40 replies to this topic

[Barry Boor]

Thanks to the wonders of the WWW, I was contacted a while ago by a very kind gentleman name Eric Newman. When Eric was a young man, he often visited Brands Hatch. He was there on at least 2 occasions during 1972; once at the end of season Victory Race and also at the August Bank Holiday Rothman's 50,000 Formula Libre event.

Happily, young Eric had with him a camera. As a result, a whole new batch of Connew photographs have come to light and thanks to hi-tech scanners and very clever photo enhancing programs, Eric's 126-sized negatives have become fresh new images.

Whilst playing about with the images during the last couple of days, it occurred to me to wonder who drove the Surtees #14 in that race?

Here is a picture of part of that Surtees, with Connew designer Peter Connew (back to the camera) chatting to one of the Surtees team members. (presumably!)



The full set of Eric Newman pictures will appear on the Connew page of the Images website at the weekend.

[Roger Clark]

Originally posted by Barry Boor


Whilst playing about with the images during the last couple of days, it occurred to me to wonder who drove the Surtees #14 in that race?

Steve Thompson

[Allen Brown]

Barry

I think that's Steve Thompson's Surtees TS8 F5000 car.

Does Eric have any pictures of the two TS8s at that race? The other was a rare F1-engined hybrid run by Herve Bayard. I don't have a decent contemporary picture of a Surtees TS8 for OldRacingCars.com.

Other rarities at that race were the two old BRMs of Robs Lamplough and Bernd Terbeck. Any pictures of those?

Allen

[Barry Boor]

Thanks for those replies, gentlemen.

Sorry, Allen, I can't help with any of those but Eric only sent me the strips of negatives with Connew pictures on. I'll check with him to see if he has any others.

Meanwhile, here is a nice picture of Brian Redman from that same meeting:

[BRG]

This brings back some memories! The cool dude on the left in the flares and long hair really sets the period

I especially like the hi-tech wooden chocks used to combat the infamous sloping Brands Hatch paddock!

[Stefan Ornerdal]

Hi guys,

I have the results of this race here:

http://user.tninet.s.../F272_50000.htm

but it is not complete, no record of the consolation final or heats. Is there anyone who has an entrylist, or any info which could be of use for me?

Great pics, say thanks to Eric from me!

Stefan

[Gary C]

Stefan, regarding your entry for Emerson in the Rothmans 50,000. Shouldn't it be 'JPS Team Lotus'? I thought Gold Leaf stopped sponsoring them at the end of 71??

[Barry Boor]

Emmo's Lotus was certainly black and gold.

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by Gary C
Stefan, regarding your entry for Emerson in the Rothmans 50,000. Shouldn't it be 'JPS Team Lotus'? I thought Gold Leaf stopped sponsoring them at the end of 71??

I was there, and it was certainly a black Lotus! Somewhere, I may still have the programme ....

Blast!! Beaten to the punch again!!

[Marcor]

I've not all starting numbers, just 11 (picture evidence)
#1 Redman McLaren M19A-1 Ford
#3 Beltoise BRM P160-1
#5 Fittipaldi Lotus 72D R5 Ford
#6 Pescarolo March 711-3 Ford
#7 Migault Connew PC1 Ford
#15 Rollinson Lola T300 Chevrolet F5000
#34 Morgan Brabham BT38 Ford F2
#40 Birell March 722 Ford BDA F2
#41 Purley March 721G-2 Ford
#48 Watson Chevron B20 Ford FVC F2
#56 Casoni Lola T280 Ford 3L

[Marcor]

link with an old thread about the same race
http://www.atlasf1.c...&threadid=11227

[Roger Clark]

I hope this is readable

[Barry Boor]

I MUST visit my optician!!!

[Barry Boor]

This is from the Victory Race meeting in 1972, but what is it?

[Vitesse2]

Wild guess - a Formula Atlantic Lyncar?

[sat]

It is specially bodied March of Vern Schuppan

[Rob Ryder]

Roger

Great to finally see an entry list for the 50000

I could decipher most of it, but the drivers of the following cars beat me...

No.8 No.46 No.64 No.65 No.66

Any chance of you posting them?

Thanks

Rob

[Rob Ryder]

Sat

1972 Victory race Vern Schuppan was in a BRM P160C...... ??

[2F-001]

With the aid of some manipulation in Photoshop, they look like...

8 - Hervé Boyard
46 - Ian Mewby (spelling? -Newby? - don't remember him)
64 - Andrew Fletcher
65 - David Saville-Peck ?? (less clear on that one)
66 - Brian Husbands

I must have that ?Autosport? somewhere, but not at home.

[st59cz]

Singapore Airlines was Schuppan´s sponsor in 1972. And Schuppan´s March was described as "custom made aerodynamic modifie". From that I deduce...

Btw David Saville-Peck was canadian? driver-constructor in Can-Am Challenge (Costello SP-8). And Newby is correct spelling...

[Jeremy Jackson]

No. 46 was driven by Ian Mawby, not Newby. he raced his Atlantic-spec Lotus 69 regularly in Libre races aswell as F. Atlantic in the UK in '72.

No. 8 was Hervé Bayard

Schuppan's March 722 was fitted with bodywork by Falconer - they also did the bodywork on Elden Formula Fords in 1972 (Johnny Gerber etc)

[Stefan Ornerdal]

Thank you all for your help. My site is now updated with this new information.
However, I have not been to a optician for a long time...
Is Graham McRae's start number 26?
#66, Brian Husbands U2-Ford, what is the type number?
#23, Dave Berry, Brabham - Rover BT???
#55, Guy Edwards, does it read Chevrolet/Cosworth?

And finally, for Barry - was it a Connew PC1 or PC2?

Stefan

[Barry Boor]

Well, Stefan, there is a bit of a question mark about that one, as Allen Brown will attest to.

Back when the 2 Connew chassis were being built, Peter always referred to the first one as PC1 and the second as PC2. PC1 was built with the (silly) hope that it would race in 1971. When it became clear that there was no way that could happen, chassis 2 was built with a thicker aluminium outer skin, as per the 1972 regulations.

It was this chassis that ran at Brands Hatch (3 times) and in Austria. So according to that theory, it should be PC2. BUT..... Remember, this idea begun with Ken Tyrrell, who numbered his first chassis 001 and the second 002. As I recall, that practice continued until 007 arrived, after which the numbers became type numbers.

Peter now says that he feels that because the design of the second chassis was the same as the first, technically it should be called PC1/2 and the first PC1/1. So the truth probably is, that the F1 car should be called PC1/2. But then again, I'm not sure what is on the chassis plate.....

[Gary C]

actually Barry, Tyrrell started numbering his chassis with the 006 cars, there were three, 006/1, 006/2 and 006/3.

[Jeremy Jackson]

Stefan,

Dave Berry's car was a BT16/21B, Brian Husbands' U2 was a Mk. 11.

Guy Edwards' T290 had the Chevy Vega/Cosworth engine, and is listed as Chev/Cosworth

Graham McRae was no. 26.

[Gary C]

actually Barry, Tyrrell started numbering his chassis with the 006 cars, there were three, 006/1, 006/2 and 006/3.

[Vitesse2]

Stefan:
As Jeremy says, on the list Dave Berry's car appears to be described as a BT16/21B. The BT16 was of course an F2 type, but the 21B was a Formula B model for the USA. I wonder whether 21C (Formule Libre model) might be more correct.

[Barry Boor]

Thanks, Gary, but I heard you the first time!

[Jeremy Jackson]

I saw Dave Berry's Brabham in F5000 in 1971, when, IIRC, it was entered as a BT14/21B aswell, but unfortunately my race programmes aren't near to hand.

Sheldon's F5000 book says is was a BT18, chassis F2-28-66. I don't know if it was the same chassis, I'd assume it was.

[Allen Brown]

Originally posted by Gary C
actually Barry, Tyrrell started numbering his chassis with the 006 cars, there were three, 006/1, 006/2 and 006/3.

Gary C

Not sure you're quite right. I think he started numbering his cars with 006/2. The first 006 was just called 006.

Allen

[Allen Brown]

Originally posted by Barry Boor
Peter now says that he feels that because the design of the second chassis was the same as the first, technically it should be called PC1/2 and the first PC1/1. So the truth probably is, that the F1 car should be called PC1/2. But then again, I'm not sure what is on the chassis plate.....

Barry

What!? I thought we'd got this sorted out and you'd been down to the shed to see what was on the plates? Do I need to change ORC again?

Allen

[2F-001]

Regarding Guy Edwards' Lola...

The ''Chev/Cosworth'' bit would refer to the Cosworth EA two-litre engine based on the alloy Chevrolet Vega block. Edwards ran this for a time in the 2-litre Group 6 series (what was the proper name for that championship?). I'd be interested to where else it was used. I think there was high hopes for this motor - as far as I recall, it pre-dated the alloy-block BDG formula 2 engine.
(I've read, forget where, that the Vega engine used the same fancy pressure-cast Reynolds alloy as the later McLaren CanAm engines.)

Ah... I've just found it in Ken Wells' little ''Cosworth'' booklet... he relates that is was their first production-block engine not based on a Ford product... it was very much lighter than a BDA... but simply wasn't up the job... they nick-named it ''the stumbling block''... they developed it as a race engine for Chevrolet before GM production-ized it for the Vega - and it didn't work so well there either... apparently they are now collectors' items... (maybe it would suit my Caterham nicely - anyone got one?).

[Gary C]

Sorry Allen, you're absolutely right about the first 006 being just that, then 006/2 and 006/3 following on. I'd vaguely forgotten that!

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by 2F-001
....''Chev/Cosworth'' bit would refer to the Cosworth EA two-litre engine based on the alloy Chevrolet Vega block. ..... I think there was high hopes for this motor - as far as I recall, it pre-dated the alloy-block BDG formula 2 engine.
(I've read, forget where, that the Vega engine used the same fancy pressure-cast Reynolds alloy as the later McLaren CanAm engines.)

Yes, IIRC the Vega had a high silicon content in the alloy to allow pistons to run directly in the alloy bores... were the piston surfaces iron?

[2F-001]

>>>the Vega had a high silicon content in the alloy to allow pistons to run directly in the alloy bores... were the piston surfaces iron?<<<

This sounds like the stuff I remember reading at the time, Ray; but I was trying to leave out the bits I didn't fully understand (er - that wouldn't leave me much!) I assumed the pistons were conventional forged alloy items...

The term 'hyper-eutectic' was used in connection with the block material. Anyone know what this means?

Are we on the right forum?! Heck, yes... this is history after all...

[fines]

Originally posted by 2F-001
The ''Chev/Cosworth'' bit would refer to the Cosworth EA two-litre engine based on the alloy Chevrolet Vega block. Edwards ran this for a time in the 2-litre Group 6 series (what was the proper name for that championship?). I'd be interested to where else it was used...

Erm, for exaple the MANA 08B Japanese Formula 2000 car, in 1973.

[Barry Boor]

Allen, I think we are in agreement. The listing on your site quotes the raced car as being PC1/2. That is what Peter is saying now; or are you confused about 1/2 and 1-002? If so then I had better get back to the man himself to see which it should be.

[FEV]

Erm, for exaple the MANA 08B Japanese Formula 2000 car, in 1973.

Good one Michael ! But who was the very first to race it ? I thought it was Bonnier but Edwards must be close, anybody knows ?

what was the proper name for that championship?

I think the official name was "European Sportscar Championship for Makes", but I saw several names for it, made of different mixes of the terms European, Sportscar, 2-litre, Makes, Championship, Trophy, Sport-Protypes, etc. I guess the official name changed during the short life of this championship.

[david_martin]

Originally posted by 2F-001

The term 'hyper-eutectic' was used in connection with the block material. Anyone know what this means?

Sure, but are you really sure really what to know?

Hypereutectic is a general term relating to the solidification behaviour of a binary alloy system. The eutectic chemical compositon is one where is particular type of solidifcation phenomena is observed. Chemical compositions with less of the alloy addition than the eutectic composition are called hypoeutectic alloys and those with more are called hypereutectic. I am not an Aluminium specialist by any stretch of the imagination, by I seem to recall that the euctectic composition in the Aluminium-Silicon system is 11.2 weight percent, so a hypereutectic Al-Si alloy is one with >11.2 weight percent Silicon. Now are you really sure you wanted to know?

[Allen Brown]

Originally posted by Barry Boor
Allen, I think we are in agreement. The listing on your site quotes the raced car as being PC1/2. That is what Peter is saying now; or are you confused about 1/2 and 1-002? If so then I had better get back to the man himself to see which it should be.

Barry

Sorry - I misunderstood. I thought Peter had changed his mind again. Delighted to be in full agreement with a F1 constructor - that's three down 48 to go!!

Allen

[2F-001]

David said:

>>> Now are you really sure you wanted to know? <<<

Er... yes, I think so, David...
As you might imagine I don't know what the phenomenon is which occurs at the point the composition is 'eutectic' but assume it must either be some recognizable state which happens for all, or most, alloys (or solid solutions? - that's a term I remember) or else the point of max or min of some measurable property.

Would this imply that by knowing such things the metallurgist can achieve a synergy of the properties of the component materials? Sort of like a composite material on a chemical rather than mechanical level? Or am I clawing up the wrong pole?

(If you hadn't guessed, I'm an artist rather than a scientist)

Re: the thread about ''Polimotor'' - you sound like a man who might know about this stuff... ?