66 replies to this topic

[Hitch]

Sometimes it seems collection/building model cars is no bad idea (though it's been some time ago since I last built one). I remember a (very interesting) recent thread about F1/Indycar connections - and here's one of those cars in question: the Kevin Cogan Dubonnet Ligier LC02-Cosworth from Long Beach '84. The question remains: who would built/buy such a model (I think this one is from Provence Moulage)?

[MattFoster]

IIRC the Ligier-Curb Indy racer was heavily based on the abysmal Ligier JS21 from '83. God knows why they would do that............

I also seem to remember Andrea de Cesaris being linked with driving the Ligier at the Indy 500. He was driving for Ligier in F1 at the time.

[Pikachu Racing]

This looks like an interesting tidbit. Curb Records sponsor on the car. Took them about 18 years later to sponsor an open wheel car again and Billy Boat driving it. The number of the car was, you guessed it, 98.

[dmj]

I would buy every Provence Moulage model (and every Ligier model, too) if my wages would allow it...

[McRonalds]

Originally posted by dmj
I would buy every Provence Moulage model (and every Ligier model, too) if my wages would allow it...

Quite expensive hobby, dmj!

[McRonalds]

Here's a view from behind...

[Gert]

Hitch, McRonalds: thanks for the pictures! Great!!!

Pikachu: IIRC: Curb stayed on as Car-owner & sponsor later on, entering cars with primary sponsorship from Skoal Bandit, driven amonst others by Tom Sneva and John Andretti...

[ensign14]

Curb was also the car owner for Richard Petty for a couple of years in the mid-80s.

The Ligier LC02 was not a great car...Kevin Cogan drove it once, Long Beach '84, with slower (but richer) team-mate Mike Chandler in an Eagle. By the next race (Phoenix), they had swapped round and Chandler DNQ'd. Cogan gave up on it at Indy.

[MattFoster]

It is quite a dog to look at, no wonder it didn't perform.

[AndreasNystrom]

wow! nice modell!.

I wish i could afford buying some!

I usually surf into www.f1m.com, they have lots of cool pictures of models in the gallery.

[fines]

Thanks for the picture, what a gem! And yes, it looks like a "beefier" JS21 with sidepods.

[Jim Thurman]

Originally posted by Pikachu Racing
This looks like an interesting tidbit. Curb Records sponsor on the car. Took them about 18 years later to sponsor an open wheel car again and Billy Boat driving it. The number of the car was, you guessed it, 98.

Mike Curb (also a one time Lt. Governor of California on top of his entertainment ventures) was usually involved in conjunction with the Agajanian family, so used their traditional #98. The Agajanian #98 was seen at Indy from around 1950 on with drivers like Johnny Mantz, Troy Ruttman and Parnelli Jones.


Jim Thurman

[Japan Time]

This story may have already been discussed in the past (before I started reading intensively what is published on the Nostalgia Forum), however I am searching details about the Dubonnet Ligier Curb LC02 Indy Car raced in 1984 by Kevin Cogan. As far as I can see the car only qualified once in Long Beach - and suffered a broken drive shaft on Lap 3. This is what I found in 8W:

An interesting, if short-lived point in Cogan's subsequent Indycar career concerned his Ligier (!) outing at Long Beach in 1984. Guy Ligier and promotor Mike Curb had grand ideas of breaking into CART racing using a hastily reworked Ligier JS21 chassis, along the lines of F1 refugee team Theodore's efforts. This was a total failure, however, and Cogan abandoned the Ligier-Curb for an Eagle 84SB, still backed by Curb.

Has any of you other information ? And some photos ?

I know that Provence Moulage released a model: ref. PRMK1557 LIGIER CURB LC02 INDY CAR 1984 "KEVIN COGAN" - but I could not see it anywhere up till now.

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by Japan Time
This story may have already been discussed in the past (before I started reading intensively what is published on the Nostalgia Forum), however I am searching details about the Dubonnet Ligier Curb LC02 Indy Car raced in 1984 by Kevin Cogan. As far as I can see the car only qualified once in Long Beach - and suffered a broken drive shaft on Lap 3. This is what I found in 8W:

Has any of you other information ? And some photos ?

I know that Provence Moulage released a model: ref. PRMK1557 LIGIER CURB LC02 INDY CAR 1984 "KEVIN COGAN" - but I could not see it anywhere up till now.

There's a reasonable photo in the Autocourse CART history book. If my scanner worked with my new PC I'd do the honours.

It looks like what it is - a JS21 with sidepods and a naked DFX. (i.e. VERY ugly!)

pete

[Rob Ryder]

Originally posted by petefenelon
There's a reasonable photo in the Autocourse CART history book

Here it is Pete..


(from Autocourse : CART - The First 20 Years)

[VDP]

There was a long article in GP International in 1983, about the european invasion in CART series ??
The Ligier was driven after by Mike Curb who's abandonned his Eagle, I don't remember why.
The all thing collapsed shortly after lack of money I presume


Robert

[theunions]

Cogan and Mike Chandler swapped rides at Phoenix at Curb's insistence, with Cogan racing the Eagle and Chandler DNQ'ing the Ligier. Cogan, Curb & co. entered the Ligier at Indy but parked it just four days into practice because they couldn't get it over 184 while the front runners were well into the 200's. They hoped (bleakly) they could get a replacement March, but once Chandler totaled the sister team's Eagle and suffered serious injuries on Friday, Cogan took over the hastily-assembled backup the following week and qualified. Neither Chandler nor Ligier were ever heard from again at the CART/500 level.

[theunions]

Originally posted by VDP
The Ligier was driven after by Mike Curb who's abandonned his Eagle, I don't remember why.
The all thing collapsed shortly after lack of money I presume

Curb was co-owner (with Gurney) - never a driver, and it was the Ligier that was abandoned. Curb and Gurney would field Eagles for Cogan and Ed Pimm the rest of the CART season.

Whatever happened to Pimm and Chandler?

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by Rob Ryder

Here it is Pete..


(from Autocourse : CART - The First 20 Years)

Cheers Rob - that's the one!

pete

[Japan Time]

Oh my god, this car IS horrible !!! I wonder why Provence Moulage lost their time doing it ?

Rob & Pete : thank you very much anyway for the info, this is very kind of you !

[masterhit]

It Certainly is no Chapparal

[Twin Window]

Originally posted by Japan Time
As far as I can see the car only qualified once in Long Beach - and suffered a broken drive shaft on Lap 3.

I was at that race, and the car looked even worse first-hand. Parts of the bodywork could be seen literally flying off the car down Shoreline Drive...

TW

[Henri Greuter]

As far as I remember, this Ligier was a pioneer nonetheless.

dhe curved edges if the side pod that sweep upwards were not seen yet in Indycar racing and even the Americans called similar constructions on other cars the "Ligier Whoops", named after the car that had them first.


Henri Greuter

[jde]

Originally posted by theunions
Whatever happened to Pimm and Chandler?

A quick Google search did not yield any proof, but for some reason, I was thinking he was killed a few yrs ago. Possibly a private plane crash?

(I could be mixing him up with Chip Mead, who also received Red Roof Inns $$$ from Jim Trueman in the '80's.)

-jde

[theunions]

Originally posted by jde


A quick Google search did not yield any proof, but for some reason, I was thinking he was killed a few yrs ago. Possibly a private plane crash?

(I could be mixing him up with Chip Mead, who also received Red Roof Inns $$$ from Jim Trueman in the '80's.)

Both Pimm and Chandler are supposedly alive and kicking. Mead died within days of Alan Kulwicki and thus was widely ignored by the US media.

[FLB]

The last I've found about Chandler is that he raced in ARS (Indy Lights) in 1988. He was attempting a comeback.

[fines]

Originally posted by FLB
The last I've found about Chandler is that he raced in ARS (Indy Lights) in 1988. He was attempting a comeback.

He did all but four laps in the season opener at Phoenix until wiped out by a race stopping five-car crash on the home straight; couldn't take the restart and that was that.

[conjohn]

Ed Pimm also did the Daytona 500 and Goodwrench 500 at Rockingham for Curb Motorsport at the beginning of 1988, after having done 4 races for Curb the previous year.

I can't find any trace of Pimm in ARS in 1988 - at least not in the statistics by Phil Harms at motorsport.com, so appearantly these are not complete....

[jde]

Originally posted by theunions
Both Pimm and Chandler are supposedly alive and kicking. Mead died within days of Alan Kulwicki and thus was widely ignored by the US media.

Thanks. I must be getting mixed up with someone else, as I was thinking this has been in the last 5-6 yrs.

-jde

[Kekefan]

Originally posted by Rob Ryder

Here it is Pete..


(from Autocourse : CART - The First 20 Years)

Michael Chandler is driving the Ligier here
and not Kevin Cogan.

[T54]

I was a personal witness of this incredible mess, on both sides of the Atlantic. Guy Ligier and his arrogant and pretentious crew actually believed that this car would "clean up the inferior US and Brit machines". Their team manager (can't or won't remember his name) was on the telephone with me as they were using me as a translator, and was incredibly arrogant and acting superior, very much like Jean Rondeau was.
Indeed, the car was a royal piece of cr*p and self-disintagrated while running, while being utterly uncompetitive. The car briefly resided at the Gurney shops on South Broadway, and I remember seing Phil Remington shaking his head in utter silence... that was good enough to decide how good or bad the car was. Michael Chandler was a very good driver but could not do much with this converted turd. As far as Mike Curb, he was as straight as the Coupe des Alpes circuit. Not a fellow to entrust with your wallet, even empty.
Whatever happened to that assembly of recycled junk, it belongs to the bin.

[Pils1989]

I think I like it but I would need to see other pictures first

[T54]

I think I like it but I would need to see other pictures first

It will go fine with your Cadillac Cimarron.

[fausto]

found this:
http://forums.atlasf...&threadid=34752

[indyricefan13]

Originally posted by T54
I was a personal witness of this incredible mess, on both sides of the Atlantic. Guy Ligier and his arrogant and pretentious crew actually believed that this car would "clean up the inferior US and Brit machines". Their team manager (can't or won't remember his name) was on the telephone with me as they were using me as a translator, and was incredibly arrogant and acting superior, very much like Jean Rondeau was.
Indeed, the car was a royal piece of cr*p and self-disintagrated while running, while being utterly uncompetitive. The car briefly resided at the Gurney shops on South Broadway, and I remember seing Phil Remington shaking his head in utter silence... that was good enough to decide how good or bad the car was. Michael Chandler was a very good driver but could not do much with this converted turd. As far as Mike Curb, he was as straight as the Coupe des Alpes circuit. Not a fellow to entrust with your wallet, even empty.
Whatever happened to that assembly of recycled junk, it belongs to the bin.

The cars also looks like a piece of crap. It certainly was worthless. Did have the legendary no.98 though!!

[gbl]

Personal opinion, I actually like the look of the car but I'm a hopeless 70's and 80's turbo fan anyway.

[William Dale Jr]

Originally posted by T54
Whatever happened to that assembly of recycled junk, it belongs to the bin.

Sorry to drag up an old thread, but I couldn't find this question answered anywhere. Is this it (in the last photo)?

http://www.mikecurb....eum.cfm?PAGE=03

I stumbled across the website of the "Curb Museum for Music and Motorsports" whilst I was searching for information on Kevin Cogan. It would have to be the real thing, wouldn't it? Why would anyone want to build a replica...

[ghinzani]

My what a lot of cars in his collection, he certainly splashed the money about, even if it was'nt his. Everything from sprint cars to more modern IRL cars. I'd say as theres an 84 and 85 Eagle as well as a 85 Lola then that probably is the 84 Ligier.

[jde]

Where's the museum located? The site doesn't appear to make mention of such info...

-jde

[David M. Kane]

Mike Curb is a record producer, do I need to say more...

[David M. Kane]

Michael Chandler is the son of the late Otis Chandler, the editor and owner of the LA Times and a great car buff.

[John B]

Not sure how much direct relation there was, but presumably the effort expended in CART didn't do the F1 operation any good, as it steadily declined from being a frontrunner/title contender as 1982 through 1984 progressed......

[theunions]

Originally posted by jde
Where's the museum located? The site doesn't appear to make mention of such info...

I would suppose at the Curb Agajanian BGN team shop, though the team's site doesn't even mention specifically where that is (Mooresville?).

[David M. Kane]

Mooresville is in North Carolina and it is the home of several NASCAR Teams.

[Rob G]

Originally posted by jde
Where's the museum located? The site doesn't appear to make mention of such info...

-jde

I had to do a little hunting, but apparently it's in Kannapolis, NC. This article explains what's happening with the current building and where it will be relocated. Scroll down just below halfway and look for the headline that states "Last Major Pillowtex Building is Now Making Way for Campus".

[swede917]

Originally posted by T54
As far as Mike Curb, he was as straight as the Coupe des Alpes circuit. Not a fellow to entrust with your wallet, even empty.

There was a story of Mike Curb renting a fully furnished house in West LA to Ted Titmus a Formula Atlantic Team owner at the time, at some point these two got into some dispute over rent or racing and Ted had his lads from the race team take all the furnishings from the house and sold them. Which is not a big story except Mike Curb was Leutinant Governor of California at the time, Ted would later be in and out of jail on numerous charges, this event probably not helping his cause. "2 peas in a pod"

As far as the Ligier goes I remember being at Phoenix in 1984, talking to Michael Chandler who was having a hard time trying to talk to the Ligier boys about Tire stagger, cross weight and spring rates, not that the car ran long enough to make changes. Also Bruno Giacomelli was spending a lot of time talking to the Ligier boys, Bruno was running the 83 Theodore and like the Ligier was a DNQ.

[arttidesco]

Just out of curiosity the Ligier Indy project was labelled LC02 does any one know if there was / and  what become of, LC01 ?

[Henri Greuter]

Just out of curiosity the Ligier Indy project was labelled LC02 does any one know if there was / and  what become of, LC01 ?

I think that never existed. Ligier had the habit of using uneven numbers within their type registrations of F1 cars:  JS5, JS7 etc.

Cars for other racing series had even numbers within their type registration. (Think about the JS2 Le Mans cars)

[arttidesco]

Thanks Henri 

[Henri Greuter]

Thanks Henri 

Beware, I'm not sure if my answer is the right one to be honest. But it is the best I can think about.

Maybe a true Ligier fan knows more on this?