19 replies to this topic

[The Swerve]

Right then. I got a bit tired of all this Johnny bashing and I decided to take a step back and really look at the big picture of Johnny's season so far. I think it tells a different story from the one you all seem to to believe. Whether you like it or not Herbert's season has barely begun and he has suffered non stop technical and reliablity problems. When he has had a clear run he has been quicker than Irvine.

I believe that Johnny will still finish the season on a high and will not be dominated by Eddie Irvine (a driver who you all detested not that long ago.) The cars seems good, the engine is definatly good and the potential is there for some points finishes.

Read this and then tell me that Herbert's situation is down to a lack of talent.

AUSTRALIAN GRAND PRIX

Friday Practice - A furious Johnny Herbert stomped back to the pits after his first day as a Jaguar driver was plagued by mechanical problems. He completed just 11 laps in two hour-long sessions and his car broke down twice leaving him 17th.

Herbert had been determined to start the season on a high note after the trials and tribulations of reliability that haunted him for most of last year.

"The day was a complete disaster," he said. "I don't ever want to have a day like this again. I had engine problems and electronic problems. It didn't need to happen."

Qualifying - More reliability problems, "This is the worst pre-race buildup I can remember. I went out on my first lap, took it easy with the plan to push on the second and, as I started, the engine cut out on turn two. I got back to the pits jumped in the spare car and as left the garage I lost the power steering and had all sorts of handling problems with the front end. The car was pulling really badly to the right and was pretty much undriveable. I struggled to get it round to start my quick lap and had the same problem in exactly the same place.

Race - A double failure for Jaguar at the Australian Grand Prix. Herbert went out after lap one with clutch problems and was followed five laps later by team mate Eddie Irvine as Jaguar's debut season in F1 began disastrously in Melbourne.

"It's been a difficult weekend for everybody," said Herbert. "I had a great start, got into a good position then the clutch started to slip on the exit of turn two and gradually got worse. It's very frustrating as I haven't done many laps since I've been here.

BRAZILIAN GRAND PRIX

Friday Practice - Although he was marginally quicker than Eddie in the morning Herbert's car failed in the second session. "We had the same problem with the final drive that we had in Australia, but this time it stopped me completely. Hopefully we'll qualify in the top eight - in the end."

Qualifying - Herbert lost some track time in the morning practice session with a fuel pump problem but was faster than Eddie again. In the qualifying session Johnny did not get a decent run in before the track was soaked. Johnny had to settle for 17th place, 0.825s down on his team-mate.

In the Race - Johnny Herbert, starting from 17th position, was running in 10th place when he retired with a gearbox problem on lap 50. He ran as high as 8th before the pitstops.

SILVERSTONE TEST

Herbert drove in the wet conditions during the morning, setting a best of 1:31.25s with Irvine taking over the car for some dry running for the rest of the day.

IMOLA GRAND PRIX

Friday Practice -

Johnny pulled off the track after just seven laps in the morning session when a cloud of smoke erupted from the rear of his car. The team later discovered that a water system leak had led to the problem. He ended up 7th fastest - quicker than Eddie again - this time by 0.5 a second.

1. M.Schumacher Ferrari 1:26.944
2. Barrichello Ferrari 1:27.317 + 0:00.373
3. Coulthard McLaren Mercedes 1:27.372 + 0:00.428
4. Frentzen Jordan Mugen-Honda 1:27.730 + 0:00.786
5. Trulli Jordan Mugen-Honda 1:27.795 + 0:00.851
6. Hakkinen McLaren Mercedes 1:28.021 + 0:01.077
7. Herbert Jaguar Ford 1:28.139 + 0:01.195

12. Irvine Jaguar Ford 1:28.566 + 0:01.622

Qualifying -

Johnny did not have any major mechanical troubles, but struggled to get a good lap during the session - he ended up way off the pace in 17th. The time gap to Eddie was partly explained by his choice of the harder of the two tyre compounds - a gamble that did not pay off. And he was also hampered by a cracked exhaust.

In the Race - On a one-stop strategy, Johnny Herbert ran consistently to move from 17th on the grid to 10th at the finish.

[Ellen UK]

oh come on, Eddie had problems as well, but still managed to qualify in the top 4 rows twice. Johnny better show some speed and fast or he is history

[The Swerve]

Tell me what problems Eddie has had? The fact is Johnny has had almost all the problems (apart from Eddie's rev limiter switch at Imola)

[Mosquito]

Swerve,

I agree that much of his bad results could be accounted to ~bad~ luck. However, it seems Herbert is getting a lot of the ~bad luck~ pie all the time. BAD LUCK is something that should be written in large letters accross his CV.
Even without being suspersticious, as a team manager (with enough choice standing besides the track and already having an experienced driver like EI) I would have choosen somebody else...

And regarding your following statement:

The time gap to Eddie was partly explained by his choice of the harder of the two tyre compounds - a gamble that did not pay off.

Urrrhhhhh. The soft and harder tires made no real difference at all.
A lot of drivers opted for harder tires. Were they all considerably slower? Not!

[Bitten_&_Hisses]

Johnny should do a Damon Hill and Quit
Preferrably before the season ends

[Ivan]

Swerve,
I am a Herbert fan. However he had shitty luck last year too. He was gifted his victory when all the others fell out. But, now that Eddie's there his game has to change. Is he still having bad luck that carried over from last year?!!! No more plyers left from the mechanic. He has to put Eddie in his place sooooon.

[The Swerve]

From Jaguar.com

'Johnny Herbert had a frustrating time in the second Jaguar, and had to settle for 17th place. His choice of the harder tyre compound did not appear to pay dividends. "The end result is just not where I want to be," he explained.'

Bitten + Hisses - no offense but read the original post before you reply. I'm trying to look at the big picture - not just make off the cuff remarks.



[This message has been edited by The Swerve (edited 04-11-2000).]

[MichiganF1]

The only thing Johnny can cut these days is the cheese.

[Mosquito]

His choice of the harder tyre compound did not appear to pay dividends

It just states that he did not have any advantage from the harder compound. A team will always try to protect their drivers from criticism, esspecially if he's having a bad season. If the tyres would indeed have been so much slower, the statment would have been much more explicit like "...tyre choice costed him at least .5 of a second..."

It could be that the harder compound was slower in combination with the Jaguar, but this sounds like the normal Team excuses for not being on top, just as all the other teams do. (Look at Rich top ten things we never hear like "We had no problems at all during the race"

[The Swerve]

Mosquito, I think you are right - Michael Schumacher also ran the hard tyres but it is difficult to compare the two directly because of the chassis. However, Eddie ran the soft tyres and was a lot quicker in the same car and I don't believe he is any quicker.

Also, Johnny said that he has struggled a bit because he uses right foot braking and Eddie uses left foot which seems to allow him to brake deeper into the corners. I will admit that this is a bit of an excuse though. Johnny has to drive around it.

He seems to be excellent when things are going his way but not so hot when they aren't.

That isn't the point I'm making - what I am saying that interms of 'pure talent' Johnny is excellent. Converting that talent into on track performance seems to stump him sometimes. I just don't like to see him dissmissed as talentless when that simply isn't the case.

[John]

So far this year, the only time I have found Johnny's performance inexcusable was for Imola qualifying.

Given his good practise times, choosing the wrong tires does not let him off the hook. As a driver, that is part of the skill of setting up the car, and as a team, you have to support the cars so that they are the quickest on the track.

Otherwise, yes, he does have bad luck. As a fan of Johnny's, there is only so much I can tack before reality takes over. He should have qualified better at Imola.

[Eric]

As a huge Herbert fan it's frustrating to see how many problems he regularly has. On the other hand, he's got to put up some good qualifying times is he wants to keep his job, regardless of reasons. In race form he's solid, he rarely makes dumb mistakes, but if you're consistently qualifying outside the top ten it doesn't matter how good you race. Here's hoping that some home cooking will turn his season around.

Eric

[Mosquito]

He seems to be excellent when things are going his way but not so hot when they aren't.

...that interms of 'pure talent' Johnny is excellent. Converting that talent into on track performance seems to stump him sometimes.

Swerve,
I have to agree on those points. However, being good if the whole world seems to conspire against you is part of being a truly great driver. I think Herbert should get mentally stronger. Remember his problems at Benneton? But, he's a very nice chap with a good sense of humour, he just should get his act together.

I think people are indeed maybe a bit harsh after so much bad luck and just 3 races, but he has a history of being just talented. He had some impressive runs. But to be really impressive, you should ONLY have impressive runs.

We'll just have to wait for a couple of more races before when can make the final comparison between EI and JH. But if he flunks at Silverstone as well, I think it will get very hard to come up with valid excuses.

[Pacific]

Herbert has more race wins than Jean Alesi, they've both pretty much raced the same amount of races, and Alesi has had more competitive equipment over his career overall. It's interesting how Jean Alesi, a driver with a lot of unfulfilled talent, never gets slagged, but Johnny Herbert does. No doubt, if Johnny had ever driven a Ferrari, things would be different, but since he hasn't. Rubens Barrichello could go his entire career at Ferrari and never win a race and everybody would still love him. (And he's a likeable guy, but to see Herbert get so much flak while some other F1 drivers who everybody seems to love who haven't accomplished as much as Herbert)

Poor Johnny had to race for Lotus from 1990 through most of 1994. The reason that is is because of Herbert big crash at Brands Hatch in 1988. He was going to drive for Benetton in 1989, and did some, but he wasn't the same yet, can you expect him to be? So Benetton said maybe in another few seasons Well, in 1990 he surfaced again to fill in for fallen friend Martin Donnelly. We can only wonder about Martin now. One of my favorite F1 drivers, Karl Wendlinger, is the same. I mean, damn Karl did a good job with March and Sauber before his big accident at Monaco in 1994. Can you imagine Sauber with a healthy Wendlinger with Frentzen all year? I can only wish now. (Not that I disliked Andreas de Cesaris...) Had Johnny not had that crash, his career would have gone differently, and I don't think Michael Schumacher would have gotten his break with Benetton because they would have had Herbert at the time already instead of Moreno. Can't picture Herbert with Ferrari too much, maybe he would have ended up with Williams, no way with McLaren, they already had the drivers they needed. But a solid career with Benetton for many years would have been great for Johnny.

Now, this wasn't a put down towards Michael, he's great any way you cut it, but would Benetton have just cut a healthy Herbert who had been racing for them since 1989 regardless of Michael? I mean, Herbert was and is a bit better than Roberto Moreno. (Gotta love Roberto Moreno though, a fav of mine in CART.) Schumacher might have instead ended up caught with Jordan for years and we never would have been able to see Michael battle Damon Hill etc.

Give Herbert a break, but not like Gregor Foitek did. Thanks.

[Mosquito]

Pacific,

Do you type with all tens on the right places? How much words a minute do you make? Your post are always that long ;)
By the time I'm done reading, the topic has moved off to page 2 or 3 ;)

[Daemon]

Johnnys days are numbered. It was said last year, but then he came out and won again, but should have known that that win was not through talent alone, plenty of luck there. He should have ended it on a high note and retired. I can see him doing a D.Hill and making a fool of himself later in the season...

[vroom-vroom]

The big question in my mind is: did Johnny ever have it? People keep on referring to his accident, but was he THAT great before? He won the British F3 championship, OK. But it wasn't a sterling year for British F3. No other great talent came from that group: If I remember correctly, Bertrand Gachot - a mediocre to midfield F1 racer - gave him a good run for his money in F3.

[selena]

I agree with both of you, Swerve and Eric. Johnny certainly has talent but he has got to show he has it by getting good results on qualifying and race day. He must not qualify too far back. It is difficult to come up then. As a big fan of Johnny, I hope he gets to do well in Silverstone and I believe he can.

[The Swerve]

If the Jags don't do well at Silverstone then Ford will be VERY pissed off!

They are quite keen to see a 'sea of green' caps in the stands but I'll be there wearing a Williams cap in support of Jenson Button!!

[magnum]

Swerve since we're talking England/April I doubt whether you'll even be seeing a GP in the snow - and BTW why doncha just wear red and look like you know about the sport and whose gonna win hey?