47 replies to this topic

[TheDestroyer]

Just read this in a 20 Mar press release from the FIA... HANS devices will be mandatory starting in the 2003 season.

[stephwh]

Geez MAX is an IDIOT that should be FIRED he is RUINING the sport!!!

[kober]

Well, the Gugelmin's crash persuaded me enough.

[TheDestroyer]

i'm glad they've adopted this rule... i'm even gladder that they studied the design and effects first before making it manadatory...

[AdrianM]

http://www.itvf1.com...ews_story/10013

[Locai]

I expect to see more drivers start using it before the end of the season. Once we get towards the end of the season and teams start trying out 2003 equipment I would think that this would be something that the teams would want to try also. Why not get the drivers used to it and get the seats adjusted to accomodate it and generally get the bugs out.

[logic]

No wonder it's Massa who uses it first.
I'v seen him driving and it seems he doesn't have much muscles in his neck since his head is waving from left to right very unsettled

[F1Johnny]

How will the HANS device affect exit times. I find that when the CART guys are getting out of their cars, it seems to take pretty long. But if it's safer overall use it.

Did JPM use it in CART?

[Locai]

Originally posted by F1Johnny
How will the HANS device affect exit times. I find that when the CART guys are getting out of their cars, it seems to take pretty long. But if it's safer overall use it.

Did JPM use it in CART?

I very much doubt that JPM used it in CART. I don't think that anybody used it a couple of years ago. It just really came to the fore-front when Dale Earnhardt died.

I'm not sure how much, if any, it slows down the open-cockpit drivers. It definitely slows down the guys in NASCAR, though. I've heard several NASCAR drivers say they need to make the window openings bigger.


Does anybody know if F1 is mandating the HANS device in particular or are there other restraints that are acceptable? I know that NASCAR also allows another system called the Hutchens (?) device that's a bunch of straps like a harness.

[vapaokie]

I believe that the HANS is mandatory in F1 next year, feel free to correct me.

I can't see how it will slow down open-cockpit drivers in exitig the car. Release the belts, and all tension should be off. Remove the cockpit collar (in US open wheel anyways) and you're out. Most of the guys I've seen climb out with it on haven't had much of a problem. Then again, I haven't really seen a situation yet where they needed to get out in a hurry.

Suprising how little controversy this is generating on the board. All were ready to crucify NASCAR for not making the HANS mandatory immediately after Earnhardt's death. Not to say that they weren't (unfortunately, still are) behind the safety curve, but still- a bit of hypocrisy.

The dark side of our favorite sport has claimed another. A sprint car driver was just killed driving a modified (a form of stock car, quite different than NASCAR) at Eldora speedway (one of the best, and fastest dirt ovals) in Ohio this past weekend. No word on the injury, but wouldn't surprise me to hear it was another basal skull fracture.

http://espn.go.com/r...07/1364583.html.

We're only talking about an 80 mph crash. Not too difficult to imagine a head on crash at or above that speed at the chicane in Monaco (Karl Wendlinger ring a bell?); or god forbid a suspension failure (there seems to have been a rash of those lately) in Eau Reuge at max g's or in turn 13 at Indy. I find it hard to believe no one has tested it yet.

[Ferrari Boy]

im all for anything which makes an improvement in safety, my only question is......why isnt being used as compulsory now???

[MONTOYASPEED]

Originally posted by F1Johnny
Did JPM use it in CART?

No.

[JForce]

If Massa is now using his hands to drive the car, he should do well at Imola

[MarkWRX]

Ferrari Boy - good question. The answer, IIRC, is that some F1 drivers tried the HANS device and found it uncomfortable and the manufacturers decided to make some changes to improve comfort, especially with high cockpit side cars like F1 has.

I hope to see drivers using it soon. Especially Michael and Juan Pablo. They can both use the "I couldn't turn my head enough to see him coming up, so I just turned in! I didn't know I was going to punt him off into the gravel trap. Pity."

Mark

[Ricardo F1]

Originally posted by Ferrari Boy
im all for anything which makes an improvement in safety, my only question is......why isnt being used as compulsory now???

Well I think we've seen with the changes since 1994 that F1 has adopted a pretty stringent monocoque when it comes to the safety of the drivers. I welcome it's introduction into F1, it would be interesting to see how serious Burti's accident at Spa would have been had he been wearing one, but I think it's just an additional safety precaution in a sport that is far safer for the driver than IRL/CART or Nascar.

[Alien]

Originally posted by F1Johnny
How will the HANS device affect exit times. I find that when the CART guys are getting out of their cars, it seems to take pretty long. But if it's safer overall use it.

Did JPM use it in CART?

JPM did use it in CART, he tested it at least and gave it *thumbs up*

In fact i think he crashed with it on an oval during practice, he destroyed the rear of the Lola against the wall. The only time he hit it i think.

[RiverRunner]

I've seen them used by just about all the top fuel drivers out there but I don't know if they are mandatory.Anyone seen them in Rally,DTM,ALMS etc...?
I suspect this is an item that someday will be an intregal part of helmet design and from what I understand the F-1 teams will be custom building them as a car item,not really per se a standard use thing for any car.
to the originator of this device I hope he gets the recognition he deserves in motorsports history

[Locai]

I guess someone should post the web address for HANS: www.hansdevice.com

I think that the main reason that it's not in-use right now in F1 is due to the driver's position in the car. The HANS device was co-developed by an engineering professor and a sports car racer. The original device was designed for a driver who sat upright. With the laidback position of F1 drivers, the original device would have them looking up at the sky! They had to design a new model before F1 drivers could use it.

It seems like what everybody has found out is that it's a wonderful piece of equipment. The biggest problem is that each type of racing needs to modify the design of their cars and they each need their own modifications to the HANS device.

It will become mandatory, I would think, in almost all types of motor racing within the next few years. If for no other reason than the governing bodies and the teams can't take the risk of getting sued when a driver gets killed from a head injury while not wearing a HANS device.

[Vincenzo007]

Wow! So the hans device is gonna be mandatory already next year? Those cockpit shots will make them look like space men! I just wonder what it will do to side to side neck mobility and whether that will not affect field of vision enough to make some drivers slower. I say Yoong for pole next season! Do you reckon this is a good idea or not?;)

Regards

Cenzo

[Clatter]

On the basis that anything that aids saftey has to be good, then its not a bad thing, however there have been several drivers who have said they are not happy with it (at least not in its current form) and I think as its their neck on the line they should have the final choice.

[Tomecek]

Originally posted by Vincenzo007
Do you reckon this is a good idea or not?;)

I definitely think this is good idea. Luciano Burti would make it easier after Spa 2001

[Duck]

The same issues and questions re mobility and visibility were raised by the NASCAR Winston Cup drivers when they first were required to wear the HANS/Hutchins Devices. At first, the Cup drivers claimed wearing the HANS would impede their exiting the cars in an emergency. Now, with the passage of time, not one driver would climb into a car without one.
Like with most new things, it takes time to get used to the feel of wearing a HANS. However, IMHO, the HANS is the greatest single safety device invented since the enclosed helmet. The F1 boys will get used to it.

[Ferrari Boy]

well said and i agree 100%. Safety should always be first

as far as leaving it up to the drivers, i dont think it is a good idea. After all we all know that seat belts save lives, but how many of us would bother to wear it everytime we hop into a car if it wasnt for the chance of being fined

[Locai]

Well, one thing to keep in mind is this: The HANS device is a work-in-progress. And that's a good thing!

The HANS is redesigned (I don't want to say "modified") for each new type of car that implements it. The version that NASCAR uses wouldn't work for an F1 car. Since an F1 driver lays back quite a bit versus the much more upright position of a NASCAR driver, the F1 driver would be looking up at the sky! The HANS version for F1 is designed to take into account the difference in driving position.

I doubt that the design of the HANS will remain the same from year to year. Also, as the IRL drivers learned, the HANS may require changes to the cockpit area.

I'm not sure how much safer the HANS will make it for the drivers in F1. F1 tracks tend not to have concrete walls mere inches from the drivers. Although, as was mentioned before, Burti may have been in better shape after his head-on crash into the tire barrier in Spa.

Overall, I'm very much in favor of the new rule. There haven't been any deaths in F1 recently and I'd prefer it stay that way!

[Manson]

Better late then never I say.

[Mosquito]

I think that as long as the drivers and constructors get a good say in it, it will in the end be a good thing.

Just out of curiousity: Before there weren't even seat belts, weren't there also discussions on how dangerous it could be to be strapped fixed into a burning car in case of an accident? (I'm speaking 50's and so, once read some interresting notes on safety in those days)

[hook]

I'm for it, and as soon as it hits the Formula One HiTech capability, the F1 HANS will be light years beyond of what we now see in other series.

[Chris G.]

What was the first major racing series to adopt this as mandatory? Any data on how (if) effective?

[vapaokie]

Considering the flames sent my way in other HANS related posts, I bring this one back up with great trepidation.

The speed announcing team mentioned it in passing before either the Silverstone or Hockenheim races that you aren't hearing much complaints about the HANS anymore, considering the great hue and cry before the season. It seems it has been adapted to the F1 cars now, and is working well now.

Comments?

[Jordan191]

Originally posted by Chris G.


What was the first major racing series to adopt this as mandatory? Any data on how (if) effective?

well of the top series that'd be NASCAR i think after all the publicity surrounding Dale Earndhardt's death at Daytona. they mandated it for 2002 IIRC

[StickShift]

it was mandatory on oval races in Cart by 2000 or 2001, and then eventually in all races.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Originally posted by Jordan191


well of the top series that'd be NASCAR i think after all the publicity surrounding Dale Earndhardt's death at Daytona. they mandated it for 2002 IIRC

CART and IRL mandated it before then, F1 had planned to but delayed it at least twice for one year each while they worked the kinks out of it.

NASCAR and safety dont belong in the same sentence. They're still trying to decide if they think soft walls are effective yet. If there's one thing NASCAR cant stand its being shown up. Regardless of evidence to the contrary, they have to research something as if its a new discovery and only when they think its worthwhile will they allow it.

[HSJ]

According to www.turunsanomat.fi/f1 Kimi's HANS failed to work as advertised at Hockenheim. HANS is supposed to prevent the driver's head from hitting the steering wheel among other things, but that's exactly what happened to Kimi (his head/helmet hit the steering wheel). I don't know if that was a freak accident or is the design faulty.

[BorderReiver]

Originally posted by HSJ
According to www.turunsanomat.fi/f1 Kimi's HANS failed to work as advertised at Hockenheim. HANS is supposed to prevent the driver's head from hitting the steering wheel among other things, but that's exactly what happened to Kimi (his head/helmet hit the steering wheel). I don't know if that was a freak accident or is the design faulty.

Funny, I thought Kimi's head looked a little bruised after the accident. . .

Then again it was hard to tell with all that acne. . .

[HSJ]

Originally posted by BorderReiver


Funny, I thought Kimi's head looked a little bruised after the accident. . .

Then again it was hard to tell with all that acne. . .

Dude, that's incredibly funny.

[BorderReiver]

Originally posted by HSJ


Dude, that's incredibly funny.

Not as funny as Kimi signing a personal sponsorship deal with Clearasil would be. . . .;)

[gbaker]

Originally posted by vapaokie
Considering the flames sent my way in other HANS related posts, I bring this one back up with great trepidation.

The speed announcing team mentioned it in passing before either the Silverstone or Hockenheim races that you aren't hearing much complaints about the HANS anymore, considering the great hue and cry before the season. It seems it has been adapted to the F1 cars now, and is working well now.

Comments?

It looks like they eventually got it to work. Of course, it took a specific F1 model, modifications to the cockpit and switching to a dual belt system to avoid the belts coming off the HANS, ala Wilson.

All this strikes me as more work and $ than it’s worth, especially if there are equally effective alternatives: http://www.isaacdirect.com

Yes, I’m with the company.

[Williams]

Originally posted by HSJ
According to www.turunsanomat.fi/f1 Kimi's HANS failed to work as advertised at Hockenheim. HANS is supposed to prevent the driver's head from hitting the steering wheel among other things, but that's exactly what happened to Kimi (his head/helmet hit the steering wheel). I don't know if that was a freak accident or is the design faulty.

Maybe he didn't have the helmet straps done up, and maybe that's why the whole issue has quietly gone away, with few driver complaints. I wonder how many of the HANS systems are being worn properly.

[gbaker]

Originally posted by HSJ
According to www.turunsanomat.fi/f1 Kimi's HANS failed to work as advertised at Hockenheim. HANS is supposed to prevent the driver's head from hitting the steering wheel among other things, but that's exactly what happened to Kimi (his head/helmet hit the steering wheel). I don't know if that was a freak accident or is the design faulty.

Is this how Ralf got his concussion this week?

(http://www.hindustan...19,00070007.htm)

[Manson]

The HANS is NOT designed to stop the drivers from hitting their heads on the steering wheel. It IS designed to limit the movement of the head and neck. It is entirely possible that with a close seating position to the steering wheel, severe contact could result in helmet to steering wheel contact. Look at NASCAR and how close they sit to the wheel. Neither driver suffered a BSF. Without it???

My buddy hit the wall this past weekend at about 120-140 mph with a HANS and walked away. Not even a hint of a sore neck.

The back car

The guy in front broke a couple ribs, had a concussion and a severe laceration.

[gbaker]

I guess nothing is going to prevent the helmet from contacting the wheel. I was curious if this was how Ralf received his concussion.

I see you are from Toronto and enjoy golf. I played at Glenview (I think it was) a couple weeks ago.

Have you been to the collector studio on Yorkville Avenue in Toronto?

[vapaokie]

Wow Manson, glad to hear your friend's alright. How's your racing going?

[Manson]

Hi gbaker! No, haven't been to either place. Racing is keeping me off the golf courses and the streets!

My season is going ok. Ninth in points, put in a 98 Kawasaki instead of my old 91-95 model. The 91-95 are stock appearing and the 96-02 have to be stock. They're a little down on power but after losing 4 bottom ends in 4 races earlier this year, I'm liking the improved reliablility!

[gbaker]

Originally posted by Manson
Hi gbaker! No, haven't been to either place. Racing is keeping me off the golf courses and the streets!

Manson,

Man, you gotta be kidding! Not about the golf, but the Collector Studio. It's downtown across from the Four Seasons. I stumbled onto it while walking around. A ton of stuff, most of it not in their catalog or online. I think I'll turn the 12 cyl. Lamborghini (sp?) engine block into a coffee table stand: http://www.collectorstudio.com/

Sorry to hear about the engine problems. Reliability is good.

[Manson]

I've got a complete Indy Car motor at the shop the was built for Bill? Eaton back in 71. It was designed and built from scratch with a government grant. Been dynoed, but never ran on the track.

I was down on Cumberland some time ago but missed it :

Sunset Speedway tomorrow...yehaw!

[HBoss]

what about this???

[Jhope]

What about it? How many drivers have suffered from spinal injuries since it was introduced? How many drivers have died of basilar stem separation since it was introduced?

It's almost impossible, as of now, to stop a concussion in the even of a severe accident. The HANS was not designed to stop concussions. It was designed to stop neck and head trauma's worse than a concussion.

Concussions are a way of life in *all* sports. There is research delaing with ways to stop this, but so far nothing has really worked. Especially in sports like Soccer, Rugby, Football and Hockey. Racing is dangerous, people seem to forget that. And the risks the drivers take now are significantly less than the risks being taken 10 years ago. The truth is that not all injuries are going to be stopped. And the one that seems hardest at the moment, it the concussion.

[gbaker]

Originally posted by Jhope
What about it? How many drivers have suffered from spinal injuries since it was introduced? How many drivers have died of basilar stem separation since it was introduced?

Injuries of these types have occurred among HANS users.

I agree that the prevention of concussions is a secondary objective of any head and neck restraint.