27 replies to this topic

[joachimvanwing]

In my native language and dialect there is a saying "Diene rijdt 'lijk ne Fangio", used by older people, born 1900-1960. This saying is used when you see someone travel at massive speed on a public road. It translates "He drives like a Fangio, he thinks he's Fangio,... ", but it reads "He is crazy, he wants himself killed, he's a wild man"

I have never seen Fangio drive, I don't know his drivingstyle. There is simply not that much footage to find out about the man behind the wheel, the driver at work.

My rather simple question to those who know his driving: DID HE DRIVE AS IF HE WANTED TO GET HIMSELF KILLED? Did he often take (un)necessary risks? Or did he have a nervous drivingstyle? And even more: how did he end up in the saying "he's a madman behind the wheel"?

[paulhooft]

The best gossip I have heard:
Ayrton Senna in Great Britian..
driving to fast ,
was held by a police man.
The Question:
How do you think you are???
Nigel Mansell???
They told me that one really happened..
if it did ,
it is a gem...
Paul

[oldtimer]

Oh dear, where do you start? While there may not be much visual footage of Fangio's style, if you study the literature and his races, it is clear that Fangio adopted a 'win at the slowest possible speed' approach, particularly after his 1952 accident. The problem for his competitors was that, on demanding circuits, his slowest speed was often faster, and more sustained, than they cared to match.

An example I like was the final qualifying session at Spa in 1956. Fangio was holding the pole position when Moss went out and beat it by 3 seconds or so, which was a big enough improvement for some to think the issue was settled. Well, Fangio went out and beat Moss' time by nearly 5 seconds. Which means that Fangio, prior to Moss' hot lap, had been sitting on pole with at least 8 seconds in hand. And that raises the question of whether or not he still had speed in hand after finally winning pole.

So, no I don't think Fangio drove as if he wanted to get himself killed. An interesting thing about the pictorial record is that some of the pictures around still make you suck on your breath. The great classic is on the downhill sweeps at Rouen in 1957, and I am just now looking at a Jesse Alexander shot of him in a full bore drift at the old Tabac corner at Monaco. No barriers to greet a mis-judgement, just a stone wall. Scary for you and me, and not a few racers, but not to him. It was all measured.

[Schummy]

Here in Spain it's the same with "Fittipaldi". I't´s ironic that Fangio and Fitti were two thoughtful drivers, not aggresive ones like Gilles, Rindt or Peterson. Their approach was more Prost-like than Senna-like, if we had to do a very simple comparison.

I think they say it because they are saying "he thinks he is so good as Fangio and can drive at that speed, but he is not, and he is going to have an accident". At least it is how I've understood our local "Fittipaldi" variant.

[David J Jones]

Reference the post regarding Senna's speeding.

I believe the policeman actually asked him if he thought he was Ayrton Senna. I believe he said 'Well.........' and then the policeman realised............

[paulhooft]

Oh dear,
Where do I Start,
I have a great.great admiration for the great Juan, Stirling and Tazio.
and I think I have a lot, if not all books about them..
The driver that was perhaps most like myself was Jimmy
In fact I have a lot less admoration for those moderns...
kindest regards
Paul

[Wolf]

Well, I was once stopped by a policeman who asked me: 'Who do you think you are, Lauda?' And I've heard Americans use Andretti in that question.

[MrAerodynamicist]

Originally posted by oldtimer
While there may not be much visual footage of Fangio's style,

That got me doing a google search for Fangio avi's an I found a minutes tribute clip at http://www.zon.se/bil/filmer/f1.shtml (towards the bottom, under Miscellaneous). So who can shed some light on where any of the particles clips or photos are from?

[Bernd]

Here in Australia some elder drivers use "Who do you think you are.. Fangio" as a rebuke to younger hot headed drivers. I think it mainly is a reference to Fangios vast skill compared with the lack of skill in the young driver.

[Wolf]

Mr. A, I am by no means an expert, but I'll give it a go...

BRM P15 shot should be at Monza (trials); the car has no race number so I guess one could discard the Dunrod where Fangio raced it. The Maserati shots are from 'Ring '57. As for that glimpse of Lancia-Ferrari D.50, I don't know... On account of number it could be 'Ring, but his car there had yellow stripe on the nose, so it's not it. If nobody gets that one, I'll have to check my sources.

[oldtimer]

The shots of the Lancia-Ferrari are from the winning drive in the British GP at Silverstone in 1956.

[Wolf]

BTW, I've ripped a shot I'm about to inquire (there's no point in asking ppl to download a 10MB file because of one particular still)... Who is the other driver in this photo? Thanks in advance.

[Dennis David]

There is actually quite a bit of footage on Fangio if you look for it.

[josh.lintz]

Originally posted by Wolf
Well, I was once stopped by a policeman who asked me: 'Who do you think you are, Lauda?' And I've heard Americans use Andretti in that question.

Happened to me about 8 years ago. Driving 75mph in a 55 zone in the rain. He flashed his lights, and pulled me over. He used his external speaker, because it was raining at night, so he obviously didn't want to get wet. "Who do you think you are, Andretti?" he barked...

Of course, I wanted to say, "No...Senna.", but getting out of a ticket is enough!

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by Wolf
Who is the other driver in this photo?

Peter Collins (making a face)

[Roger Clark]

I don't realy want to do this but.. go on, take over...

[Vitesse2]

Dammit, I'll get Luigi for this ....

[Michael Müller]

Grown up with the "Who do you think you are - Fangio?" saying, which sometimes had been changed to "Stirling Moss", and in later years also to "Niki Lauda", in my opinion it simply means "racing" instead of the allowed "driving", without any comment about the skills.

[DOHC]

In the US there's also the expression "drive like Andy Granatelli" as exemplified in this Tom Waits song:

http://www.officialt....com/i_time.htm

But that expression must date back to the old days. It must have been before Granatelli hired Andretti to drive for him at Indy, and Mario won the 500 in 1969 and Granatelli smooched him on the podium.

[Ray Bell]

Surely the expressions' negative attitude is rooted in the lack of knowledge of the general public?

We would never, as enthusiasts, denigrate Fangio's or Moss' or Lauda's or Andretti's abilities... but the public are brought up believing that they are at best daredevils. More likely madmen...

Take a look, though, at Fangio's relaxed style at the wheel, with his hands held low, and his ability to put the lightning-fast corrective movements into the wheel when necessary.

[BRG]

Coming back to Joachim's origianl point, surely no-one would think of Fangio as a wild driver? Very fast, certainly, and spectacular, but always in control. The key thing is "he THINKS he's Fangio!" meaning that he has the speed, but not the talent.

For years, the policeman's question in Britain was "Who do you think are, Stirling Moss?". I remember Moss himself saying that he was once stopped for speeding in the Mersey Tunnel and asked this question. He got away with it! Nowadays, it is probably "do you think you are Colin McRae?" - a sad commentary of current British F1 talent ;)

[Wolf]

I'd like to second Michael's opinion- 'tis how I always thought of it... Simply refering to racing insted of driving (and to police, anything above speed limit is driving like a lunatic/racing &c). That time, I was mere 50kph above the speed limit (and got away with it ).

[Drinky]

"Diene rijdt 'lijk ne Fangio",

Hmm, are you Belgian?;)

There's a great 2 and a half minute clip of Fangio going 'round the Modena testcircuit in his Maserati in 1957. It's nearly all on-board footage, and you can see the steering wheel all the time. Should be enjoyable if you're interested in his driving style. It's the second clip on this page, but be warned, the site is frequently down, so you might want to try another time if the link doesn't work.

[oldtimer]

Drinky, a big thank you from a Fangio fan for posting that link.

The clip certainly gives some insight into Fangio's precise car control. Small wheel movements and drifts straightened up exactly on the exits of the corners.

[Frank de Jong]

I'd like to show you an example of the saying of "he drives like Fangio" in the leading European comic of those days (ca. 1956), "Tin Tin" by Hergé:



"1,000 bombs and granates! That could be Fangio! Wat a steering acrobate!"

[dmj]

http://www.attic.uto...bo/preface.html Probably the first man to whom that famous cop story was atributed...

[Schummy]

Drinky, that link is great! I love that in-car footage

[Marco94]

On the subject of the Senna story, what I have been told is the following:

Senna was driving to Silverstone for the tire tests in June 1992. I was there so I am certain of the date. Since Ayrton does have a more than average ability to drive a passenger car, a speed limit was an optional rule, intended for mere mortals.

Eventually Senna gets stopped, the police man parking his car behind the offender. So when walking to the car he can not see who he is actually dealing with. When he arrived, he did indeed utter the imortal words: "Who do you think you are, Nigel Mansell?" To which Ayrton replies: "No, I'm Ayrton Senna."

This ticket was actually shown in an exibition on Senna in Suzuka. I think it's Suzuka 1994, when they flew around the circuit in a helicopter in the Senna helmet design. The story had been that hilarious.