30 replies to this topic

[Bjorn]

My mate's a Jordan fan, Jordan's been his favorite team since I got him into watching F1. I always thought it was just because of the fancy colours ;), but it turns out there's more. I told him today that the new Jordan was being tested and it looked... ehm.. different. To which he replied "I hope it's junk." I asked him whatever makes you say that, to which he replied that he just couldn't forgive Jordan for sacking Frentzen and losing Trulli. Plus he can't stand Fisichella for some reason, but that's beside the point.
But that got me wondering, what do the Jordan fans out there think? Still as firm supporters as ever, or have these two (three?) events changed your opinions of the team in any way? The rest of you?

[Ali_G]

I'm still a big Jordan fan.

Did new stuff coem up about the Frentzen - Eddie Jordan conflict. Something about Frentzen not wanting to do what Eddie Jordan asked him. Seemingly he had to much control over what he wanted out of the car or something. If someone has a link to the story please post it.

ont he Trulli side, I couldn't care less. Trulli, while being a rocket during Qualifying, was for some reason crap during the race. in Fisichella we have a great qualifier and racer. Great to see him back at Jordan. THankfully, this time round, Ralf Schumacher is not his team mate.

Its like this. Eddie jordan has had a lot of stick lately about what he did to HHF. But what about Frank WIlliams a few years ago. look at what he did Hill. Sacked him in the year of his World Championship. Sacked Frentzen cause he was too slow. Did a similar thing to Zanardi.
its just a fact of F1. These things happen. And more of this will happen in the future.

Niall

[The Swerve]

Eddie's a shrewd businessman. He knows what he is doing I reckon.

[thornwell]

Hey, I like Jordan as much as the next guy to jump on the bandwagon, as I am wont to do anytime any team threatens the established order.

I think EJ asked Heinz to play bass in the band and Heinz said no, that Spanish guitar was his instrument of choice, and EJ made a comment about rhythm and HHF lacking it, and HHF only being able to pluck two chords on a bass, etc.

Then things got ugly, and faxes flew.

And in regards, to Fisichella, he's a multi-instrumentalist, so things should work out well there.

Just my thought.

[Brian O Flaherty]

Originally posted by Ali_G
I'm still a big Jordan fan.

Did new stuff coem up about the Frentzen - Eddie Jordan conflict. Something about Frentzen not wanting to do what Eddie Jordan asked him. Seemingly he had to much control over what he wanted out of the car or something. If someone has a link to the story please post it.

The last I heard was that they had a difference of opinion over how the car was being developed. Something about it being set up closer to what Trulli wanted. I can't remember which way around it was but I think Frentzen wanted an understeering car and it was oversteering or vice versa. This professional difference meant they couldn't work together.

Originally posted by Ali_G
ont he Trulli side, I couldn't care less. Trulli, while being a rocket during Qualifying, was for some reason crap during the race. in Fisichella we have a great qualifier and racer. Great to see him back at Jordan. THankfully, this time round, Ralf Schumacher is not his team mate.

Completely agree here. Trulli never ceased to amaze me how he could fall asleep behind the wheel after about lap 10. I welcome Fizzy back with open arms as I believe we really have one of the 4 fastest guys in the world on board.

Originally posted by Ali_G
Its like this. Eddie jordan has had a lot of stick lately about what he did to HHF. But what about Frank WIlliams a few years ago. look at what he did Hill. Sacked him in the year of his World Championship. Sacked Frentzen cause he was too slow. Did a similar thing to Zanardi.
its just a fact of F1. These things happen. And more of this will happen in the future.

Niall

My opinion of Eddie has gone up since he fired Harry-Heinz because now I believe he may be able to cut it in the cut-throat world of F1 whereas before I was afraid he was a bit too naive and "happy". The image he portrayed was of someone not trying hard enough to succeed, content to be throwing parties for the other teams and playing the drums.


I have been a Jordan fan since day 1 and this season I am more optimistic than ever with 2 excellent drivers, a new worx Honda engine and a gnarly new design

[Bjorn]

Thornwell:

Btw, my opinion of the Jordan team hasn't changed very much at all. I didn't like that Frentzen thing, but new blood in the team and quite a radical design... can't wait to see how that turns out

[Jhope]

*looks up, sees two Jordan hats hanging from his ceiling*

Yeah, the teams alright. They've been my number 2 team for years after my beloved Williams squad.

When Williams were in the dumps in 1999, I turned to Jordan. It helped. But 1998 was sad all-round as both tams sucked bad!

What Eddie J did to Heinz was the right thing to do. If you don't listen to your boss, what's the natural thing for the boss to do in order to keep harmony and a peaceful working environment? As for Trulli, Eddie wanted to keep him, but Flavio had an option on his services.

[Ali_G]

Brian: You raise a good point about Jordan's past softly softly approach.

For years, Jordan have been seen as the party boys of F1. (Picking up where Hesketh left off)
But Parties does not equal WDC's.

I'm guessing that this sacking came of more of a shock due to it being from Eddie Jordan. For years he had seemed like a nice guy, whith a smile on his face. Quite the opposite to Frank Williams whose serious business look has always been attributed to him. But look how good Williams have done.

Niall

[BMW FW22]

Your friend is just insane ;)

Fisichella is just 2 times better than Frentzen and Trulli, even though they are really good

fisi is in my top 3 .. really

[Hakkinen is a robot]

I am a Jordan fan (harder than it might seem the last year or two), and couldn't be happier to trade a fast qualifier (Trulli) for a racer (GF).
As for HHF, we'll never know what went on behind closed doors. I admire him but he appears to need every little thing working just so to be a GP winner, and apparently Eddie came to same conclusion that FW had.
The new car is certainly better looking than last year's toothless old hag, but we need a step forward from the Honder guys.
Sato will find the going tough.

[fifi]

i liked Jordan til they signed Damon Hill, although i was happy when they won at Spa 98 i wished it was Ralf who won instead

[Michael Connolly]

Like many Jordan fans I was perplexed at the way Frentzen was dismissed. But it's a big team and EJ has a resposibily to his backers and 250+ employees to act decisively if he feels something is not working.

Losing Trulli is not a reflection on Jordan, everyone knew FB had an option on him and was liable to exercise it. I think getting Fisi on a long-term contract was a masterstroke - Fisi is now under contract to Jordan and only Jordan.

Sato is an unknown quantity (to me). I don't expect a whole lot from him this year but in time he may become a worthy successor to HHF.

Frentzen seems a nice guy and a talented driver. I hope he gets an Arrows seat for 02.

Jordan are a great team who have come through two tough years. THey have had my support since 91, and will have it until they're bought.

[thornwell]

Bjorn -- I shouldn't be a smartass all the time. Your post raises some good issues, and I think I'll respond again and not be smart.

Anyway, I consider myself a sincere fan of Jordan. The sincerity grew with the first Fisichella / Jordan pairing, and continued with Frentzen.
For some unfounded reason, I've never really been into Trulli, so I wasn't sad to see him go. I think the new driver pairing is one of the most intriguing on the pitlane. We have Fisichella, almost everybody's "if only" driver late, and Sato, a big "if" as well. It will be hard comparing their performance if Fisichella continues his streak of teammate domination, but if Sato has the upper hand. . .

Anyway, I like the new car. I'm happy to witness and appreciate a risk and possibly a genuine evolution, as it's happening.

[Brian O Flaherty]

Originally posted by Ali_G
I'm guessing that this sacking came of more of a shock due to it being from Eddie Jordan.

Exactly. To be honest it was a shock to me too but a nice one cuz Eddie came of age that day IMHO.

Had it been FW who sacked Heinz the F1 world wouldn't have batted an eyelid. They would have added HH to Frank's growing list of ex-employees.

I was dis-illusioned by HHF's performances last year anyhoo, knowing he would achieve nothing at each GP while being thoroughly out-qualified by Trulli.

Thanx for the wins and points HHF but your time had passed.

[Scudetto]

While I don't particularly rate Trulli very high (although we are both paisan ) in all fairness to his 2001 form, the EJ11 was notoriously hard on tires, thus the difference between qualifying form and his ability to maintain pace over a race distance.

While fewer hard-core tifosi than I exist, I'm a stalwart Jordan fan (it's the only non-Ferrari baseball cap I own). The events of 2001 did little to shake my support for Eddie's squad. I've been an admirer of his since he joined the grid in '91 and have continuously been impressed with his ability to survive and compete against the best.

IMO, the Frentzen episode, while unfortunate, was probably deemed a tragic necessity by EJ. I doubt we'll ever get the WHOLE truth. Clearly, EJ knew that the move would not garner the best PR for either him or his team (nevermind putting his German sponsorship in question), but felt it had to be done nonetheless. I doubt EJ would traverse such treacherous oceans without good reason.

Examining the BIG picture, I think that one of Jordan's biggest problems over the last two seasons were difficulties in morphing overnight from a small, private team battling the mid-pack with few expectations of greatness to a front-running team from whom people expected the world.

I, for one, think the cards will fall in alignment for EJ this season or next when his new drivers and team personnel have a chance to gel.

Whatever one might think of EJ, he (and, too, Peter Sauber) has demonstrated how a privateer does it RIGHT in modern F1. Respect, if not love, is deserved.

[Linus27]

I am a Jordan fan and this year has been brilliant for me as a fan. First, Frentzen gets the sack. He is one driver who I have never rated. Always felt his head was not on properly and never had the ability to be anything great. Second, Alesi, my favourite driver drives for my favourite team. Third, Trulli is leaving. Boy I nearly threw a party that day. What a complete waste of a good seat at Jordan. I can't think of anything he did for Jordan that was special or inspiring apart from Monaco qualifying. Even Alesi, with little time in the car did one of the best overtaking moves of the season around Pedro on the outside at Hungary. Also a great battle with Rubens at Spa and held of the Williams of Ralf which should have eaten the Jordan at a track like Spa. Sorry but Trulli is a waste of space and has done nothing in F1 to inspire me. Maybe we should fax him and tell him its racing not 1 hotlap. Then, Fizzy, probably my 2nd overall favourite driver is coming home to Jordan. Boy what a great year and 2002 is going to be better now those two useless drivers, Frentzen and Trulli are long gone. Good ridance LOSERS.

[Romulus]

Do u guys seriously belive that HHF lost out to trulli in qualyfying 1-9 simply because trulli was faster??

No way, look at the qualyfying stats the year before. The EJ-11 clearly didn't suit HHF. HHF stated many times that he thought the car needed development and that something had to be done about the reability problem. Frentzen was 3 in 99. Collected a massive amount of points and crushed former champion Damon Hill. Had the oppurtunity to win the entire wcc!!!!!!!!!! before the last race. Was voted driver of the year!!! I mean come on, had Jordan made a good car HHF would have been up there.


Instead that "%/"#/"#¤/#¤" piece of "#"¤##¤/"#¤/#"¤/¤# fires the same guy who has brought success to his "#¤/"¤#/"¤#"¤# team.

When i heard that HHF had been sacked I was out at my fammilys country house. I was so upset that i picked up an axe and cut down a large pine three and chopped it up.

I became a Jordan fan because HHF was there. HHF is my fav driver and I'll follow him where ever he goes.

After some time has past and i still like the Jordan cars and Fisi i hope he does well in the Jordan.
Ej however i'm having a hard time to forgive...

[Billy]

Originally posted by BMW FW22
Your friend is just insane ;)

Fisichella is just 2 times better than Frentzen and Trulli, even though they are really good

fisi is in my top 3 .. really

I really like Fisi, but he will only be confirmed as a top driver when he stops making small mistakes of over-the-limit driving. For example, at Germany last year he was closing on Jax in the last few laps, but then went off the track. I really thought he could be on the podium in that race. At Suzuka, he was closely following Ralf through Degner 1. On the exit, Ralf nearly spun 1/4 of the way, but saved the slide, but Fisi immediately spun through 180 degrees. Granted Fisi then made up all the places he had lost, but these sort of mistakes are what costs victories when you are in a top car.

[Billy]

Originally posted by Romulus
Instead that "%/"#/"#¤/#¤" piece of "#"¤##¤/"#¤/#"¤/¤# fires the same guy who has brought success to his "#¤/"¤#/"¤#"¤# team.

It was a long term decision. Jordan couldn't see that Frentzen was the future driver to win a WDC for the team, his time was past.

[F1_racing_fan]

I have always been a Jordan fan even though I don't like EJ that much as I can see through his "Blarney" but I totaly agreed with him sacking HHF. I felt HHF had gone off the boil a bit and can't help but think there is more to it than we know. His health is 1 thing that springs to mind after the big knocks he took over the last few years and going home form Canada, surely it's like a boxer who takes too many knocks there comes a point where you might start to worry and back off that little bit, which is what I think happened to HHF. If he is so good then why hasen't he got a seat yet? You can bet that other team bosses took note when Jordan gave him the boot.

Trulli might be missed but we will just have to wait and see? God help him if Button beats him this year!

I'm delighted to see Fisi back at Jordan and think Renault might regret letting him go.

[gerry nassar]

Seriously, It just shows how fickle F1 fans can be (myself included). In 99 - Freentzen was hailed as brilliant when he single handedly drove a very good car (the 3rd best of the year) to two wins and a pole position while fighting for the championship. Now - everyone has gone sour.

Clearly, Frentzen had a lot of bad luck in 01 and the car was being setup to Trulli's liking - not his. Just have a look at how HHF outraced Trulli in Melbourne, Brazil and Malaysia. Things started going downhill when LC and TC were introduced and Frentzen had all thos startline problems. Then the Monaco accident probably damaged him for a while. But when he went to Prost we saw glimmers of his old form.

Now to the thread topic - I liked Jordan as my second team after Williams since 97 and at the beginning of 99 they became my favourite team when HHF joined them. After what happened last year I like Eddie Jordan less but i'll still support Jordan because I highly rate Fisichella and look forward to see what Sato can do. Also Im hoping that Honda and Hamidy can step up and help another team fight the big boys. I didnt care all that much for Trulli so his move to Renault didnt affect me.

My Joint favourite teams are:

1. Maclaren and Williams
2. Jordan
3. Sauber and Whatever team HHF will drive for

[Billy]

Fisichella would know of the Renault engine plans. The new engine is supposed to be a big breakthrough, running without camshafts. If it was expected within Renault that they would have the top engine next year, with some sort of massive horsepower advantage, I think Fisichella would have stayed with the team, even taking the paycut that Briatore offered him. My guess is that once Fisi learned of actual performance figures of the new Honda versus the new Renault, he wasn't so unhappy to leave the team.

[gerry nassar]

In 97 at Jordan Fisi was flying! I remember most of the years Top 10 lists had him up there with MS and MH in the top 3 - ahead of JV who won the championship. Being at Jordan suited him more than those wasted years at Benneton.

[AD]

First of all Jordan will always be my favourite team. I can't ever see that changing.

However the last 2 years have been pretty depressing . Why? well;
1. The loss of Gascoyne
2. The EJ-10 couldn't finish a race
3. Jordan finished "only" 6th in the championship
4. The EJ-11 coultn't finish a race
5. Frentzen was given less input in the development of the car despite being a good car developer
6. Trulli seems to carry a dark cloud over him with reguard to luck last year
7. The sacking of Frentzen
8. Honda were hopeless last year
9. Then lost Trulli
10. Eddie saying that next years budget will probably only be 70% of last years

However there have been some good signs of late;
1. Fisichella is real top quality, and importantly seems a good development driver
2. Gary Anderson is back
3. This is the first Hamidy influenced car
4. Honda can't be any worse than they were last year, they can only go one way - up.


Hopefully this year Jordan can finish 5th in the championship, as I think that Ferrari, McLaren, BMW Williams, and Renault will be too strong.

[Cociani]

Originally posted by Billy
I really like Fisi, but he will only be confirmed as a top driver when he stops making small mistakes of over-the-limit driving. For example, at Germany last year he was closing on Jax in the last few laps, but then went off the track. I really thought he could be on the podium in that race. At Suzuka, he was closely following Ralf through Degner 1. On the exit, Ralf nearly spun 1/4 of the way, but saved the slide, but Fisi immediately spun through 180 degrees. Granted Fisi then made up all the places he had lost, but these sort of mistakes are what costs victories when you are in a top car.

Great drivers, Schumacher as an example, seem to tend to push slow cars too hard in a desparate attempt to move up the field. Once they get descent equipment they tend to drive on the limit and make few mistakes. Fisi has never had good equipment, I think if he ever does he will settle down and be consistantly fast. The only way to impress in slow cars is to take great risks, I think Fisi' foibles are more of an example of this fact than of his own abilities.

[SeanValen]

Jordan fans must move on, you still have yellow, you got one of the best drivers in f1 after Schuey in Fisi, good potential of Honda, a new era is starting.

[Ghostrider]

I really hope Honda can deliver a better engine in 2002 than the one in 2001. The engine in 2000 that BAR used seemed quite powerful, but last year Honda really lost ground.

With regards to Fisi, I agree a little with Billy, Fisi sometimes does some what seems to be unnecessary mistakes, like the one in Hockenheim when he was chasing Villeneuve. It was an unnecessary risk to go so on the limit, when he had a fourth place in his pocket. He did a small mistake, there was no damage done and Fisi took fourth place but I almost had a heartattack in front of the telly!! But I also agree with Cociani that Fisi almost always has had to push his material to the absolute limit, in order to challenge for points. You can see it on Button for instance. In the Williams in his first year he made very few mistakes, but when he tried to push as hard and be as close to the limit as Fisi in the Benetton some mistakes crept in, for instance Spa and Hungaroring.

GO Jordan!!!

[Zoe]

Originally posted by Billy
It was a long term decision. Jordan couldn't see that Frentzen was the future driver to win a WDC for the team, his time was past.

While this may well be true, why on earth did Jordan renew Heinz' contract just a few weeks before sacking him? That doesn't seem a smart move to me.

Zoe

[Billy]

perhaps Eddie Jordan made a strategic mistake re-signing Frentzen in June, and afterwards figured out that he had to get Sato into his team. That would put him in a better strategic position than BAR with Honda, given their track record of support of Japanese drivers. Sato is very quick and also comes with sponsor potential, a perfect driver for Eddie Jordan to consider. With Sato as a long term prospect for his team, he then had to decide between an older quick driver like Frentzen or a younger but reasonably experienced quick driver like Fisichella or Trulli. Neither Trulli nor Fisichella have yet achieved anything like Frentzen, but Eddie Jordan was trying to make a decision based on their potential in the next two years.

[Robbie]

Originally posted by The Swerve
Eddie's a shrewd businessman. He knows what he is doing I reckon.

You see, that's the problem. He sometimes seems to be primarily a businessman.

I suspect that he is finding it hard to convince drivers that he can move the team forwards (Trulli cleary thought that). Fisi was devastated at the relegation: an amazing fact when you consider how poor the Benneton had often looked.

Re Trulli: remember he wondered if Eddie would be willing to spend some of his money (he has a vast fortune now) on the development of the car?

He was right to sack HHF, but he should have sacked Hill. But, as ever, with Eddie business reasons prevailed.

[Nustang70]

well, with Frentzen being my favorite driver and Jordan being my favorite tam, i felt very torn between the two when frentzen was sacked. but, i still love jordan so i cant leave them.

losing trulli was bad, but gaining fisichella is more than a fair trade.