46 replies to this topic

[aportinga]

Dupont Industries just struck a formal deal to run with Jags this. Some of you may be aware that DuPont is a major supporter of Jeff Gordon. Some of you may also know that Jeff Gordon was to test for Stewart GP (formerly Jags - like I really needed to mention that)a few years back. Well as the story goes, Gordon was unable to run with Stewart due to conflicting sponsorship problems...not that this had anything to do with DuPont. More then likely the conflict resided between Ford and and Chevy (Gordon's sponsor in NASCAR). However Bobby Rahal's initial dream of Americanizing the Jags team seems to still live on at Jaguar - despite his absence.

Yeah yeah yeah....I know wishful thinking but could we see a test for Gordon in F1's future. Gordon has a strong bind to NASCAR - with management, team and sponsors. However if anyone could get him out from the France families grip it would be Bernie Ecclestone. Lets realize that Gordon is regarded as the best American talant (by the general racing public mind you). A seat in F1 could sell alot of F1 goods and a ton of seats at the USGP and probably even other races throughout the world. It would most certainly also boost the tele ratings in the States and therby help solidify F1 in America.

Yes - I know, once again...wishful thinking!;) Hmmmm Any other folks from countries not represented in F1 this desperate ?

Strickly on NASCAR - specifically Dale Earnhardt Jr.... here's what you may not have seen at the 500 this weekend...

"It remains to be seen whether NASCAR will levy any stiff fines on Dale Earnhardt Jr. after Earnhardt tried to run over a NASCAR official on pit lane during today's Daytona 500. With millions watching on NBC, Earnhardt accelerated hard out of his pit stall directly at the NASCAR official who had to dive out of the way to avoid being run over. Earnhardt was mad because NASCAR made him prove his brakes still worked after he was unable to stop in time to avoid missing his pit box. After proving his brakes still worked, a hot Earnhardt must have figured he'd show him the accelerator still works too."

Never a huge Nascar fan I have become interested in Kevin Harvick and Jr...simply to see just how they would perform after Dale Sr's death. While Harvick has performed exceptionally well, Jr has done only well at best. His actions above (if true), are totally un-acceptable and the worst that I have ever seen from any series since I have been a fan.

[Paesan]

I think Jeff would overheat the Jaguar in 3 laps. There is a huge difference between stock cars and formula cars and I for one would doubt that Jeff would have the skill to drive a F1 car. maybe the only one that could drive one would be Boris Said or Robbie Gordon, but they wouldn't sell many tickets would they.

I do not disagree with all your points but I have my doubts that it would become reality.

[Punisher6]

Originally posted by Paesan
I think Jeff would overheat the Jaguar in 3 laps. There is a huge difference between stock cars and formula cars and I for one would doubt that Jeff would have the skill to drive a F1 car.

Over heat the car? Man, you have no idea what you are talking about

[Paesan]

I know enough to know that if you don't drive a F1 car fast enough it overheats because there are no fan for jeff to switch on

[sennadog93]

Does he have much single seater experience would be my first question? It would be good if he did make the switch but I would think that he has more to lose than to gain by doing so....

[aportinga]

I think Gordon had some time in Outlaws and karting as a kid....

[Paste]

If any NASCAR driver could make the transition, it would be Jeff. The guy is amazing on the road courses, usually only being beaten by the "specialists". It's unfortunate for F1 that NASCAR gets all of the young American talent, because I think there are a few drivers in NASCAR would could've made the grade in F1 (Gordon, Harvick, Jr, etc).

Too bad Dale Earnhardt never got to test an F1 car. I think he had said that he wanted to.

[ForzaF1]

Jeff Gordon driving F1 would be huge boost for F1 in the US. However Gordon would be crazy to try it, unless he wants nothing more in the world to be an F1 driver. If he stays in NASCAR he can rake in huge amounts of money every year for the foreseeable future. He might not be in the M. Schumacher range of money, but he certainly makes a hell of alot more than an un-tried rookie F1 driver would.

Gordon is undoubtedly a talented driver, but who know if he has what it takes to drive in F1? There's no way to tell based on his driving in NASCAR, where the cars and the racing have nothing in common with F1.

[aportinga]

Watching DE Jr at Daytona 2 years ago gave me the feeling that he lacked the most major aspect that a NASCAR driver needs to be able to jump to another format. That was adaptability. He had a horrible time in the wet and despite the team instructing him to take it easy he continuously spun the Corvette all over the circuit. A driver who moves from a strickly oval based series to CART or F1 needs to have more patience and adapt better.

Harvick on the other hand is a great candidate to move to CART. He is young and relatively new. Therfore is not bound by sponsorship contracts yet, is not making a ton of cash compared to what he could make - yet, and seems very talented both physically and mentally. Lets remember he is the driver who took DE's place - and has done tremendously well thus far.

If Tony Stewart was a few years younger and lost some wieght he would probably be IMO the best American candidate ever - more so then Michael Andretti IMHO. Why? Because is is always 100% dedicated when he applies himself and has already proven his ability to run in various series with decent success.

[aportinga]

If he stays in NASCAR he can rake in huge amounts of money every year for the foreseeable future. He might not be in the M. Schumacher range of money, but he certainly makes a hell of alot more than an un-tried rookie F1 driver would.

I understand what you are saying here - however in my book, any driver who puts money ahead of the passion of driving is not a driver at all. If this is the case with Gordon then I can name at least 5 friends who are running in the Legend Series (part of the farm system of Outlaws) that have to scrape together all their cash just to make a handful of races...I guess in this context, they are more of racers then Gordon.

[Math Soucy]

Gordon initially entered motorsport in open-wheel; I don't recall if it was Silver Crown or one of the open-wheel midget divisions, but he turned to stock cars and the rest is history. Gordon is too established in the NASCAR machine and linked directly to his sponsors, so, with the tremendous learing curve of Formula 1, the testing requirements, and on and on, it would be impossible to do a one-off in a USGP. I think it would be great exposure for F1 in America, but, it's highly unlikely.

[vtpachyderm]

I understand what you are saying here - however in my book, any driver who puts money ahead of the passion of driving is not a driver at all.

I don't disagree with you on this quote, but aren't you more or less slagging Gordon just because he drives a brick at 180mph? Won't just about every top class driver then be classified as not a driver according to this? Most F1 drivers go where the money is, as do WRC drivers. Granted the teams that offer them the best chance of winning offer the most money, but you migh think that, MS, RS, Montoya, DC PROBABLY won't take a pay cut at the end of this season to stay with their respective teams?

Gordon probably knows that its a little late for him to try open wheel racing, but I don't think that he doesn't have a passion for driving...he's still as competitive as he was when he started, and making some good change it the process.

[aportinga]

Im not leaning on Gordon - I actually do not think that he feels that way. IMO I believe the France family is and will do everything they can to keep Gordon there.

Gordon probably knows that its a little late for him to try open wheel racing, but I don't think that he doesn't have a passion for driving...he's still as competitive as he was when he started, and making some good change it the process.

I'd agree with that - I think I was just trying to make a point.

[vtpachyderm]

Originally posted by aportinga
I'd agree with that - I think I was just trying to make a point.

Point definitely made...

Cheers

[stephwh]

I agree Jeff Gordon could probably run F1 but there is about as much chance of him running F1 as there is of Schumacher running NASCAR.

Not gonna happen.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Talent is talent, but there's also specialisation. Schumacher, Gordon, Makinen, Doohan, et al have the basic motor skills, but after 2 decades of specialising in one discipline, its going to be difficult to cross-over and achieve similar success. As a general rule of thumb a production based automobile is easier than a prototype, so he'd have quite a mountain to climb.

[indycarjunkie]

Something that is worth mentioning about Jeff Gordon is that he's been undefeated on NASCAR's few road coarsed until Robbie Gordon beat him at Sears Point (?) last year. Jeff would be great and I hope to see it but I have a hard time seeing him taking a ride for anything less than the so-called "big 3". The Jags have never showed themselves to be competitive. It would be a huge let down to go from perinneal championship contender to a shitty car and getting your ass kicked on the track every race.

[goalposthead]

The surest way to find out what Gordon is made of would be to give him a test (it could be nothing more than a DuPont promotional gimmick...doesn't matter). Something tells me that after doing a few laps in the Jaguar F1 car he'd be hooked. Anybody who races cars for a living would be thrilled shitless to feel the responsiveness of a state-of-the-art machine.

I also believe that beyond natural talent a big portion of F1 racing is having the courage not to lift when every neuron in your brain is telling you to do so. NASCAR drivers for the most part have this fear suppressed. Hitting the apexes with precision and consistency would probably be a lot more difficult for Gordon than keeping his boot in it.

I agree with those who say it would be difficult for the vast Jeff Gordon corporate enterprise and sponsors to deal with changing to a new series. The only people who wouldn't mind would be DuPont. It's a win-win situation either way for them now.

[BRG]

I don't know if Jeff Gordon could adapt to the very different demands of a single seat F1 car, although I am inclined to believe that talent is talent, and with some practice and time, it will show through.

But I DO know that I would rather see a guy with (probably) over a 100,000 racing miles and many wins and championships under his belt get a F1 chance than some kid straight out of Formula Renault with only 30 car races to his name. I would swop Button, Massa, Bernoldi or Kimi for Gordon without hesitation. The guy has some personality, presentational flair and so on, which is what is needed in F1, on top of course of the basic need for speed. Monosyllabic kids with zits do not give F1 the image that it should have IMO.

[indycarjunkie]

Originally posted by aportinga

Strickly on NASCAR - specifically Dale Earnhardt Jr.... here's what you may not have seen at the 500 this weekend...

"It remains to be seen whether NASCAR will levy any stiff fines on Dale Earnhardt Jr. after Earnhardt tried to run over a NASCAR official on pit lane during today's Daytona 500. With millions watching on NBC, Earnhardt accelerated hard out of his pit stall directly at the NASCAR official who had to dive out of the way to avoid being run over. Earnhardt was mad because NASCAR made him prove his brakes still worked after he was unable to stop in time to avoid missing his pit box. After proving his brakes still worked, a hot Earnhardt must have figured he'd show him the accelerator still works too."

Never a huge Nascar fan I have become interested in Kevin Harvick and Jr...simply to see just how they would perform after Dale Sr's death. While Harvick has performed exceptionally well, Jr has done only well at best. His actions above (if true), are totally un-acceptable and the worst that I have ever seen from any series since I have been a fan.

I didn't watch the entire Daytona Bore-hundred but I did see this incident. Little E is cultivating the reputation of NASCAR's bad boy. This is just part of his act. Make no mistake, NASCAR is as much an act as it is racing. Kinda like WWF on wheels.

[Haz 2]

If I remember correctly, Gordon has said that if he wanted to go into F1 he would have needed to spend more time in open wheel cars during his younger years. However, he has showed interest in testing an F1 car saying something like that it would be cool to see what an F1 car can do. Its my secret wish that he'll do a few laps in testing, fall in love with all the speed and agility of an F1 car, and never go back to Nascar.

But realistically there is no way Gordon would come to F1. He would be crazy to do so. He gets paid up the ass, and is a dominating force in Nascar. Why risk his career in some damn forgein racing series that NOBODY in the US watches?

Oh, and I agree with BRG. This influx of pre-pubescent teens in F1 is starting to annoy me. I'd much rather see Gordon get a shot then some snot nosed brat.

[goalposthead]

Originally posted by indycarjunkie
Make no mistake, NASCAR is as much an act as it is racing. Kinda like WWF on wheels.

Yeah...in the WWF they're just pretending to hit each other. In NASCAR they're only pretending to go 190mph... Great analogy!

[stevew]

I also believe that beyond natural talent a big portion of F1 racing is having the courage not to lift when every neuron in your brain is telling you to do so.

Reminds me of Indianapolis pre-IRL. The fast drivers were required to crank their Indycar into turn 1 at 235mph+ without lifting.

I think at one time Jeff Gordon would have done well in F1, but I also think that time is well past. Gordon is very talented, but if Champcar drivers have trouble adapting, how on earth is a NASCAR driver going to?

[ehagar]

Originally posted by Paste

Too bad Dale Earnhardt never got to test an F1 car. I think he had said that he wanted to.

Dale Earnhardt was a racing fan, and I think he said something to the effect that after retiring from NASCAR he wanted to go to Le Mans and also test a F-1 car.

[Pacific]

It was not Robby Gordon who won Sears Point, it was Tony Stewart. Had Robby decided not to battle the lapped car of Kevin Harvick...dumb a$$

Jeff Gordon: Ran Silver Crown midgets and quarter midgets before that. Indy car teams, as with Tony Stewart, made pitches, but NASCAR Winston Cup is where the money is for an American driver.

Ability: But Dale Earnhardt Sr. could race the Corvette in the wet! Earnhardt had awesome car control. And as Mark Martin and Terry Labonte would say, "So why do you have to go around bumping people?" Fact was, Dale Earnhardt Sr. could build his own race car if needed. So could his buddy Dave Marcis, about 15 years his senior. A lot of the old school Winston Cup drivers had a real understanding for the car. There aren't a lot of those today in Winston Cup or in any series. There are a group of youngsters who study the cars carefully, but if it came time to actually build one. Then there are other young drivers who just drive the car.

This is where Michael Schumacher excels: no one person could ever build a competitive F1 car. However, Michael has a broad understanding and this is why, I suspect, he adapts to conditions so well. I think HHF has this to a lesser degree, but his intensity and concentration are inferior to Michael's. Plus, HHF isn't real good under pressure.

I'm definitely looking forward to the F1 season starting: especially to see how Kimi does along-side Coulthard, how Heidfeld does, how Minardi fairs, and how Toyota fairs. Plus, it'll be interesting to see if Renault can build off of Benetton's strong finish, which could keep Jarno towards the front! There's always about 22 good stories to follow each race.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Originally posted by Pacific
It was not Robby Gordon who won Sears Point, it was Tony Stewart. Had Robby decided not to battle the lapped car of Kevin Harvick...dumb a$$

The lamest part was that they allowed, on a road course, Harvick to interfere. Though shame on Robby, he should have known better

[Locai]

It seems to me that there is an argument brewing here over the abilities of Dale Earnhardt to drive on road courses.

The problem with the argument that I see starting up is that one person is arguing that JUNIOR is not a good road course driver (in the wet) and the other person is arguing that SENIOR was.

IIRC, a couple of years ago both SENIOR and JUNIOR shared a Vette at the 24 Hours at Daytona.


If we're going to argue over a driver's abilities could we at least argue over the same driver?

[Frontrunner]

I think Jeff Gordon has a good thing going in nascar and wouldn't throw that away to end up like Villenevue, stuck in an underperforming car with nothing better in sight.
He will stick to Nascar and break all previous records I imagine, much like Shumie is doing in F1 these days.
I think he could come to grips with an F1 car, but might take some time. He is clever as far as car setups go. You don't win that many races because you got lucky with a good car prepared by someone else.
I read one of the other veteran Nascar drivers saying how adaptable Gordon is and how he is one of the only drivers in Nascar(if not THE only driver) who changes his steering ratios for the short ovals. Would think that would be a pretty obvious setup change, but I guess most Nascar drivers are driving tractors, plowing the north forty during the week, which probably isn't much different to driving a Nascar
Just kidding, don't get upset

[KinetiK]

I, for one, am very surprised with DuPont's decision to sponsor Jaguar. 1) I thought DuPont were smarter than this, 2) if Jaguar's engineering was as good at its job as the marketing dept surely is at selling stuff, Jaguar would be fighting for its 2nd WCC this year, not struggling to keep off the back row as they will be this year.

I don't know who said it here first, but 2003 is Jaguar's last year in F1.

[HouseOfDesai]

Too bad the Ford Chevy conflict still exsist.

[JPMCrew]

Jeff Gordon would never be able to handle a move to one seaters successfully, not to F1, not to CART. Do you remember how difficult it was for JPM to move from CART to F1 last year? Add to that that JPM was 25 while Jeff Gordon is already in his 30's.

[Mr. Stay Puff]

Originally posted by JPMCrew
Jeff Gordon would never be able to handle a move to one seaters successfully, not to F1, not to CART. Do you remember how difficult it was for JPM to move from CART to F1 last year? Add to that that JPM was 25 while Jeff Gordon is already in his 30's.

Yeah Juan Pablo had a real tough time moving from CART to IRL and then to F1. And I really dont know how well Jeff Gordon would do in F1, there is no doubt in my mind that he would dominate the IRL or CART.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Tony Stewart is considered one of the hot properties of NASCAR but he didnt rip the IRL a new one and his Ganassi teammates showed him the way, including the 'rookies'

And dont even mention what his teammates thought of him inthe 24hours of Daytona...

[stevew]

Originally posted by ehagar


Dale Earnhardt was a racing fan, and I think he said something to the effect that after retiring from NASCAR he wanted to go to Le Mans and also test a F-1 car.

I remember hearing that Dale Sr. was a big Nigel Mansell fan. Also, didn't Sr. express his condolences to Senna's family first thing after winning a race on that fateful May 1?

[ehagar]

Originally posted by stevew


I remember hearing that Dale Sr. was a big Nigel Mansell fan. Also, didn't Sr. express his condolences to Senna's family first thing after winning a race on that fateful May 1?

I'm not sure whether he did or not. But he did watch F-1 races an seemed to have a genuine interest in it. He went to the Autosport awards with Gordaon Kirby ocassionally too, and seemed to surprise British journos with his interest in many varieties of racing. They misjudged him!

[Mat]

I saw the DE Jnr incident in the 500 on Sunday, and it isn't as bad as that article makes it out to be. The marshal did not dive out the way, but he was in a hurry to get out of the way!! Dale Jnr was just pissed off, and he's trying to take over the 'intimidator' role. There was no way he was gonna actually hit the marshal.

As for Gordon, it would be fantastic if he got a test-ride at Jag. Unfortunately, he would be too old to risk a year or two in an un-competitive car. The only way is to find a young Ford NASCAR driver with the same recognition/stature as Gordon, and get him an F1 seat pronto.

Mat

[Zippity]

Imagine a F1 car painted in the famous "Rainbow" colours of Jeff's #24

What a stunner that would be

[indycarjunkie]

Would Bernie let Jeff carry his traditional "24" instead of whatever the official team numbers worked out to be?

[Don Capps]

I have read this thread with a bit of a heavy heart -- that so few here can even contemplate that a driver from one series could jump to another series and be competitive. At one time that was pretty much the norm. Just look at what Stirling Moss, Dan Gurney, Bruce McLaren, Mario Andretti, AJ Foyt, Chris Amon, Curtis Turner, David Pearson, Olivier Gendebien, Innes Ireland, Graham Hill, and Jim Clark and many other drove in a season or even a month sometimes! Gordon could easily be in the same class as Gurney and Andretti when it come to driving whatever has wheels, and Tony Stewart and others on both sides of the Atlantic being capable of driving a variety of racing cars not only well, but fast.

Sorry, but this is where the New Age of Racing has seriously cheated fans worldwide -- by tying a driver to essentially a single series it makes people F1, NASCAR, CART, FF, WRC, or whatever "fans" and it denies folks today this car-hopping that made racing so much fun (boy, is that word ever missing from the scene today!) for several decades.

I am so thankful that I got to see that period up close and personal. Had I not done so, I seriously doubt I would be a motor racing fan today. Sorry about the Old Fart comments and I know that you have to play the cards you're dealt, but nothing could make F1 and the other series better than the presence of drivers like Gordon and others that could work several series a year, even if only sparingly.

Given the opportunity, many drivers could and would do quite well in open-wheeled or sports or stock (sedan) cars. Gordon could be very competitive in a good F1, just as Michael Schumacher would be pretty good in good NASCAR team and so forth.

Just my view.

[Pirelli1]

Whoever said Dale Earnhardt was a big F1 fan was spot on. Evidently he passed down this love to Jr. as well, because I have read in many interviews with him that Jr. loves playing F1 simulators.

After his death last year, ALMS and Sports Car racing magazine did a short tribute article on DE. It said Earnhardt could talk for hours on on the attributes of Senna and Schumacher. Alot of this came out last year when Earnhardt raced at the 24 hours of Daytona.

In regards to Mansell and Earnhardt, I seem to recall a story about Humpy Wheeler cornering Mansell at a party and trying to get him to race in the Coca-Cola 600. Mansell didn't want to do this and he was rescued from the conversation by his friend Dale Earnhardt.

[CART]

Jeff Gordon signed a life time contract with Hendrick motorsports last year. Little E would love to test an F1 car but he said a team would be crazy to let him do it.

[aportinga]

I remember hearing that Dale Sr. was a big Nigel Mansell fan. Also, didn't Sr. express his condolences to Senna's family first thing after winning a race on that fateful May 1?

Earnhardt Sr. said while in the winners circle... "Our thoughts go out to Senna and his fans...It's a terrible thing but...but we had a really good race..."




Sadly I think the biggest reason many of these drivers never leave their respected series is because the series itself depends on them. Therefore I strongly feel that in this case, the France family will do all they can to keep the Earnhardt's, Stewarts, Gordons and possibly Harvick from leaving NASCAR. Just think what would happen if they all did leave???

I recall MS saying that after his shunt with JV for the WDC that he was heading to CART...That certainly ruffled a few feathers!

[indycarjunkie]

Originally posted by CART
Jeff Gordon signed a life time contract with Hendrick motorsports last year. Little E would love to test an F1 car but he said a team would be crazy to let him do it.

Is that really true? Maybe it was for Hendrick in NASCAR. Maybe he'd be allowed some fredom to drive a real race car. I've always hoped for Gordon to take a seat in F1 for a competitive team and carry the flag at the USGP! I'm sure he'd do well.

[aportinga]

From the feedback I can gather, Gordon did sign a lifetime deal with Hendrick last year and may also have one with DuPont.

Only goes to show that he is officially the poster boy of the France Empire and NASCAR itself. And I guess this gives me more reason not to like the guy.

Well If he doesn't want to prove he can run with the big boys then I guess he ought to just stay in Nascar.

[JPMCrew]

Originally posted by Mr. Stay Puff
Yeah Juan Pablo had a real tough time moving from CART to IRL and then to F1. And I really dont know how well Jeff Gordon would do in F1, there is no doubt in my mind that he would dominate the IRL or CART.

Well, it may not seem that way now, Montoya did struggle a lot in the first half of last year. Eventhough he was still pretty good, he wasn't nearly up to his real level, which we began seeing at the end of the year. JPM himself has said that when he watches some of the races last year, he can't believe it was him making all those little mistakes.

As far as Gordon dominating in open wheel, he might have done so had he chosen the open wheel path from the start; but at this point in his career, he wouldn't even be competitive. Have you seen how some road racing guys, for example Robbie Gordon, kick butt in NASCAR road courses? Robbie Gordon is even better than Jeff Gordon in those. Taking into account that Robbie wasn't even close to being the best in CART, imagine how Jeff would do if he had to compete with 10 guys better than Robbie all year long.

[ehagar]

Originally posted by JPMCrew

Robbie Gordon, kick butt in NASCAR road courses? Robbie Gordon is even better than Jeff Gordon in those. Taking into account that Robbie wasn't even close to being the best in CART, imagine how Jeff would do if he had to compete with 10 guys better than Robbie all year long.

Of course prior to his slagging of Ford he was a top five contender in CART... The Toyota engine he used was was pathetic...

[aportinga]

Further research leads me to believe that Gordon's contract with Hendrick of interest in the team only - not as a driver. Still looking into the matter though.