16 replies to this topic

[JDeRosa]

I'm sure this has been covered before, but I just wanted to hear your opinions.
I found this on a WRC site.

21/01/2002 11:56:10
Formula 1 superstar David Coulthard has praised the talents of his World Rally counterparts, saying he would rather be up against a Grand Prix rival than a rally driver. The Scot, who is team leader for F1 giants McLaren, was speaking at the launch of the team's 2002 car in Barcelona. A television programme broadcast in the UK last week said rally drivers were the best drivers in the world and when Coulthard was asked what he thought about the programme's claim, the 11-time Grand Prix race winner said the top WRC drivers were indeed special. "If you were asking me about one of my rivals in Formula 1, I would be all defensive, knowing I can get the job done," said Coulthard. "But to be honest the rally guys are a bit special. I'm not saying they all are, but at the pinnacle, all the good guys in the top cars, there is no question they are exceptionally talented," He added: "I would rather take my chances in a wager against a GP driver than a rally driver."»
David seems to be right. In a Jordan, Mcrae was just 1.9 secs slower than Martin Brundle; In a Williams Tommi Makinen was just 2,0 secs slower than the best time of the day, wich was Mika Hakkinen's. Few drivers upcoming from F3000 manage to be so quick in their first drive in a F1 (I guess only Raikkonen was capable of doing that).


I don't think you can really compare. Sure there are similarities, but it'd be like saying that a 100m runner will definitely succeed in the 200m. I do believe that both championships harvest the best driving talent on the planet. They are the two series I closely follow and love them both.

What do you guys think??

[speedy]

I wouldn't make a straight comparison at all - they both are great at what they are doing. In rally you drive all the time against the clock sometimes in the most terrible conditions, but you don't have your rivals to take care of. In F1 you have that against the clock part, but the best part for us spectators is the fight man vs man. In tv the rally looks more spectacular, and the incar shots really give you a hint of the dangers and speed rallying offers. I like 'em both, perhaps a bit more of rallying, but then again I'm a Finn

[Peter Perfect]

Average age of F1 drivers? 20-30
Average age of rally drivers? 30

Rallying seems to be one of those sports where natural talent can't make up for experience.
Just look at Sebastian Loeb, he's being talked about as the hot new driver and he's 27! In F1 terms he's past the 'young driver' stage and is into the 'if he doesn't start doing well now then he's out' stage.

I also think that racing on a variety of surfaces on roads that you have to rely on your co-driver to describe to you marks them out as better drivers. F1 drivers, for all their speed, are nowadays more about technical feedback than pure driving ability. Rally drivers are still learning their trade, in terms of driving, into their 30's.

[Toyoter]

All I know is I watched most of the rally in Monaco on Speedvision last week and I damn near got carsick just from watching the in-car shots on TV! I have no idea how the navigator can sit there and read his notebook while being jerked around like that without throwing up on himself.

[Dsilence]

Originally posted by Toyoter
All I know is I watched most of the rally in Monaco on Speedvision last week and I damn near got carsick just from watching the in-car shots on TV! I have no idea how the navigator can sit there and read his notebook while being jerked around like that without throwing up on himself.

It was about 5 years ago working as a ticket boy for a fair.. they had a rally simulator there a big moving (hydraulic) rally car with indoor screeen showing a rally car incam as car moved accordingly to the road and bumps

As I was a staff member they let me ride it as much as I wanted
well after 3 rides a row.. I didn't feel so well and nearly did throw-up
and one ride was only about 2-3 min (and forces probably much lighter in the simulator, that for real) so sitting in the car as a note reader is a task indeed..

[mel]

This is kinda similar to the debate in theStreet race thread.

[tac5]

can anyone post pics or something about when tommi and mcrae tested f1 cars?? it sounds really interesting!!!!!!!

[Crazy Canuck]

f1 drivers have balls this big - .
rally drivers have balls this big - .


CC

[JForce]

Having driven in some rally's I can say that it does indeed take some special skills to be good. But there is one thing to remember:
According to FIA regulations, the average speed on any WRC rally stage is not allowed to exceed 110mph (approx, give or take 10mph), which is a fair bit slow than F1. SO it takes a different set of skills. I agree though, that a rally driver could become fast in an F1 car faster than an F1 driver could in a WRC car.

You should watch the programme Jeremy Clarkson did called "speed". It had an episode on drivers, had Schumi, Golin, etc...very interesting....

[holiday]

Originally posted by JDeRosa
I do believe that both championships harvest the best driving talent on the planet. They are the two series I closely follow and love them both.

What do you guys think??

As much as I appreciate Rally driving, I firmly disagree. The best driving talent on earth you find - of course - in motorcycling!
The amount of driving skill necessary is at least equal to that one of Rallying and those guys are taking FAR more risks than car drivers. A crash in f1 and Rally may result in a broken suspension/axis, in motorcycling usually in a broken collarbone.

What was Schumacher recently saying: Surely, I would love driving motorcycles... on a straight.

[Makarias]

They are too different to compare really. Where would WRCs ever come near a 110 mph stage average? The Safari rally?


100 and 200 meter sprinters are overhyped though.

[silver fan]

The top guys in both professions I reckon would be pretty close. As far as rally drivers are concerned there are a couple of points to remember. One they compete against the clock over a series of stages on their own. F1 drivers compete against other drivers fighting for the same bit of road at the same time. So how would a rally driver go against guys with a lifetime of racecraft. I suspect actually learning to drive the car fast would be the easy bit, doing it in a crowd is another matter. The second thing is a rally driver needs only to concentrate on driving the car over a short stage of a few kilometres. F1 drivers have to concentrate continually over the course of 300km's. In both cases a lapse in concentration will have them off. The fact that F1 drivers have no respite over a mutch longer period tips the balance in their favour me thinks.

[dgsg]

RIP Group B

[ehagar]

Originally posted by holiday


As much as I appreciate Rally driving, I firmly disagree. The best driving talent on earth you find - of course - in motorcycling!
The amount of driving skill necessary is at least equal to that one of Rallying and those guys are taking FAR more risks than car drivers. A crash in f1 and Rally may result in a broken suspension/axis, in motorcycling usually in a broken collarbone.

What was Schumacher recently saying: Surely, I would love driving motorcycles... on a straight.

Riders, not drivers! A breed apart! I think you can't compare...

What type of motorcycle racing do you refer to? Road racing? Desert Rally raids? Motorcross (Motorcross is bloody physical!)? Speedway?

I think there are probably more transferable skills in motorcycle racing than in the various forms of car racing. Look at the number of top level riders that did dirt track riding and other types of beast taming... Hell, McCoy did Speedway GP for crissakes.... and it shows in his crazy riding style...

Plus no traction control.... would make no sense for throttle jockeys... some riders style is going sideways, eg. Ben Bostrom or Nicky Hayden...

[Brian O Flaherty]

Originally posted by silver fan
The top guys in both professions I reckon would be pretty close. As far as rally drivers are concerned there are a couple of points to remember. One they compete against the clock over a series of stages on their own. F1 drivers compete against other drivers fighting for the same bit of road at the same time. So how would a rally driver go against guys with a lifetime of racecraft. I suspect actually learning to drive the car fast would be the easy bit, doing it in a crowd is another matter. The second thing is a rally driver needs only to concentrate on driving the car over a short stage of a few kilometres. F1 drivers have to concentrate continually over the course of 300km's. In both cases a lapse in concentration will have them off. The fact that F1 drivers have no respite over a mutch longer period tips the balance in their favour me thinks.

About the 300Km thing. The F1 driver is doing between 45 and 81 laps of the same stretch of track and he probably knew it already from previous visits.

The rally driver doesn't do laps, it is all different road and he may have only seen it once the day before in a road car for race note purposes. And of course on the road things may change, like spectators as Sainz found out last year


Now to digress
I remember Hakkinen watching as Carloz Sainz power-slid his 800bhp McLaren into the garage after testing it. Hakkinen was dumb-founded at the car control and asked how the hell he manged to do it. Hakkinen didn't realise that Sainz used to have almost that much power under his back-side in an S4 Quattro rally car.

As DC correctly said in that programme, those Rally guys really are special animals and I believe that their car control is superior to that of an F1 drivers because it NEEDS to be for their discipline.

Both sets of drivers have different qualities but I agree with JForce when he says that Rally drivers can be competitive in an F1 car more quickly than an F1 driver in a rally car. Surely that says something about the 2 disciplines. Remember Martin Brundle in rally ?

[AS110]

I think the biggest advantage the rally driver has is the ability to read road conditions.Being able to glance at a piece of gravel and guage it's depth,size of stone etc,holes,soft spots,at those speeds.This means they can go fast anywhere,anytime,in any vehicle quicker than other motor sports drivers.Any non tarmac motorcycle rider developes this ability too.

[speedy]

The Arctic Rally in Lapland Finland was finished yesterday - JJ Lehto has participated the event many times before and now he was leading the N-class before slipping off the road. It took so long to dig the car out of snow, that JJ finished there, but he showed a very impressive pace with a 4wd rally car that far. At that moment he was lying 8th in the overall classification. The many times Finnish N-class champion Jouko Puhakka who won the N-class said that JJ's pace gave the rally men something to think about