107 replies to this topic

[William Hunt]

Peter Collins is a driver that I really like. he died at a very young age at the Nürburgring. Does anyone know some stories about him ? What was he like charachterwise ? Was he popular amongst his peers ? He was a very sportive driver since he offerd Fangio his car in '56 when he still had a shot at the world title. And what could he still have achieved had he not died so young ?

[Rob29]

Recomend you find 'Mon Ami Mate' a 371 page large format book by Chris Nixon,on the life of Collins and Mike Hawthorn. Sadly I never met him,but did see him win 2 races at Crystal Palace in 1955.

[William Hunt]

I was hoping to see some anecdotes or interesting stories about how Peter Collins was as a human beiing. But apparently there aren't that many Collins fans out here. Everytime Clark's name pops up all kinds of stories come up, surely there must be some interesting things on Peter.

[Barry Boor]

I think that the fact that Peter was around for such a relatively short time in Grand Prix racing, (1952-1958 but very few races in 1954 or 1955) allied to the fact that even we older members were very young when Peter was racing, means that very few people have personal memories.

What I have read and the opinions I have formed make me feel that had he stayed with Ferrari for a few more years, he would have been champion somewhere along the way. But that is a very personal viewpoint. He might simply have walked away after 1959.

The mind boggles at the idea of Peter in a 1961 Sharknose!

[joachimvanwing]

A few things I know about him:

He won the British GP, the race before Nürburgring.
One race later he was chasing Tony Brooks in the Eifelmountains, battling for the lead. Tony brooks won the race in the Van Wall.

Peter Collins' Dino 246 was much quicker on the long downhill straight to Tiergarten than the VanWall VW4. Though, the VW4 handled much better through the winding part of the lap.
Lap after lap Tony Brooks needed to create a gap in the first part of the lap to be safe on the long straight. During the last lap Brooks really pushed hard going trought the descent from Hohe Acht, downhill to Schwalbenschanz. Somehow Peter Collins, in an effort to keep up with Tony, left the road.

[Ray Bell]

The reason, of course, for the title to the book Mon Ami, Mate was his very close relationship with Mike Hawthorn... and their tendency to play practical jokes together.

Yes, I think 1961 would have been interesting if he'd been around, but he might have levelled out by then as his domestic situation was coming together at the time of his death. He was buying a house and getting closer to settling down...

[William Hunt]

A bit like Gerhard Berger's practical jokes on Senna ? I've heard a LOT of Berger joke stories.

[Ray Bell]

Well, he is a friend of Barry Sheene's!

Don't think Peter Collins was ever accused of rape, however...

[Buford]

Yes Jim Clark was nearly a decade later (and wildly successful) so many of us remember him from our youth and he raced in America so we knew him here too. Collins is just a name from history books. Few of us saw him race and those would be older Europeans, probably few Americans.

[William Hunt]

Yes I remember Berger was accused by an Australian girl. What was the result of the acusation ? I know that Boris Becker got condemned for making a waitress-girl pregnant after his quarter final Wimbledon exit a couple of years ago.

[Mike Argetsinger]

I never met Peter Collins so I cannot provide any personal anecdotes - but he was one of my boyhood heroes. But since William has asked for anecdotes that help to provide an insight on his character - here is a famous story that speaks volumes for the kind of person he was. The following is my rendition of the story as told on the "Sportiveness" thread that ran on TNF within the last month or so.


"It was fantastic. I kissed him, and finished second and the championship was mine again. I could not have done it without that great, typically English, sportsmanship."

This is Juan Manuel Fangio commenting on Peter Collins turning his Ferrari over to him at Monza in 1956. Prostfan mentioned this early on in this thread but I think the incident deserves a fuller treatment - for the benefit of those who don't know the story and the equal benefit of all of us who revel in those great days filled with both glory and honor.

The fact is that starting that race only Stirling Moss and Collins were in a position to deny Fangio his fourth world championship. The steering failed on Fangio's Lancia-Ferrari on the 19th lap and he was out. Moss comfortably led the race in the works 250F Maserati and when he also set fastest lap (an extra point) Fangio's championship hopes seemed gone. Ferrari Team Manager Eraldo Sculati signalled Luigi Musso to pit in order to turn his car over to Fangio. Musso refused to stop until he was forced to for fuel and tires. At this point Sculati asked Musso - with Fangio standing there - to turn his car over to his team leader. Musso refused and returned to the race. When Collins came in for a tire check Sculati informed him of the situation but made no direct request. Collins stood up in the cockpit and gestured to Fangio to take over.

Some may say - 'well, that was a time when it was the norm to turn over the car to a lead driver.' And it is true that Collins had previously done the same thing at Monaco earlier in the year - thus earning a shared 2nd with Fangio. And Collins had in turn taken over the car of Portago at both Silverstone and the Nurburgring. But don't forget - Musso could - and should - have made the same gesture at this very race. And in this case the very championship was on the line - and Collins responded without being told to do so.

Collins, who had won the Belgian and French GP's that year may well have been World Champion himself. But in my eyes he achieved an even greater spot in the ranks of the immortals through his actions that day.

[Wolf]

Thanx Mike!

BTW, I endorse Williams thread for selfish reasons: namely, I would like to learn amout Peter too...

And it was hinted to me that 'Mon Ami Mate' gives the different account of German GP (probably to the effect that it was not voluntary gesture)- can someone shed some light on that? *

* BTW, I by no means wish to imply that Mike's account is in any way inaccurate, idealistic &c- this is the version I heard most times and not only am I inclined to belive but want to belive. This question is only a matter of curiosity.

[William Hunt]

Thanks Mike , this is just the kind of comments I was hoping to get !

As for the changing drives in a car : I think it really should never have been allowed as it rapes results. Now it would be unthinkable.

Imagine Schummi retiring and taking over Rubens car so that he would still become champion, that would be awfull.

BTW : If changing drivers wasn't allowed than Stirling Moss would have been world champion that year !

[Mike Argetsinger]

Wolf - I presume you meant Monza where you wrote Nurburgring? That's interesting what you say - I don't have a copy of "Mon Ami Mate' and don't remember what was said there in this regard. Perhaps someone who has a copy could add something here. My account is based on the story as I always heard it and draws heavily on Doug Nye's account in his book "Racers 1948-1968."

William - the reality of Grand Prix racing at that time was just very different than today. The reason for a driver taking over the car of a teammate wasn't only because of the point chase. Sometimes the driver simply needed relief. Remember that the races were far longer than today and the cars were much more physically demanding to drive. From a promoters standpoint alone it wouldn't have been very attractive to have an otherwise healthy car withdrawn just because the driver was physically spent. So I have to disagree with your premise here.

Perhaps an interesting way to shed additional light on what an unique individual Peter Collins was, would be if we posted some quotes from other drivers and observers of the scene at the time. I'll start it off with this quote from Denis Jenkinson in his classic book "The Racing Driver."

"Hawthorn and Collins both had good clear analytical minds for details and were a great help to the Scuderia Ferrari in getting the cars really raceworthy."

And this one from Phil Hill as quoted by William F. Nolan in "Yankee Champion."

". . . . . but Pete's death upset all of us. He was like a little boy in racing, full of fun and loving every minute of it."

Can someone add some more? We likely won't match the famous Amon thread (actually I think we are at about 0.0075 % of the posting there!) but surely we can generate some good stories and other background on this wonderful personality.

[scheivlak]

Originally posted by William Hunt
BTW : If changing drivers wasn't allowed than Stirling Moss would have been world champion that year !

Certainly not! Moss himself was stepping in other driver's Maseratis for half of the season!

A few weeks ago Falcadore showed that, in a 1956 season where all changing drivers are disqualified like they would be now, the WDC would be Jean Behra!

[Gary Davies]

Originally posted by scheivlak
Certainly not! Moss himself was stepping in other driver's Maseratis for half of the season!

A few weeks ago Falcadore showed that, in a 1956 season where all changing drivers are disqualified like they would be now, the WDC would be Jean Behra!

Lordy Lord, this could get complicated! I was about to respond to Mike's description of the Monza hand over when I read scheivlak's comment, above, which initially threw me.

However ...

During 1956 the record shows that The Golden Boy finished in the car he started in Argentina, Monaco, Great Britain, Germany and Italy. He took over Perdisa's car in Belgium and France. That's not "half of the season", it's 28.5%! (excluding Indy of course.)

As for Fangio, he took over Musso's car in Argentina, and Collins' in Monaco and Italy. Three races ... 42.8%!

Back to Mike's description. I'd either not read or forgotten the particular circumstances around the hand over. My admiration of Collins has grown measurably from reading that.

For a long time, I've had sympathy with the view that the 1958 season outcome devalued the prestige of the WDC. Perhaps we should consider 1956 to be the year that the prestige of the WDC first took a significant knock.

Vanwall.

[Vrba]

Originally posted by William Hunt
....
BTW : If changing drivers wasn't allowed than Stirling Moss would have been world champion that year !

But it was so he wouldn't :-))
Now seriously - those were the rules of the time and I see nothing wrong with them. Moss simply wasn't WDC material. To prevent all assaults on my last sentence I would simply say that if he was, he would have became the champion. No other factors matter.

Hrvoje

[byrkus]

I'm going to put some more oil to the fire called '1956 season', for I did a little research and gave points to drivers, which in cases of shared-drives were first to go (like Musso in ARG, Collins in ITA etc.), presuming of course they would finish in the same spot. This gave the following situation:

WC: Stirling Moss, 31 points; (30 netto)
2nd: Peter Collins, 28 pts;
3rd: Juan M. Fangio, 23 pts;
4th: Jean Behra, 22 pts

[Mike Argetsinger]

I suggested, a few posts above, that we may try to illuminate Peter Collins career and personality by posting quotes about him from various racing figures who knew him. To add to those I posted above from Fangio, Jenkinson and P. Hill - and in the hope of stimulating others to provide quotes or anecdotes they are aware of - I add here a couple of quotes from Roy Salvadori's book.

The first one is relating the strict team orders enforced by John Wyer on the Aston Martin team drivers at LeMans - whichever team member was ahead at the end of the first lap - they were to hold station with respect to one another. Here is how Roy and Peter handled it at LeMans in 1955(they were unaware of the enormity of the accident) -

". . . . . but round the back of the circuit we were having the most immense dice, constantly swapping positions and then sorting ourselves out so that we re-appeared at the pits in the right order. On one lap I spun at Arnage - one of the very few occasions on which I spun a DB3S - and Peter waited while I restarted and caught up wih him. He laughed and waved me by so that we could keep the order right as we passed the pits. Peter was really as nice as they come."

This one is from 1953 when Collins and Salvadori were still the new boys on the Aston Martin team and is in a section that illustrates how very well Astons looked after their drivers.

". . . . . how well Aston Martin looked after their drivers and the sheer pleasure of racing for the team. Much of this pleasure was derived from travelling to the races and for me an overseas race with Aston Martin was a holiday in itself. At this time motor racing was my relaxation and I did not take holidays. I know that Peter Collins felt the same way and even went to the extent of taking along his bucket and spade!"

[oldtimer]

There is detail that is missing about the the 1956 race at Monza. Practice had shown that the Englebert tyres on the Lancia-Ferraris were not capable of taking flat-out motoring on the combined banked and road circuit. Unbeknownst to Ferrari was there also the danger of steering arm failure, von Trips heavy practice accident being blamed on youthful exuberance.

At the beginning of the race, Castellotti and Musso set off at a furious pace, racing for the Italian championship. Jenks reported that Fangio signalled to Collins to hold back with him to preserve the tyres. Both Italian drivers suffered tyre failures, and Fangio a steering arm failure.

The point in this story is that the sportsmanship between Collins and Fangio went both ways. I seem to remember a story that, in a discussion about his action, Collins said," We all know he's the champion. There's plenty of time for me." I daresay he was thinking about drive in the later laps at Monaco, practice at Spa and Rheims, the grinding it out at Silverstone, and the demonstration run at the Nurburgring.

Sadly, Collins hopes for the future were denied.

John Wyer gives some stories about Collins in his book on the Aston Martins, which indicate a mixed performer. Wyer gives some emphasis to Brooks, on his first race at the Nurburgring, being some 16 seconds faster than Collins in their shared car. Wyer writes of Collins talking of not renewing his contract with Ferrari after 1958, so had he lived, I don't think we would have seen him in a 1961 'sharknose' Ferrari. I wonder if he would have handled that comparitively low-powered car like his 500cc Cooper. Very hairy...

[Wolf]

Originally posted by oldtimer
Wyer gives some emphasis to Brooks, on his first race at the Nurburgring, being some 16 seconds faster than Collins in their shared car.

I would be content to lap 6mins of Brooks pace on 'Ring...;) On a more serious note, I think Brooks was quite good at the 'Ring and had upper hand even on Moss on a few occasions (in '58 he qualified almost 5secs ahead of Moss, but I think there were some differences in supension of their Vanwals).

[Mike Argetsinger]

Oldtimer - tell us about Collins in his 500cc F-3 Cooper. Sounds like there's a story there.

Collins practiced the 1960cc Cooper-Climax at Monaco in 1957 at Rob Walker's request when Jack Brabham was late for practice. I would love to see a photo of him in that car.

[oldtimer]

Not much of a story Mike. From the little I saw in the early '50s at Goodwood events, Collins was pretty wild in the little Coopers. This did not distinguish his style, because he was in good company . What caught my attention was a day in 1954 when I opened a programme to see that he was entered in Tony Vandervell's 4.5litre Thin Wall Ferrari, a car with possibly twice the power that Collins was used to handling. That was when his Cooper style came to mind, and frankly I was worried. But he took to the big car like a duck to water and, not only was I relieved, but I knew I was watching a future GP driver.

Collins used to like to hang the tail out more than most. Volume 1 of the Wyer/Nixon volumes on the racing Aston Martins has a lovely contrast of the celebrated shot of Moss kicking up the dust at Goodwood in an understeering slide, and Collins, in the same model, and the same corner, drifting in an oversteering slide. The same thing can be seen in shots from Silverstone in 1958, with Hawthorn drifting his 246 Ferrari in understeer slides and Collins in his usual oversteer mode.

The Wyer book also gives hints about the off-track high jinks in the Aston Martin team. Rob Walker's contribution has the heading " I have a vague recollection of pouring Peter Collins into a New York City garbage can."

They were different days...

[cabianca]

This is a subject dear to my heart since the English-language press has always made Collins a hero for "giving the Championship to Fangio". While Collins was tremendously talented and a really neat guy, I personally find this oft-repeated myth a load of rubbish. Let's look at the way the scoring worked going into Monza.

Assumption: Collins wins and makes fastest lap
1) Fangio finishes second - final score Fangio 32, Collins 31
2) Fangio finishes third - final score Fangio 30, Collins 31

Assumption: Collins wins
1) Fangio second with fastest lap - final score Fangio 33, Collins 30
2) Fangio second - final score Fangio 32, Collins 30
3) Fangio third with fastest lap - final score Fangio 31, Collins 30
4) Fangio third - Fangio 30, Collins 30, Collins wins because of better secondary placings

So there was a chance before the race that Collins could win the Championship. That part of the story is true. However, the popular conception of events does not square with history. Certainly, by turning over his car, Collins relinquished his CHANCE to win the title. However, during the race itself, it looked unlikely that he would win (the title). Collins had only qualified 7th and although in the leading group during the first part of the race, had fallen to one minute out of third by half distance. In order for him to pull out the win, all the leaders would have had to retire. That could have happened, and Moss did run out of fuel on the course while leading. Moss prevailed upon Piotti's private Maserati to PUSH HIM BACK TO THE PITS and this was permitted under the regulations (Thank God for pre-Bernie rules). After that incident, Musso led with Fangio in Collins' car trying to catch Moss for second. The Italian crowd was delerious from the excitement of the previous events and having an Italian, in an Italian car, leading their national GP had them over the top. Then, four laps from the finish, came the denouement. Musso broke a steering arm and the splayed wheel caused a tire to burst. The exhausted and tearful Musso was led back to the pits by photog Bernard Cahier. Moss came home first from a fast closing Fangio. Final points were:
Fangio 30
Moss 27
Collins 25
Had Collins kept his car AND finished second as Fangio did, which is questionable, he would have finished with 28 points, one more than Moss. Nevertheless, HAD COLLINS NOT GIVEN UP HIS CAR TO FANGIO, FANGIO WOULD STILL HAVE BEEN WORLD CHAMPION IN 1956, had Collins finished second. Thus, my contention is that 1) Collins did not give up the Championship for Fangio. 2) Fangio did not win the Championship because Collins gave him his car and, 3) Collins actually gave up second place in the Championship by giving his car to Fangio. Item 3 is a hell of a lot different than the way the story is usually told.

[oldtimer]

Hear, hear Cabianca!

From a Brit, worse than that, an Englishman

[Don Capps]

What Michael states concerning the 1956 GP d'Italia is one reason that I have always wondered why so many focus on that event when they praise Collins when it was not exactly as advertised. Does this mean that Collins was not a superb individual and a crack racer? Not at all, just that perhaps far too much is placed on this one event than is warranted when The Record is consulted. Peter Collins deserves to be remembered and remembered as one of those great characters with Character who was also very fast -- a combination not always in synch with each other.

As Michael points out, it is rubbish -- great romantic rubbish and just the sort of rubbish that makes it possible to nudge events the way one wishes....

....which brings to mind the person perhaps most responsible for this "rubbish" being perpetuated and why....

Or, is that best left for another day?

[Roger Clark]

this is not the first discussion we've had aboutt Monza 1956. I think that Cabianca's analysis is correct, but omits one thing, the reliability of the cars , particularly Maseratis. It was not out of the question that Collins could have won; by the end of te race Moss' tyres were practically bald, and he couldn't have lasted many more laps.

As regards whether collins volunteered to give up his car, my understanding is that he was asked to do so by the Ferrari management.

I think I said on another thread that Ferrari's objective was to win the Italian Grand Prix, the most important race of the year for them, not the drivers' world championship. In any case, I think most would agree that the best driver won the championship, and he would still have been the best driver, regardless of who won the most points.

[cabianca]

Musso was also asked to give up his car. He simply refused to make eye contact with Fangio when he was in the pits and drove on, coming within a few laps of winning the race. Yes it was a politically incorrect decision, the decision of a racer. For his trouble, Musso became the goat in the English press and Collins became the hero.

[Wolf]

From what I gather Peter had a chance to win the championship, albeit slim* at the time he handed his car to Fangio, chance nevertheless. For example, Moss's car breaking down was not so unexpected and he could've inherited the lead and won... I mean he could not have known that Moss will cover the distance. What I mean he relinquished any chance of winning the championship the moment he handed his car to Fangio. He could've made it, he could've failed but he chose to hand his car to Fangio.

* the way I see it (and correct me if I'm wrong) Moss was out of contention and the battle was between Fangio and Collins, which had to win and have a FL with Fangio's DNF to win or the C'ship or win w/o FL to tie with Fangio on 30 pts. Fangio's DNF was thing that came to pass at that point so his fate would be theoretically in his hands- if he could've managed to win or not...

[Bumblyari]

Whenever I see the words "load of rubbish" in print on a forum such as this it always seems to be the trigger for emotions along with hackles to start rising so let me get in quickly.

First of all I must confess my bias up-front. Like Mike Argetsinger I never met Peter Collins but he was also a boyhood hero of mine. This could have been due to the fact that in the 1950s, my Great Aunt & Uncle, whom I used to visit frequently, lived almost next door to the garage where Peter Collins grew up so he somehow seemed a bit more 'real' I suppose.

Now I know there are many people on this forum who are more authoritative and widely read than I but I cannot remember reading anywhere (in either the oft-maligned English speaking press or any other language) that "Peter Collins gave up the title to Fangio". Every reference I have seen stated that he gave up the CHANCE of winning the title, or words to that effect. But no doubt you will now prove me wrong.

His title hopes at the start of the race were undoubtedly slim but got progressively less slim as the race progressed. But whether he had the mental agility to work all the permutations of points finishes during the heat of the race I somehow doubt. Suffice it to say that what he did remains a very magnanimous gesture, probably decided on the spur of the moment. (It must also be remembered of course that Fangio's original car was repaired and went on to finish 8th in the hands of Castellotti).

Finally, Paul Frere, in his autobiography, wrote a very poignant paragrah:

"Peter's death affected me most of all as he was one of the best friends I had amongst the racing fraternity. At the time of their accidents Scott Brown, Musso & Collins were on the heels of the leader of the race. It was the ardour in trying to make up those few yards which separated them from the leader which made them commit the infinitessimal error of judgement which under those circumstances is fatal"

[Don Capps]

Let me make something very clear, I genuinely liked Peter Collins at the time and still do. Next to Moss, he was my favorite Brit, generally being the one that got the "nod" among us schoolboys in "the know" over Mike Hawthorn.

I think that the story of the race at Monza got tweaked a tad and certain aspects of it downplayed at the time and later. Most accounts rush over or blur the words "chance" or "opportunity" and tend to present it as literally "handing" the championship to Fangio. That is the issue or tangent that seems to be the dead cow we are beating for that extra drop of glue....

[Roger Clark]

Getting back to the original theme, this is by Denis Jenkinson.

"I was driving my Porsche up to Aintree for the 1957 British Grand Prix , and on a stretch of road north of Kidderminster, I came upon a big articulated lorry. The road was winding at this point, so I could not get by, but at every opportunity I would nip out and have a look to see if there was any hope of geting by, and obviously the driver had seen the blue Porsche in his mirror. Eventually the road straightened out a bit and I flashed my headlights and began to accelerate past the trailer part of the lorry. An arm came out of the cab and waved me on, but not in hte normal courteous way we are told lorry drivers wave-on fast cars, but in that well-known fashion employed by local van-drivers, which to people coming the other way looks like a V for victory sign. I was just thinking "rude lorry driver" and deciding to carve in close as I went by, when I drew level with the cab, and looking up I saw Peter Collins at the wheel, roaring with laughter and continuing to wave derisively. We stopped a short distance further on and had a natter, and it seemed that his father wanted this new articulated truck delivered to Liverpool, and Peter was going to Aintree to race, so what better than to use it to go up to practice and then take it to its new owner. Later that day I saw Peter in his articulated lorry once again, this time at the Aintree gates, trying to convince a commissionaire that he was a competitor and that his competitor's pas allowed him to take a lorry into the "Lawn" car park. He was another racing driver who enjoyed life, took it as it came, and made the most of it, having fun and yet capable of being as serious as the next man when the occasion called for it."

[Wolf]

Originally posted by Roger Clark
Getting back to the original theme, this is by Denis Jenkinson.
An arm came out of the cab and waved me on, but not in hte normal courteous way we are told lorry drivers wave-on fast cars, but in that well-known fashion employed by local van-drivers, which to people coming the other way looks like a V for victory sign.

What a delightful way of describing that sign.

Thanx for the laugh, Roger.

[Don Capps]

As I said, Peter Collins rates high in my Book regardless of Monza for things like what DSJ wrote. And, I must confess, he was always wonderful to us schoolboys lurking in the paddock and treated us like 'gents. It was terrible day when he died. For once, I was happy to miss a race....

[Joe Fan]

Originally posted by Wolf
From what I gather Peter had a chance to win the championship, albeit slim* at the time he handed his car to Fangio, chance nevertheless. For example, Moss's car breaking down was not so unexpected and he could've inherited the lead and won... I mean he could not have known that Moss will cover the distance. What I mean he relinquished any chance of winning the championship the moment he handed his car to Fangio. He could've made it, he could've failed but he chose to hand his car to Fangio.

* the way I see it (and correct me if I'm wrong) Moss was out of contention and the battle was between Fangio and Collins, which had to win and have a FL with Fangio's DNF to win or the C'ship or win w/o FL to tie with Fangio on 30 pts. Fangio's DNF was thing that came to pass at that point so his fate would be theoretically in his hands- if he could've managed to win or not...

Wolf is spot on regarding this. Theoretically Collins did hand his hopes of a championship over to Fangio. One has to consider this, Collins was running third when he handed his car over to Fangio with about 15 laps left in the race. The only two drivers capable of winning the championship before the race were Fangio and Collins. Musso was leading when he retired on lap 47 due to a broken steering arm. So this would have put Moss and Collins in a battle for the race win. If Collins wins, he ties Fangio in points with 30 and takes the championship by virture of having the most outright wins. Who is to say that Fangio, who finished 5.7 seconds behind Moss and already had the championship in the bag, was really running as hard as he could? If Fangio wins, then the argument that Collins should have been champion gains steam and makes Fangio look bad. By finishing second, then the argument that Collins would have been champion loses steam.

[Joe Fan]

One more question, why was Fangio put in Collins car in the first place if it wasn't to secure the championship for Fangio? There was no Constructors Championship in 1956 and Fangio wasn't racing any other driver for the WDC other than Collins since Collins and he were the only ones that had a statistical chance of winning the title before the race. This is why I think such a big deal was made out of Peter handing over his car to Fangio.

[Roger Clark]

Originally posted by Joe Fan
One more question, why was Fangio put in Collins car in the first place if it wasn't to secure the championship for Fangio?

To try to win the Italian Grand Prix.

[Mike Argetsinger]

Originally posted by oldtimer

The Wyer book also gives hints about the off-track high jinks in the Aston Martin team. Rob Walker's contribution has the heading " I have a vague recollection of pouring Peter Collins into a New York City garbage can."

That must have been some party. In Michael Cooper-Evans' book Rob remembers it this way:

"I don't remember much about New York except, after a very long and liquid evening at The Gay Nineties, being rolled down 46th Street in a wire litter basket by Peter Collins, Roy Salvadori and Pat Griffith. No doubt they hoped that the trash wagon would come along and dispose of me."

This story was immediately post Sebring in 1954.


Rob Walker and Michael Cooper-Evans offer another insight on Peter Collins in the same book.

"Following his victory at LeMans, and his very successful season in single-seaters, Tony Rolt decided that the time had come for him to retire from motor racing, and Peter Collins replaced him in the Walker team for the 1954 Formula Two series." (Cooper-Evans)

"Tony was a gentleman driver and he drove like a gentleman; if someone who was obviously faster wanted to pass him, Tony would move over to let him through. Peter was quite different. He was my first professional driver, and he really opened my eyes to what the cut and thrust of truly competitive racing was like. I remember one race at Crystal Palace which was run in two ten-lap heats; in the first heat Horace Gould in a Cooper-Bristol got the drop on Peter at the start and then blocked him for the whole ten laps. During the interval I heard Peter saying to Horace, "If you do that to me again, Horace, I'll push you off." Horace did, and Peter pushed him off. And won. Peter had the most incredible will to win." (Rob Walker)

"It was this will to win which later endeared Peter Collins to Enzo Ferrari who, after the death of Dino, treated him like a surrogate son. And in all probability, it was this will to win which killed him at the Nurburgring in August 1958." (Cooper-Evans)

[William Hunt]

Great stories Mike, thanks !

[dmj]

During the interval I heard Peter saying to Horace, "If you do that to me again, Horace, I'll push you off." Horace did, and Peter pushed him off. And won.

Ah, so: at the end Senna wasn't the one who invented this!
As a Senna fan I think I'll start to rate Collins more highly...

[Vrba]

Originally posted by dmj

Ah, so: at the end Senna wasn't the one who invented this!
As a Senna fan I think I'll start to rate Collins more highly...

Senna re-invented and perfected the art :-)

Hrvoje

[Mike Argetsinger]

Yet another contemporary quote illustrating still more of this unique and complex personality and great talent. This from Autosport founder Gregor Grant.

"Peter Collins was held in high esteem by everyone with whom he came in contact. Mechanics, especially, would do anything for him. He was always ready to help them, but never interfered in the preparation of cars. Although he did possess a certain amount of technical knowledge, he would never suggest anything that would involve the mechanics in needless endeavour. He always maintained that he was hired to drive the cars, not to design them. Ferrari has lost many drivers during the past several years, but whenever Peter Collins's name is mentioned, the Commendatore will reminisce: 'That was really a great one...' "

[oldtimer]

Originally posted by Vrba


Senna re-invented and perfected the art :-)

Hrvoje

And he didn't give warnings

[David J Jones]

If you are really into this era and Peter, there are two videos -

Champions - Hawthorn and Collins. Phil Hill's interview casts some light on the circumstances of Peters crash.

I do not know the title but there is also one about the entire 56 season

Both are available in the UK from Duke Videos

[Giraffe]

Directed by an old girlfriend of Peter's by the name of Juliet, I visited his grave in Stone, Worcestershire today.......

 

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A number of current F1 drivers need to revert to this young gentleman for the definition of class & style.

Edited by Giraffe, 15 August 2015 - 07:11.

[Slurp1955]

Nice shots Tony, I've dropped in on the churchyard a couple of times when back in my home town of Kidderminster. Peter's memorial in Stone is very close to where the Collin's original family Garage was in Mustow Green. There is also a stained glass window in the church dedicated to Peter. 1958 was a terrible year for Worcestershire, we lost both our great local sporting heroes, Collins and the incomparable Duncan Edwards, JohnP

Edited by Slurp1955, 16 August 2015 - 10:18.

[Eric Dunsdon]

Its good to see so much discussion about Peter who was a schoolboy/teenage hero of mine. Back in the 1950's we didnt get all this 'media gossip' that surrounds todays Eff One Tyros.

We relied on Motor Sport and Autosport and what little contact we had when geting an autograph in a raceday paddock. I was lucky enough to manage this with Peter several times and he was always friendly and generous with his time. A super bloke. I saw hime drive many cars and win many races including his final win in the 1958 British Grand Prix.

He remains a hero of mine to this day.

[Giraffe]

Nice shots Tony, I've dropped in on the churchyard a couple of times when back in my home town of Kidderminster. Peter's memorial in Stone is very close to where the Collin's original family Garage was in Mustow Green. There is also a stained glass window in the church dedicated to Peter. One small point, all this is in the glorious county of Worcestershire, not Warks. 1958 was a terrible year for Worcestershire, we lost both our great local sporting heroes, Collins and the incomparable Duncan Edwards, JohnP

Thankyou John, now corrected. I can imagine the late D.McK will have pointed out my glaring mistake to PC at the bar up there already, I'd wager!

The church was locked up (as sadly so many have to be these days) when I visited, and so I was unable to view the window properly, but I intend to return.

[Slurp1955]

If you find yourself in Kidderminster, it's worth taking the Bridgnorth Road (A442) north of the town for a couple of miles. There you will find an nice little hostelry called "The Bellman's Cross". This is where my uncles taught me drinking. On the opposite side of the road, set back a bit, is Shatterford Grange, the Collins family home. This was I believe an overnight stop for some of Peter's fellow drivers when they were making their way "oop north" to Oulton, JohnP

[Eric Dunsdon]

If its of any interest, I forgot to mention that after seeing Peter give the new P25 such a promising debut in the televised Oulton Olulton Park Gold Cup race in 1955, I wrote him a rather gushing letter congratulating him on his drive and (being a BRM fan) my hopes of more to come in 1956. In return I received a very nice letter, giving advice on how to achieve my schoolboy dreams of becoming a racing driver. Peter also enclosed a signed photo of himself in the Mk2 V16 at Snetterton. Of course, in 1956 Peter opted for Modena rather than Bourne, achieving greater success in doing so!. Sadly, his letter hasnt survived parental clearances and house moves,  but I still have the photo!.