28 replies to this topic

[tony]

JPM lives in Miami Florida, MS lives in Switzerland, many drivers live in Monaco....so how does the FIA determine which country a person is "from". Is it done by country of birth, country where you have the biggest home, or what? It may be done by citizenship, but many of the drivers must have dual citizenship...so do the drivers themselves get to choose? Can a driver change his country during a season?

[Richard Jenkins]

It's decided by which country grants him or her a competition licence, ergo, usually, the nation of their birth. People only live in foreign climes to avoid excess tax - I'm sure that Button would not see himself as Monegasque....

[stevew]

Don't know...

Interesting question!

Jochen Rindt was considered Austrian, but was actually born in Germany. Memo Gidley is considered an American, but was born in Mexico. Was it Bertrand Gachot who "changed" his nationality from Belgian to French? John Watson was considered Irish, but Eddie Irvine is British?

Any others?

[Liam]

Eddie Irvine lives in Dublin, and is treated as a proper Irishman, yet as he was born in Northern Ireland, as as he wanted to race in England, he has a British racing license, so he's classified as british.

Interestingly, when Jordan won their first GP, the british national anthem was played and the Union Jack raised. , as the team is based in Silverstone. EJ made sure that after that the Irish Tricolour and Amhrán na bhFiann were used after that.
I think that has to be my best F1 memory, that and EJ leaping down the pitlane at Spa twords the van with Damon in.

[Scoop]

i think its the country of origin...

[BuonoBruttoCattivo]

Country of citizenship. Not where they reside or were born.

[taran]

Actually, the official nationality is determined by the country awarding the race licence.
Usually that is indeed the nation where the driver was born and did his first racing.

Some drivers (i.e. cart) spend so much time in the US, they are naturalised but still keep their "old" race licence. Roberto Geurrero and Salazar are still officially Colombian and Chilean race drivers although both hold US passports.

Some drivers indeed change their "nationality", i.e. Ralf Schumacher has become Austrian....for tax purposes. It means that he will apply for a Austrian licence. That means that officially he will be an "Austrian" driver and that the flags in books etc. should be Austrian.

But in the public perception he will always be GERMAN.

[Megatron]

Actually, I think that Roberto is actually an "American" now.

Mario Andretti was born in Italy, but in his early teens moved to the US, where he got his chances, made his name, and lived. He was always considered an American, even with a US flag on his helmet at times (usually a small decal on the back or side).

Wayne Taylor is from South Africa, but he has been racing under the US banner for the last year as an American citizen. No doubt that helps him get on at Caddy. Andy Pilgrim was born in Britian but now is an American by law, more GM connections?

Dereck Bell's youngest son is an American citizen. Ron Dennis's wife was/is American.


Bobby Rahal still lives in England. Danny Sulivan lives somewhere in Europe.

The line of one's nationality is sometimes blurred.

[andy_bee]

Originally posted by stevew
Don't know...

Was it Bertrand Gachot who "changed" his nationality from Belgian to French?
Any others?

Yeap, his father was Belgian, he was born in Belgium, had a French mother and lived for some of his life in Luxembourg. part of the reason he had the EU flag on his lid

[LuckyStrike1]

You can't have two citizenships so there it is .. the nationality is decided by the drivers citizenship.

There are no monegasques on the grid but almost all the drivers live in Monaco.

Michael Schumacher is german but lives in Switzerland ... eg he is a german citizen living abroad. One of many examples.

[tifosi]

Uh,

lucky Strike many , MANY people can and do have dual citizenship, my son for one is both citizen of the US and Germany. As has been pointed out it is the country where you receive your liscense from, its not really that complicated.

[gazdean]

Originally posted by LuckyStrike1
You can't have two citizenships so there it is .. the nationality is decided by the drivers citizenship.

There are no monegasques on the grid but almost all the drivers live in Monaco.

Michael Schumacher is german but lives in Switzerland ... eg he is a german citizen living abroad. One of many examples.

Really?
My son holds a British and an Italian passport. He's also eligible for a Swiss passport.
In the end does it really matter?

As Johnson said. "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel".

[LuckyStrike1]

Ehhhh hrrrrrrrrrrmmmmm okay wrong of me

I withdraw for the weekend ;)

[BRG]

Originally posted by stevew
John Watson was considered Irish

He was born in Belfast so he was born a British citizen, although I think that the Irish Republic also gives citizenship automatically to anyone born in Northern Ireland. It is the national MSA that issues the driver's racing licence that counts as foar as the FIA are concerned. AFAIK, Watson always raced on a British competition licence.

[padovani]

I remember once Antonio Pizzonia winning a F3000 race and they playing the british anthem for him. The announcers from brazilian tv were saying that was because of his license being british, not brazilian.

[BRG]

So when Pizzonia wins the WDC (as I expect him too), will that be yet another British win?? Not that we need any additional help, of course!;)

[Amadeus]

Originally posted by Liam
Eddie Irvine lives in Dublin, and is treated as a proper Irishman, yet as he was born in Northern Ireland, as as he wanted to race in England, he has a British racing license, so he's classified as british.

Interestingly, when Jordan won their first GP, the british national anthem was played and the Union Jack raised. , as the team is based in Silverstone. EJ made sure that after that the Irish Tricolour and Amhrán na bhFiann were used after that.

Are you sure?

I think that Eddie holds a RIAC racing licence (from the Republic), because a lot of his early racing was in the south. However, although he himself considers himself Irish the FIA alternate between the Irish and UK flags when he gets on the podium because he was born in NI.

[Gus]

I remember Nelson Piquet saying that he won one or two of his titles racing with a British competition license due to a problem he had with the Brazilian Racing Authorities.

Does that mean that Brits were supporting the wrong driver in '87?

[F1Johnny]

I believe that the driver can elect which nation they drive under. In the Olympics and World Cup Football, competitors with 2 passports or citzenships can usually choose, provided they have not competed for the other nation at a senior level. Here in Jamaica we got a lot of English based footballers who had not set foot in Jamaica for over 20 years but qualified by virtue of one or both of their parents nationalities.

I do not believe it would matter where the racing license was issued as nationality selected would supersede that. Also, I doubt that a competitor can change nationality mid way through their career.

[Ursus]

What the International Sporting Code says:

112. Nationality of a competitor or driver
As far as the application of this Code is concerned, every
competitor or driver who has obtained their licence from an ASN
takes the nationality of that ASN for the period of validity of that
licence. All drivers, irrespective of the nationality of their licence,
participating in any FIA World Championship event, shall retain
the nationality of their passport on all official documents and in all
meetings and information bulletins. For the FIA Touring Car
World Cup for Drivers, "nationality" will mean the nationality of the
driver's passport.

[Alapan]

Thanks Ursus

[Mila]

Originally posted by LuckyStrike1
There are no monegasques on the grid but almost all the drivers live in Monaco.

indeed.

the last Monegasque to drive F1 was Olivier Beretta.

[AndreasF1]

License and License only determine the nationality of a driver. Berger once threatened the Austrian govement that he would race with Monaco license if if was to get double taxed.

AndreasF1

[mikabest]

Originally posted by tifosi
Uh,

lucky Strike many , MANY people can and do have dual citizenship, my son for one is both citizen of the US and Germany. As has been pointed out it is the country where you receive your liscense from, its not really that complicated.

This system varies from country to country. For example in Finland you practically can't have a double citizenship. There are only a few rare cases when an adult person can have both Finnish and a foreign citizenship. Normally if you have another citizenship according to the system of the country where you live you can't have the Finnish one as well (for example if your mother, who is a Finnish citizen, is married to some foreign citizen and they live abroad, the child will get a Finnish citizenship because of his/her mother, but if the child gets also the citizenship of the father's and they all continuously live abroad, the child loses the Finnish citizenship when he/she is 21 - unless he/she can prove she/he still has proper connections to Finland).

So there where LuckyStrike lives might exist the same kind of a system than in Finland.

yours,
ever so biased MIKABEST

[tony]

Another interesting question is the nationality of the teams. Most are fully based somewhere near Silverstone. However, Minardi is sort of split between Italy and England. Toyata's F1 team is based in Germany. I imagine after spending megabucks on an F1 team the corporate big wigs at Toyota would be pissed if they played the German NA instead of the Japanese one. So I suppose the question is whether they determine team nationality from where the team is based or where the parent company is based....Toyota may very well be the exception here. Is the new Renault team based in France, or near Silverstone?

[taran]

The nationality of a team is also determined by the country that issues the permit.
Benetton, born from the ashes of the Toleman team, were very British until 1996, when Flav the Impaler got them an Italian permit.

The team were now officially Italian and they made quite a song & dance about it. The presentation was in Sicily to underline their Italianness....Flavio also made some tall remarks that they would be the best Italian team...(he was still smarting from the "defection" by M$.

When the team finished behind that OTHER Italian team, Benetton stopped trumpeting their Italian background.

[jun]

Originally posted by stevew

[jun]

what i meant to say was:
posted by Stevew

Was it Bertrand Gachot who "changed" his nationality from Belgian to French?

No, he changed his Belgian for a Luxembourg one. And he actually saw himself more as a European driver, hence the flag on his helmet!

[birdie]

It's decided by which country grants him or her a competition licence, ergo, usually, the nation of their birth. People only live in foreign climes to avoid excess tax - I'm sure that Button would not see himself as Monegasque....

no, in an FIA world championship you race as the nationality that is on your passport. In anything else such as one-off events, European championships etc, you use the nationality of the country that issues your racing license. You also have to live in (or make a good pretence at living in) the country that issues your license. This goes for World Championships in F1, Karting and Rallying.

Many european drivers spend time living in Italy during their teenage years and hence are listed in programmes as being Italian (Button was in this category) but revert to their actual nationality if they compete in a World Championship.

On the subject of team nationality. I believe it is the country that issues the team's Entrants license. To enter an FIA international championship you must hold the appropriate racing license AND be entered by a team holding an International Entrants license. If Toyota got their entrants license from the Japanese ASN then that is the nationality of the team. McLaren's junior team in the World Kart Championships last year was Finnish despite being based in Italy and funded from both the UK and Finland