311 replies to this topic

[Gary Grant]

The mention of the Tyrrell P34 in another thread got me thinking about something which may have been brought up here before, but which I know very little about; namely, how do manufacturers go about naming individual cars?

Some are obvious, such as 'FW11' standing for 'Frank Williams 11', others you can guess at (e.g. Shadow DN8 - the DN standing for Don Nichols) but why Tyrrell P34, why 'MP' for McLarens and P153 or P170 etc for BRMs? I'm sure there are many others....

I know Ligiers were given the 'JS' epithet as a tribute to Jo Schlesser - any other unusual/interesting ones?

[Mike Argetsinger]

The BT before the number in all the Brabham series cars stood for Brabham Tauranac. Ron Tauranac had been Jack Brabham's partner since way before Jack came to the UK to race. When Brabham left Cooper to start his own F-1 team in 1962, Ron Tauranac came from Australia to rejoin him as his business partner - and as the designer and engineer for the race cars.

[Frank de Jong]

Some other ones:

Matra : MS stands voor Matra Sport
March: first two characters for the year, last one for category
Surtees: TS for Team Surtees
Ensign: MN for Mo Nunn (like the MN02), N for Nunn (as in N175)
Hill: GH = Graham Hill
Mclaren MP = McLaren/project 4
Toleman TG = Toleman Group
LC Lola = Larousse Calmels

But this list will be completed by others...
(Like the CG for March.. I knew it but...)

[Barry Boor]

I cannot add much, just Connew PC1 and PC2 (PC = Peter Connew) unsurprisingly!

[Frank de Jong]

Gary, the P34 Tyrrell was, as an exception to the rule that Tyrrell just numbered its cars (the first 5 were the individual chassis numbers), the designation for Project/34. Makes one wonder what the projects 1 to 33 were...

[jarama]

Gary,

the first MP McLaren was the MP4, this acronym standing for Marlboro-Project Four.

[Gary Grant]

Thanks Frank - the March 711 makes sense now (obvious when you think about it!). Perhaps Tyrrell projects 1-33 were things like wallpapering Ken's office?;)

On a related note, does anyone know about the numbering on the Ferraris (e.g. why 156, 310 or 312?), and why do Saubers use 'C' before the car number?

[Frank de Jong]

Ferrari uses its numbering mostly related to capacity (either total or per cilinder) and number of cilinders.
312: 3 litres, 12 cilinders
246: 2,4 litres, 6 cilinders
156: 1,5 litres, 6 cilinders
1512: 1,5 litres, 12 cilinders
etc.
640, 641 etc: internal project numbers
But lately they make a mess of it...

[Rainer Nyberg]

On Sauber´s cars "C" stands for Christiane.
It is the wife of Peter Sauber.
CG in March, stands for Cesare Garibaldi, who was killed in an accident.

[Roger Clark]

Can anbody explain Ferrari 553 and 555?

[Zawed]

Ligier JS** JS for Jo Schlesser, the French driver killed in the Honda and who was a friend of Guy Ligier.

[Zawed]

Oh, and the CG (March) is the initials of an Italian guy (Cesare Gariboldi, or something similar) who was instrumental in bringing Leyton House March to F1 in 87/88. He died shortly afterwards, I believe.

And Rainer beat me to it, I see:p

[jarama]

Roger,

my guess is that the engine was the same than in the 500F2, enlarged to 2.5-l, hence the first 5, while 53 and 55 stands for the year they were launched.

[Wolf]

Jarama, wasnt 555 introduced in '54? And what about 735 and 625?

And can anyone enlighten me on Mercedes numbers? I'm already familiar with letters, but I don't see much of a pattern in numbers....

[Roger Clark]

Originally posted by jarama
Roger,

my guess is that the engine was the same than in the 500F2, enlarged to 2.5-l, hence the first 5, while 53 and 55 stands for the year they were launched.

The 625 was the enlarged 500. THe 553 first appeared in 1953 as a two litre, but its engine was different from the 500's. during 1954 Ferrari used their parts bin to produce a bewildering variety of engines.

Tte 625 is easy, it's the capacity of one cylinder.

[Gil Bouffard]

Jarama,

The MP4 is and has been McLaren Project 4.

The cars before Ron Dennis got involved were M series. Even though Marlboro was the sponsor the 'M' stood for McLaren.

If you wish to carry this to the ridiculous, the cars should be WP4's for the money West has put into the team. Or, maybe they should het rid of all of it and call the cars WMB something.

Ron Dennis ran the Project 4 Formula Two team which was combined with the McLaren Formula One team. Both had a large investment by Marlboro, who saw a way of saving money.

Dennis was a better organizer than Teddy Mayer.

Gil Bouffard

[jarama]

Gil,

"The MP4 (named simply to reflect 'Marlboro-Project Four' although popularly the cars were very much 'McLarens')..."

Extracted from "McLaren / The Grand Prix, Can-Am and Indy Cars" by Doug Nye.

[jarama]

Originally posted by Wolf
Jarama, wasnt 555 introduced in '54? And what about 735 and 625?

Wolf,

the first outing for the 555 was the Turin GP '55, if I'm not wrong.

Concerning the 735 and 625 my guess is about unitary capacity:
735 x 4, 2940cc
625 x 4, 2500cc

[Wolf]

Thanx Jarama, on both accounts. I may have jumped to conclusion when I remembered Ferrari 625(555) entered in '54. BTW, there were also some 625(735/555) entered too. What do those designations mean?

[Roger Clark]

Originally posted by Wolf
Thanx Jarama, on both accounts. I may have jumped to conclusion when I remembered Ferrari 625(555) entered in '54. BTW, there were also some 625(735/555) entered too. What do those designations mean?

A 625 chassis and an engine consisting of the bottom end of a 735 sports car and the cylinder head of a 553.. It was first seen at the Nuburgring in 1954. THey had also tried a 625 bottom end with a 553 cylinder head

[Gil Bouffard]

Oh, My! Doug Nye could never be wrong! That's why the company is called Marlboro Cars!

Popular myths are just that.

PC=Penske Cars (Probably also called Marlboro).

D= Deutsche = ATS (Thank god that Gunther Schmid's ego didn't go to chassis names)

If Karl proves me wrong, I'll Accept it.

Gil

[Frank de Jong]

Originally posted by Gil Bouffard

D= Deutsche = ATS (Thank god that Gunther Schmid's ego didn't go to chassis names)

Gil

... but I suspect that the first ATS (the HS1), this would stand for Herd and Schmidt; after he fell out with Herd, he had to change his system...

[Marcor]

The French cars Martini (F1 in 1978 only) used MW and MK.
M for Tico Martini, W for Winfield, K for Knight.

In France again: AGS. The small team used JH, for Henry Julien, founder of the Automobiles Gonfaronnaise Sportives

[Paul Hartshorne]

Could someone explain to me how Enzo Osella came to designate one of his cars the FA1L? It's always amused me:lol:

Cheers, Paul

[Frank de Jong]

I get your point
But let me answer it anyway.
The other Enzo first had prototypes, ex-Abarth, which were called PA1, PA2 etc. "P" probably for prototipo, A for automobili?
Obviously,he wasn't satisfied with it, so his F2 cars were called FA2, like FA2/75, FA2/76, you get it. The F will stand for Formula, the 2 for F2.
His F1 cars used yet again another sequence: FA1 (now familiar), but subsequent models were called FA1B, FA1C etc. In fact, 2 total different FA1F models seem to have been built, the first one an Alfa Romeo 183T in disguise, the second one a genuine Osella. And yes, somewhere in 1988 we reached FA1L, but the series ended with FA1M. Fame?

[Marcor]

The F1 Osellas often FA1L (to qualify, to finish, to score points...)

But the FA1L never existed. After FA1I there would be FA1-M89 (in 1989), FA1-ME (in 1990) and then the team and the car were renamed Fondmetal (bought by Gabriele Rumi).

I think A originally stood for Abarth as Enzo was running the Abarth Osella Team (effectively the Abarth works team) from 1969. When Abarth was absorbed by Fiat, Osella continued with the sports-racers under his own name.

[BRG]

Lotus used a project numbering system that covered all their products (road and race) so the Lotus 72 was Lotus's 72nd car design. Theoretically, that is. There are always some miscues in these systems.

Presumably the "M" number sof the origianl McLarens (M19, M23) was just for McLaren?

Anyone know the significance of BRM's "P" numbers?

[Ray Bell]

I'd be fairly sure the P stood for 'project' at BRM too. As for Tyrrell's projects, they may have included extended trials and varieties of nose shapes etc?

Ferrari have often used individual cylinder capacities... their Sports Cars of the sixties were 375s and 250s etc... calculate their size by multiplying by 12 and that's the answer. But there have been a number of variations in the schemes in recent years.

Frank Matich's cars were the SR3, SR4 and SR4b, with SR standing for Sports Racing... the F5000s were A50, A51 etc... Formula A, I guess, with the start at 5.0 litres?

Tony Simmons called his developments of the U2 theme Simmons Hustler SC1s (Sports Car design number 1), but the overuse of the Hustler name led to the next model being called the Seca 3... still Sports Car tied up in there... forgotten what his Formula Ford was called.

[FLB]

Jordan's first was supposed to be called 911, for 91 (the year), Formula 1. It hadn't been painted yet and thus was still black. Someone from a well-known German auto company objected ;) before finding out they couldn't do a bloody thing about it.

The wily Irishman finally christened his car 191. He spent the year driving a brand new black Posrche 911

[BRG]

So if I call my new F1 design the "996 GT3 Maranello LS340 Z8 S-class Diablo" , I should be knee deep in cars....

[Graham Clayton]

Here are some name origins

1. 1974 Amon AF101- named after Chris *A*mon and Gordon *F*owell

2. Beatrice-Lola THL1 & 2 - named after Team Hass Ltd, who ran the F1 program

3. Many teams used the year that the car
raced for the designation, eg

1986 - Benetton 186
1987 - Benetton 187
- Coloni FC187
1988 - Coloni FC188
- Dallara BMS188
- Eurobrun ER188

4. Renault - RS01 & RS10 - named after Renault Sport
- RE20-RE60 - named after Renualt & Elf,
who were one of the major sponsors
5. Kojima KE007 - Kojima Engineering

Finally, Arrows took their name from the initials of the
founders of the team,

Franco Ambrosio (AR)
Alan Rees ®
Jackie Oliver (O)
Dave Wass (W)
Alan Southgate (S)

[Barry Boor]

TONY Southgate.

[Marcor]

About Arrows, Alan Rees, Jackie Oliver, Dave wass and Tony Southgate are well known of us. Less known Franco Ambrosio was initially the financier. They all quitted The Shadow Team in the end of 1977.

In the 1977 German GP at Hockenheim two Shadows were entered by the AMBROSIO TABATIP SHADOW RACING and driven by Alan Jones and Riccardo Patrese. Ambrosio and Tabatip (a cigarette mark) were the sponsors of the team. At the next GP in Austria - surprise - the inscriptions Ambrosio had disappeared and Patrese replaced by Arturo Merzario. Ambrosio had not paid all his financial obligations as sponsor to the team.

Unluckily for Senior Ambrosio, this GP saw the first (and last) victory of Shadow and the first of Alan Jones, only 13th on the grid !! The rain and the retirement of the leaders Mario Andretti and James Hunt offered the laurels to a perfect outsider in GP, Jones...

After the foundation of Arrows Mr Ambrosio soon fell foul of the Italian authorities, and courts, because of financial irregularities.

[rdrcr]

This is prompted by a thread over at the PC...

I found this while seaching for a certain name and thought it was interesting. Some I knew of but many were a suprise and I thought that it would be of interest here. I don't know how accurate these are either. As I thought Mercedes was named after Carl Benz daughter, not the importer's...


The name of the car is followed by a note of origin and the letter of the country

Abarth Named after Carlo Abarth I

A.C. Abbreviation for "Auto Carriers, Ltd." GB

Adler The German word for eagle D

ALFA Romeo ALFA is an abbreviation for "Anonima Lombarda Fabbrica Automobili", Italian for "Lombardian Car Manufactoring Ltd.", while Romeo the name of Nicola Romeo, a businessman who bought ALFA a couple of years after its creation I

Aston Martin Named after the race "Aston Clinton" in Buckinghamshire in England and after the constructor Lionel Martin GB

Audi Named after August Horch, whose family name would be "Audi" in Latin D

Austin Named after Herbert Austin GB

Austro-Daimler Named after Gottlieb Daimler; this was his Austrian factory A

Bentley Named after W.O. Bentley GB

Benz Named after Carl Benz D

BMC Abbreviation for "British Motor Corporation" GB

BMW Abbreviation for "Bayrische Motorenwerke", German for "Bavarian Motor Factory" D

Borgward Named after Carl Borgward D

Bristol Named after the town Bristol in England GB

Bugatti Named after Ettore Bugatti. The factory was situated in Alsace-Lorraine, ceded from Germany to France after the First World War D, F

Buick Named after David Dunbar Buick USA

Cadillac Named after Antoine de la Mothe Cadillac (1656-1750), French explorer in North America USA

Chevrolet Named after Louis Chevrolet USA

Chrysler Named after Walter Chrysler USA

Citroën Named after André Citroën F

Cord Named after Errett Lobban Cord USA

DAF Abbreviation for "Van Doorne Aanhangwagen Fabriek", Dutch for "Van Doorne Side Waggon Factory". They were not building cars from the start NL

Daimler Named after Gottlieb Daimler GB

Datsun "DAT" for the constructors K. Den, R. Aoyama och A. Takeuchi, "sun" for "son"; the first car was named DAT, the following cars got the name Datsun JPN

Delahaye Named after Emile Delahaye F

De Lorean Named after John Z. De Lorean UK

De Soto Named after Hernando de Soto, a Spanish explorer in the 16th century USA

de Dion-Bouton Named after Count Albert de Dion and Georges Bouton F

DKW Abbreviation of "Dampfkraftwagen", German for "steam motor car". It has also been interpreted as "Das kleine Wunder" ("the little wonder") and "Des Knaben Wünch" ("the boy's wish") D

Dodge Named after John and Horace Dodge USA

Duesenberg Named after Frederick and August Duesenberg USA

Edsel Named after Edsel Ford USA

EMW Abbreviation for "Eisenacher Motorenwerke", German for "Eisenachian Motor Factory". This was the BMW factory that happened to be in the Soviet Zone (which became East Germany) when Germany was occupied after the Second World War. Due to intellectual property law, it had to change names DDR

Excalibur Named after the sword of the mythological King Arthur of England USA

Ferarri Named after Enzo Ferarri I

FIAT Abbreviation for "Fabrica Italiana Automobili Torini", Italian for "Italian Car Factory in Turin" I

Ford Named after Henry Ford USA

Frazer Named after Joseph W. Frazer USA

Ginetta Ginetta is just a name GB

Honda Named after Soichiro Honda JPN

Horch Named after August Horch D

IFA Abbreviation for "Industrievereinigung Volkseigener Fahrzeugwerke", German for "Industry Association of People's Owned Vehicle Factory"; acctually DKW cars, but made in those factories which happened to come to the Soviet Zone when Germany was occupied after the Second World War, and therefore was taken over by the communist regime DDR

Jaguar Named after the animal Jaguar GB

Jensen Named after Alan and Richard Jensen GB

Kaiser Named after Henry J. Kaiser USA

Lamborghini Named after Ferrucio Lamborghini I

Lancia Named after Vincenzo Lancia I

Lincoln Named after Abraham Lincoln, President of the United States of America 1861-1865 USA

Lotus Named after the lotus flower GB (although there is some contestability to this I understand)

Maserati Named after Alfieri, Bindo and Ettore Maserati I

Mazda Named after Jujiro Matsuda JPN

Mercedes A name given to the cars manufactured by Gottlieb Daimler by its importer in France, Emil Jellinek (who also gave this name to his own daughter) D

Mercedes-Benz The car trademarks Mercedes and Benz put together D

Mercury Named after the planet Mercury USA

Messerschmitt Named after Willy Messerschmitt D

M.G. Abbreviation for Morris Garages, where hotted versions of Morris cars where being made GB

Mini Means small, mini (originally a model name on a Morris, which latter on rather became a car of its own) GB

Mitsubishi Japanese for "three diamonds" JPN

Morgan Named after H.F.S. Morgan GB

Morris Named after William Richard Morris GB

MVS Abbreviation for "Manufacture de Voitures de Sport", French for "Manufactor of Sport Vehicles" F

NSU Abbreviation for "Neckarsulmer" as in "Neckarsulmer Fahrradwerke A.G.", German for "Neckarsulmian Bicycle Ltd." D

Oldsmobile Named after Ransom Eli Olds USA

Opel Named after Adam Opel, whose sons started the manufacturing of cars in the company he had founded D

Packard Named after James William Packard USA

Panhard et Levassor Named after René Panhard and Emile Levassor. The car was latter on just called Panhard F

Peugeot Named after Jean-Jaques Peugeot (1699-1741) F

Polski-FIAT A Polish car factory built by FIAT in Poland on commission of the Polish government PL

Pontiac Named after the town Pontiac in Michigan, USA, which in turn is named after an Indian chief by that name USA

Porsche Named after Ferdinand Porsche, jr. D

Renault Named after Louis Renault F

REO The initials of Ransom Eli Olds USA

Rolls-Royce Named after Lord Charles Stewart Rolls and Sir Frederick Henry Royce GB

Rover This name is meant to describe the character of the car GB

SAAB Abbreviation for "Svenska Aeroplanaktiebolaget", Swedish for "Swedish Airplane Ltd." The company started as a manufactory of airplanes to the Royal Swedish Airforce S

Sachsenring Named after a race track in Saxony (Sachsen) in Germany DDR

Scania The Latin name of the province Scania (in Swedish "Skåne") in Sweden S

SIMCA Abbreviation for "Société Industrielle de Mécanique et Carrosserie Automobile", French for "Industrial Association of Automobile Mechanic and Body" F

Škoda Named after Emile Škoda CS, CZ

Stoewer Named after Emil and Bernhard Stoewer D

Studebaker Named after Henry and Clem Studebaker USA

Stutz Named after Henry and Clayton Stutz USA

Subaru The Japanese name for the Pleiades constellation JPN

Talbot Named after Lord Talbot F

Tatra Named after the mountain Tatra in Slovakia CS

Thulin Named after Enoch Thulin S

Tidaholm Named after the town Tidaholm in Sweden S

de Tomaso Named after Alejandro de Tomaso I

Toyota Named after Sakichi Toyoda JPN

Trabant German for "satellite", to honor the Soviet satellite Sputnik DDR

Tucker Named after Preston T. Tucker USA

TVR After the letters in Trevor Wilkinson's first name GB

VABIS Abbreviation for "Vagnfabriksaktiebolaget i Södertälje", Swedish for "Waggon Factory Ltd. in Södertälje" S

Valiant This name is meant to describe the character of the car USA

Vauxhall Named after Vauxhall Gardens, England GB

VAZ Abbreviation for "Volzjskij Avtomolbilnij Zavod" SU

Volga Named after the river Volga in Russia SU

Volkswagen German for "car for the people", a car that everyone should be able to have D

Volvo Means "I'm rolling" in Latin S

Wanderer German for "rover", it is meant to describe the character of the car D

Wartburg Named after a castle in Saxony in Germany DDR

Willys Named after John North Willys USA

Wolseley Named after Frederick York Wolseley (1837-1899) GB

Yugo Named after Yugoslavia YU

ZIL Abbreviation for "Zavod Imiena Likhachov". Ivan Likhachov was the constructor of the first cars and director of the company SU

ZIS Abbreviation for "Zavod Imiena Stalina", "Stalina" for Josef Stalin. Was latter renamed ZIL SU

Zwickau Named after the town Zwickau in Saxony in Germany DDR

Åtvidaberg Named after Åtvidaberg in Sweden

http://www.users.win...ias/bilnamn.htm.

[byrkus]

Zastava means 'flag' YU (although official name was Crvena Zastava, 'Red flag')

[Mike Argetsinger]

A fascinating list. Just a small point - but why the GB after the DeLorean? Surely it was an American car - I know it was put together in Ireland - but?

[byrkus]

Northern Ireland, I believe. And it is still part of GB, AFAIK...

By the way, does anybody know what 'VEB' (as in VEB Sachsenring) means??

[Frank de Jong]

DAF = van Doorne's Automobiel Fabriek

[Ray Bell]

Holden, the Australian GM car... named after the Holden family, who built bodies for many makes of cars in Adelaide from the twenties or thereabouts.

The Holden Motor Body Works was acquired by GM in the thirties, though they still made other bodies for companies like Willys etc, but production of Holden cars from 1948 brought the outside work to an end.

[Ray Bell]

Initials are a fascination, you've mentioned REO, stemming from Olds...

There are others, like AC (spark plugs etc)... Albert Champion after he lost his first company, Champion.

ERF (GB, trucks), Eric Royce Foden, who previously made trucks under the name of Foden.

Can't think of any others at the moment...

[Stefan Ornerdal]

Who was "Lola"? Mrs Broadley?

Is Mercedes a common name in Spanish-speaking countries? A-klasse, easy to lay down...

Stefan

[Prostfan]

Originally posted by byrkus
By the way, does anybody know what 'VEB' (as in VEB Sachsenring) means??

VEB means "Volks-eigener Betrieb" (=company owned by the people) which was in former GDR the usual abbrevation for any business company

[MattPete]

Hmmm...I always thought that Mazda the company was named after the Zoroastrian god "Mazda".

[LB]

Anyone want to do this with the F1 teams. I know Alan Rees was initialised in two cars ( March and Arrows) but what about the rest. I'll clean up the easy ones

current -
Arrows - Ambrosio Rees, Oliver, Wass and Southgate
BAR - British American Racing - British American Tobacco.
Ferrari - as above
Jaguar - as above
Jordan - Eddie Jordan
McLaren - named after Bruce McLaren
Minardi - Giancarlo Minardi
Prost - erm Alain perhaps
Renault - as above
Sauber - Peter Sauber
Toyota - as above
Williams - Frank Williams

other easy ones
Benetton - from the clothing company
Tyrell - Ken Tyrell
Stewart - Jackie Stewart ( well technically Paul)
Lola - named after the song "Whatever Lola wants, Lola gets" from a broadway musical - i believe
Ligier - Guy Ligier
Footwork - sponsor
Larrousse - Gerald Larrousse
Lotus - as above
Brabham - Jack Brabham
Leyton House - sponsor
Dallara - Gianpaolo Dallara
FondmetaL - sponsor
March - Max Mosley Alan Rees Graeme Croaker Robin Herd
Forti - Guido Forti
Coloni - Enzo Coloni
Onyx - mineral
Monteverdi - Peter Monteverdi

some I don't know
AGS
Life
Pacific
Simtek

I think thats the nineties covered

[LB]

simtek - Simulation Technology - how boring

Life I presume is the anglosized verson of Ernesto Vita

AGS - Automobiles Gonfaronnaise Sportives

Pacific still a mystery

( thank you google )

[LB]

simtek - Simulation Technology - how boring

Life I presume is the anglosized verson of Ernesto Vita

AGS - Automobiles Gonfaronnaise Sportives

Osella - Enzo Osella

Pacific still a mystery

( thank you google )

[Barry Boor]

Mini Means small, mini (originally a model name on a Morris, which latter on rather became a car of its own) GB

I am not so sure about the order of things here. IIRC I don't recall the word MINI existing prior to the arrival of the car. The car was called the Morris or Austin Mini and it was a small car. Hence the word MINI became connected with anything small. But I suspect it was the car that came first rather than the word applied to the car. Maybe someone older than me can repudiate this view.

[Ray Bell]

"Mini" was, of course, a common prefix... 'minimum' for instance...

But the Mini is more than just a 'Mini', it's a 'Mini Minor'... or was originally. From 1948 or so Morris produced the 'Minor' and then the successor was so much smaller it was called the 'Mini Minor', the Austin version the 'Austin 7' to capitalise on an old familiar name... later they all became just 'Minis'...

[AS110]

LADA,wasn't she a Goddess of beauty? In which case a very apt name!

[byrkus]

I have my own theory about Lada, but I'm not sure if it's true.

I don't speak Russian, but I believe that word 'Lada' means a ship or a boat. And if you look at their simbol, you could in fact see a viking drakar. On the other hand, it also look like (sort of) letter L in cirylic writing.