11 replies to this topic

[Bruce]

I have heard the following quote many times, regarding aggressiveness at the start of races... "you don't win the race at the first corner"...

That may have been true in the past, but is it still?

I think that the way drivers use the chop these days is evidence that preserving the lead through the first corner is a lot more important than it has been in the past... why is this? Well, for one, as we all know, passing a competitve car in F1 is rather difficult, but I think that, more important than this is pit strategy. A driver starts the race knowing that he has a specific strategy, and if that strategy is something like a two stopper (apparently both JPM and MS last race) it is KEY to get out in front and hare away, setting a whole succession of fastest lasps to make up the extra 20+ seconds in the pit. If you are caught behind a fairly competitve car with an heavier fuel load, you're toast - unable to take adavantage of your lighter fuel load and unable thus to win the race.

I think that sometimes, not always, that, these days, races ARE won in the first corner. As long as there is that much on the line, expect to see incidents like the racing accident we saw between MS and JPM....

[grmpreefan]

Its always better to arrive at the first corner in front but yes its even more important these days because of varying fuel loads and the danger of getting held up when running less fuel and I think this is a contributing factor to the manouvers we are seeing these days at the start of races.
I have never liked this refuelling business and I think its hurting formula one because its not allowing drivers to race on par with each other as often as they should be allowed to. This is compounded by the problem caused by aerodynamic turbulence when following other cars and not allowing them to attack with total confidence that the front end is going to stay on the road when they try to pass and so there is a dependence on picking varying strategies to get ahead of your opponents.
I say ban refuelling and get back to only tyre stops during the race. Place the emphasis back on setting the car up to last the whole race and not just have sprint stints each time. Different cars will handle differently on full tanks to other cars and the same as the fuel load comes down towards the end of the race and so that will cause overtaking in itself as some people struggle more than others with their cars behaviour. Also tyre preservation will be an issue again and more racecraft will be called upon during the drive.
Some people would say that will lead to processional racing but I think it will lead to closer racing and more genuine overtaking due to driver ability than just on the weight of the car due to the fuel load.

[Locai]

Well, considering that Montoya got a drive-through penalty and Michael had to come in for a new front wing I would say that getting to the first corner first is highly overrated. They basically ended up at the very back after that and still managed to get to the podium.

Mark Webber and Eddie Irvine managed to score points in Melbourne despite starting from the back. Starting from the back may well be what allowed them to make it to the points. They were far enough back to miss the chaos.

There's much more to a race than the first corner. Remember, you have to finish in order to finish in the points.

[Ricardo F1]

Quote

There's much more to a race than the first corner.

Which is hysterical because that's exactly what Schumacher always says. Why, therefore, was he so reluctant to let JPM (who had gone by) just go through???

[skylark68]

Bruce:

I'd be interested in seeing you pic for this race... So much to choose from...

Did I miss your Aussie pic Bruce???

[JForce]

Quote

Originally posted by Ricardo F1


Which is hysterical because that's exactly what Schumacher always says. Why, therefore, was he so reluctant to let JPM (who had gone by) just go through???

He hadn't gone by....Schuy was inside him at the first corner......

[Ricardo F1]

JPM was driving around Schumacher when Schumacher oversteered and lost it under braking. If he'd managed to hold on to it Schumacher would have turned inside Montoya and been taken at turn two.

[SeanValen]

Reasons to win first corner for Schuey and Pablo Juan Montoya:

1. Stratgey, the one in front, can straight away work on their strategy and not delay it, MS and JPM were on 2 stoppers, so needed to go for it, one side agressive, one side smart disciples of Senna and Prost school of driving, going for it , or not going for it, playing it safe etc.

2. Both Juan and Michael are aggressive, with a racers spirit, the fact that they are so confident, and intimitidators to the rest of the field like the late great Ayrton Senna, they gotta show seniority and authority on each other and let the field know about it, the psychological battle between drivers very important, get inside their head, the key to staying in position and overtaking sometimes, kinda like having 2 Senna's going for one corner, boom

3. Either play it safe or go for it, if they both felt they could take the corner, then so be it, its that simple, and they didn't think it would be a big risk.

[Bruce]

Quote

Originally posted by skylark68
Bruce:

I'd be interested in seeing you pic for this race... So much to choose from...

Did I miss your Aussie pic Bruce???

cartoon you mean?

Did you miss my Aussie one? I've no idea... but it will be displayed at thomsonart.com as soon as the new cartoon is posted on Wednesday...

As to this race - well I could tell you, but that would ruin the anticipation, wouldn't it??



I think that the thing that has happened with the "first corner" is that it has become more of a calculated risk. 15 years ago, neither JPM or MS would have been tempted to push quite so hard 300 metres into the race, because as Locai points out, the repercussions can be crippling. However, I really think that it has become a calculated risk to make such moves in that the risk is outweighed by the potential gain of crossing the line on the first lap as leader - I suspect that this means that there is something very wrong with the Formula in it's present form.

[KenC]

Quote

Originally posted by Bruce
I have heard the following quote many times, regarding aggressiveness at the start of races... "you don't win the race at the first corner"...

That may have been true in the past, but is it still?

I think that the way drivers use the chop these days is evidence that preserving the lead through the first corner is a lot more important than it has been in the past... why is this? Well, for one, as we all know, passing a competitve car in F1 is rather difficult, but I think that, more important than this is pit strategy. A driver starts the race knowing that he has a specific strategy, and if that strategy is something like a two stopper (apparently both JPM and MS last race) it is KEY to get out in front and hare away, setting a whole succession of fastest lasps to make up the extra 20+ seconds in the pit. If you are caught behind a fairly competitve car with an heavier fuel load, you're toast - unable to take adavantage of your lighter fuel load and unable thus to win the race.

I think that sometimes, not always, that, these days, races ARE won in the first corner. As long as there is that much on the line, expect to see incidents like the racing accident we saw between MS and JPM....

It's still true, you don't win the race at the first corner, you win it at the second!

And, yes, the risk-reward ratio for getting the lead early is much higher than in days of yore. And, of course, this is a follow-on to the fact that it is so much harder to pass today.

[TEquiLA]

Quote

Originally posted by Bruce
I have heard the following quote many times, regarding aggressiveness at the start of races... "you don't win the race at the first corner"...

That may have been true in the past, but is it still?

I think that the way drivers use the chop these days is evidence that preserving the lead through the first corner is a lot more important than it has been in the past... why is this? Well, for one, as we all know, passing a competitve car in F1 is rather difficult, but I think that, more important than this is pit strategy. A driver starts the race knowing that he has a specific strategy, and if that strategy is something like a two stopper (apparently both JPM and MS last race) it is KEY to get out in front and hare away, setting a whole succession of fastest lasps to make up the extra 20+ seconds in the pit. If you are caught behind a fairly competitve car with an heavier fuel load, you're toast - unable to take adavantage of your lighter fuel load and unable thus to win the race.

I think that sometimes, not always, that, these days, races ARE won in the first corner. As long as there is that much on the line, expect to see incidents like the racing accident we saw between MS and JPM....

You don't win the race at the first corner but you damn well loose it as we've seen.

[X-ray]

Quote

Originally posted by Ricardo F1


Which is hysterical because that's exactly what Schumacher always says. Why, therefore, was he so reluctant to let JPM (who had gone by) just go through???

Really? When if I may ask?