8 replies to this topic

[bugeye]

This is probably a really dumb question, BUT

I was watching a speedvision special on old Ferrari's the other day (Which was spectacular BTW) and many of the cars smoked significantly (oil smoke) on startup despite the fact that they had not been sitting very long. These cars were owned by people like Mark Knopfler and Ralph Lauren and were obviously in excellent mechanical shape so I am assuming that this behavior is considered "Normal" so what's the deal? did they not use valve stem seals? are the rings different? Bean Oil? Clearences?

Bueller? Anyone?



BTW: SWB

[Pioneer]

Maybe its to maintain their cool old-school image.

You know, like action movie stars, french people, Joe Camel, etc. They smoke... and they look COOL.

[AdamLarnachJr]

Originally posted by Pioneer
Maybe its to maintain their cool old-school image.

You know, like action movie stars, french people, Joe Camel, etc. They smoke... and they look COOL.

That's great

I think it has to do with oil getting into the cylinders, valve seals weren't hardened back then to cope with unleaded fuels, maybe in Europe it was different, but here it was quite common. Another thing too, lots of those engines used carburetors if not all of them, (Thats why the SRP Ferrari didn't smoke, and dammit I wanna drive one of them too!). It could also be a rich condition when the car starts up because possibly fuel leaks down through the runners, and on startup it runs rich for a few seconds. My truck smoked big time, even though it is MP EFI, I installed injectors that were 6lbs too high and it took the computer a few seconds to compensate for the rich condition, then the smoke went away.

The Audi's also smoke like a diesel when the startup, except that Elf fuel smell's like crap unfortunatly.

BTW, those Victory by Design shows are awesome, did you watch the Porsche one the other night before Ferrari? Let's hope FOX doesn't F it up when they change it to SPEED Channel, woopidogollywhillickers Billy Sue! We get to watch dem dere stock cars run in dem damn circles!

[AS110]

Emmission controls didn't exist in those days,California was just a name on a map.

Valve seals,if fitted were rudimentary,sometimes just an umbrella seal.Piston rings were much thicker than today,and the oil control ring a simple design.Some race engines didn't even use an oil control ring,the compression rings can control oil by themselves.

If the owners of today spare no expence and only use the best oil,the fancy 0W/20 ester synth may be used at a higher rate than the straight 50 originaly used.

A touch of castor in the gas tank adds the final touch to the classic car experiance,and a bit more blue out the back!

[Yelnats]

All of that AS110 plus I believe clearances back then were much larger thus allowing leakage and blow by. I pressume this was a combination of poorer tolerance control and and the desire to run thicker oil films due to the poorer lubricants (Castor oil is made from a bean!). I do know that and old-timer car that doesn't smoke a bit is considered unauthentic so perhaps the old clearances are maintained to allow a bit of a puff now and then.

[marion5drsn]

Old cars did not have the modern piston rings and valve seals we have at this time. One must only look how long it took for the manufactures to adopt “U” seals for valve stem seals and later the use of more effective seal materials that could withstand the heat of the exhaust gases. Aircraft engines used to blow so much smoke on startup that one always made sure to be standing to one side of the exhaust pipes or one would be oiled down. Aircraft were rated on oil consumption per hour. About one (pint) pound per hour on 480 cubic inch engines was considered good. These engines turned slowly. One can see the old engines were not good on oil consumption. Old time engineers just took I it for granted that the engines would use oil. Just how many of us even check the oil level before a thousand miles. My V-6 Solera doesn’t even show a drop of oil level on the dipstick in over a thousand miles. I’ve had old Fords, Chevys and Plymouths that seemed to run on oil instead of gas. Ask any Corvair or Vega owner. I know I will get a lot of statements to the contrary but that is my experience. M.L.Anderson

[AS110]

yes,modern engines have very much closer clearances,this,along with nearly every other seeming advance in the modern engine,is a result of trying to meet emission regulations.

Modern engines run a lighter oil viscosity (5w/30 is common) and use piston rings with low wall tension.If a heavier grade oil is used,this overpowers the light rings and the engine starts to use oil,the cure is a lighter,not heavier oil.It's almost second nature to put thicker oil in an oil burner,and it will take some time to cure us of doing it.

But I still use a very thick oil in very worn motors (ones that need plugs 2 grades hotter) This oil is sae 70 and is almost solid in winter.It's not a nasty gloop to patch up old cars,but is an aircraft oil of high quality.Is this the oil used in those old radial aircraft engines marion5drsn? It just seems too thick to be used in an engine of high quality.

[marion5drsn]

AS110. The only book I have of the old oils is Colvins 1942 ,"AIRCRAFT HANDBOOK," 1942 and is about the old Lycoming aircooled engine O-145. Their recomendation is either S.A.E. 30 or 40 for summer and S.A.E. 20 for winter. This sounds much like automotive oils of that period. However the new olds of today are so superior to old oils it isn't even fruitfull to compare them as the additives in the oils of today put them in a class far about the oils of WW-2. Good detergent oils did not come about untill after WW-2. M.L. Anderson

[bugeye]

Thanks for the info folks ! That would explain it...