47 replies to this topic

[liamoohay]

I cannot recall if F1 ever had a black driver before. I think the closest a black driver nearly got to F1 was that Den Bla Avis driver Jason Watt, the FIA F3000 vice champion from Sweden or Denmark who later got paralysed from a motor cycle accident. His name is Jason Watt, I think.

My question is: Would Lewis Hamilton, the McLaren protege be the first black in F1 if he were to make it there ? Or even if he's half black.

[sennadog93]

Yes. In F1 anyway. There was a guy in CART whose name escapes me at the moment who is black - around the time of Mansell in the early 90s.

[F1Johnny]

Yes. I believe Lewis Hamilton would be the first driver of black descent. Just from pictures I've seen he seems to be part black. The guy who drove in CART was Willy T Ribbs. He raced NASCAR trucks last year.

PS Don't worry Liamoohay you don't need to qualify your thread by saying you are not racist.

[liamoohay]

Thanks Sennadog93 and F1Johnny.

I am a sort of a sports science freak, so I can conclude that F1 is really quite a white man sport.

Just want to research abit on why though. Cannot be costs of early racing years, since Tiger made it to the predominantly white based sport of golf.

[Ferrari_F1_fan_2001]

would someone Muslim make it into F1? there seems to be alot of Muslims in F1 - Malaysia, that Nigerian price who had a share in the Arrows F1 team (dont think he does anymor), Turkey and an Arab country trying to get in on the scene as well, but i think it would be equally as hard for a muslim to get into F1 (racing wise) as it would be a black person- not impossible though, Muslims arent very popular at the moment, (sept 11th incidents etc) i'm muslim myself and i was faced with discrimination after sept 11th, hmm, just makes u think how small minded people are, anyway i wish Lewis Hamilton all the luck in the world
Go Lewis!

[Toyoter]

Quote

Originally posted by F1Johnny
Yes. I believe Lewis Hamilton would be the first driver of black descent. Just from pictures I've seen he seems to be part black. The guy who drove in CART was Willy T Ribbs. He raced NASCAR trucks last year.

PS Don't worry Liamoohay you don't need to qualify your thread by saying you are not racist.

Willy T. Ribbs also drove in Trans Am last year. I have a soft spot in my heart for Willy because he piloted one of the AAR Celicas in IMSA's GTO class in 1987. That's probably my favorite racecar of all time . Too bad I can't find a die-cast model of it anywhere .

[DEVO]

Why title your message with "I'm no racist...", why not just ask the question?

[liamoohay]

Quote

Devo:
Why title your message with "I'm no racist...", why not just ask the question?

Why ? Don't know. Maybe because the sky is so high. Or maybe because I don't want to offend any blacks here. Maybe I was trying to chose which word to use...black, or colored or negro...I'm not white myself so just want to be polite I suppose. Does that disturb you ?

[alain]

Quote

Originally posted by liamoohay

Why ? Don't know. Maybe because the sky is so high. Or maybe because I don't want to offend any blacks here. Maybe I was trying to chose which word to use...black, or colored or negro...I'm not white myself so just want to be polite I suppose. Does that disturb you ?

Are there any blacks here at all?

[SeanValen]

Hope we see a black driver in f1 sometime soon. Even more great to have Africa back on the calender.
That Indian driver who had a test for Jag a while back was interesting, good that were seeing them near f1.

More diverse f1 drivers around the world can only be for the good, for a world championship event
Excellent

[F1Johnny]

Not sure why it matters but Yes Alain.

[fiftyeggs]

here's the reason not to preface your remarks with "I'm no racist":

Most people who preface their remarks this way are about to say something racist (or sexist, or anti-semitic, or whatever)!

You did NOT do that, fortunately, but I think that's one reason why people had reactions to the title of your thread.

[Booster]

I don't want to sound rude or disrespectful, but I really don't see the point in this thread, specially with that title.

Black, white, yellow, green, polka dot... Do you really care that much about color ? If you don't wish to "sound" racist, then just don't start a thread with a race/color connotation.... I guess you already know that by now.

No hard feelings really.

[DEVO]

I would be offended if I were black and somebody came up to me and said... "I'm no racist, just wanted to say hi". Is that how you greet "non-white" people??? And by offended... I don't mean that I think you are a racist, I'll just think you are stupid.

[liamoohay]

Quote

Ferrari_F1_fan_2001: would someone Muslim make it into F1? there seems to be alot of Muslims in F1 - Malaysia, that Nigerian price who had a share in the Arrows F1 team (dont think he does anymor), Turkey and an Arab country trying to get in on the scene as well,

Yup, me too...I really hope that Hamilton will make it there. I will cheer for him even if he is no Senna. And I'm very respectful of Ben Sulayam who is a world class rally driver. Mohamad Ali and Cat Stevens are Muslim. I just hope that if a minority makes it to F1 people won't slag them as they get in against all odds. BTW, Alex Yoong is from a Muslim country but although he's not Muslim he's half Chinese which means he's as much a minority as Hamilton.

[El Presidente]

Sheeeesh, its amazing how some people are so over-sensitive regarding racial issues. The title of this thread is fine, and the topic is fine....

As far as blacks in F1 are concerned, F1 is not as physical as other sports (track & field, football, basketball, etc.), so that may have something to do with it...

[liamoohay]

Quote

Devo:
I would be offended if I were black and somebody came up to me and said... "I'm no racist, just wanted to say hi". Is that how you greet "non-white" people??? And by offended... I don't mean that I think you are a racist, I'll just think you are stupid.

No, Devo, it's not the same as "I'm no racist, just want to say hi"...what I prefaced is like a blind man meeting a black man but he asked, "Excuse me, I'm no racist but are you black ?"...I didn't know for a fact if there were any black F1 driver before so I prefaced...if I hadn't and there were two or three before, I would have offended my black brothers. So why all this guilt riden reactions from you guys over a real intention to do some research. Is this forum only for those who had chalked up 2000 odd posts and more or what ? A newbie is not welcomed or what ?

[DEVO]

There is such a thing as being too politically correct. You wouldn't have offended anybody by asking the question without saying I'm no racist... If I were a blind man wanting to find out the race of somebody that I just met, I would say, I'm blind, could you please tell me your race? Is that too hard to understand? I have white friends that act so stupid around my black friends, because they don't want to "offend." I find it funny. And I don't attack newbies, just dumb titled post.

[Tech_Nut]

Quote

Originally posted by Toyoter


Willy T. Ribbs . I have a soft spot in my heart for Willy because he piloted one of the AAR Celicas in IMSA's GTO class in 1987. That's probably my favorite racer of all time

Hmm. Willy T managed to hurt several people in his (non) star-studded career. One track marshall was killed by Willy. I can tell you that inside the INDY/CART circle very, very few people have "soft spots in their hearts" for a certain Mr Ribbs.

Never forget. He's a track-marshal murderer....

[Booster]

Quote

Originally posted by liamoohay

Yup, me too...I really hope that Hamilton will make it there. I will cheer for him even if he is no Senna. And I'm very respectful of Ben Sulayam who is a world class rally driver. Mohamad Ali and Cat Stevens are Muslim. I just hope that if a minority makes it to F1 people won't slag them as they get in against all odds. BTW, Alex Yoong is from a Muslim country but although he's not Muslim he's half Chinese which means he's as much a minority as Hamilton.

Hum... First your start with blacks, now it's not only color but religion ??? The reactions you get are not related to the fact that you are a newbie ( I am one myself ) but has a lot to do with your "fixation" on so called "minorities".

Muslim here, black there... Hey, I don't give a "fig newton" which gawd he praises to... or what color he/she is.... as long as he/she can drive a F1 car with success, I'm a happy camper.

All this talk about religion, race, color is simply racist by definition. F1 has nothing to do with those criterias as far as I know. Never did, never will...

[liamoohay]

OK, Devo, perhaps you are the smart one here and I'm the stupid one. My mother tongue is Chinese, so you wouldn't understand why it's polite to bow till your face hit your knees like the Japanese do or why it's polite for Arabs to burp after a meal or why the Chinese slurp their soup and tea.

I must apologies to you profusely as my English is not my first language so you must be right, clever and are giving me good advice. I am stupid and I'm sorry and I apologies. Is that why the Americans and British are reading the Korran now to get to know the Muslims that they had never bothered to know before...till after Sept 11th anyway. I've apologised for upsetting you...is that enough ?

Just wished whites don't judge non-whites by their standards ao much...wonder how you would be treated by the Chinese if you were to learn Chinese and you used it wrongly.

[Peter North]

Quote

Originally posted by Ferrari_F1_fan_2001
would someone Muslim make it into F1? there seems to be alot of Muslims in F1 - Malaysia, that Nigerian price who had a share in the Arrows F1 team (dont think he does anymor), Turkey and an Arab country trying to get in on the scene as well, but i think it would be equally as hard for a muslim to get into F1 (racing wise) as it would be a black person- not impossible though, Muslims arent very popular at the moment, (sept 11th incidents etc) i'm muslim myself and i was faced with discrimination after sept 11th, hmm, just makes u think how small minded people are, anyway i wish Lewis Hamilton all the luck in the world
Go Lewis!

Alex Yoong is Malaysian, so it's quite possible he is Muslim considering that the majority of Malaysians are Muslims. I may be wrong on this, though.

[Crazy Canuck]

Quote

Originally posted by Tech_Nut


Hmm. Willy T managed to hurt several people in his (non) star-studded career. One track marshall was killed by Willy. I can tell you that inside the INDY/CART circle very, very few people have "soft spots in their hearts" for a certain Mr Ribbs.

Never forget. He's a track-marshal murderer....

did he do it on purpose?

CC

[DEVO]

Look, this is getting out of hand. My advice would be, assume that everybody will view you as not a racist, so you don't have to state the obvious. BTW, english is my second language as well... so I understand what you mean about being misunderstood.

[liamoohay]

Let's just say that I heard your advice and that if I were to do that again, it should not upset you as it's just my way or culture for declaring what I'm not. While you live in the US of A, I live amongst people who don't speak English, you must understand. Just curious why I've offended some people when I merely meant what I said and I had to apologies and after that you are still angry with me. Let's drop it now shall we Devo ?


I wonder if someone else can help me with some info on a Thai driver who had done British F3 for a few years. What is he doing now ? We had Prince Bira from Thailand before. Has this guy in the Brit F3 the same chance as Hamilton to get into F1 ?

[Ferrari_F1_fan_2001]

Quote

Originally posted by liamoohay

Yup, me too...I really hope that Hamilton will make it there. I will cheer for him even if he is no Senna. And I'm very respectful of Ben Sulayam who is a world class rally driver. Mohamad Ali and Cat Stevens are Muslim. I just hope that if a minority makes it to F1 people won't slag them as they get in against all odds. BTW, Alex Yoong is from a Muslim country but although he's not Muslim he's half Chinese which means he's as much a minority as Hamilton.

So is Mike Tyson and once/still best football player in the world ,Zinedene Zidane, bet alot of people didnt know that did they?

anyway race or religion should not ever been an issue, its talent and quality that count in my opinion and if they're good enough to make they grade then they should be welcomed aboard with open arms no matter what colour or religion they are

[DEVO]

Consider it dropped.

But let me ask you this, would you have asked the question in your native tongue the same way? Or was the translation the problem? Would you ask: I'm not a racist but has there been any Chinese driver in F1? The reason I ask is because in your last post, you posted the question perfectly ("I wonder if someone else can help me with some info on a Thai driver who had done British F3 for a few years.")... without a preface of not to offend Thai people in it.

Anyway, I'm not upset, I can see that you didn't mean to offend and it just came out the wrong way or I was on the moral high horse at the time.

[Ivan]

Quote

Originally posted by alain
Are there any blacks here at all?

YES Did you assume there were none? You know what they say about Assumtions?!

Funny thing about Willie T. Ribbs. Before he became a journeyman driver, he was actually very good. Richard Childress wanted him in his prime but, something prevented it from happening, he hired the late great Dale Earnhardt instead.

[Cobra]

Wow this thread is getting too much! Liamoohay, like most in this post, I agree that this thread would have flowed better if you would have just titled it without the "I'm no racist" (maybe you should of rephrased that "I'm no racer"). What Devo was trying to get across, is the point of being your natural self and use this BB as casually as you would...say...converse with people in Malaysia. Honestly, I couldn't care less what the drivers look like; they all wear full face helmets anyways!

[Nikolas Garth]

Quote

Originally posted by F1Johnny
Not sure why it matters but Yes Alain.

Having seen his posts on other forums, I think I know why sadly.

[Toyoter]

Quote

Originally posted by Tech_Nut


Hmm. Willy T managed to hurt several people in his (non) star-studded career. One track marshall was killed by Willy. I can tell you that inside the INDY/CART circle very, very few people have "soft spots in their hearts" for a certain Mr Ribbs.

Never forget. He's a track-marshal murderer....

Whoa. I didn't follow his career much past his IMSA days with AAR. I don't think it's a very good idea to imply that he's a "murderer." I strongly doubt he saw the guy and purposely ran him down. Do you also consider JV to be a "murderer" because of his blunder in Melbourne last year?

[DEVO]

Toyoter... JPM does.

[Crazy Canuck]

Quote

Originally posted by Toyoter


Whoa. I didn't follow his career much past his IMSA days with AAR. I don't think it's a very good idea to imply that he's a "murderer." I strongly doubt he saw the guy and purposely ran him down. Do you also consider JV to be a "murderer" because of his blunder in Melbourne last year?

Or Frentzen for his in Italy '99?

CC




Tech_Nut - dont be rediculous

[F1Johnny]

What the hell is wrong with you Tech_Nut? Was Willy T ever brought before the courts for any wrongdoing in this "murder"? Settle down Tech_Nut. Does he owe you money or something? Willy T was neither my favourite driver but c'mon I seriously doubt he committed murder when he hit that Marshal. Can you describe the event so that others can form their own opinion.

[Cobra]

Willy T Ribbs was also involved in an indoor midget car accident that resulted in the death of a crew member. It happened after his Cart days in an Indianpolis Arena and it was just a freak accident; coupled with the Indy Vancouver tragedy, he's had a some cruel luck. I remember when he was in consideration for a Brabham drive in back sponsor Olivetti wanted an Italian driver.

[The Tiger]

Wow!

You guys should all go find a nice political chat and have a go at it over there, and leave this incredible Formula 1 BB to the people really interested in it.

By the way Liamoohay, I do not see any wrong doing in posting your question, the problem is we probably have some extra sensitive people lurking arround here with no more interesting Formula 1 stuff to talk about.

A word of advice guys, if you do not have anything nice to say, please, opt for keeping it shut.

[liamoohay]

Good morning everyone ! It is 11am here. A very happy lunar new year of the horse to all Chinese from all over the world who visit Atlas F1 and this Bulletin Board ! Gong Xi Fa Cai (pronounced Gong Xi Fa Chai translated means 'wish you great prosperity') !
Malaysia today celebrates this holiday with an official two days public holidays but most things are a standstill for at least a whole week.

Not to forget all our very varied Formula 1 fans and friends who are white, brown, yellow or 'purple' from every corner of this world from all faiths, who do not celebrate Lunar New Year, I wish you all that you'll all be happy, be safe and be successful.

Our country comprise around 60% Malays who are all Muslims, 33% Chinese who are mostly Buddhists and Christians, 5% Indians who are mostly Hindus and 2% others. For each culture and religion there are their public holidays officially declared and recognised by our government even though such holidays are for the minorities. I am very proud of the fact that all Malaysians are living harmoniously (bar a few thousand out of 22 million who are trouble makers, religious and racist bigots).

Today, like the Muslim end of Ramadhan celebrations and like the Indians' Deepavali celebrations, we are having 'open houses' which is a great Malaysian tradition of welcoming everyone to our houses to share our hospitality, goodwill, food and drinks.

The world today is a little fragile and consequently sports like Formula 1 are suffering. I love Formula 1 and I pray that we all be a little more understanding and a little more compassionate to add to our extreme passion for the sport that we all love, in order to continue enjoying this great sport of Formula 1.

[JForce]

How do you feel about Alex Yoong being in F1? The general consensus (correct me if I'm wrong here guys) seems to be that, while Alex can obviously drive a car, he is only in F1 because of the money he brings? Are you proud to have a Malaysian driver in F1? I know I'd be proud to have a kiwi in F1, just wondered whether all the negative speculation over Alex's performance (see http://www.atlasf1.c...&threadid=35090 to see what others think)

might unease you at all.

Genuinely interested in your comments on Alex Yoong.

The Force

[liamoohay]

Why go back that far JForce ?

That thread you suggested was way back in January.

I recommend that we go to the thread below and post our views there as it would be more relevant since it was started a week ago and includes the Valencia tests. Has a very good Valencia test times analysis of Yoong and Webber by 'Shays' there as well.

[URL=http://www.atlasf1.com/bb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=35690[/URL]

Oh, I am proud to see a Malaysian in F1 but that's biased as I'm Malaysian. I would be proud too to see an Indian or a Chinese or an Indonesian or an Arab get into F1 as these including Malaysia are third world yet to be termed 'developed' countries. I would also be very proud to see a minority group representative like Lewis Hamilton make F1 one day soon.. ..before seeing a woman in F1....not to say I'm chauvinistic, oooops ! Sorry, sorry Dutra...didn't mean that, sorryyyyy...ok, ok. ..delete that part of 'not to say I'm chauvinistic'......

[liamoohay]

Sorry let me try that link I recommend once again. If I fail, please go to the topic 'Is Alex Yoong that slow ?':

Is Alex Yoong That Slow ?

[Rob29]

Quote

Originally posted by Tech_Nut


Hmm. Willy T managed to hurt several people in his (non) star-studded career. One track marshall was killed by Willy. I can tell you that inside the INDY/CART circle very, very few people have "soft spots in their hearts" for a certain Mr Ribbs.

Never forget. He's a track-marshal murderer....

I have read some pretty strange things,since I joined this forum a year ago,but an accusation of murder? I remember Willy T Ribbs racing in Formula Ford in England,and he seemed a decent enough chap.To return to the original question, the answer is YES. Apart fron a few Japanese,the only non-white person to have raced in F1WC was Prince Bira.

[liamoohay]

Quote

Rob29 posted:
I have read some pretty strange things,since I joined this forum a year ago,but an accusation of murder? I remember Willy T Ribbs racing in Formula Ford in England,and he seemed a decent enough chap.To return to the original question, the answer is YES. Apart fron a few Japanese,the only non-white person to have raced in F1WC was Prince Bira.

I agree with you Rob. And if I may add, I think media like AtlasF1 or even Autosport and the FIA official publications should give this man some exposure, not so much as to laud his career (which is mediocre, I hear) but more as to motivate and encourage more non-whites to chase this near impossible F1 dream.

What's the point of making F1 more global and take it to Dubai, India, Korea and China when these countries don't have any F1 traditions. The best way to build this tradition is to encourage more to try to get into F1 and I'm not talking of the scale of Brazil, UK, or Italy and Spain. Just to have one trying from as many countries and slowly have a few contenders per country would be a start. I think Willy Ribbs' story will inspire these new blood from non-whites.

Thanks for the info to my title question.

[Megatron]

Willy T Ribbs was actually lined up to drive a Brabham in 1986, the BT55 lowline car. However, Olivetti and Pirelli put their foot down and wanted two from Italy instead.

The guy gained a reputation as a moody, crash prone driver who usually came with money from various sources. One of his former sponsors, Service Merchandise, recently went down the tube. He also drove in three Winston Cup races that same year for Digard, unsponsored and without particular distinction. I think he quit the team after they blew up four motors in practice at Riverside. Digard were going nowhere anyway and folded early the following season.

[Booster]

Quote

Originally posted by liamoohay
Good morning everyone ! It is 11am here. A very happy lunar new year of the horse to all Chinese from all over the world who visit Atlas F1 and this Bulletin Board ! Gong Xi Fa Cai (pronounced Gong Xi Fa Chai translated means 'wish you great prosperity') !
Malaysia today celebrates this holiday with an official two days public holidays but most things are a standstill for at least a whole week.

Not to forget all our very varied Formula 1 fans and friends who are white, brown, yellow or 'purple' from every corner of this world from all faiths, who do not celebrate Lunar New Year, I wish you all that you'll all be happy, be safe and be successful.

Our country comprise around 60% Malays who are all Muslims, 33% Chinese who are mostly Buddhists and Christians, 5% Indians who are mostly Hindus and 2% others. For each culture and religion there are their public holidays officially declared and recognised by our government even though such holidays are for the minorities. I am very proud of the fact that all Malaysians are living harmoniously (bar a few thousand out of 22 million who are trouble makers, religious and racist bigots).

Today, like the Muslim end of Ramadhan celebrations and like the Indians' Deepavali celebrations, we are having 'open houses' which is a great Malaysian tradition of welcoming everyone to our houses to share our hospitality, goodwill, food and drinks.

The world today is a little fragile and consequently sports like Formula 1 are suffering. I love Formula 1 and I pray that we all be a little more understanding and a little more compassionate to add to our extreme passion for the sport that we all love, in order to continue enjoying this great sport of Formula 1.

Thanks for the good wishes. I wish you a happy new year as well. Sorry if I sounded a bit harsh back there... was having a bad day.

No hard feelings

__________________________________________
Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most.

[Kaiser]

Quote

Originally posted by liamoohay

I just hope that if a minority makes it to F1 people won't slag them as they get in against all odds.

Setting up the PC rules, don't critisize a minority, lest you be labeled a racist.

What about if an american makes it to f1 against all odds. Lack of proper feeder series, the dominance of oval racing in the US. NASCAR.

Wow, what perserverance it would take!!!

[Foxbat]

Quote

Originally posted by alain



Are there any blacks here at all?

How would we know

[liamoohay]

Quote

Kaiser posted:
Setting up the PC rules, don't critisize a minority, lest you be labeled a racist.

What about if an american makes it to f1 against all odds. Lack of proper feeder series, the dominance of oval racing in the US. NASCAR.

Wow, what perserverance it would take!!!

Fair comment Kaiser. What I said will now need to be changed. "I hope that we recognise the fact that minorities who make F1 had to go against greater odds, in some cases, we should therefore try to give them that credit. But if they are really underperforming, we should say so just as we had when the last American Michael Andretti, the last American to made it to F1."

It is also quite clear that a 100% of postings showed that no one here is a racist intentionally or otherwise.

Can't wait to see the next American in F1. Who do you think it might be ?

[Turbo]

Dear fellow posters - Let me preface my remarks by saying that I mean no offense by calling you "posters." I am not implying that have any of the stereotypes some uninformed people associate with posters. I considered "fellow colleagues" but that sounded too official. I considered "dear associates" but I understand the term "associates" has some negative connotations dating back to the French revolution. Of course I don't mean to criticism the French by mentioning this. Perhaps I shouldn't have raised any of these issues to begin with. But then if I don't I'm afraid you'll all see me as an "anti-poster." Now on to my point...

Oh bloody hell I forgot what my point was! (Don't mean to offend anyone in hell by saying "bloody hell" by the way.)