimb 11/5
2nd-FTD Budapest km
unplaced Klausen hillclimb 10/8
accident Svab hillclimb
5th-FTD Schottwien hc
2nd in European Mountain Championship.....

David,
1930, Aug 10, Klausen Rennen he was sixth in racing cars and third in 2000-3000 ccm class.
1930, Aug 17, Freiburg-Schauinsland he was eighth in racing cars and fifth in 2000-8000 ccm class.
1930, Sep 14, Semmering he was third in racing cars and first in 2000-3000 ccm class, fifth overall.
1930, Sep 29, Feleac Race he came second in racing class.

Your "5th-FTD Schottwien hc" was the race at the Semmering.

#12 David McKinney

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Posted 18 January 2002 - 06:47

Thanks very much for that Hans, especiallay the Schottwien/Semmering connection

Marcor,
Your corrections are probably right. My records were compiled a long time ago

#13 Rob29

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Posted 18 January 2002 - 08:36

Originally posted by Geza Sury




Actually the word 'Magyar' means 'Hungarian' in Hungarian...

Yes,I learned that as a schoolboy collecting postage stamps! Have always wondered why the Budapest circuit is not called the Magyarring, rather than its current name which sounds like there are no catering facilities..

#14 Geza Sury

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Posted 21 January 2002 - 14:44

Once again, thanks everybody for the contributions!

Originally posted by Rob29
Have always wondered why the Budapest circuit is not called the Magyarring

The word 'Magyarring' would sound pretty strange in Hungarian, because ring is of course not a Hungarian word. Hungaroring seems to be a logical solution as IIRC both 'Hungary and 'ring' come from latin.

Originally posted by Rob29
which sounds like there are no catering facilities..

I'm a bit a puzzled... Can you explain why?

#15 Vitesse2

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Posted 21 January 2002 - 14:55

English word play Geza - Hungary/hungry :)

#16 ry6

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Posted 21 January 2002 - 19:32

1. Summary

Hartmann came to South Africa for the
following races :

1937 Rand Grand Prix – 16 December 1937
1938 SAGP – 1 January 1938
1938 Grosvenor GP – 15 January 1938

A report from an old newspaper “ The Hungarian Champion, Laslo Hartmann had brought a 6CM Maserati and in addition a one-off 2.5 litre Maserati which he lent to Sonny du Toit to drive the Rand GP”

I cannot find how he performed in these races as he is not mentioned in any of the results.


2. The January 1938 issue of Motor Sport (page 34) report on the SAGP

“The Hungarian, Hartmann, suffered consistent tyre trouble with his 1500 cc Maserati. Du Toit, the South African who was driving Hartmann’s other entry, the big 2.9 litre Maserati, crashed with great effect.”


3. From the programme of the 1938 Grosvenor Grand Prix, Cape Town, Africa

15 January 1938

No. 22 Laszlo Hartmann

Entry : 1500 cc Maserati Racing Car (Monoposto – 1937)

Record

1935 Grand Prix Frontiers 1st
Grand Prix Feleac 1st
1937 Grand Prix Avus 1st 300 ccm
Grand Prix Suisses 1st
Hillclimbing Reyburg 1st

Notes on this race -

This event was a handicap race and Hartmann was one of a group – WG Everitt (Maserati), Earl Howe (ERA), Raymond Mays (ERA), Taruffi, Lurani, L Villoresi, and E Sienna (1500 Maseratis) which were handicapped to leave 25 minutes after the “limit” man and 2 min 32 secs before the “scratch” man.

Earl Howe won the event, but from the lap charts it does not appear that Hartmann completed the first lap.

The caption of a photo of the start in an old magazine mentions that he is following Everitt, Villoresi and Sienna.

An old report mentions “Hartman decided to drive his 2.5 litre car after the 1500 cc car gave trouble in practice.”

#17 Geza Sury

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Posted 22 January 2002 - 10:38

Originally posted by Vitesse2
English word play Geza - Hungary/hungry :)

Yeah, I see...


Thanks for your extensive research, ry6!

Another important thing popped into my mind. It was László Hartmann, who collided with Giuseppe Farina at the 1938 Grand Premio d'Tripoli. This is a quote from Leif Snellmann's excellent website:

Hartmann with his Maserati 4CM cut the corner in front of Farina's Tipo 312 Alfa. The two cars collided at high speed and overturned with the wrecks sliding upside down along the track only leaving a little room in the middle for the other cars. Caracciola, coming up behind, just managed to squeeze past. Lang came to the place just as he was lapping a Voiturette car and had to stand on the brakes to hinder a new crash. Farina survived the crash without any major injuries but Hartmann broke his back and died the following day.


It's just one version of the incident. In this thread Marcor posted the following:

The official version put out at the end of the race spoke of an impact between the 2 cars caused by a gust of wind, and a couple of fracture ribs for the Hungarian. But an other version, supplied by a young lieutenant in the medical corps at the time and medical officer in charge at n°4 Tower. According to him, it would appear that Hartmann was not fast enough getting out the way and that Farina literally swept him off the track. It was he, his Red Cross team of volunteers, who reached Hartmann with his broken spine, and administered the first aid required in order to transport him to hospital, together with the other two less serious victims(a soldier and a spectator).
Farina came out of the accident virtually unscathed except for a few scratches. But Hartmann, admitted to hospital as an emergency case, died during the night.

(Grand Prix Tripoli - V. Moretti)

Which version is true? Any comments?

#18 Geza Sury

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Posted 24 January 2002 - 07:17

Here's a nice shot about Hartmann and his Maserarti in his garage. If you're wondering what the words in the background 'Tilos a dohanyzas' mean, well it only means 'No smoking.'

Posted Image

#19 fines

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Posted 24 January 2002 - 20:05

Thanks for the pic, Geza (or should I say Sury? :confused: )! I don't recall having seen a pic of Hartmann previously!

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#20 Geza Sury

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Posted 01 February 2002 - 08:43

Originally posted by fines
Thanks for the pic, Geza (or should I say Sury? :confused: )! I don't recall having seen a pic of Hartmann previously!


My original name is Surányi Géza, (Family name: Surányi, surname: Géza), Geza Sury is a kind of a nickname.

I forgot to mention that 'László' is a common surname in Hungary. This name had caught the attention of two-time Hungarian GP winner Nelson Piquet, who decided to name one of his sons László! This comes form the slavic name 'Vladislav' which originally means 'power' and 'glory'.

#21 Rob G

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Posted 01 February 2002 - 14:51

Actually, a surname is a family name. I take it Géza is your given name then?

#22 Geza Sury

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Posted 01 February 2002 - 18:29

Uh, I mixed things up a bit... I'm always in trouble with this! Yeah, Géza is my given name...

#23 Geza Sury

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Posted 28 July 2003 - 20:15

I'm currently reading Chris Nixon's magnificent book "Racing The Silver Arrows". (If you don't have it, get it as quickly as you can!) I guess now I fully understood the meaning of the word "unputdownable" :cool: There are reproduced race reports in it taken from the Motor and the Autocar. On page 140, there's an article describing the 1936 German Grand Prix:

Now the news comes through of Chiron. He crashed badly, striving to regain the lost Mercedes' fortunes. At the Antoniousbuche bridge, at the end of the where the cars of travelling at 160 m.p.h., Chiron has left the road! The car has gone down a steep enbankment, much as Hartmann did last year with his Bugatti.

Does anyone know what happened exactly with Hartmann in 1935?

#24 Vitesse2

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Posted 28 July 2003 - 21:20

AHA! Must be a reference to the Eifelrennen, which was his last race in his T51 - three weeks later he had his Maserati. Sheldon has no DNF details for him, Leif has 6 laps, but no reason - looks like "crash" might be a good bet!

#25 Leif Snellman

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Posted 12 August 2003 - 18:14

I wonder whose Bugatti is almost hit by Rosemeyer in the picture sequence on page 62 in Kirchberg's book. Taruffi, Hartmann or Froy?

#26 GIGLEUX

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Posted 12 August 2003 - 22:29

Leif, of what book of Kirchberg are you talking about? The only one I know and have is:
- Auto-Union Grand Prix report 1934-1939 Motor Buch Verlag Stuttgart published in1982
ISBN 3 - 87 943 - 876 - 5
and on page 62 is a pict of one of the 3 litre 12 cyl cylinder block. No such a picture in the other pages.
Bugattis: Hartmann T51, Froy T54, Taruffi T59.

#27 Leif Snellman

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Posted 13 August 2003 - 05:57

Curious! I have an East German edition - Transpress VEB verlag für Vehrkehrwesen Berlin 1984.
I have always thought them to be identical. Last page of the chapter "Erfahrungen und Rückschläge". Three pictures on the page, a stopped Bugatti, a near miss by Rosemeyer, a spin by Pietsch. Aren't those pictures there?

#28 GIGLEUX

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Posted 13 August 2003 - 10:05

Leif, thank you for your answer.
It seems our editions are'nt the same. In my book Erfahrungen und Rückschläge begins page 37 and finishes page 62 with the picture I mentionned, caption is: "Einer der beiden Köpfe des 4-Nockenwellen-12-Zylinder-Motors. Gut erkennbar sind die Gleichstrombrennräume." So there are differencies between the two editions.

#29 Mihai

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Posted 03 March 2004 - 15:32

The 1979 yearbook of the Romanian Motor Club celebrated 75 years from its birth and it is mentioning about motorsports in all those years. It says that Romanian racer Iorgu Ghica bought László Hartmann’s 8C-3000 (220 HP @ 5500 rpm) shortly after his fatal accident in Tripoli (15/05/1938). It also says that in 1946, the Romanian Motorsport governing body (FRAM back then) found this baby in Câmpulung-Muscel and returned it to racing. After a long restoration, attempted by a rich driver called Stefan Bodnarenco, Jean Calcianu drove it to success in the following years.

Could our friends from Hungary tell me more about that car (it just vanished from Romania during communism) ? :up:

#30 O Volante

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Posted 08 March 2004 - 02:16

Hi, Mihai
I never posted at forix - but nice to meet you via net :) !

Well, what do you (or anybody else) think: is it possible the Hartmann 8CM came earlier to Romania? In other words, was it the Maser used by Ghica to win the 1936 edition of the Bucarest GP?

And which car was Hartmann's 8CM? As pictures (in the Chimay GP and Cimarosti's Swiss GP book plus the one here in the tread) show, it was a narrow chassis car - where did it come from? The rebuild Pedrazzini or Hamilton car???

Thanks in advance for all comments ...

#31 Mihai

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Posted 08 March 2004 - 15:20

Originally posted by O Volante
I never posted at forix - but nice to meet you via net :) !


I thought you are João from FORIX. Silly me :blush:. O Volante, onde é que vive ?

The 1979 album of the Romanian Motor Club looks backwards to motorsports since its creation, in 1904. Most of the texts are written by the drivers themselves, among them Petre Cristea. And it says that Iorgu Ghica bought the Maser after László’s death. It mentions that it was an 8C-3000 model, built in 1933, straight-eight, supercharged, 750 kg, top speed 240 kph and that it was a monoposto. I don’t know why it doesn’t just say 8CM.

On the other hand, Iorgu Ghica definitely drove a Maser in 1936 to win that year’s Sinaia hillclimb and he also set the national record for the launched km (averaging 193.6 kph) the same year. Though I can’t say what model.


#32 ReWind

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Posted 20 June 2006 - 17:44

I have found some info about László Hartmann on the Internet. Alas, I cannot give you a direct link to the site which should be http://www.szaguldoc...mulacikk&id=312.

But there is a solution: If you type „hartmann laszlo“ „1901“ & „1938“ into Google you should get 7 results. Go to the one with the heading „Formula.hu“ but don’t click on it. Instead click on the cached version and you should get an Hungarian text („Hartmann László rövid élete“) which also contains a copy of Hartmann's racing licence:

Hartmann László rövid élete
Európai hírű pilótánk imádta a versenyzést: hol egy három napos hó-fogságból kiszabadulva (Rügen), hol a rendőrségi fogdából kimentve (Bp., Üllői út) kellett rajthoz állnia, de ő mindig a maximumot nyújtotta, Dél-Afrikától Svédországig, Magyarországtól Monacóig. De mindössze 37 évet élt, 1901. augusztus 17-én született Budapesten és 1938. május 16-án vesztette életét Tripoliban.

A magyar autósportnak nagy szüksége volt a tömzsi kinézetű, mosolygós, borzas hajú Hartmann Lászlóra - vagy ahogyan sokan becézték, „Lacikára, Lácira vagy Grockra” -, hiszen az akkori nemzetközi mezőnyben olyan ászok szerepeltek, mint Borzacchini, Burggaller, Stuck vagy Caracciola. Sikeres versenyzők szempontjából sajnos meglehetősen rosszul álltunk, mert a húszas évek nagymenői, Balázs, Dr. Feledy, Urbach visszavonultak és a fiatal generáció rutinhiánnyal, vagy elöregedő gépekkel küszködött. A helyzetet súlyosbította, hogy az arisztokraták - legtöbbje remek pilóta volt -, akik Bugatti és Steyr kocsikat vásároltak versenyzés céljára, felhagytak úri „játékukkal”. Ehhez párosult a nagy gazdasági világválság, valamint az akkori autósport-szakág vezetésének tehetetlensége. Hartmann viszont visszaadta a hitet…
Az autósport hőskorában nem volt jellemző, hogy valaki már nyolc-tíz évesen elkezdje az autósportot. Hősünknek is be kellett érnie ahhoz, hogy elinduljon karrierje. Abban az időben - 1926-tól - a Gugger- és a János-hegyeken is tartottak versenyeket, ahol az eredménylistákra már feljegyezték a nevét, hiszen rendre jobb volt, mint Lyka István, Heteés Sándor, Fritz von Zsolnay vagy Wentzel-Mosau. Hivatalosan csak 1928-ban kezdte pályafutását egy Hupmobile-lal, de igazából csak a harmincas évtized első felében figyeltek fel rá, amikor Bugattira váltott. Legelőször 1930-ban a Sváb-hegyi Eb-n, ahol 2,3 literes, kompresszoros Bugatti T 35 B versenyautójával előbb második Hans Stuck mögött, majd egy évvel később a harmadik helyen végzett.
1932-ben a hírhedt nürburgringi aszfaltcsíkon (Német GP) az 1500 cm3-s géposztályban ezüstérmes lett, de csak a következő évben, Táton tette le igazán a névjegyét a szakemberek előtt, amikor 2300 cm3-s autójával az akkori időkben szenzációs nemzetközi rekordot állított fel 131,148 km/órás átlagsebességgel. Ugyanebben az évben a monacói nagydíjon nyolcadik lett, míg a Cseh GP-n egy hellyel előrébb végzett. Természetesen egyéb versenyeken is megmérette magát, mint például az azévi freiburgi hegyiversenyen, ahol a sportkocsik kategóriájában a legjobbnak bizonyul.

(Folytatás az Autósport és Formula Magazin 2005/5. májusi számában)

Maybe Geza Sury can translate the text for us and can confirm that Hartmann was born on 17 August 1901 and died on 16 May 1938 (the day after his accident at Tripoli which happened on 15 May).

#33 Geza Sury

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Posted 20 June 2006 - 18:42

Originally posted by ReWind
Maybe Geza Sury can translate the text for us and can confirm that Hartmann was born on 17 August 1901 and died on 16 May 1938 (the day after his accident at Tripoli which happened on 15 May).

This article is only the preview of the "real" article which has appeared last year in the Hungarian magazine "Autósport és Formula". This is the magazine I'm working for (in my spare time), so I can ask the editor if I can reproduce the article in full length here. (In English of course.) The article also features some photos which I have never seen before. The most interesting is undoubtedly the first racing licence of Hartmann. This contains his date of birth which is indeed 17th August 1901.

#34 ReWind

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Posted 23 July 2006 - 09:28

Originally posted by Geza Sury
I can ask the editor if I can reproduce the article in full length here. (In English of course.)

@ Geza: How is the state of affairs?

#35 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 12 August 2006 - 05:40

Originally posted by Geza Sury
...I can ask the editor if I can reproduce the article in full length here. (In English of course.)...

Yes - I would also like to read that story, please. :D

#36 pnegyesi

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Posted 04 March 2009 - 17:00

You waited a long, long time. But now, the time has come. A detailed story on Laszlo Hartmann's life is being translated. Either today or tomorrow, you'll see it :wave:

#37 ReWind

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Posted 04 March 2009 - 18:43

I'd like to nominate pnegyesi for "Most Useful New Member of the Month". ;)

Any objections?

#38 pnegyesi

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Posted 04 March 2009 - 20:12

Well, you've been waiting for a long, long time for this.

In 1998, Veterán Autó és Motor, a local classic car magazine published a detailed article on László Hartmann, "Devoted to speed". It was written by Gyula Burányi, a Hungarian-born motorsport enthusiast, who's an avid researcher of the local autosport. I am in touch with him on how to feature some of his photos.

I am not going to translate the article in its entirety, but the essence is here.
László Hartmann was an internationally recognized sportsman. Germans and Austrians called him "Láci", Britons and French nicknamed him Grock - after a famous clown and referring to his small frame, always wide smile and grumpy hair. Between 1928 and 1938 he participated at many races from the South African Cape Town to the ice-covered track on the Ramen-lake in Sweden, from local races in Transsylvania to the Comminges GP in France. Two things motivated him: a love for the sports and patriotism. At a race in Brno he wasn't willing to appear on the starting grid, until he saw the Hungarian flag next to the others. He reached many international records with Bugatti and Maserati. He participated at hillclimbs, track-races, dirt-tracks and ice-fields as well. He never became a so-called factory driver, he remained independent up until his death. He paid his cars, crew and all other incurring costs from his own packet, financing it from starting money, plus income from his real estates and stocks.
He was born as a son of a trader who dealt with paints. First he took up wrestling and boxing, but wasn't satisfied, so he gravitated towards autosport. The first "victim" was the family-owned Hupmobile. He participated at a 1928 race hosted by the Tiszántúli Automobil Club. He finished at the 14th place.

A year later he advanced a bit and took part on the Monte Carlo Rally and won a special prize, because he was able to finish the race with his Hupmobile, despite his accident. In April at a hill-climb race in Königsaal (Zbraslav)-Jiloviste he used a Bugatti, which was lent to him by a friend but it was too fast for him and he rolled it over during tests. He survived this incident without any scratches. He used the heavy Hupmobile, 'til 7 December, 1929 when he bought Tivadar Zichy's Bugatti at an auction.
This was a 2.3-liter powered 35B with supercharger (engine number 161, chassis no 4916) capable of 140 hp. It marked a new era for Hartmann
On 23 December, 1929 Hartmann broke a record (the Hungarian text is rather confusing, it says: Hungarian standing-start international record). He became the fastest Hungarian racer and won the Delmar Walter cup.
At the beginning of 1930 he bought another Bugatti, a 37A from Alán Szénássy and from then on, there was hardly any event where he did not participate in two categories. He started the new season at the French Riviera, where he won the sportscar-category at the Grasse and Raphael circuits with this Bugatti 37. And on 15 May, 1930 he broke his own "standing start" record with the 35B. Over the course of 1930 he broke this record two additional times. He won races in Austria and Germany. But he lost control at the Schwabenberg race and was out.
...
On the Summer of 1932 the Bugatti factory lent him a German racer, Hans Lewy's Bugatti 51, which enabled him to win the 1932 and 1933 Guggenberg hillclimb races. He participated again at Monte Carlo with a "touring Bugatti" and then at Monaco, where he reached 8th place.
...
He got various awareds: from the Hungarian governor, from Sir Malcolm Campbell and the German automobile club as well.
In 1934 he took part on the Monte Carlo Rally. He won the dirt track race of the Royal Hungarian Automobile Club, and then he was at Kesselberg, Nürburgring, Freiburg and Linchendorf. He took part at the inaugural Swiss GP in two categories but without any success. In Brno he finished 7th at the Masaryk GP and back home he won the Gödöllő race of the Terézvárosi Torna Club (Terezvaros [a part of Budapest] Gymnastic Club).

To be continued tomorrow.

#39 Rob G

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Posted 05 March 2009 - 02:13

Good stuff. I'm looking forward to part II. :up:

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#40 pnegyesi

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Posted 05 March 2009 - 06:23

Part two

In 1934 Hartmann was comissioned by the Royal Hungarian Automobile Club to conduct negotations with foreign racers on a GP to be hosted in Hungary. Parallel to that he managed to secure a 180-hp, twin-cam, 1500 cc, 6-cylinder, double Weber carburetor engined Maserati for the 1935 season which was lent to him by Maserati. He painted it in red-white-green (Hungarian national colors) and reached 7th place at Tunis. In Tripolis there was no small-category so he couldn't start. He was at Avus, Eifel, Chimany and the Comminges GP - he was 3rd at the latter. He did not finish the 2nd Swiss GP. He was 5th at the Masaryk GP. Back at home he won two categories at the Dobogókő hill-climb race and had an international record at Gyon. Over at Transsylvania, at Felek he won the local hill-climb race.
Then it was back to Hungary where he won both the Guggenberg and the Hármashatárhegy (sorry, there's translation at the other topic). He also tried his hand at the winter GP in Sweden at the Ramen Lake. On the way to Sweden he got stuck in the snow, so he was ill-prepared to participate and gave up the race. But good news came: Maserati offered him a paid driver status for several races.
At the long-awaited 1936 Hungarian GP he finished 7th place with his 1500 cc Maserati. He continued the 1936 season in Italy, where he finished 4th at the Ciano Cup. At the 1936 Bodensee-Balaton (Platensee) touring race he became first in his category with a Steyr touring car which he shared with György Mellinger. At the 1936 Masaryk GP he did not finish, but at Gyón he had another speed record and won at Hármashatárhegy as well.
For the 1937 season Maserati provided him a 6C/34 cc, 3,7 liter racer, which was prevoiusly used by Tazio Nuvolari.
This was a serious move upwards.
At Tripolis he finished 13th, at Avis he finished 6th - only factory drivers finished in higher position, 12th place at Nürburgring. He won the sportscar category at the same race, driving a supercharged Alfa Romeo, provided by Ernst Günther Burgaller. At the Swiss GP he finished 10th, he started in two categories at the Masaryk race in Brno and with the big Maserati he became 3rd and 7th.
He died at the Tripolis GP on 16 May, 1938.
His Bugatti 35B survived the 2nd World War and was last raced by Ferenc Gaál at the Tihany GP in 1949. Today it is in a Swedish collection.

Thank you for your patience :cool:

#41 David McKinney

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Posted 05 March 2009 - 07:54

No, thank you Pal
Surely, though, his 1935 Maserati was an 8CM GP model?
The 6CM of 1936 was then followed by a 4CM-2500 in 1937, as well as the 6C-34, and a 4CM-1500

#42 fines

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Posted 05 March 2009 - 08:36

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Originally posted by ReWind
I'd like to nominate pnegyesi for "Most Useful New Member of the Month". ;)

Seconded! Seconded! Seconded! :D

#43 pnegyesi

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Posted 05 March 2009 - 08:36

The article only mentions the following Maserati models:
- 1500 6CM and 4Cm
- 6C/34

#44 Michael Müller

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Posted 05 March 2009 - 10:44

Originally posted by pnegyesi
On the Summer of 1932 the Bugatti factory lent him a German racer, Hans Lewy's Bugatti 51, which enabled him to win the 1932 and 1933 Guggenberg hillclimb races.

:clap:
2 unsolved questions on my list with one sentence...!
(1) Why was Hartmann's T51 white
(2) Where did Lewy's #51137 went to after the German GP 1932.

Logical solution indeed, but I was confused by this photo:
http://www.sciencean...ag=2&imagepos=1
Hartmann at the 1932 Avusrennen, which led me to the conclusion that he already then had the T51. Obviously wrong, no race number on car, so could be any other event too. Zoltan Glass took photos also in 1933, so it must be from that year.

At the German GP on 17 July 1932 Lewy's #51137 was driven and crashed by Paul Pietsch. After that the car disppeared in my files, as did Lewy. He was Jewish, and as far known he left Germany in 1935, but that not necessarely has something to do with his retirement from racing as early as 1932.

What I doubt is the term "Bugatti lent", it would be more likely that Hartmann bought the car from Lewy, probably in damaged condition, and may even on the spot at the Nürburgring. It seems that Hartmann decided to keep the car white, at least during 1933.

#45 Michael Müller

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Posted 05 March 2009 - 10:59

Originally posted by pnegyesi
Parallel to that he managed to secure a 180-hp, twin-cam, 1500 cc, 6-cylinder, double Weber carburetor engined Maserati for the 1935 season which was lent to him by Maserati. He painted it in red-white-green (Hungarian national colors)...

Believe this is wrong, the 6CM he got on loan only in 1936.
In 1935 he raced a privately owned 3 litre Maserati 8CM. See photo below.

Posted Image

#46 pnegyesi

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Posted 05 March 2009 - 12:43

Originally posted by Michael Müller

Believe this is wrong, the 6CM he got on loan only in 1936.
In 1935 he raced a privately owned 3 litre Maserati 8CM. See photo below.

Posted Image


Yep, you're right in 1935 he had a 8CM. The article wasn't perfect :cool:

#47 Michael Müller

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Posted 05 March 2009 - 13:01

Up to now I was unable to find out where he got it from. It's one of the early 62 cm narrow chassis cars.

#48 pnegyesi

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Posted 07 March 2009 - 13:50

Originally posted by pnegyesi


Yep, you're right in 1935 he had a 8CM. The article wasn't perfect :cool:


Well, I spoke at length with Gyula Burányi, author of the Hartmann article and the owner of the "8 CM" picture which Michael published here.

He says, quite firmly, that this ain't no 8CM. This is a 6 CM which has been modified by Hartmann. According to his information (and he researched Hartmann's life quite extensively) Hartmann never raced a 8 CM.

Any objections :)?

#49 Adam F

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Posted 07 March 2009 - 14:55

Originally posted by pnegyesi
Well, I spoke at length with Gyula Burányi, author of the Hartmann article and the owner of the "8 CM" picture which Michael published here.

He says, quite firmly, that this ain't no 8CM. This is a 6 CM which has been modified by Hartmann. According to his information (and he researched Hartmann's life quite extensively) Hartmann never raced a 8 CM.

Any objections :)?


First of all, it is very pleasing to have contact with people such as pnegyesi and Gyula Buranyi, who can share their knowledge of Laszlo Hartmann.

With due respect to Mr. Buranyi's expertise, as far as I can see, the car in Michael's photo is NOT a 6CM. Even if it had been modified by Hartmann it would exhibit the proportions of a 6CM, which it does not.

To my untrained eye the car has several visible features consistent with it being an 8CM.

#50 David McKinney

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Posted 07 March 2009 - 16:17

Yes, I would swear it's an 8CM
In 1936 Hartmann did race six-cylinder Maserati, a 3.7-litre GP car, but I'm sure his 1935 mount was a 3.0-litre eight