14 replies to this topic

[Nathan]

Im a HUGE Mugen fan. My little Civic is covered in Mugen parts. My dream is to race for Mugen (Japan F3 and F3000). In fact recently I was asked by a friend if Ferrari and Mugen (Jordan) offered me a ride, who would I go with...I said Mugen, unless I was #1 driver. (Hey its much less pressure and the Jordan team seems to have more fun than Ferrari, plus those girls )

So I see Honda has returned. Now my question is...what happens to Mugen? Honda clearly has been funding the Mugen F1 engine all along, as Honda owns 40% of Mugen.

My question is, since Mugen has helped Honda enter F-1, allowing Honda to never really loose touch with with the sport, will Honda give Mugen year old engines ala Petronas/Ferrari? I dont think its fair that Honda pulls the plug on Mugen, as I said Mugen did lots for Honda F1. I dont think Honda is willing to fund 2 engine programs. But would Honda be scared if say a year old Honda engine in a Jordan was faster than a Works BAR?

I really want Mugen to stay. Does anyone know whats happening here???

[Zeus]

I don't have any info on the matter, but my specualtion is that Mugen will be getting the short end of the stick. Honda has done it in the past, where a team helps the build up their engine program, then once it is ready, they jump to a new team (William '87-> McLaren '88).

This is true especailly since it is Honda's aim to work their way into the BAR team's structure, therefor it may be considered counter productive to be funding two seperate efforts at the same time.

Nathan, what Mugen parts do you have for your Civic? I love Mugen too, but I aould probably spend the value of the car over again in parts alone, and still have items left to buy.

[Todd]

Don't throw good money after bad. You can't polish a turd.

[Sudsbouy]

I just read today that Honda sold back the ownership interest they had in Mugen. I'm thinking that this may pretty well insulate Jordan from any engine developments that Honda comes up with now. Speculation is that Honda doesn't even want to think about the possibility of being beaten by their own technology (in the person of Mugen).

We have see a decline in their (Jordan's) relative performance this season, (they were knocking on the door of being a top tier team last season). Could this be why??

As we know, Mugen's engine is from an earlier generation and does not benefit from the "light is right" approach. Unless they get really aggressive and come out with a completely new engine family, they're probably going to fade away (costs are way too high for them to compete alone against the major engine manufacturers.

Thank you.

[Todd]

There is a Honda insider on another BB I frequent. He tows the company line and gave me the impression that Honda want to distance themselves from the Mugen effort in the eyes of casual fans. That seems to indicate that Honda will make certain that even if BAR sucks, Jordan will not out-achieve them. That is consistent with Honda's practices in every other form of racing, so it wouldn't surprise me. Did anyone other than me expect Jordan to only have 7 points after 3 races? It is especially poor when you consider that McLaren only had two points finishes, Jaguar has zero, and Williams has a first year engine that has only gone the distance in half their starts. Jordan had stability in all the key areas from last year and they couldn't capitalize on all this opportunity. Something isn't right there.

[Nikolas Garth]

Nathan,
Are you a "Ricer"?

[Mr. Salty]

Damn Nik. You beat me to it!

[Wishbone]

What's a "Ricer"?

------------------
"Racing is life. Everything else is just waiting"

[IRISH]

Such a shame if Jordan slip now..
Mabey they will go back with Peugeot when Prost switches to Merc next year?
They did well with them in the past.

[Sudsbouy]

I think Mr. Trulli will have some regrets about which team he decided to drive for over the next two seasons. I'm sure the troubles Jordan has had this year bring back too many memories of last season.

F1 can be very frustrating in its waste of talent. Getting on the right team, at the right time is so crucial to anyone's prospects of doing well.

Thank you.

[Samurai]

Yes, Honda and Mugen have become separate entities.
Sudsbouy, I've heard that Honda's engine also is heavy and that may be a drag resulting in the speed they're getting presently (It is not enough!) + the BAR chassis of course!

Originally posted by Sudsbouy:
As we know, Mugen's engine is from an earlier generation and does not benefit from the "light is right" approach.

[vroom-vroom]

I think Mr. Trulli will have some regrets about which team he decided to drive for over the next two seasons. I'm sure the troubles Jordan has had this year bring back too many memories of last season.

Yup, I'm sure he's banging his head against the wall right now. Prost! is such a top team.

[Nathan]

Well that sucks hard core...why did Honda sell of Mugen?

As for the question about being a riceboy...

well I was born into Ford, raised on Ford, and as every other teenager, rebelled and went to Hondas and other Japanese cars. Their technology is what attracted me.

As for the weight of the Honda engine, I think they designed it without Berylium. They knew they would not be in winning form this year, so began to prepare for next years rules before the others next year. Sounds like a good plan to me!

[DaveK]

For what it's worth, Formula 1.com has an article there that says Jordan will only see this 'B' spec Honda engine that BAR is testing after Montreal. I think they've been sniffing too much glue. Every single bit of info I've heard says they are two separate engine deals. Formula 1.com = wankers

[Sudsbouy]

Vroom...

When I spoke of regrets that Trulli may have regarding his choice of Jordan, I didn't mention that his other choice was Ferrari (rumor, et al).

I don't believe he seriously considered staying at Prost. Although, their prospects for being competitive would change if they get the rumoured Daimler-Chrysler engine deal.

Thank you.