129 replies to this topic

[McRonalds]

Serching for Interscope pictures I discovered a lot of cars from that Team carrying #0 or even #00! In Europe such numbers are really unusual and I remember when some years ago Williams was left by their worldchampions Mansell & Prost they had to carry #0 for neither Prost nor Senna, who joined that team, would like to carry that number 0!

Where did that numbers come from? I even remember racing numbers in USA like 06 or 08.

[David McKinney]

Not to mention 05 in Australia

[maxim]

Jody Schechter drove a #0 Yardley McLaren at Mosport and Watkins Glen in 1973, but fixed F1 team numbers were imposed only in 1974.
Look strange that, due to JYS retirement, Ronnie Peterson (3rd in 1973 WDC) carried number 1 that year.

[McRonalds]

Originally posted by maxim
Jody Schechter drove a #0 Yardley McLaren at Mosport and Watkins Glen in 1973, but fixed F1 team numbers were imposed only in 1974.
Look strange that, due to JYS retirement, Ronnie Peterson (3rd in 1973 WDC) carried number 1 that year.

That's a fact that has astonished me most too when I discovered it! Looks like the constructors-title was rated much hight in the seventies!

[2F-001]

Didn't the Rover-BRM turbine car race with the number '0' or '00' as well... ?

[Mike Argetsinger]

It is more traditional in America than in Europe to use a favorite or traditional number. For example when I race my own car here I usually am able to obtain my traditional # which is 22 (I adopted this number because it was the number my father used most frequently). In the SCCA each division (there are 8) maintains a preferred number list - if you get your entry in on time you are guaranteed your number. When you race out of divison - or at the RunOffs - there are often conflicts and the preferred number goes to the local driver or at the Runoffs to whoever gets their entry in first. By comparison, I raced in Europe for 10 years and virtually never was able to choose a number. They were assigned by the organizing body and no preference was asked for.

The various professional series in America each maintain their own preferred number system and do the best they can to accomodate personal preference.

This preference for favorite numbers is particularly prevalent in NASCAR where the announcers and fans often refer to "the 8 car" or "the 3 car" etc. The numbers belong to NASCAR but are assigned to the teams and follow the team - not the driver.

The answer to your question about numbers such as 06 or 08 etc. is that some races have more than 100 entries - Daytona 24 Hour is an example - and rather than having 3 digits they begin with putting a zero before the single digits available. The other instances in which I have seen this is when a team brings a second car and wants the numbers to be as similar as possible. I have seen Roger Penske - who always ran #6 - do this very thing - and others. Another instance would be if someone showed up with #8, for example, on their car - and it had already been assigned - they may use 08.

It does seem to be more an American thing than European.

[AndreasNystrom]

Damon Hill comes to my mind.

[ensign14]

When they stabilized numbers in F1, they needed someone to carry no. 1 after Stewart retired in 1973. So they gave it to Ronnie Peterson, presumably as Lotus were Constructors' Champion. Funny they didn't do that in '93 and '94.

Delma Cowart in NASCAR uses the number 0, while Sam Ard in Busch GN used to use 00 (and Buckshot Jones used it for a while). AJ used it in the USAC Stock Car championship in the mid 60s.

But the greatest ever 00 racer was of course Dick Dastardly...

[Rob G]

Originally posted by ensign14
But the greatest ever 00 racer was of course Dick Dastardly...

I take it you've never heard of "Double 0" Joe Gosek?

[Hitch]

0-0!!!! But that Rover-BRM really carried that number 00 - but I don't know why (maybe because it fits in classment?) :

[McRonalds]

...that's right, I forgot that Rover-BRM at LeMans '63. But the #00 surely had something to do with the fact that the car ran in no specific class.



...and Interscope really loved that #00. I remember they raced at Sebring for example with #0 and #00. Here's a Lola from Miami '83.



...I think in Europe there's not so much fuss about the starting numbers - actually I think F1 can do it without them at all - or did anyone see those tiny numbers on the cars last year??????? And I never (or scarcely) remember a driver identifying with his starting number. Maybe Nigel Mansell's 'red 5' or Gilles Villeneuve's legendary #27, or maybe Damons ZERO...

...other suggestions...

[dmj]

Ayrton tried to use 12 whenever he could.

[MattFoster]

Last year Australian Touring Car Champ Craig Lowndes raced with #00 on the side of his Ford Falcon

[Catalina Park]

Originally posted by MattFoster
Last year Australian Touring Car Champ Craig Lowndes raced with #00 on the side of his Ford Falcon

CAMS has a rule that says: "Zero" alone is not permitted to be used as a number. so they use two zero's!

[Flying Panda]

I was surprised by the large mount of three-didget numbers in the V8 Supercars this year...

For many years Alan Heath has been running #134, and it was the only three didget car in the feild. It was unique...
Then John Bowe for some reason got the number #600. And then half the field had 3-didgit numebr.
It's amazing how quickly things change.

00
021
111
145
255
600
500
777
888


(photo's from www.v8Supercar.com.au)

[Barry Boor]

From my position as 'BORING OLD ANORAK', personally, I HATE it when I see 0 or 00 or 05 or anything of that type on a racing car.

[MattFoster]

Barry,

Why does it rile you so?

[Rob29]

Recent digging out of some old F.Atlantic results reminded me that Tony Trimmer used #958 in 1976.Is this the highest race number used ,or has anyone seen 4 figures?

[Darren Galpin]

1953 Mille Miglia:

2359 G Donnini/Maggiorello Maggiorelli Fiat 1100/103

[Barry Boor]

Matt - I think it is that to me, zero is not a number. Numbers start at 1. And putting 0 before a number is irrelevant. (Computer freaks need not reply!)

Rob - I have a suspicion that the number on Trimmer's car may have had something to do with a radio frequency. If we knew the car sponsor, we mave have the answer.

The Mille Miglia number signified, as most people know, a 1 minute to midnight start time.

[McRonalds]

Talking about odd racing numbers, what's this

[William Dale Jr]

Originally posted by Flying Panda
I was surprised by the large mount of three-didget numbers in the V8 Supercars this year...

For many years Alan Heath has been running #134, and it was the only three didget car in the feild. It was unique...
Then John Bowe for some reason got the number #600. And then half the field had 3-didgit numebr.
It's amazing how quickly things change.

In addition to Heath's 134, Tomas Mezera drove with 015 on his HRT Holden Commodore in 1994 and 1995. I think that may have had something to do with having Telecom Mobilenet as one of their sponsors...

Also, for the WTCC-Bathurst 1000 in 1987, an Alfa 33 was entered with the number 100. This was because it was a Class 3 (under 1600cc) car, and the numbers designated for that class started at 90.

[maxim]

Very funny that L on Alberto's Lancia. We've seen only letter T on some T-car in the 60's & 70's.

About Tony Trimmer #958 I don't know if it was a radio frequency, surely Lella Lombardi's #208 at Brands Hatch '74 was the name of a radio station, sponsor of her Brabham.

A question: Having MS to miss one or more 2002 GP, will his substitute carry number 1 or not?

[Roger Clark]

Originally posted by Barry Boor
Matt - I think it is that to me, zero is not a number. Numbers start at 1. (

Positive integers start at 1, numbers don't start anywhere. No wonder the country's in a mess, even the teachers....

[Rob29]

Originally posted by maxim
Very funny that L on Alberto's Lancia. We've seen only letter T on some T-car in the 60's & 70's.

About Tony Trimmer #958 I don't know if it was a radio frequency, surely Lella Lombardi's #208 at Brands Hatch '74 was the name of a radio station, sponsor of her Brabham.

A question: Having MS to miss one or more 2002 GP, will his substitute carry number 1 or not?

95.8FM was the Radio1 frequency,and the sponsor.Radio Luxemburg-208MW was Lella's teams sponsor. Until 1972 the only legal commercial radio station that could be heard in London.

[McRonalds]

Here's one thing I NEVER understood: why do those great series like CART or F1 leave out #13. Okay, everybody known the number stands for bad luck - but I think they make to much ado about nothing. I'm sure no team will day 'NO' if they number will be assigned to them (this year it would be Renault, who would carry #13 and #14, instead of #14 and #15).

The last time I think it was Divina Calica who raced with #13 at British GP '76. And I remember Moises Solana racing with that number at Mexico '63. Nothing happened...
13x

[ensign14]

Re 13, yeah, the bad luck thing is ridiculous. Someone once told me that Italians have a similar fear of 17 but Osella used it.

Re L, J D McDuffie made his debut in a car numbered X. NASCAR quite often had 3 numbers, or combos of letters and numbers (Tim Flock won the title in the 50s driving 500-B for the most part). They kiboshed it in the late 50s. I even have a picture somewhere of number 41 1/2...

I think Jimmy Horton had number 2 in Supermodifieds in about 1992, but had it as II to please a sponsor (no, it was not eleven)

Re 0 not being a number, Barry, don't get me started on that...what about imaginary numbers? How about the first car to use pi as a number?

[Rob G]

The World of Outlaws have many cars entered with a number and a letter, like 5m. However, the letter is usually so tiny that you can't really see it on TV. I've seen a WoO event run with four car 21's, which was ridiculous since they had far less than 100 participants. There's also a car numbered U2, with the U large and the 2 small.

[anjakub]

Other systems entered cars with letter and numbers.
The first Grand Prix de l’Automobile Club de France in 1906: number indicated mark of the cars (for example 8 – Itala, 2 – Fiat, 3 – Renault, 10 – Panhard) and letters indicated driver (8A – Pierre de Caters, 8B – Alessandro Cagno, 8C – Maurice Fabry).
Another system was in Grand Prix ACF in 1907. Letters indicated car (R – Renault, M – Mercedes, MB – Motobloc, LD – Lorraine Dietrich, F – Fiat, etc.). Numbers were for drivers (R-1 – Ferenc Szisz, F-2 – Felice Nazzaro, LD-1 – Leon Duray, and so forth).

[Felix Muelas]

Originally posted by McRonalds
And I remember Moises Solana racing with that number at Mexico '63. Nothing happened...

;)
Felix

[2F-001]

Radio frequencies...

Radio Luxembourg had some sponsorship deal in Formula 5000, with a car running with Number 208 (medium-wave AM frequency). Can't remember the usual driver... may have been Tom Belso (?).

[Flying Panda]

Originally posted by McRonalds
Here's one thing I NEVER understood: why do those great series like CART or F1 leave out #13.

No. Champ Car Teams are free to run #13 if they wish. Champ car team car run any number between 1 and 99 excluding -
#1 - Reserved for defending champion
#14 - Number only to be used by A.J. Foyt or one of his operations
#99 - Ina permanant tribute to Greg Moore, the number #99 will never be used on a Champ Car again.

Originally posted by 2F-001
Radio Luxembourg had some sponsorship deal in Formula 5000, with a car running with Number 208 (medium-wave AM frequency). Can't remember the usual driver... may have been Tom Belso (?).

Radio Luxembourg also had a sponership deal in F1. They sponsered Lella Lombardi's formula one debut Brabham-Ford BT42 at the British GP in 1974.
She failed to qualify.

[FLB]

Does anybody know if number 4 has ever been used in Japanese racing?

When driving for Tyrrell, Satoru Nakajima was quite adamant against using it.

[Hitch]

Originally posted by ensign14
Re 13, yeah, the bad luck thing is ridiculous. Someone once told me that Italians have a similar fear of 17 but Osella used it.

I remember Ferrari was superstitious one time, when Jacky Ickx was given #18 for the Spanish GP in '68. When they realized that this number Bandini had been carrying when he was killed at Monaco the year before it quickly was changed at Ferrari's request.

[Hitch]

Originally posted by McRonalds
The last time I think it was Divina Calica who raced with #13 at British GP '76. And I remember Moises Solana racing with that number at Mexico '63. Nothing happened...

The last #13 in F1 ;)

[Flying Panda]

Originally posted by FLB
Does anybody know if number 4 has ever been used in Japanese racing?

When driving for Tyrrell, Satoru Nakajima was quite adamant against using it.

No Japanese drive has driven in Formula one with the number 4.
Nor has any Japanese driver diven in Formula One with a four in their number. (e.g. 34)

[McRonalds]

What's wrong with #4 in Japan

[dmj]

In rallies it's not unusual to see even number 000 if there are three vehicles that open or close a stage.

[MrAerodynamicist]

Originally posted by McRonalds
...that's right, I forgot that Rover-BRM at LeMans '63. But the #00 surely had something to do with the fact that the car ran in no specific class.

How does a car run 'in no specific class'? Surely the point of rules is you don't met them you don't race?

[Darren Galpin]

Unless you are given a special dispensation to race.......

[McRonalds]

As far as I remember that car ran beyond competition...

...other infos? :

[McRonalds]

Originally posted by ensign14
Re 13, yeah, the bad luck thing is ridiculous. Someone once told me that Italians have a similar fear of 17 but Osella used it.

...but if you are searching for unfortunate correlations with that #13, you'll find them easily. Simple example: The only time we have a posthumous World Champion (Rindt) was during the only season with 13 WC-events. Nonsense - but some believe in such things...

[fines]

You'll find those correlations with any other number, too! You just need to look hard enough. Outside Christian confessions 13 is nothing but a number.

The Japanese word for "4" sounds the same as the Japanese word for "death". It doesn't stop Akira Yanagawa from performing heroics on his Kawasaki Superbike, though...

[ensign14]

Number 4 is unlucky in Japan because the word for '4' sounds a bit like the word 'death'.

13 was last used at Indy by George Mason in 1914. And World War 1 started only 6 months later. Coincidence?

In 1933 Lou Schneider entered a car numbered 13 at Indy and had the number painted on his car. The officials forced him to change it to 22. He finished last.

Li'l Joe Weatherly once refused to start a NASCAR race in 13th - they gave him grid position 12a.

Green was meant to be a hoodoo colour. Guess no-one told Tony Vandervell, the Owens, Colin Chapman, John Cooper, BRG etc...

[Hitch]

Okay, this is no quiz, I just want to show some strange numbers I found in my archive... but I have to admit, I have no idea when, where and who is pictured. The first one (#8B) looks like a Fiat, the second one (#34C) is probably a Mercedes. Both pictures are taken around 1907 I guess. But these picture are really just for interest and fun. What could a picture proof that's around 100(?!) years old...

[fines]

That's a strange number, really, a red cross in a white rectangle...

[Hitch]

Originally posted by ensign14
Number 4 is unlucky in Japan because the word for '4' sounds a bit like the word 'death'.

There are still some Japanese drivers who are not superstitious at all. Shenji Kasuya and Hideshi Matsuda drove that car #4 together with Charles Zwolsman and HHF (in cockpit) at Le Mans '92. And they finished...13th

[anjakub]

Hitch,
Both pictures are taken probably at Kaiserspreis in 1907. Fiat number 8B drove Felice Nazzaro. Who drove Mercedes 34C? (34A - Camille Jenatzy).

[McRonalds]

Originally posted by anjakub
Who drove Mercedes 34C? (34A - Camille Jenatzy).

Otto Salzer???

What a number thread!

[McRonalds]

Here we go - with #000 (no fake). The quiz is on: who, where, when?