A new penalty has been introduced to F1 (finally!). Its called 'Drive Through'. Less harsh and taxing as opposed to Stop and Go. Stop and go is still to be used, but in some cases, drive through can be imposed for less serious driver infractions (all the driver needs to do is simply drive down the pit lane). What do u guys think?? Good or bad?? When would u guys have imposed drive through in previous years incidents?? (e.g. Ralf at Nurbugring 2001). Curious for responses.
New Penalty in F1 - 'Drive Through'
Started by
BuonoBruttoCattivo
, Feb 28 2002 02:35
23 replies to this topic
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#2
The RedBaron
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Posted 28 February 2002 - 02:48
Yep, Ralf at Nurburgring 2001 would be worth a "drive through" not a 10-sec stop/go penalty.
I didn't see it as a serious offence and he didn't gain any advantage crossing the line....although it could be deemed dangerous to oncoming cars.
I didn't see it as a serious offence and he didn't gain any advantage crossing the line....although it could be deemed dangerous to oncoming cars.
#3
Melbourne Park
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Posted 28 February 2002 - 02:49
With the new two way communications, one might be able to use a credit card, and confirm the burger and chips are ready, so its a fast drive through ... maybe mcDonalds should sponsor it ... Bernie, do I get a commission on that $10 million dollar idea? 
I can just imagine, Shumacher has been penalised, he has to do a McDonalds drive through, no need to worry about spilling the hot coffee, the Nomex will protect him ...
I can just imagine, Shumacher has been penalised, he has to do a McDonalds drive through, no need to worry about spilling the hot coffee, the Nomex will protect him ...
#4
130R
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Posted 28 February 2002 - 02:49
Interesting - but a penalty is a penalty and should recieve equal punishment, no?
Where did you hear of this Cattivo?
Where did you hear of this Cattivo?
#5
BuonoBruttoCattivo
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Posted 28 February 2002 - 02:53
Sorry I should have given u the source. Stefano Domenicali, sporting director (aka rule-book man) of Scuderia Ferrari, explained this new penalty to Rai Sport. Rai is Italy's no.1 TV station and has the F1 TV rights for the country. So good source.
#6
Dunder
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Posted 28 February 2002 - 02:54
Quote
Originally posted by BuonoBruttoCattivo
A new penalty has been introduced to F1 (finally!). Its called 'Drive Through'. Less harsh and taxing as opposed to Stop and Go. Stop and go is still to be used, but in some cases, drive through can be imposed for less serious driver infractions (all the driver needs to do is simply drive down the pit lane). What do u guys think?? Good or bad?? When would u could have imposed drive through in previous years incidents (e.g. Ralf at Nurbugring 2001)
Ralf's going over the white line is a good example. DC's pit lane speeding would be another. There were also some offences last year that went unpunished, I remember Ralf cutting numerous chicanes.
I like this idea in principle, but whether it is applied fairly in practice ...........
#7
Nikolas Garth
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Posted 28 February 2002 - 02:55
Quote
Are all crimes, crimes?Originally posted by 130R
Interesting - but a penalty is a penalty and should recieve equal punishment, no?
#8
klipywitz
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Posted 28 February 2002 - 03:23
Montoya has openly supported the new penalty option.
Montoya, himself, is expecting to be penalized at least once a weekend, so he can get his McFlurry during the race.
And he might be wanting some fries with that too.
Montoya, himself, is expecting to be penalized at least once a weekend, so he can get his McFlurry during the race.
And he might be wanting some fries with that too.
#9
KenC
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Posted 28 February 2002 - 03:29
Quote
Originally posted by BuonoBruttoCattivo
A new penalty has been introduced to F1 (finally!). Its called 'Drive Through'. Less harsh and taxing as opposed to Stop and Go. Stop and go is still to be used, but in some cases, drive through can be imposed for less serious driver infractions (all the driver needs to do is simply drive down the pit lane). What do u guys think?? Good or bad?? When would u guys have imposed drive through in previous years incidents?? (e.g. Ralf at Nurbugring 2001). Curious for responses.
Sure, why not? F1's penalty system has too much of an all or nothing quality to them, so having a less-harsh penalty seems reasonable. CART uses drive-thru penalties, and they seem to work fine.
#10
tinman
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Posted 28 February 2002 - 03:50
How come the FIA hasn't announced it officialy yet.
#11
ForzaF1
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Posted 28 February 2002 - 03:54
Good idea! I hope that this is accurate.
Stop & Go is too harsh IMO, and should only be used for serious and "un-sporting" type penalties.. for "Racing Incident" infractions (like Ralf's white line or pit lane speeding) a "drive through" penalty is much more appropriate.
Stop & Go is too harsh IMO, and should only be used for serious and "un-sporting" type penalties.. for "Racing Incident" infractions (like Ralf's white line or pit lane speeding) a "drive through" penalty is much more appropriate.
#13
Garagiste
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Posted 28 February 2002 - 09:59
Ralf's white line, certainly as it wasn't causing any danger to anybody. For the same reason, I don't think it's appropriate for pit lane speeding - stop & go 'em it's a safety issue.
(Yes, I'm aware that an infringement is likely to be in the region of 1/2 mph, but that's not the point).
I see it (hopefully) being used where somebody has run out of road and gained an advantage that they don't hand back. A stop go is a bit much in this situation, but a drive though should put you just behind where you would have been, which is appropriate.
Does anybody know how long you have to take it? I'm thinking of somebody deliberately gaining advantage of track position and putting in a few bansai laps to get a cushion... Also, what if you are handed the penalty just before a pit stop window in the race? Hardly need the pitlane any more congested at this time esp @ MONACO - shudder!
(Yes, I'm aware that an infringement is likely to be in the region of 1/2 mph, but that's not the point).
I see it (hopefully) being used where somebody has run out of road and gained an advantage that they don't hand back. A stop go is a bit much in this situation, but a drive though should put you just behind where you would have been, which is appropriate.
Does anybody know how long you have to take it? I'm thinking of somebody deliberately gaining advantage of track position and putting in a few bansai laps to get a cushion... Also, what if you are handed the penalty just before a pit stop window in the race? Hardly need the pitlane any more congested at this time esp @ MONACO - shudder!
#14
A3
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Posted 28 February 2002 - 11:05
Quote
Originally posted by klipywitz
Montoya has openly supported the new penalty option.
Montoya, himself, is expecting to be penalized at least once a weekend, so he can get his McFlurry during the race.
And he might be wanting some fries with that too.
On topic:
I like this new rule.
#16
Brian O Flaherty
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Posted 28 February 2002 - 11:22
Great idea. Good to see that occasionally the maFIA bring in good rules. I suppose the law of averages dictates that every now and again it has to happen. It's quite clear that some infringements should command a less severe penalty than a stop/go which loses you about 25-30 seconds in the race, effectively ending your competitive participation.
I do not agree that Ralf's going over the white line last year should have been a drive-through though. He came out onto the racing line too quickly, that is potentially lethal and in another scenarion could have been used by a race leader to halt the progress of the 2nd place man. If a precedent is set whereby this infringement is punished by a drive through, it may be a little more attractive than if it were a stop/go penalty.
I would say that safety matters (pit-lane speeding, crossing white lines, swerving) should be stop/go, and unfair time gains (jump starts, escape roads, cross-country) should be drive-throughs.
And I wasn't aware that the maFIA had to make their changes public. As long as they're in the rule book for the upcoming season, it's up to the teams to note them, and the journalists to report on them.
I do not agree that Ralf's going over the white line last year should have been a drive-through though. He came out onto the racing line too quickly, that is potentially lethal and in another scenarion could have been used by a race leader to halt the progress of the 2nd place man. If a precedent is set whereby this infringement is punished by a drive through, it may be a little more attractive than if it were a stop/go penalty.
I would say that safety matters (pit-lane speeding, crossing white lines, swerving) should be stop/go, and unfair time gains (jump starts, escape roads, cross-country) should be drive-throughs.
And I wasn't aware that the maFIA had to make their changes public. As long as they're in the rule book for the upcoming season, it's up to the teams to note them, and the journalists to report on them.
#17
LeTurc
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Posted 28 February 2002 - 11:24
This is what Hakkinen did by mistake in 98. Isnt it?
#18
markzed
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Posted 28 February 2002 - 12:52
I hope it's true.
Last year I started a thread about drive throughs instead of stop/go penalties. Maybe the FIA saw it and woke up to themselves.
Last year I started a thread about drive throughs instead of stop/go penalties. Maybe the FIA saw it and woke up to themselves.
#19
Clatter
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Posted 28 February 2002 - 13:02
Are you sure this is for real?
I agree it would be a good idea as long as it is applied consistently, but I've had a look at the rule book and can find no mention of it, only the stop go penalty.
I agree it would be a good idea as long as it is applied consistently, but I've had a look at the rule book and can find no mention of it, only the stop go penalty.
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#20
HSJ
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Posted 28 February 2002 - 17:09
I like this new penalty system. Though it does have its dangers. I belive Williams (of this forum, not FW) has pointed out that it could now be too subjective as to which infringement merits a stop-and-go and which only a drive-through. Thus some race results could be affected by subjective calls. Which would suck. No doubt Ferrari and MS would be favored!
But in the end, IMO this is the way to go, just write it in stone for which you get which penalty, no subjective judgement calls please.
But in the end, IMO this is the way to go, just write it in stone for which you get which penalty, no subjective judgement calls please.
#21
BuonoBruttoCattivo
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Posted 28 February 2002 - 17:21
originally quoted by HSJ
I agree. I have no information on how the calls will be made, and as a Ferrari fan I would not like to see a double standard applied to other teams which would favour us. But its probably safe to say IMO that if you gain positions during the race illegally, then u get Stop and Go for sure. Other stuff should be drive-through. That may be the basis.
Quote
But in the end, IMO this is the way to go, just write it in stone for which you get which penalty, no subjective judgement calls please.
I agree. I have no information on how the calls will be made, and as a Ferrari fan I would not like to see a double standard applied to other teams which would favour us. But its probably safe to say IMO that if you gain positions during the race illegally, then u get Stop and Go for sure. Other stuff should be drive-through. That may be the basis.
#22
Mrv
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Posted 28 February 2002 - 17:57
Quote
Originally posted by Melbourne Park
With the new two way communications, one might be able to use a credit card, and confirm the burger and chips are ready, so its a fast drive through ... maybe mcDonalds should sponsor it ... Bernie, do I get a commission on that $10 million dollar idea?
Well this is nothing new for Michael. Last year in many races he was so far ahead he had the time do go to the McDonalds drive through, and still win the race.
#23
DEVO
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Posted 28 February 2002 - 18:08
Why would this announcement just come out??? It seems a bit odd... maybe they are going to propose this "new" penalty at some future point and will start at some future race?
#24
Melbourne Park
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Posted 28 February 2002 - 23:57
Maybe Disney could win sponsorship for it.
Instead of having a drive through, the cars could drive off onto a separate penalty facility ... like a big road loop, where the car has to drive through a loop the loop 360 degree circle; and with twist, so that the car would come out out of the loop upside down, the ground effect keeping it stuck to the Disney inspired "Ride". Then a climb up another almost vertical wall, a twisting loop and then back down the right way onto the track ... Sort of a "Mad Mouse" for F1 cars ...
Instead of having a drive through, the cars could drive off onto a separate penalty facility ... like a big road loop, where the car has to drive through a loop the loop 360 degree circle; and with twist, so that the car would come out out of the loop upside down, the ground effect keeping it stuck to the Disney inspired "Ride". Then a climb up another almost vertical wall, a twisting loop and then back down the right way onto the track ... Sort of a "Mad Mouse" for F1 cars ...
