I've always wondered if the non-concurrent BRM type-numbering meant that there were other BRM forays outside Formula 1. Did they ever build F2, sports cars (not counting Rover-BRM) or Can Ams? If so, what were the type-numbers? Pics if any, please.
Thanks in advance for any info.
pc13
BRM chassis other than F1
Started by
pc13
, Feb 11 2002 21:34
15 replies to this topic
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#2
2F-001
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Posted 11 February 2002 - 21:48
There were certainly BRM CanAm machines (P154 ?? in '70 or '71), Chevrolet powered, running in Castrol livery. One has been seen in historic racing in UK and Europe in recent times. I'm sure we have some real BRM experts here - so I'll take up no more space for now...
#3
Frank de Jong
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Posted 11 February 2002 - 21:57
Sorry, no time to post a pic right now, but this is the list:
1969 BRM P83 F5000 (unofficial)
1970 BRM P154 Canam
1971 BRM P167 Canam (1972 Interserie car)
1992 BRM P351 group C
1997 BRM P301-Nissan LMP900 sportscar
...and some P261 Tasman cars
The 90's cars were pretty abortive, with scarcely any outings.
Besides this, they tuned F2 engines (1000 cc) and built some Lotus-Cortina engines.
That's a nice list for a start. Did I forget anything?
1969 BRM P83 F5000 (unofficial)
1970 BRM P154 Canam
1971 BRM P167 Canam (1972 Interserie car)
1992 BRM P351 group C
1997 BRM P301-Nissan LMP900 sportscar
...and some P261 Tasman cars
The 90's cars were pretty abortive, with scarcely any outings.
Besides this, they tuned F2 engines (1000 cc) and built some Lotus-Cortina engines.
That's a nice list for a start. Did I forget anything?
#4
McRonalds
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Posted 11 February 2002 - 22:44
That's a theme I always wanted to start as a thread here, especially the '92 BRM at Le Mans. I remember the start of this car very well. Plagued with problems the dark-green car spent more time off than on the circuit. I even think they have only nominated one driver (Wayne Taylor) - that was enough for about XX(?) laps. But at first sight the car (including the sponsorship of Rubbery Owen on the front part of the body, additional sponsorship by VIRGIN Records) looked like a real seventies-BRM - but I wonder who really stood behind that project. I think the car was very popular at his time - but in my eyes - not more but a GAG - like all those Bugatti/Cadillac/Bentley revivals during the last years at Le Mans. I really would like to know more about the BRM Le Mans project '92. Anyone out there who knows more about it?!
Frank; I never heard anything about that '97 Nissan project - and really would like to see that car.
Frank; I never heard anything about that '97 Nissan project - and really would like to see that car.
#5
McRonalds
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Posted 11 February 2002 - 22:56
...and here's one of the P154 CanAm cars but not during a CanAm-race, but at the InterSerie (sorry no info about location and driver). A very impressive car??!?!!!? You decide... 
#6
Don Capps
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Posted 11 February 2002 - 23:01
Don't forget that all engines, gearboxes, and various and other sundry items carried "P" or "Project" numbers as well, so expect those gaps in the numbering sysem. Don't forget the BRM F2 engine, the P80. I do remember the BRM Can-Am car in 1970. It was a sharp looking car -- and it led the Road Atlanta round.
#7
Vitesse2
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Posted 11 February 2002 - 23:48
Project numbers were also applied to outside contract work that BRM did for other companies, some of it outside the motor industry. IIRC there was something about this in the BRM issue of MotorSport a few months ago.
#8
Michael Müller
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Posted 12 February 2002 - 00:01
Considering the chimneys, the P154 must have had a steam engine .... 
Remembering the Castrol livery car belonged to German Jost Kalisch, some years ago. It was rather competitive in Steigenberger Supersports Cup - if it saw the finish line. Don't know where the car is now, didn't see it for years.
Remembering the Castrol livery car belonged to German Jost Kalisch, some years ago. It was rather competitive in Steigenberger Supersports Cup - if it saw the finish line. Don't know where the car is now, didn't see it for years.
#9
David McKinney
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Posted 12 February 2002 - 07:44
The BRM P109 is alive and well and living in the York Motor Museum in Australia. I think they have a website.
Frank de Jong:
It could be argued that the P261 Tasman cars were F1 models: they first appeared in 2-litre form in New Zealand and Australia in January/February 1966, and were subsequently run in world championship events for the new 3-litre F1.
Michael Müller
I'm pretty sure Jöst Kalisch still has his Can-Am car
Frank de Jong:
It could be argued that the P261 Tasman cars were F1 models: they first appeared in 2-litre form in New Zealand and Australia in January/February 1966, and were subsequently run in world championship events for the new 3-litre F1.
Michael Müller
I'm pretty sure Jöst Kalisch still has his Can-Am car
#10
Hitch
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Posted 12 February 2002 - 08:04
I don't know who much BRM had to do with both LeMans entries of the Rover-turbine-car in the sixties, but everywhere you read about the Rover-BRMs. We recently discussed about it in the thread about unusual starting numbers, for example #00, as seen here on one of the Rover-BRMs. Sorry, no pic of the second entry in '65, but I remember it looked like a regular sportscar - less spectacular as this one.
#11
Megatron
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Posted 12 February 2002 - 10:14
I think that "BRM" chassis from 92 actually ran again around 96 or 97 with a Nissan engine in it. Don't forget the Auroa BRM from 79, which was originally supposed to be a Formula One return.
#12
Frank de Jong
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Posted 12 February 2002 - 18:51
Originally posted by Megatron
I think that "BRM" chassis from 92 actually ran again around 96 or 97 with a Nissan engine in it.
Well, Megatron, I'm not so sure. But I can't look under the bodywork.
The 92 P351, designed by Paul Brown:
the 97 P301, by John Mangoletsi:
A shame that those cars were never competitive. Especially for the '92 group C car, with its 3,5 litre V12 (it was supposedly based on the Weslake V12...)
#13
pc13
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Posted 12 February 2002 - 21:48
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Don Capps
Don't forget that all engines, gearboxes, and various and other sundry items carried "P" or "Project" numbers as well, so expect those gaps in the numbering sysem. Don't forget the BRM F2 engine, the P80. I do remember the BRM Can-Am car in 1970. It was a sharp looking car -- and it led the Road Atlanta round.[QUOTE]
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Vitesse2
Project numbers were also applied to outside contract work that BRM did for other companies, some of it outside the motor industry. IIRC there was something about this in the BRM issue of MotorSport a few months ago. [/QUOTE]
Well, that explains the jump from P25 to P48 and so on.
So, if the P15 was the first F1 car, what was the BRM P1?
And didn't Keith Wiggins have something to the BRM return in the 90's? I seem to recall something along those lines.
pc13
Don't forget that all engines, gearboxes, and various and other sundry items carried "P" or "Project" numbers as well, so expect those gaps in the numbering sysem. Don't forget the BRM F2 engine, the P80. I do remember the BRM Can-Am car in 1970. It was a sharp looking car -- and it led the Road Atlanta round.[QUOTE]
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Vitesse2
Project numbers were also applied to outside contract work that BRM did for other companies, some of it outside the motor industry. IIRC there was something about this in the BRM issue of MotorSport a few months ago. [/QUOTE]
Well, that explains the jump from P25 to P48 and so on.
So, if the P15 was the first F1 car, what was the BRM P1?
And didn't Keith Wiggins have something to the BRM return in the 90's? I seem to recall something along those lines.
pc13
#14
Rainer Nyberg
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Posted 12 February 2002 - 21:56
Keith Wiggins?
I believe that his Pacific Racing was running the '97 Le Mans effort already mentioned here.
I believe that his Pacific Racing was running the '97 Le Mans effort already mentioned here.
#15
Roger Clark
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Posted 13 February 2002 - 06:22
Originally posted by pc13
Well, that explains the jump from P25 to P48 and so on.
So, if the P15 was the first F1 car, what was the BRM P1?
pc13
P1 to P14 could have been the components of the V16, but it is surely no coincidence that the P15 was 1.5-litres and the P25 was 2.5-litres.
#16
fines
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Posted 13 February 2002 - 21:35
Well, imho they look pretty much alike! I have seen much more mind-boggling examples of car conversions, that's for sure!!Originally posted by Frank de Jong
Well, Megatron, I'm not so sure. But I can't look under the bodywork.
The 92 P351, designed by Paul Brown:
the 97 P301, by John Mangoletsi:
A shame that those cars were never competitive. Especially for the '92 group C car, with its 3,5 litre V12 (it was supposedly based on the Weslake V12...)
