87 replies to this topic

[dbltop]

I just watched a documentary ( short 15 min.) on the making of the movie Lemans. It showed a camera car which was actually entered in the race. This short film claims that the Porsche 908 finished 2nd in class and 8th overall Unfortunately the film does not mention who the drivers were and how they kept their cool while fuel was added and tires and film were changed during pit stops!! This film also showed the aftermath of David Piper's crash but never mentioned how he was. I know he ended up losing a leg but the documentary never mentioned this either, rather, it tacitly implied that he had not survived. The car was in 2 pieces of twisted metal by the look of it.

[Geza Sury]

David Piper only had broken his leg due to the accident, but the wound wasn't sterilized properly, thus oil from the car left in it. It became infected, and this turned out only when they removed the plaster and the bandage. The infection became so severe, that Piper's lower leg had to be amputated.

[Vitesse2]

The Porsche 908 camera car was entered by Solar Productions and driven by Herbert Linge and Jonathan Williams. Rob Slotemaker and Mike Hailwood were also entered in the car, but did not drive. It actually finished 9th on the road, but was not classified in the final results as it had not completed sufficient distance.

Full details of the 1970 result here:

http://user.tninet.s...iq291w/1970.htm

You'll also notice that Solar were refused an entry for a certain Mr S McQueen and a Mr J Stewart!

[SteveB2]

Did the documentary you watch have the interview with the director or producer where he was discussing how well the car was doing? I don't remember what time it was, but someone mentioned to him (the director) that the 908 was doing very well and if they stopped pitting to change film they had a good chance at a class win. I can't remember how long he said he pondered it. He said it came down to balancing out as trophy in his office against not having the film completed. The businessman in him made the final decision.

[Andre Acker]

Hi TNF people !

Yesterday I saw "Le Mans" again.
It must be the 136th time !

A detail caught my attention : with 34 minutes and 10 seconds into the film (my DVD copy), two Porsches are shown passing, reflected on a fireman's helmet.
The cars are from the 1969 race, no doubt, one of them the # 64 that arrived in second place.

McQueen was present at the 1969 race with a filming crew, preparing for the next year.
For sure, they filmed something.

What happened to this material ?
Who should we contact to try to see it ?

The "La Ronde Infernale" documentary about Le Mans 1969 is very good but I would bet that the professional McQueen's material must be far superior.

VBR.
André Acker.

[Arjan de Roos]

Hi Andre,

In another thread (I cannot find it, so sorry ) we discussed the reels made in 1970 for this movie, during the race. Some fellow TNF-ers asked where these reels (many, many unused) had gone. Some people had a lead, but all dead ends unfortunately. As you know for 'Le Mans' they shot so much film not only during the race but also afterwards, mainly due to the absence of an exact story line. As even those could not be traced (even at the film company!)...

Maybe our dear moderator can merge some of the Le Mans and McQueen threads?

[Ralliart]

As Mike Parkes was the racing advisor on the film and was there when it was edited, perhaps someone could contact the his estate to get a lead.

[Henri Greuter]

I heard the story that there was a lot of film made with the intention to use it within the movie. But that almost everything was worthless fur use since the cars had changed so dramatically within a single year of time, primarily because of the appearances of the 917K's and the 512's.


Henri

[Andre Acker]

Thanks everybody !

It wolud be great to have this 1969 material available for a documentary ...

VBR.
André Acker.

[cjpani]

I found something interesting while surfing in ebay:

LE MANS 1970 PROMOTIONAL 16mm COLOUR FILM.

FASCINATING PIECE OF ARCHIVE FILM ENTITLED:

LE MANS, THE RACE, THE MOVIE

PRODUCED TO PUBLICISE THE 1971 'LE MANS' FILM STARRING STEVE McQUEEN THIS FILM USES FOOTAGE SHOT DURING THE 1970 RACE ALONG WITH RARE BEHIND THE SCENES FOOTAGE TO PROMOTE THE UPCOMING BLOCKBUSTER. APPROX. 15 MINUTES LONG & FEATURING EXTENSIVE FOOTAGE OF BOTH THE RACE ITSELF & STEVE McQUEEN RACING AND/OR FILMING, AS YOU WOULD EXPECT THE PORSCHE 917 & FERRARI FEATURE HEAVILY. DEREK BELL ALSO ADDS COMMENTARY TO FILM AT TIMES WHERE HE OR McQUEEN ARE DRIVING.

THIS AN ORIGINAL & UNIQUE PIECE OF FILM FOR ANY SERIOUS McQUEEN, LE MANS OR PORSCHE 917 ENTHUSIAST OR COLLECTOR GIVING NOT ONLY A RARE INSIGHT INTO THE MAKING OF THE FILM BUT ALSO A TASTE OF WHAT LE MANS WAS LIKE DURING ONE OF IT'S MOST EXCITING PERIODS.

THIS FILM HAS BEEN RUN & PLAYS WITH NO BREAKS OR DAMAGE

SEE BELOW FOR FURTHER FRAMES TAKEN FROM THE FILM

http://cgi.ebay.com/...1QQcmdZViewItem


cj

[philippe7]

"Le Mans" is showing tonight on the french TV . It's on the franco-german "Arte" channel, so it might be played in Deutschland also at some time ...

I haven't seen the movie again since it came out on the big screen and I went to see it as a 14 years old, so you bet I'm looking forward to the evening !

[275 GTB-4]

Maybe Chad McQueen could shed some light on what happened to his Fathers film

[Bruno]

to night in France:

http://www.arte.tv/f...rammes/242.html

[AAA-Eagle]

Thanks. Also some documentary films about Porsche will be shown. Le Mans movie is scheduled to be replayed on Tuesday at 00.55 CET.

[Jager]

Many sources indicate the Porsche 908 camera car wasn't classified at the end of the race due to a lack of distance.

However, I recall reading somewhere that infact the camera car was never an official entry in the first instance (and only reluctantly allowed to start by the ACO) and wasn't expected to finish, let alone challenge for a top 10 position.

Which is right - was the 908 an "official entrant" that could have challenged for a class win ?

[Vitesse2]

The film company of Steve McQueen had entered his Porsche 908 as a serious entry, driven by Linge/Williams and they had unobtrusively been filming things as they raced, with cameras mounted fore and aft, built into the car. A long delay early in the race when the starter failed put them out of the running and stops for camera loading and suchlike put them too far back to be classified, but nevertheless they were still running at the end of the 24 hours.

Motor Sport, July 1970, p701

As the car carried a number perfectly in sequence on the entry list (29), I can't see any reason why it wouldn't be an official entry. And of course there's a precedent for cars running hors de compétition: the 1963 Rover-BRM, which carried a double zero number. The ACO would surely have followed that precedent if necessary.

[AMICALEMANS]

all cars in 24 hours of Le Mans were official entry, even the 00 Rover... But this one was not bale to be follow the regulation that is why this car was not able to be oficially classified.
The Solar Porsche, the Vaillante Lola and the Leader Panoz was under the regulation.

[B Squared]

This is what I found for the movie on SearchBB. For those interested, "LeMans" has just started on TCM (Turner Classic Movies).

Brian

[SWB]

The car was 908-013, and carried three movie cameras, which added a lot of weight not to mention the impaired aerodynamics. It was a pretty heroic effort of racing and film making imo.

Steve

[SEdward]

A fun and trivial exercise: can anyone figure out which takes of the opening couple of laps - surely the highlight of the whole film - are from the actual race, and which ones are from the staged shoots between practice sessions?

Edward

[Formula Once]

The 15-minute Le Mans documentary is for sale at www.autosportsltd.com (Behind Le Mans). And if you want to know anything about the making of Le Mans buy the book A French Kiss With Death from them as well - it is simply superb. I see they have a good deal now where you get the book and the DVD. Trust me it is worth the money.

[Bjorn Kjer]

Was the raw material for the film done in 1970 and then made ready for launching in 1971 ?

[andydolermo]

Edward... it is fairly easy to understand which footage is from the actual race and which is shoot for the movie. The gulf 917s had in the movie the race numbers made in a different font from the race. Wider in the race, narrower in the movie.







Also, car #18 had the tail painted black in the race, and yellow in the movie, the rear spoiler were aluminum color in the movie, red in the race. In the race the car had extra mirror on the roof but didn`t had the extra mirror in the movie. Also... am I wrong or the color in the #18 car of the movie was a lot darker than the yellow of the usual AAW car? Finally... do anyone know why the sound of car #18 in the movie is different than other 917s? Was it just a mistake in the sounds of the movie or there was something different in that car`s engine/exhaust? For example I read that one of the Ferrari 512L at the mans 1970 (the real race) broke the rev limitator and that made the car sound like a Matra out of the bends

[andydolermo]

Ooops sorry the picture of the actual race version didn`t worked... here we go:

[Barry Boor]

Strange! You would have thought the continuity department would have got those things right, wouldn't you?

[fines]

The "continuity department" is mostly only one person, and bound to overlook a thing or two. Also, I believe it has become a "sport" amongst Hollywood's continuity props to leave a bait or two for the anoraxic (I love that word! ) film buffs to salivate over.;)

[bschenker]

Programm for 30.06.1970

[markpde]

Originally posted by fines
The "continuity department" is mostly only one person, and bound to overlook a thing or two. Also, I believe it has become a "sport" amongst Hollywood's continuity props to leave a bait or two for the anoraxic (I love that word! ) film buffs to salivate over.;)

I've recently had to explain to an Australian relative, who currently lives in Papua New Guinea, what 'anorak' means (like, me, for example...) - now I'll have to tell her about 'anoraxic' too!

[Bjorn Kjer]

Sorry , but I have to ask again : Does anyone know when the filming started , and when it was finished ?

[bschenker]

I think the start was after the Zandvoort GP, the document from 30.06.1970 say "Shootingday; 8th", about the end, the only thing I can say Moser was back in Lugano just bevor, or after the Britîsh GP.

Otherways I have no idea how was integratet the 24 hours race from 13/14. 06.1970.
Moser started direktly from Zandvoort 21.06.1970 to Le Mans for work on the movie.

[Bjorn Kjer]

Thanks for that info , i guess then some filming before and after the "live" race and then sorting out over the winter to a 1971 spring presantationin ? (I have the DVD of the film but no infos on dates or years!)

[LOLE]

Last August, at the Nürburgring, I had a nice chat with Mrs Piper.

I asked her if she was present at Le Mans when her husband had his terrible crash with his Porsche 917 (which resulted in the los of his leg).
She was and told me the following anecdote:

“In the pit lane, my husband was watching the cars racing by. He was standing against the wooden pit wall, arms crossed under his chin. I was sitting behind him , one level up and at a certain moment I saw a young slim blond girl taking place next to my husband and they started chatting. Suddenly she laid her arm over David’s back so I shouted-hey, stop it, this is my husband!- The woman turned her face to me and than I saw it was just Steve McQueen….

[Phil Rainford]

Poster from the Le Mans museum

Must be the French spelling





PAR

[Stirling]

Sorry , but I have to ask again : Does anyone know when the filming started , and when it was finished ?

'Principal photography on The 24 Hours of Le Mans, later shortened to just Le Mans, was set to begin on june 7, a week prior to the actual race. However a massive amount of preproduction work had been undertaken by Solar throughout 1969 and into 1970 to prepare the stage on which the actors and drivers would perform. One of the first people to arrive in Le Mans on behalf of Solar early in the Spring of 1970 was German production manager, Hubert Froelich.' [p. 258]

'The filming of Le Mans [was] scheduled to last three months.' [p. 399].

'The film finally wrapped in late November, two months past schedule and $1.5 million over budget - a pittance in today's cinematic world. There was no traditional wrap party. People just drifted away. On the final day of shooting, Robert Hauser and his wife were involved in a serious automobile accident in which they both received minor injuries, an ironic and unfortunate ending to his involvement in the production.' [p. 400]

All quotes from the book:

[Michael Ferner]

'The film finally wrapped in late November, two months past schedule and $1.5 million over budget - a pittance in today's cinematic world.

I doubt that $1.5m would have been regarded "a pittance" in 1970... When was that book written?

Edited by Michael Ferner, 18 June 2010 - 08:43.

[simonlewisbooks]

Sometime ago Kurt Russell was interviewed on British TV (I think it was Graham Norton's show) and it was put to him that while a lot of his movies bombed at the box office, they later did well on video and then even better on dvd and have since became rather fondly remembered 'cult classics'.
In short they 'lasted' despite the inauspicious start.
This scenario also seems to apply in spades to LE MANS. Most of the film review books pan the movie, only really mention the fact it cost a fortune and broke the production company, had little real story , was the indulgence of a major star etc etc etc. And yet 40 years on it's not only avidly discussed by the likes of us but has recently spawned a book, an entire clothing range and a sort of mini-industry of prints posters and other memorabilia that surely no-one involved would have dared imagine in the painful wake of it's release!
It would be interesting to know if, with all the licensing deals and royalties , it's actually now, finally, made a profit?

[Alan Cox]

I doubt that $1.5m would have been regarded "a pittance" in 1970... When was that book written?

1999

[Arjan de Roos]

....... it's actually now, finally, made a profit?

Actually a lot of people in the past years have profitted.

[Michael Ferner]

1999

Well, I guess that explains it...

[Giraffe]

Anyone at this years Le Mans could have been fooled into thinking the film had just been released. Jackets, teeshirts, posters, caps & 911s with their rear windows full of McQueen giving his two-finger salute wherever you looked.
And how many Monaco Heuers have been sold by McQueen & the film? That's primarily why I bought mine some years back.

Edited by Giraffe, 18 June 2010 - 09:39.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Though how much of that is down to the film and how much to the McQueen image.

[Giraffe]

Though how much of that is down to the film and how much to the McQueen image.

It's down to McQueen's image in the film.

[Phil Rainford]

Anyone at this years Le Mans could have been fooled into thinking the film had just been released. Jackets, teeshirts, posters, caps & 911s with their rear windows full of McQueen giving his two-finger salute wherever you looked.
And how many Monaco Heuers have been sold by McQueen & the film? That's primarily why I bought mine some years back.

Also with Gulf sponsorship on the Lola/Astons at Le Mans .............it has given extra impetus to the 70s feel

PAR

[Giraffe]

Also with Gulf sponsorship on the Lola/Astons at Le Mans .............it has given extra impetus to the 70s feel

PAR

Very clever marketing that appears to be cross-generational. (Although I cannot remember when I last saw a Gulf service station).

Edited by Giraffe, 18 June 2010 - 11:01.

[Arjan de Roos]

The "Le Mans" movie is by the years moving from the cult status that it once had to a rare racing document like "Grand Prix". Disregarding the plot, it does document Le Mans racing as it was in 1970's quite well and I enjoy to watch all the 'real life' scenes in it as well as the staged racing scenes like the start.
I suppose the film does help Le Mans and its organisers in a way. It would be a great gesture if the proposal to rename the Boulevard des Italiens (the road running behind the grand stands) into Boulevard Steve McQueen would materialize, as he is so much linked to the event.

[nmansellfan]

Very clever marketing that appears to be cross-generational. (Although I cannot remember when I last saw a Gulf service station).

Same here. There was one in Henley in Arden near Warwick up until at least a year ago, but yesterday coming back from a tour of the Red Bull factory (a great day!) it had been replaced by a Murco service station. Does Gulf have a presence in the UK any more?

[Giraffe]

McQueen died in 1980 at the age of 50. A smart career move when you think about it as to some degree his image remains as forever young. I can hardly imagine an 80 year old 'King of cool' as he would have been were he still alive today.

[Keir]

McQueen died in 1980 at the age of 50. A smart career move when you think about it as to some degree his image remains as forever young. I can hardly imagine an 80 year old 'King of cool' as he would have been were he still alive today.

Steve might disagree with that notion. Alive and old beats dead and cool anytime.

[Stirling]

Old age comes to us all - unless you're unlucky.

[Geoff E]

(Although I cannot remember when I last saw a Gulf service station).

As it happens, I used this one just the other day as a change from the usual supermarket http://tinyurl.com/2g7z27x