19 replies to this topic

[dai_ferrari]

Saw where Eddie Jordan came out and said Sauber will never win a race, because, and only because, they use Ferrari engines. That Ferrari would never give them a stronger engine then the one they used. That the only way Sauber would ever win a race was if both Ferrari's fell out of the race. Must be so depressed with his car, he might as well as knock other cars. I think it is very funny, that the same thing goes for him, he ain't ever gonna win a race unless the Ferrari's, McLaren's, Williams or the Renault's drop out either, so who's he trying to fool anyway?? As for Ferrari giving them older engines, well nobody is forcing Sauber to buy them, but does anybody for one second think that either BMW or Mercedes if they were to sell their engines to a second team wouldn't also do the same exact thing? Of course the would. But we're forgetting one important thing here, Sauber could of course come up with a much better chassis than Ferrari, and gain back time lost due to horsepower on the engine, couldn't they? Of course. They are probably only down about 20-30 anyways, which isn't as much as it sounds. Look at Prost last year or the year before, they had Ferrari engines, but their chassis were so horrible it didn't matter, they were crap, and if they did any good, it was solely down to the Ferrari engine and the driver. Eddie as usual doesn't know what he's talking about again. Sounds to me like Ronspeak, don't it?

[dynamic]

i saw your topic but didnt know what he had said so later i checked the net again and checked the story on f1-live. Is this man crazy he was spanked last year by sauber and he dares to diss him only time jordan ever won was when we had two top teams who broke down in some races which jordan won they never dominated some race or a weekend and were never the best and im sure if there were only 2 top teams last year sauber could have done the same thing. Ive never had any respect for eddie (well both of them) but i dont know if you can have -respect but hes pushing the envelope

[Dunder]

1) This is covered in another thread!

see http://www.atlasf1.c...&threadid=36908

2) No it is not Ronspeak. EJ's is quite clear in implying that there is an agreement between Ferrari and Sauber as regards the type of indident we saw with MS and KR at the A1 Ring last year.

[dai_ferrari]

Dunder,

You are totally wrong! If Sauber, and I admit, it's a big "if", but if Sauber were to come up with a much better aero package and better designed car than Ferrari, using the the Ferrari engine that is one-step below what Ferrari currently use, and were either a half sec, or a whole sec faster than Ferrari, are you trying to say that Ferrari would impose itself on Sauber and tell them, "Well, sorry Mr. Sauber, we realize you're much faster than us, but we're gonna have to have you pull over for us, and let us by." What a bunch of bs!! An example if you'd like? I remember back in 92, when Ferrari built a hideous chassis, and were outqualified by both the Dallaras at Mexico!!! In fact, JJ Lehto finished 7th or 8th I believe, ahead of the Ferrari's! So, you're wrong! If Sauber build a much better car, then they will win, and Ferrari will NOT tell them to move over!

[Dunder]

Originally posted by dai_ferrari
Dunder,

You are totally wrong! If Sauber, and I admit, it's a big "if", but if Sauber were to come up with a much better aero package and better designed car than Ferrari, using the the Ferrari engine that is one-step below what Ferrari currently use, and were either a half sec, or a whole sec faster than Ferrari, are you trying to say that Ferrari would impose itself on Sauber and tell them, "Well, sorry Mr. Sauber, we realize you're much faster than us, but we're gonna have to have you pull over for us, and let us by." What a bunch of bs!! An example if you'd like? I remember back in 92, when Ferrari built a hideous chassis, and were outqualified by both the Dallaras at Mexico!!! In fact, JJ Lehto finished 7th or 8th I believe, ahead of the Ferrari's! So, you're wrong! If Sauber build a much better car, then they will win, and Ferrari will NOT tell them to move over!

Please read you fool!

How can I be wrong when I did not even express an opinion. All I did was clarify what Eddie Jordan said/implied.

[dai_ferrari]

Alright, then who is the fool? YOU!

You did express and opinion, you said it wasn't Ronspeak, that you thought that EJ was quite clear about some agreement between Ferrari and Sauber from last year. That's YOUR opinion on two things I said. You seem to agree with Ej, that is an opinion!

That's not what I read out of his statement. He said/implied that Sauber will never win as long as they have Ferrari engines. That was the statement that led to my post. I you read my posts you will see where I think he is totally wrong, and just crying cause his team wasn't as good as Sauber's was last year. Crying cause his Honda engines aren't anywhere near as good as the Ferrari engines in the Sauber.

I wasn't trying to make you look like a fool, just didn't agree with your implications on a Ferrari/Sauber deal as I wrote in my first post, that's all.

[Scudetto]

Dai,

I think you might be reading a bit too much into his post.

[Michael Connolly]

Eddie Jordan is simply giving his opinion that Sauber are effectively racing under the same constraints as Rubens - namely that if one of their cars is in front of MS they will be asked to move over.

Obviously they could refuse such a request, but his implication is that that would have the same kind of "relationship" impact as with Rubens.

In the same interview, he made it clear that he had the highest respect for the Sauber team and their achievements. He just doesn't enjy the conditions under which he beleives they're racing.

This is not to suggest that Eddie doesn't have a big mouth ;)

[dai_ferrari]

I get that part Michael, but again as I said above, "if" Sauber build a much better car than Ferrari, and it proves to be faster on the track than Ferrari and they are leading a Grand Prix, nobody can sit here and tell me that Ferrari are going to force Sauber to pull over and let Ferrari through! That's all I was saying in my initial post. Now if Sauber were in the position to have not quite as fast a car as Ferrari's, and somehow they were ahead, and Michael or whoever was driving the Ferrari was closing in fast, what's the problem if Ferrari ask them to move over, it happens all the time in F1. I still think it's sour grapes on Ej's part.

[Dunder]

Originally posted by dai_ferrari

You seem to agree with Ej, that is an opinion!

And how exactly did you deduce this? Are you Psychic?

The main pioint of my original post was to advise that this was a duplicate thread. If you had bothered you would note that I did actually express an opinion in the original thread. To make it nice and easy for you, here is what I said

quote
I still have mixed feelings about KR waiving MS through at Austria last year.

One one hand KR was essentially on probation and could not afford to get involved in a tangle with the WDC. On the other his comments in a Finnish interview later suggested that they (Sauber driver's) had to let Ferrari drivers through.

EJ's comments are interesting, but if Honda have fallen further behind Jordan might get into real problems. Maybe this is a hint that he wants a works deal for '03 (Toyota?)
unquote

[dai_ferrari]

okay Dunder,

As Scudetto said, maybe I read too much in your post, but the reason I started my post, was that I didn't see the connection between a supposed contract/agreement with Ferrari/Sauber having anything to do with Sauber being able to win races. That's the point I was making. I didn't and I don't think EJ's got a leg to stand on here. Yes, I can agree with you that it could be a hint that he'd like a works deal exclusively for '03. I for one am very disappointed with what Honda have done these last years, as I suppose EJ is too.

[Mrv]

Eddie is a good guy. I think he just let out some steam due to frustration about Honda's engine. However his comment about Sauber not being allowed to pass a Ferrari is ridiculous. There is no contract between Ferrari and Sauber on this matter. Once again I will say that Ferrari do not own Sauber.

[dai_ferrari]

I agree Mrv,

What I've been trying to say all along. You think Peter Sauber who spend millions of dollars to not be able to win? Nobody would. He thinks that if he could possibly come up with a great chassis, which he's known to have done, even back to his Sauber Mercedes WSC days, (remember when Micahel drove with the team?) , then that coupled with a great Ferrari engine could give him his first win, along with a little luck thrown in there too. And if the conditions were right, as they were back in Spa '99, like Jordan, they too can get a win this year.

[klipywitz]

60Millions vs 250Millions.


The difference speaks for itself.


Ohhhh, but it would be incredible if they did come up with a better car....

[dai_ferrari]

Good point Klipywitz,

However, I remember the not too distant days when Ferrari used to spend 150-200 million and they couldn't even buy a race. So, you never know, but as you say, would be quite interesting wouldn't it?

[Hi Test]

Originally posted by klipywitz

Ohhhh, but it would be incredible if they did come up with a better car....

Maybe we will see in several days. With the F2001, aren't they essentially running the same engines at Melbourne?

[Jumboexpress]

I guarantee that either of the two HONDA powered teams will finish ahead of the Sauber. Wanna make a bet? all you guys can slag HONDA for now but just wait till these season starts then well see. I'll gladly and humbly admit my mistakes if proven so, but until then HONDA will kick the Sauber using Ferrari engines. Mark my word

[Jumboexpress]

And mind you it will not take 21 freaking years or so like ferrari to achieve HONDA'S winning goal. I wonder what kind of excuses Ferrari fans would have hmmm.......

[Zmeej]

Mrv

Ferrari may not own Sauber, and there are no team orders of the kind that constrain Rubens, but there has been a sense that the two outfits are in cahoots for at least five years now.

In that time, it has often been easier for a red car to pass/lap a Sauber than for a silver or blue one. (Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it should be admitted.) Swerve knows all about it.;)

And another thing: Eddie is not a good guy. He's an asshole, a blowhard and a clown who's on a downslide that's likely to accelerate this year. Earlier in the offseason, I was hoping that for 2003 he'd get demoted to a team that's lower on the money pecking order, but as the racing approaches, I just WISH HE WOULD GO AWAY!

Piss off!

Be gone!

Ok, I'm better now.

[Nustang70]

Originally posted by Mrv
Eddie is a good guy. I think he just let out some steam due to frustration about Honda's engine. However his comment about Sauber not being allowed to pass a Ferrari is ridiculous. There is no contract between Ferrari and Sauber on this matter. Once again I will say that Ferrari do not own Sauber.

there may be no written contract, but Sauber is clearly in a position where they cannot afford to be too fast. If they showed too much speed, i think one of two things would happen. Either a) Ferrari would compel them to share some information, or
b) Ferrari would choose to stop supplying a team that poses an immediate threat to them.

this much i am sure of.