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Practice for the 1970 Spanish GP


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#1 CSGPR

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Posted 26 January 2002 - 15:18

Hi

Can somebody please tell me exactly what went wrong regarding the Practice for the 1970 Spanish Grand Prix because it was a complete mix-up. Not even “Motor Sport” had a full time table available for the readers a full month later. If some one has the full time table and know what went wrong then I’ve would be very pleased. Thank You :confused:

Christian

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#2 Roger Clark

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Posted 26 January 2002 - 22:12

Autosport published full tables of practice times. It seems that he whole meeting was chaotic with the orgnisers changing the rules as they went along sometimes on the directive of the CSI. The root of the problem was that there were 22 competitive cars and only 16 possible starters. some entries were guaranteed a start, others were not. Separate sessions were held for the two groups and nobody seemed sure which counted for grid positions. In the end the first practice session, Friday morning, did not count, except for Surtees, Hulme and Beltoise who did not practive on Friday afternoon. Most people set fastest time on Saturday s this did not make much difference.

Against the starting grid, autosport said: "The times for grid positions were taken from sessions not counting for qualification and so bear no relation to overall practice times"

Clear as mud!

#3 scheivlak

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Posted 26 January 2002 - 23:10

Just to know what we are talking about:

Start grid/qualifying info according to Forix:
1 7 Jack Brabham Brabham/Ford 1'23.90 -
2 5 Denny Hulme McLaren/Ford 1'24.10 0.20
3 1 Jackie Stewart March/Ford 1'24.20 0.30
4 4 J.P.Beltoise Matra 1'24.46 0.56
5 10 Pedro Rodriguez BRM 1'24.50 0.60
6 9 Chris Amon March/Ford 1'24.65 0.75
7 2 Jacky Ickx Ferrari 1'24.70 0.80
8 3 Jochen Rindt Lotus/Ford 1'24.80 0.90
9 22 Henri Pescarolo Matra 1'24.90 1.00
10 15 Jackie Oliver BRM 1'25.00 1.10
11 11 Bruce McLaren McLaren/Ford 1'25.00 1.10
12 8 John Surtees McLaren/Ford 1'25.20 1.30
13 12 Piers Courage De Tomaso/Ford 1'25.40 1.50
14 16 J.Servoz-Gavin March/Ford 1'25.46 1.56
15 6 Graham Hill Lotus/Ford 1'25.54 1.64
16 18 Mario Andretti March/Ford 1'25.70 1.80
17 24 Rolf Stommelen Brabham/Ford - -
Not qualified
18 20 A.de Adamich McLaren/Alfa Romeo 1'25.15 1.25
19 19 John Miles Lotus/Ford 1'25.30 1.40
20 14 Jo Siffert March/Ford 1'25.38 1.48
21 21 George Eaton BRM 1'26.40 2.50
22 23 Alex Soler-Roig Lotus/Ford 1'25.8 1.90

Does this mean that Surtees, Courage, Servoz-Gavin, Hill, Andretti and Stommelen had a guarantee status and the non quals didn't? Or did the non quals score their times in sessions that didn't count?
Who were the non guarantees that did make it?
How come Rolf Stommelen didn't have any qualification time and still started?

Or are there other data than these?

#4 stevew

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Posted 27 January 2002 - 01:34

Here's a quote from Mike Lang's Grand Prix! Vol. 2 1966 to 1973:
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"Owing to the large entry, the organisers decided to restrict the number of starters to sixteen which, after allowing for World Champions and/or number 1 drivers of each of the 'works' teams who were guaranteed starting places, left six places available for the remaining twelve drivers to fight over."
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(stevew again)
Lang's report goes on to mention a lot of "confusion" about how many drivers could practice, qualify and even start the race, right up until the actual start itself.

Who knows? Maybe Bernie himself witnessed all this "decision making" and decided to change things for the future...

?

#5 Roger Clark

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Posted 27 January 2002 - 19:05

Stommelen did practice he was first reserve and started when Courage's car couldn't be repaired in time. THe times published by Forix are the same as Autosport had for their starting grid, but are different from their tables of practice times. some practice sessions decided which of the qualifiers would race, others counted for grid positions. The organisers seem to have changed their minds about which was which several times over the weekend.

When mike Lang says their was confusion about how many would start even up to the start of the race he is literally correct. The 20 surviving cars all lined up on the grid were brought in to remove the four non-qualifiers.

#6 sat

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Posted 27 January 2002 - 23:45

Stommelen's times:

Friday : 1:26,2
Saturay: 1st session 1:25,10
2nd session 1:25,01

#7 Schummy

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Posted 31 January 2002 - 05:00

In that time, there was a technical recommendation about only 16 cars could race in Jarama circuit, for safety reasons (?).

It's somewhat interesting that 17 drivers started the race and THERE WAS an early accident involving distingished "ferraristes" Amon (this time in March) and Ickx. It was a fiery accident and one of them even got fire in his wear.

Bearing in mind the dangers of that kind of accident in F1 in those years, we can be happy neither Ickx or Amon resulted seriously injured. I had dramatic photos about the fire in a local magazine, but... those old mags were "discarded" time ago, I did have space for them :cry:

#8 Don Capps

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Posted 31 January 2002 - 07:07

As Roger has stated, all this was as clear as mud then and obviously remains so three decades later.

Even after reading a few other accounts of the race other than those already cited -- that of Rob Walker, John Blundsden, and Anthony Pritchard, it still is a tad muddy.

Naturally, the problem began long before the race. For 1970, there was the beginning of an upswing in entries after a generally lean season in 1969. The season began without an agreement in place that orgamizers and entrants both wanted -- for different reason naturally. There as a movement afoot -- even then -- for a better prize money system since the old starting money system was beginning to rapidly fade from the scene now that commercial interests were well and truly involved in GP racing. After the USGP went to a prize money only format -- and one which made it worth your while to show up and try hard -- the trend began edging in that direction

At a meeting in Geneva between the entrants and the organizers, 10 drivers were to be guaranteed starting positions at each race -- the No. 1 from each 'recognized' works team, plus all past & present WDC's:

Owen Racing Organisation -- Pedro Rodriguez;
SEFAC Ferrari -- Jacky Ickx;
Equipe Matra-Elf -- Jean-Pierre Beltoise;
Bruce McLaren Motor Racing -- Denny Hulme;
Gold Leaf Team Lotus -- Jochen Rindt;
March Engineering -- Chris Amon;
Motor Racing Developments -- Jack Brabham;
Tyrrell Racing Organisation -- Jackie Stewart;
Team Surtees -- John Surtees; and,
R.R.C. Walker/Brooke Bond Oxo Racing -- Graham Hill

Everybody else would have to qualify for places on the grid at each round of the championship.

As the late and much beloved HMN III used to say, "Practice was the usual shambles..." In this case, it was an apt description of a real mess. The first pactice session started late and that set the tone for the Friday and Saturday sessions -- okay, the first Saturday session did start on time.

The orginial grid was set at 16 starters, so with 22 showing up and 10 with guaranteed places on the grid already spoken for, some folks were not going to make The Show.

The first session saw Ickx use Michelins before reverting to Firestones -- just thought I would mention that since I had forgotten about it. Then after a a break to pick up the pieces, the second session started, which was supposed to be 30 minutes ffor those who were in the "Qualifier" group. There was supposed to be an hour session following, but it was originally cancelled and then reduced to 30 minutes.

The third session did start on time, but was just a ploy to confuse everyone. The fourth session is where all the fun really started it seems. Piers Courage, who seemed to have a time quick enough to be among the Speedy Six crashed and the de Tomaso was too damaged to be ready for The Show. Jackie Oliver was parked out on the circuit with a broken stub axle so practice was stopped to police up the bits and pieces and tow the BRM back to the pits. Then Chaos jumped up a few notches. It was announced that there would be a 30 minute session for everyone and then an additional 10 -- or 15 -- minute session for the Q-Group. Oh, yeah, the times from this session will determine who the Speedy Six are -- Have a Nice Day. Seppi Siffert was never even informed of the stipulation which now was tossed into the final session and assumed that he had put times on the board good enough to make the SS. Besides, didn't the Geneva Agreement say something about there having to tthe opportunity to qualify under "equal" conditions? And, more than a few had questions about the timing since what was being given by the organizers was often at odds with what the teams had.

So, when it was announced -- after a flurry of protests and scowls and very liberal use of the Great Australian Expletive by even those who weren't Australian -- that the Speedy Six were going to be, drumroll please: Pescarolo, Oliver, McLaren, Stommelen, Servoz-Gavin, and Andretti with Wooden Spoons being distributed to Siffert, de Adamich, Miles, Soler-Roig, and Eaton -- Courage was given an honorary Wooden Spoon since his car was rather mangled and he was never able to "qualify" during the final session.

As Keith Jackson likes to say, "Whoa, Nellie!" After much mumbling and grumbling and snarling amongst the Wooden Spoon Club, Phil Kerr circulated a petition about an hour before the grid was to form which requested that all God's Children be allowed to compete. It was signed by one and all and Kerr scurried off to deal with the officials. The WSC members then proceeded to get ready to participate since, surely, the voice of the people would be heard and respected.

But, wait! The fun is just starting. When one of the race officials parked his vehicle in front of the entrance unto the circuit from the paddock, which being blocked as the Rob Walker team was pushing their Lotus with a certain N.G. Hill aboard, made it difficult to reach the grid. The Walker crew finally managed to get to the grid only to be informed that they were Late and could not start. And besides, said The Official, That Man -- indicating our Mr. Hill, had been nasty to him. As Walker states, with a Bell Star on the whole time, it was unlikely that even had Mr. Hill wanted to verbally singe The Official, hearing his barbs would have next to impossible. The Official, now truly demonstrated that he was indeed an Official of the First Rank and there upon had six policemen descend upon Mr. Hill and yank him -- still suffering from the after-effects of the massive leg injuries from his crash at the USGP the previous Fall -- from the Lotus. They released his safety straps and literally pulled him from the car and tried to dump him on the ground.

While all this was going on, like ships from the mist, there were suddenly 20 -- well 19 since the Walker Lotus was sorta half on & half off the grid -- cars on the grid. The Guaranteed's and the SS had been joined by the WSC members save George Eaton in his green BRM -- the latter of which was used as a Hanger Queen to ensure that the other two actually made the grid. Naturally, this created a scene somewhere between Omaha Beach at H-Hour and the stands at an away match for England on the Continent. There was much punching, yelling, screaming, and lots of pushing and shoving as police dragged drivers from their cars and team members shoved them back into the cars.

Meanwhile, the CSI respresentatives were conferring and after consulting their horoscopes, the tide tables, various other documents, and giving the minor war on the grid a very wide berth, they proclaimed The Answer was "16" and not "20." And, oh, let that Mr. Hill on the grid if you haven't beat him to a pulp.

Sent Off were the WSC holders -- with the dismissal of Dr. Soler-Roig being taken very, very poorly by the assembled masses in the stands, who would have liked to see a Spaniard in the Spanish GP and were quite vocal in their dissent of the descision.

Once the race actually got underway, the crash between Ickx and Oliver created a scene which even the Marx Brothers would have been in awe of with foam everywhere, burning gasoline floating on water, drivers dodging the crashed cars and firemen and marshals -- and cars being coated in foam as they passed through the area.

As for the times given by the organizers....

1 7 Jack Brabham Brabham/Ford 1'23.90
2 5 Denny Hulme McLaren/Ford 1'24.10
3 1 Jackie Stewart March/Ford 1'24.20
4 4 J.P.Beltoise Matra 1'24.46
5 10 Pedro Rodriguez BRM 1'24.50
6 9 Chris Amon March/Ford 1'24.65
7 2 Jacky Ickx Ferrari 1'24.70
8 3 Jochen Rindt Lotus/Ford 1'24.80
9 22 Henri Pescarolo Matra 1'24.90
10 15 Jackie Oliver BRM 1'25.00 (1min24.44sec)
11 11 Bruce McLaren McLaren/Ford 1'25.00 (1min 24.54sec)
12 8 John Surtees McLaren/Ford 1'25.20
13 12 Piers Courage De Tomaso/Ford 1'25.40 (1min 24.77sec -- non-starter)
14 16 J.Servoz-Gavin March/Ford 1'25.46 (1min 24.54sec)
15 6 Graham Hill Lotus/Ford 1'25.54
16 18 Mario Andretti March/Ford 1'25.70 (1min 24.62sec)
17 24 Rolf Stommelen Brabham/Ford - - (1min 25.10sec)
Not qualified
18 20 A.de Adamich McLaren/Alfa Romeo 1'25.15
19 19 John Miles Lotus/Ford 1'25.30
20 14 Jo Siffert March/Ford 1'25.38
21 21 George Eaton BRM 1'26.40
22 23 Alex Soler-Roig Lotus/Ford 1'25.8

.... the times in bowlegs are those that Pritchard gives for the 'qualifying session' if it were better than the time used otherwise -- plus, the time for Stommelen was never 'officially' released at the time...

And just who said history was dull!

#9 Roger Clark

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Posted 31 January 2002 - 12:51

Courage was given an honorary Wooden Spoon since his car was rather mangled and he was never able to "qualify" during the final session



A minor point but I believe Corage did qualify in an earlier session, but was a non-starter because of the state of his car. Stommelen raced as first reserve.

A similar arrangement existed at the subsequent Monaco Grand Prix. Siffert did a time equal to Amon's front row time, but did not qualify!

#10 Don Capps

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Posted 31 January 2002 - 16:26

Roger, Correct as usual. The honorary Wooden Spoon was for "qualifying but not starting." Which considering that he did not participate in the final "qualifying" scramble did provoke a few arched eyebrows and more than a few questions that seemed to go unanswered along with many wondering if Spain and the CSI used a form of ordinal arrangement unbeknownst to the rest of those in this galaxy....since many were scribbling the times provided onto scraps of paper and then looking at the grid as proposed and wondering what they had missed....

And, as for as Monaco is concerned, it only proved that "CSI" did perhaps translate as "Clowns Silly Idiotic" after all....and that perhaps the term "organizer" was in need of being changed since the term was being stretched beyond any reasonable use in the current context.

Whatever was happening may have been fascinating and lively, but scarcely the way to run a series.

One cringes to imagine how all this would have been viewed had the internet existed then....and the reaction was bad enough in the days of snail mail.

#11 Schummy

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Posted 31 January 2002 - 22:14

:drunk: Yes, it was Oliver, not Amon, who got involved in that accident. It must be a case of brain fade :(  ;)

#12 Felix Muelas

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Posted 31 January 2002 - 22:30

Don,

Your contrbution above was by far the best account I have ever had the pleasure of reading about one of my home races, one of those that I attended as a curious kid clearly hooked on noises and smells...Thanks! :)

Not only you have been the catalyst of this Forum but, let me be honest, I am one of those who reads your contributions with devotion. You are an outstanding guy, Don Capps.

Un abrazo,

Felix

#13 Don Capps

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Posted 01 February 2002 - 00:48

:blush:



Hey, I just enjoy writing about this stuff and the dull, boring tripe that passes for commentary today usually leaves me cold. That is why DSJ and HNM III and BC and others who were truly Scribes hooked so many of us into the sport in the first place. What is important are the stories and the drama and the color and the details that flesh out the events -- and the Spanish race had plenty of all these and then some. Sometimes, there is a reason people remember the times of chaos and confusion and discord -- usually because they are more fun in an interesting sort of way than when things are just smurfy -- or too organized. However, it is also fascinating to realize how a Scribe make even a dull event sparkle.

#14 scheivlak

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 22:45

"Everything has happened....everything that shouldn't have happened.......all has dissolved into chaos"

"The reason is that nobody understood the rules - least of all the organisers" - Barrie Gill at the 1970 Spanish GP at Jarama with some fascinating contemparary reactions to the situation from e.g. Frank Williams, Ken Tyrrell, Mario Andretti and Jackie Stewart.

 

With some fascinating images from the chaos before the start with Jo Siffert confronting the Guardia Civil and some interesting contemporary info on the Lotus 72 on Jochen Rindt's last birthday http://www.youtube.c...h?v=jhyvCwafdFA


Edited by scheivlak, 01 December 2013 - 22:46.


#15 Emery0323

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 06:06

With some fascinating images from the chaos before the start with Jo Siffert confronting the Guardia Civil and some interesting contemporary info on the Lotus 72 on Jochen Rindt's last birthday http://www.youtube.c...h?v=jhyvCwafdFA

Putting aside the fiasco of how the grid was determined, the scenes where the cars are racing through the streams of fire extinguisher foam after the Ickx-Oliver accident are appalling.  :down:  One wonders what it would have taken for them to red-flag the race!   I reflection of the prevailing safety attitudes, I suppose.

 

I believe the fire-damaged helmet that Ickx wore that day was on the cover of his recent biography:

http://www.amazon.co...1&keywords=ickx


Edited by Emery0323, 02 December 2013 - 06:08.