Take a vote, the topic concerns point system
in F1.
Do you think it would be fair to reward the one who sets the fastest time on saturday with one point?????????????????
Please, answer first just YES or NO, then some background for your respected opinion!
(Mine is YES, why not, its used also for example in some racing series in N.A.)
A point for pole position! POLL!
Started by
Elias
, Apr 14 2000 21:51
55 replies to this topic
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#2
Lamont
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Posted 14 April 2000 - 21:56
NO.
Points in F1 are awarded for finishing a race, not for where you start on the grid. F1 isn't just about going the fastest over one lap, it's about finishing the race first.
Points in F1 are awarded for finishing a race, not for where you start on the grid. F1 isn't just about going the fastest over one lap, it's about finishing the race first.
#3
BuzzingHornet
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Posted 14 April 2000 - 21:56
Yes... ok it will favour the guys with the fastest car but it will also make people try harder
#4
Todd
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Posted 14 April 2000 - 21:59
No - Pole is just about the car. So the driver can get it right for one lap. Big deal.
#5
Peeko
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Posted 14 April 2000 - 22:03
If you're going to give a point for pole, you gotta give a point for fastest lap.
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Ron Dennis is a Wuss
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Ron Dennis is a Wuss
#6
Mr. Salty
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Posted 14 April 2000 - 22:15
Yes. Mika needs the help. 
I'd like one for pole and one for fastest lap as well.
I'd like one for pole and one for fastest lap as well.
#7
variocam
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Posted 14 April 2000 - 22:22
NO.
It used to be good when it was easier to pass in F1, but now, starting first is a big enough prize in itself. If you can stay ahead in the first lap, you will most likely be leading the train for the race if you dont retire.
It used to be good when it was easier to pass in F1, but now, starting first is a big enough prize in itself. If you can stay ahead in the first lap, you will most likely be leading the train for the race if you dont retire.
#8
Bob Nomates
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Posted 14 April 2000 - 22:27
No not pole, but for the fastest lap yes, it would be great to see cars that aren't in the points coming into the pits for a fresh set of tyers with just a couple of laps to go to try to set the fastest lap.
#9
The Jet
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Posted 14 April 2000 - 22:44
I agree with Bob. Give one for fastest lap and that may incent drivers to push a little harder throughout the race.
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Jet
"90% of the game is half mental" -Yogi Berra
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Jet
"90% of the game is half mental" -Yogi Berra
#10
Nelson
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Posted 14 April 2000 - 22:52
NO
Chances are that the guy on pole will win and get ten points anyway 'cos it's so bloody hard to pass. A pint, sorry point, for fastest lap's a good idea though for the same reasons as Bob Nomates gives.
What about a CONSTRUCTORS, not drivers, point for the team that does the fastest pitstop? That would give the teams a real bonus.
Chances are that the guy on pole will win and get ten points anyway 'cos it's so bloody hard to pass. A pint, sorry point, for fastest lap's a good idea though for the same reasons as Bob Nomates gives.
What about a CONSTRUCTORS, not drivers, point for the team that does the fastest pitstop? That would give the teams a real bonus.
#11
Williams
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Posted 14 April 2000 - 23:17
NO, because pole already has a big enough reward in the advantage in confers in most races.
Instead a point for fastest lap should be given, to reward a fast car and driver who may not necessarily have a chance to finish high in the race order.
Instead a point for fastest lap should be given, to reward a fast car and driver who may not necessarily have a chance to finish high in the race order.
#12
RedFever
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Posted 14 April 2000 - 23:17
BH, total nonsense. With grooved tires, passing is impossible, therefore qualifying is already essential. Drivers are already giving 150%, there is no need for extra incentives. A point would only be another way of pushing smaller teams more behind. Forget it.
#13
TBone
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Posted 14 April 2000 - 23:23
NO.
My opinion is about the same as variocam's. Same with the fastest lap ... Usually they are scored by drivers that win the race or finish second anyway.
Finding an ideal scoring system is tough. On the one hand you want the guy who wins the most races to be the champ, but on the other hand you'd like to give points to drivers that finish in the top 10, especially now, with so many teams battling for third in the constructor's championship, but this tends to reward reliability over speed too much.
My opinion is about the same as variocam's. Same with the fastest lap ... Usually they are scored by drivers that win the race or finish second anyway.
Finding an ideal scoring system is tough. On the one hand you want the guy who wins the most races to be the champ, but on the other hand you'd like to give points to drivers that finish in the top 10, especially now, with so many teams battling for third in the constructor's championship, but this tends to reward reliability over speed too much.
#14
bigblue
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Posted 14 April 2000 - 23:37
no, points for racing and doing well. To finish first, first you must finish.
#15
man from martinlaakso
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Posted 14 April 2000 - 23:39
NO
Because it is easier to get a good start from the pole, and then control the race from the leader's post, and because the overtaking is so difficult, the pole man has his reward all ready. An extra point would be too much. I am also against giving extra point to the fastest lap. The current system is good enough.
Todd, you wrote, that the car will decide, who is the pole man. I would comment it so, that the potential of the car must be enough good, but the driver's motivation, aggressivness and the skill (and luck) to go out at the right time are the crucial things. MH took the pole in Melbourne and Imola, although his car at least on Saturday was not as good as Schumey's car.
Because it is easier to get a good start from the pole, and then control the race from the leader's post, and because the overtaking is so difficult, the pole man has his reward all ready. An extra point would be too much. I am also against giving extra point to the fastest lap. The current system is good enough.
Todd, you wrote, that the car will decide, who is the pole man. I would comment it so, that the potential of the car must be enough good, but the driver's motivation, aggressivness and the skill (and luck) to go out at the right time are the crucial things. MH took the pole in Melbourne and Imola, although his car at least on Saturday was not as good as Schumey's car.
#16
CaptnMark
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Posted 15 April 2000 - 00:08
Yes, but not if you win the race 
#17
Pascal
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Posted 15 April 2000 - 00:44
No, this is a race we are talking about, not a Rally special stage...
#18
journeyman
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Posted 15 April 2000 - 00:54
I propose we give an extra point for all of the following:
1. Car with the coolest paint job.
2. Mechanic with the dirtiest fingernails.
3. Girlfriend/wife with the nicest rack (this could change from race to race).
4. Highest score on an in-depth test over F1/NASCAR/American/World history. [cf. magnum's thread on the Schumacher interview]
5. Most cubic feet of gravel scattered per race (Jos Verstappen=WDC!)
1. Car with the coolest paint job.
2. Mechanic with the dirtiest fingernails.
3. Girlfriend/wife with the nicest rack (this could change from race to race).
4. Highest score on an in-depth test over F1/NASCAR/American/World history. [cf. magnum's thread on the Schumacher interview]
5. Most cubic feet of gravel scattered per race (Jos Verstappen=WDC!)
#19
Czesc
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Posted 15 April 2000 - 01:38
No.
The system is just fine as it is, although an extra point for the fastest lap would probably increase the action behind those competing for the first six places.
And although I'm a MH fan and I know he would benefit from a pole point, I'm against this because, as Lamont posted above, F1 is about doing the whole race distance, not a one lap time trial.
The system is just fine as it is, although an extra point for the fastest lap would probably increase the action behind those competing for the first six places.
And although I'm a MH fan and I know he would benefit from a pole point, I'm against this because, as Lamont posted above, F1 is about doing the whole race distance, not a one lap time trial.
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#20
vroom-vroom
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Posted 15 April 2000 - 01:48
Yes, of course. I'd like to see an extra point given for pole, fastest lap, and most laps in the lead. It can only have one effect: stimulate competition.
#21
Franco
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Posted 15 April 2000 - 01:52
YES
I guess im against the trend here, but I find that many times qualifying is much more exciting than the race itself, so why not reward the winner of the contest (on the scoreboard, not with the pole race advantage). However, I think it would be cool if the point is taken away if the pole sitter goes on to wins the race, but this may be complicating the rules a bit much. 1 lap runs dont show the skill of the driver but only the car? Nonsense. This is like saying that all of Senna's poles were due to his car only.
I guess im against the trend here, but I find that many times qualifying is much more exciting than the race itself, so why not reward the winner of the contest (on the scoreboard, not with the pole race advantage). However, I think it would be cool if the point is taken away if the pole sitter goes on to wins the race, but this may be complicating the rules a bit much. 1 lap runs dont show the skill of the driver but only the car? Nonsense. This is like saying that all of Senna's poles were due to his car only.
#22
Peeko
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Posted 15 April 2000 - 01:55
NO, because Senna was magic.
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Ron Dennis is a Wuss
[This message has been edited by Peeko (edited 04-14-2000).]
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Ron Dennis is a Wuss
[This message has been edited by Peeko (edited 04-14-2000).]
#23
Nathan
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Posted 15 April 2000 - 02:25
NO
NO
NO
NO
NO
It would be a farce. The race is all that counts. You want points. Qualify well so you will be in position to recieve them.
NO
NO
NO
NO
It would be a farce. The race is all that counts. You want points. Qualify well so you will be in position to recieve them.
#24
Hoosier Tifosi
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Posted 15 April 2000 - 02:33
No to point(s) for pole.
No to point(s) for front row start.
No to point(s) for fast lap.
No to point(s) for leading a lap.
No to point(s) for leading the most laps.
No to point(s) for best improvement on starting position.
No to point(s) for finishes worse than 6th.
No to point(s) for fastest pitstop (Do I have to take fuel? how much? or tyres?)
No to any other gimmick points.
I like NASCAR, but one outcomes-based point system is quite enough. I don't think it would add a thing to F1.
[This message has been edited by Hoosier Tifosi (edited 04-14-2000).]
No to point(s) for front row start.
No to point(s) for fast lap.
No to point(s) for leading a lap.
No to point(s) for leading the most laps.
No to point(s) for best improvement on starting position.
No to point(s) for finishes worse than 6th.
No to point(s) for fastest pitstop (Do I have to take fuel? how much? or tyres?)
No to any other gimmick points.
I like NASCAR, but one outcomes-based point system is quite enough. I don't think it would add a thing to F1.
[This message has been edited by Hoosier Tifosi (edited 04-14-2000).]
#25
John B
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Posted 15 April 2000 - 02:44
No, because it will promote special engines and the like. In the other series, more points are awarded to competitors so a point for pole means less than in F1, where it would equal 10% of a win.
With the difficulty in passing, starting up front is reward enough for a good qualifying run.
With the difficulty in passing, starting up front is reward enough for a good qualifying run.
#26
Rich
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Posted 15 April 2000 - 02:51
No.
Points for pole, fastest lap, shortest pitstop, most laps in the lead etc only further favour the cars which are already fastest. The rich don't need to get richer, having a great car is reward in itself.
Points for pole, fastest lap, shortest pitstop, most laps in the lead etc only further favour the cars which are already fastest. The rich don't need to get richer, having a great car is reward in itself.
#27
!!ManumissioN!!
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Posted 15 April 2000 - 02:53
OK,
I guess I have time enough for one last post.
I feel no points should be awarded for poll. Rather, what should be done is that the points structure for the race itself should be changed, going back to the Nine Points for the win formula.
I guess I have time enough for one last post.
I feel no points should be awarded for poll. Rather, what should be done is that the points structure for the race itself should be changed, going back to the Nine Points for the win formula.
#28
Rogue
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Posted 15 April 2000 - 17:17
NO.
Starting from pole position is reward enough for the drivers/teams effort, and sets them up well for the race. As has been observed above, the cars at the pointy end don;t really need the help anyway, as they are typically the ones finishing highest anyway.
Fastest lap should also not get any other rewards, certainly not with the current style of racing. We already have a situation where drivers are basically going flat out for two or three stints in the race due to the requirement for pits stop and related strategy due to the impossibility of on track overtaking. The last thing we need is to encourage this further. If we were back in the old fuel economy days, however, I would be the first to suggest that a point for fastest lap would be good.
All said and done I think the F1 points system is actually pretty good. Our attention would be better spent trying to get some of the other rules changed...
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Rogue
f-1@ihug.com.au
Starting from pole position is reward enough for the drivers/teams effort, and sets them up well for the race. As has been observed above, the cars at the pointy end don;t really need the help anyway, as they are typically the ones finishing highest anyway.
Fastest lap should also not get any other rewards, certainly not with the current style of racing. We already have a situation where drivers are basically going flat out for two or three stints in the race due to the requirement for pits stop and related strategy due to the impossibility of on track overtaking. The last thing we need is to encourage this further. If we were back in the old fuel economy days, however, I would be the first to suggest that a point for fastest lap would be good.
All said and done I think the F1 points system is actually pretty good. Our attention would be better spent trying to get some of the other rules changed...
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Rogue
f-1@ihug.com.au
#29
selena
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Posted 16 April 2000 - 07:20
No. This is because if points are given for pole, then again the top teams will gain. They have already gained their reward by starting on pole, no need for them to gain some more advantage.
#31
Yelnats
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Posted 16 April 2000 - 10:03
I think points should be awarded to drivers who pass a faster qualifier for position (on the track, not the pits!). Then we might see some on track action for a change! {;->
#32
HP
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Posted 16 April 2000 - 11:52
No,
But I would like to see some extra incencitive for any successful "passing for position" on the track, and a penality for "passing in the pits".
But I would like to see some extra incencitive for any successful "passing for position" on the track, and a penality for "passing in the pits".
#33
Daemon
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Posted 16 April 2000 - 15:25
Nup...thats a poxy point for nothing. Why should a driver get a point just because he does the fastest lap? The reward for getting pole is being in front of all others at the start. Enough of a reward if you ask me...
#34
Mosquito
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Posted 16 April 2000 - 16:32
NO
Besides the high level of entertainment, the only reason for qualifying is that the track is not wide enough to just put the 22 cars next to each other.;)
Point for fastest lap? Maybe...
However, it's also something like 'bonus entertainment'. The whole point of driving a race and winning has nothing to do with a single fast lap. It is being consistently fast and reliable and to choose the best tactics under certain track conditions and race situations.
I know, it could give some extra entertainment from the lower positioned car in the race, but, it is still enforved entertainment. The goal should always be to finish as high as you can.
Besides the high level of entertainment, the only reason for qualifying is that the track is not wide enough to just put the 22 cars next to each other.;)
Point for fastest lap? Maybe...
However, it's also something like 'bonus entertainment'. The whole point of driving a race and winning has nothing to do with a single fast lap. It is being consistently fast and reliable and to choose the best tactics under certain track conditions and race situations.
I know, it could give some extra entertainment from the lower positioned car in the race, but, it is still enforved entertainment. The goal should always be to finish as high as you can.
#35
edi malinaric
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Posted 16 April 2000 - 17:22
What's all the fuss about?
This was handled far better in the fifties.
Pole man was handed a handicap for winning pole position by awarding him a case of champagne. This ensured that his advantage was immediately negated.
Style I tell you!
A point for fastest lap during the race has a certain merit - I would support that one. It wouldn't affect the championship too much - but it would add a bit of spice to the watching.
This was handled far better in the fifties.
Pole man was handed a handicap for winning pole position by awarding him a case of champagne. This ensured that his advantage was immediately negated.
Style I tell you!
A point for fastest lap during the race has a certain merit - I would support that one. It wouldn't affect the championship too much - but it would add a bit of spice to the watching.
#36
edi malinaric
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Posted 16 April 2000 - 17:24
What's all the fuss about?
This was handled far better in the fifties.
Pole man was handed a handicap for winning pole position by awarding him a case of champagne. This ensured that, overnight, his advantage was immediately negated.
Style I tell you!
A point for fastest lap during the race has a certain merit - I would support that one. It wouldn't affect the championship too much - but it would add a bit of spice to the watching.
This was handled far better in the fifties.
Pole man was handed a handicap for winning pole position by awarding him a case of champagne. This ensured that, overnight, his advantage was immediately negated.
Style I tell you!
A point for fastest lap during the race has a certain merit - I would support that one. It wouldn't affect the championship too much - but it would add a bit of spice to the watching.
#37
OssieFan
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Posted 16 April 2000 - 18:56
LEAVE FORMULA ONE ALONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
#38
Hoffy
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Posted 16 April 2000 - 07:04
Its been said, NO
I also think the poinst system in F1 is just about perfect the way it is
I also think the poinst system in F1 is just about perfect the way it is
#39
Conners
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Posted 16 April 2000 - 22:42
No.
It would favour the top teams too much. I could handle a point for fastest lap though, although that could lead to some of the teams messing around to get the point. Didn't there used to be a point for pole, many years ago? Or am I imagining it?
It would favour the top teams too much. I could handle a point for fastest lap though, although that could lead to some of the teams messing around to get the point. Didn't there used to be a point for pole, many years ago? Or am I imagining it?
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#40
avlehtine
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Posted 17 April 2000 - 07:34
No.
I'm a Finnish anti-Schumacher fan, but damn, racing is the name of the game. Too bad the cars don't presently allow too much of that.
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Anssi
I'm a Finnish anti-Schumacher fan, but damn, racing is the name of the game. Too bad the cars don't presently allow too much of that.
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Anssi
#41
Vicster
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Posted 17 April 2000 - 08:34
NO
But points for passing (not in the pits) might make some "pension drivers" start earning their keep.
But points for passing (not in the pits) might make some "pension drivers" start earning their keep.
#42
Nasty McBastard
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Posted 17 April 2000 - 10:18
every time ive ever seen a seasons results changed to take into account a point for fastest lap or pole position, atleast 75% of the bonus points just went to the dominant team of that year. and seeings as its the dominant team that usualy has one of its drivers take out the WC, all it did was make the points gap larger and the championship less tight at the end...
so NO
so NO
#43
Elias
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Posted 17 April 2000 - 14:56
Results so far:
Clear NO 26
Clear YES 6
Plus some supportable ideas where to get points for the less fast cars and teams; foxiest girlfried (Team benetton would do well, I guess, or was Flavio still dating Naomi...)
Hey, is this really this clear? I was thinking this from the point of view that why not reward the undoubtedly FASTEST man regardless of his car or team advance, and then let the one win who has both fast and DURABLE car...
Clear NO 26
Clear YES 6
Plus some supportable ideas where to get points for the less fast cars and teams; foxiest girlfried (Team benetton would do well, I guess, or was Flavio still dating Naomi...)
Hey, is this really this clear? I was thinking this from the point of view that why not reward the undoubtedly FASTEST man regardless of his car or team advance, and then let the one win who has both fast and DURABLE car...
#44
Samurai
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Posted 17 April 2000 - 15:35
Elias I think you got good points. I'm a latecomer but my vote is YES.
Qualifying is good entertainment, good watching. Reward the winner!! It's just 1 point isn't it, compared to the 26 points doled out for the race.
(I'm also biased because drivers I especially like, happened to be good qualifiers---- Senna, Damon, Mika) JV also is good.
[This message has been edited by Samurai (edited 04-17-2000).]
Qualifying is good entertainment, good watching. Reward the winner!! It's just 1 point isn't it, compared to the 26 points doled out for the race.
(I'm also biased because drivers I especially like, happened to be good qualifiers---- Senna, Damon, Mika) JV also is good.
[This message has been edited by Samurai (edited 04-17-2000).]
#45
h2fan
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Posted 17 April 2000 - 18:26
NO, No, No, (does this count as three no's ? .
F1 should be about racing not who has the fastest/best car over 1 lap.
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H2FAN
H20 = Water, H2F = Champagne
.F1 should be about racing not who has the fastest/best car over 1 lap.
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H2FAN
H20 = Water, H2F = Champagne
#46
Williams
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Posted 17 April 2000 - 18:35
H2Fan
I agree that there should be no (no no) points fo qualifying, but you must admit that F1 is often less about racing than it is about getting a good grid position on Saturday and getting a better pit strategy on Sunday than it is about racing. Plus the qualifying sessions are often quite a bit more exciting than the actual race.
Here's another, slightly off-topic, question; should Jean Alesi have gotten points for surviving the infamous rain of billboards in Brazil ?
I agree that there should be no (no no) points fo qualifying, but you must admit that F1 is often less about racing than it is about getting a good grid position on Saturday and getting a better pit strategy on Sunday than it is about racing. Plus the qualifying sessions are often quite a bit more exciting than the actual race.
Here's another, slightly off-topic, question; should Jean Alesi have gotten points for surviving the infamous rain of billboards in Brazil
?
#47
Cosworth_Power
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Posted 17 April 2000 - 07:29
How would it look like if the WDC would
be desided on a Saturday for one lap
at the last race at 13.59 local time.
So i would say no.
/r
be desided on a Saturday for one lap
at the last race at 13.59 local time.
So i would say no.
/r
#48
Laphroaig
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Posted 17 April 2000 - 07:35
My vote is also 'NO'. For mostly the same reasons as stateds above, qualification is only about getting yourself in a good position to score points in the race.
Although I found the Atlas article where they recalculated last years F1 season with the CART scoring system quite interesting. As you know CART gives a point for both qualifying and fastets lap, but still it favors consistency, Irvine came out on top dispite Hakkinen's 11 poles!
Although I found the Atlas article where they recalculated last years F1 season with the CART scoring system quite interesting. As you know CART gives a point for both qualifying and fastets lap, but still it favors consistency, Irvine came out on top dispite Hakkinen's 11 poles!
#49
Elias
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Posted 17 April 2000 - 07:49
Why do all people value the race so much over qualifying?
Still it (qualifying) is indeed often more hectic and thrilling than sundays race, which is quite boring sometimes. I bet drivers sometimes have to put more concentration and effort on qualifying than in actual race.
I still would appreciate it worth 1/10 (at least) compared to race, pointwise.
It sounds a little like saturday is not a part of the race weekend at all, to someone. I think the whole weekend is a big race and competition in itself. Thats why I personally would not complain if for example MS or MH or whoever won the championship on saturday, instead of sunday, with that one point margin. It would still be only one point, so if one guy took all the poles he would get 16/17 points pro season. Thats 1 win + 1 second, only.
(I'm not going to whine about this any more...... please how about just 0,5...okey 0,1 points.....)
Still it (qualifying) is indeed often more hectic and thrilling than sundays race, which is quite boring sometimes. I bet drivers sometimes have to put more concentration and effort on qualifying than in actual race.
I still would appreciate it worth 1/10 (at least) compared to race, pointwise.
It sounds a little like saturday is not a part of the race weekend at all, to someone. I think the whole weekend is a big race and competition in itself. Thats why I personally would not complain if for example MS or MH or whoever won the championship on saturday, instead of sunday, with that one point margin. It would still be only one point, so if one guy took all the poles he would get 16/17 points pro season. Thats 1 win + 1 second, only.
(I'm not going to whine about this any more...... please how about just 0,5...okey 0,1 points.....)
#50
magnum
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Posted 17 April 2000 - 07:56
No. Pole position is already an advantage - a HUGE one in modern f1 where passing is non-existant. Fastest lap, on the other hand, would be interesting.
