I have just heard, this afternoon, an interview with new(ish) author Robert Ryan, in which his book ''Early One Morning" was discussed - a novel based around the lives of Robert Benoist and Grover-Williams with some emphasis on the, allegedly, convoluted activities of 'Williams' after his recruitment by SOE.
Some of the speculative accounts of his fate were trumpeted in the press last year - although this author says he's been working on this for nearly eight years.
He sounded fairly realistic about the uncertain provenence of many of the stories (eg: the driver's reported death at Sachsenhausen; his possibly faked death and installation as a 'sleeper' in the Eastern bloc; his yet-further speculated clandestine return to France under assumed identity etc, etc) and doesn't appear to be claiming this to be anything more than a novel. He did sound genuinely interested in the history though.
Has anyone else seen this book or does anyone know any more more about it? It seems to have attracted praise even from rival publishers - as a novel, at least.
On a more frivolous note, it was stated that both finance and a script were in place for a film based on this. The author, Ryan, feels that Jean Reno is a ''shoe-in'' for Benoist. Any thoughts on this or who might be suitable to play the other driver?
''Benoist/Williams'' book & film?
Started by
2F-001
, Mar 24 2002 17:56
19 replies to this topic
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#2
David McKinney
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Posted 24 March 2002 - 18:59
The book has been reviewed by at least some of the national dailies in the UK
Ryan's thesis was discussed on this forum before that, but I don't think it was clear to us then that the man was writing a novel
Ryan's thesis was discussed on this forum before that, but I don't think it was clear to us then that the man was writing a novel
#3
ry6
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Posted 25 March 2002 - 11:20
Is this book now available in the bookshops?
#4
Vitesse2
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Posted 25 March 2002 - 12:06
From the plot synopsis, it appears that this is an example of what is known in the trade as "faction" - take a true story, add some fictional elements (probably including a love story 
) and muddy the waters so much that it is difficult to separate fact from fiction. The first and most successful of these was of course Thomas Kenneally's "Schindler's Ark", which was the basis of the film "Schindler's List".
It's a pity that this story didn't surface a few years earlier, since quite a number of key SOE operatives who might have been able to help verify it passed away in the 80s and 90s. On the other hand, if Ryan is not convinced of the veracity of his research, why would he write the article for the "Sunday Times", which only mentioned the novel as a footnote right at the end - no direct connection was even claimed and there was nothing about specific operations carried out by "Williams" and Benoist, which can be traced through surviving SOE files and MRD Foot's book "SOE in France": I think his intention was probably to draw a line and say "This is where the fact ends and the fiction begins".
Rob: UK publication was earlier this month - here's a link to the publisher's website.
http://www.hodderhea...000010674&best=
) and muddy the waters so much that it is difficult to separate fact from fiction. The first and most successful of these was of course Thomas Kenneally's "Schindler's Ark", which was the basis of the film "Schindler's List".It's a pity that this story didn't surface a few years earlier, since quite a number of key SOE operatives who might have been able to help verify it passed away in the 80s and 90s. On the other hand, if Ryan is not convinced of the veracity of his research, why would he write the article for the "Sunday Times", which only mentioned the novel as a footnote right at the end - no direct connection was even claimed and there was nothing about specific operations carried out by "Williams" and Benoist, which can be traced through surviving SOE files and MRD Foot's book "SOE in France": I think his intention was probably to draw a line and say "This is where the fact ends and the fiction begins".
Rob: UK publication was earlier this month - here's a link to the publisher's website.
http://www.hodderhea...000010674&best=
#5
Doug Nye
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Posted 25 March 2002 - 20:39
This whole 'Williams' mystery is either truly intriguing or it's a total crock of ----, with very little leeway for any alternatives in between. I was quoted in the 'Sunday Times' story since way back in the 1980s I believe it was I was contacted by a super-excited Dudley Gahagan - of VSCC ERA ownership fame. Dudley was a daft old devil in many ways and what he gabbled out to me was suitably extraordinary; "Amazing thing, I have just received intelligence that Grover-Williams did not die at all in German captivity just before the end of the war, he's alive and well and running a greengrocer's shop in Godalming!".
Since this was Dudley on the 'phone I did not have to pick myself up off the floor in amazement - I simply had to stifle a giggle.
Anyway - with the small town of Godalming only 12 miles away I checked the local trade directory and found Williams's the greengrocers. A guarded 'phone call confirmed that a) they knew nothing about Bugattis, b) no member of the family had ever lived in France, c) they knew nothing about motor racing or breeding dogs and d) no, there was no broccoli left.
I reported this back to Dudley who subsided in disappointment.
However, I am a devout believer in the fact that the vast majority of legends - no matter how daft -have some tiny kernel of truth related to them, from which they have grown...
A great old friend grew up through the 1920s and '30s loving Bugattis and to him 'Williams' was a Senna or Schumacher-like hero. He is absolutely infuriated and incensed beyond all measure by this story of 'Williams' having survived - since he recalls intelligence sources at war's end relating the execution to him. He is convinced that nobody such as 'Williams' could have returned to French civilian life unrecognised.
My gut reaction to the possibilities of his having survived are that HAD his identity been changed it would have been for a better darned reason than protection from Communist bloc agents.
The only alternative explanation I would think viable is that 'Williams' was found to have been responsible for the treachery which led to his network's capture, and to Benoist's execution, and that he had been 'let off' postwar for greater services previously rendered, and his name changed to shake others off his scent. Yet this is SO unlikely as to be laughable.
In the atmosphere of the 1940s he would simply have been despatched - 'our' side would have done to him what the concentration-camp SS had failed to do. He would simply have vanished. The fact that 'he' reappeared and lived out his life in Britanny or wherever it was just does not stack up. Someone, somewhere would have recognised him ... and if he had dues to pay, the price would have been exacted. On balance, I think I prefer the greengrocer in Godalming story.
DCN
Since this was Dudley on the 'phone I did not have to pick myself up off the floor in amazement - I simply had to stifle a giggle.
Anyway - with the small town of Godalming only 12 miles away I checked the local trade directory and found Williams's the greengrocers. A guarded 'phone call confirmed that a) they knew nothing about Bugattis, b) no member of the family had ever lived in France, c) they knew nothing about motor racing or breeding dogs and d) no, there was no broccoli left.
I reported this back to Dudley who subsided in disappointment.
However, I am a devout believer in the fact that the vast majority of legends - no matter how daft -have some tiny kernel of truth related to them, from which they have grown...
A great old friend grew up through the 1920s and '30s loving Bugattis and to him 'Williams' was a Senna or Schumacher-like hero. He is absolutely infuriated and incensed beyond all measure by this story of 'Williams' having survived - since he recalls intelligence sources at war's end relating the execution to him. He is convinced that nobody such as 'Williams' could have returned to French civilian life unrecognised.
My gut reaction to the possibilities of his having survived are that HAD his identity been changed it would have been for a better darned reason than protection from Communist bloc agents.
The only alternative explanation I would think viable is that 'Williams' was found to have been responsible for the treachery which led to his network's capture, and to Benoist's execution, and that he had been 'let off' postwar for greater services previously rendered, and his name changed to shake others off his scent. Yet this is SO unlikely as to be laughable.
In the atmosphere of the 1940s he would simply have been despatched - 'our' side would have done to him what the concentration-camp SS had failed to do. He would simply have vanished. The fact that 'he' reappeared and lived out his life in Britanny or wherever it was just does not stack up. Someone, somewhere would have recognised him ... and if he had dues to pay, the price would have been exacted. On balance, I think I prefer the greengrocer in Godalming story.
DCN
#6
David J Jones
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Posted 25 March 2002 - 23:46
DCN
The 30's and 40's are a fascinating period. I have not yet got around to really studying the activities of the French Resistance but I have the utmost admiratiion for the likes of Wimille, Benoist, Williams and Moulin.
I have found as I have studied the political and military situations for the period that what we at first understand as the truth turns out to be very probably a fiction arising from the myths of the times and that large amounts of documentation relating the events is hidden away in files of Government Departments - secured by the Official Secrets Acts.
I believe the SOE activities to be one of those areas which even today it would be considered undesirable for the truth to be known.
As an example I always quote the example of the Enigma code machine brought to England by Polish patriots in mid 1940 and which was used from the time of the Fall of France to read the German Luftwaffe and Army 'orders of the day'.
Despite this now being recorded as having happened nobody so far as I know has rewritten history to show the extent to which it was difficult for for the UK, with the facts it had, to have lost the war!
I read the Sunday Times article with interest - noting that a novel and film was being written about Williams- and I was stunned to find a theory that he might not have died at the hands of the Gestapo. Whilst acknowledging it might be possible that he had broken down and betrayed his cell I cannot see the former resistance members allowing him to survive in anonimity for very long. I believe they were like elephants and never forgot or forgave .....
The truth is often stranger than fiction and very often these clandestine organisations - like politicians - use the half truth or half answer as a cloak to the activities taking place.
The 30's and 40's are a fascinating period. I have not yet got around to really studying the activities of the French Resistance but I have the utmost admiratiion for the likes of Wimille, Benoist, Williams and Moulin.
I have found as I have studied the political and military situations for the period that what we at first understand as the truth turns out to be very probably a fiction arising from the myths of the times and that large amounts of documentation relating the events is hidden away in files of Government Departments - secured by the Official Secrets Acts.
I believe the SOE activities to be one of those areas which even today it would be considered undesirable for the truth to be known.
As an example I always quote the example of the Enigma code machine brought to England by Polish patriots in mid 1940 and which was used from the time of the Fall of France to read the German Luftwaffe and Army 'orders of the day'.
Despite this now being recorded as having happened nobody so far as I know has rewritten history to show the extent to which it was difficult for for the UK, with the facts it had, to have lost the war!
I read the Sunday Times article with interest - noting that a novel and film was being written about Williams- and I was stunned to find a theory that he might not have died at the hands of the Gestapo. Whilst acknowledging it might be possible that he had broken down and betrayed his cell I cannot see the former resistance members allowing him to survive in anonimity for very long. I believe they were like elephants and never forgot or forgave .....
The truth is often stranger than fiction and very often these clandestine organisations - like politicians - use the half truth or half answer as a cloak to the activities taking place.
#7
cabianca
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Posted 26 March 2002 - 01:18
Sorry to be a dense American, but do I understand Vitesse2's comments to state that there is no historic confirmation/documantation that Benoist or "Williams" took part in the Resistance or is this just Ryan's musing. Also, is the book "SRO in France" still in print. Can someone provide an ISBN.
#8
dmj
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Posted 26 March 2002 - 10:06
Shouldn't we rename this thread 'Allo 'Allo?
#9
Vitesse2
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Posted 26 March 2002 - 13:28
Michael - sorry, perhaps I didn't make myself clear! There is no doubt that Benoist, "Williams" and indeed Wimille were members of the same resistance circuit - what I was casting doubt on was the operations which Ryan ascribes to them in the novel. Without digging a lot, I'm pretty sure that theirs was primarily an intelligence-gathering group based in and around Paris: the whole point of much Resistance activity was that they should be able to blend in to a locality and garner information without being recognised. Ryan's novel has them spying on Zyklon-B production, which quite frankly is work that would more likely have been undertaken by MI9, not SOE.
SOE in France is still in print, published by HMSO Books, ISBN 0116301929, price just £5.25 and well worth the money!!
Also of interest may be another which I haven't read, but is by another knowledgable author:
The German Penetration of SOE France by Jean Overton Fuller. George Mann Books ISBN 0704102617 £9.95
edit/
Just a small caveat on the MRD Foot book: this was originally published in 1966 and revised in 1968. It is part of the official History of World War 2 series and Foot had access to some files which were not at that time open for public inspection. Some or all of those have probably now been released, but he would have been constricted in what he could write at the time in case he compromised subsequent operations by other security services and by the laws of libel not to mention the dreaded Official Secrets Act. I would dearly love to see a revised edition taking into account all the material released since then, not to mention the slew of memoirs by ex-members of the secret forces which have been published in the wake of the breaking of the Enigma story in 1974.
SOE in France is still in print, published by HMSO Books, ISBN 0116301929, price just £5.25 and well worth the money!!
Also of interest may be another which I haven't read, but is by another knowledgable author:
The German Penetration of SOE France by Jean Overton Fuller. George Mann Books ISBN 0704102617 £9.95
edit/
Just a small caveat on the MRD Foot book: this was originally published in 1966 and revised in 1968. It is part of the official History of World War 2 series and Foot had access to some files which were not at that time open for public inspection. Some or all of those have probably now been released, but he would have been constricted in what he could write at the time in case he compromised subsequent operations by other security services and by the laws of libel not to mention the dreaded Official Secrets Act. I would dearly love to see a revised edition taking into account all the material released since then, not to mention the slew of memoirs by ex-members of the secret forces which have been published in the wake of the breaking of the Enigma story in 1974.
#10
David J Jones
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Posted 26 March 2002 - 15:53
A further point concerning SOE.
SOE did not exist prior to 1940 and was established by Churchill who had a distrust of the traditional MI5 or 6.
As events turned out he was correct to do this as MI5 and 6 were well infiltrated by the Cambridge 5 and the Enigma secrets were being passed on to Stalin after the USSR entered the war.
Stalin used them as a means of confirming the details passed on by one of their own spies who was a member of Hitlers inner circle.
What a chance the author (Ryan) missed to play with history - he could have cast Williams as the man whose name was changed so he could uncover the activities of Burgess, Mclean, Philby Cairncross and Blunt.
Am I thinking to much like Le Carre or does the Zyklon B story have a better meaning for a US audience?
SOE did not exist prior to 1940 and was established by Churchill who had a distrust of the traditional MI5 or 6.
As events turned out he was correct to do this as MI5 and 6 were well infiltrated by the Cambridge 5 and the Enigma secrets were being passed on to Stalin after the USSR entered the war.
Stalin used them as a means of confirming the details passed on by one of their own spies who was a member of Hitlers inner circle.
What a chance the author (Ryan) missed to play with history - he could have cast Williams as the man whose name was changed so he could uncover the activities of Burgess, Mclean, Philby Cairncross and Blunt.
Am I thinking to much like Le Carre or does the Zyklon B story have a better meaning for a US audience?
#11
ensign14
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Posted 26 March 2002 - 19:15
It's possible that 'Williams' could have lived anonymously. The end of the war would have been nearly 20 years after his great successes. Would people in (say) Cornwall recognize John Watson today, if he disguised himself slightly? Also, Klaus Barbie stayed hidden for years, without the Resistance or the French government being able to get him. There must be other traitors and Gestapo sympathisers still lying low in France.
#12
Vitesse2
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Posted 26 March 2002 - 23:03
SOE was given the specific order to "Set Europe ablaze". Churchill's personal experience of unconventional warfare went back to the Cuban War of Independence and the Boer War in the 1890s - he was well aware of how much chaos could be caused by well-organised irregular forces.Originally posted by David J Jones
A further point concerning SOE.
SOE did not exist prior to 1940 and was established by Churchill who had a distrust of the traditional MI5 or 6.
Originally posted by David J Jones
As events turned out he was correct to do this as MI5 and 6 were well infiltrated by the Cambridge 5 and the Enigma secrets were being passed on to Stalin after the USSR entered the war.
Stalin used them as a means of confirming the details passed on by one of their own spies who was a member of Hitlers inner circle.
What a chance the author (Ryan) missed to play with history - he could have cast Williams as the man whose name was changed so he could uncover the activities of Burgess, Mclean, Philby Cairncross and Blunt.
Well yes, up to a point - F Section (the Anglo-French operation) was not penetrated by Communist spies to any great extent, but the Yugoslav (especially) and Greek operations were seriously compromised in this regard. F Section had more trouble with the Gaullist RF Section, MI9, the SD and the Gestapo (and yes, the first two were on our side!). I'm sure there is still more we don't yet know about the complicated relationships between German resistance groups, SOE, the Red Orchestra, MI6, MI9 etc.
I think you have it bang on David! As far as the publishing business is concerned, the Holocaust is still very bankable, especially in the USA. And of course, something like that will also help to sell translation rights in Europe. (Here speaks a cynical ex-bookseller!!)Originally posted by David J Jones
Am I thinking to much like Le Carre or does the Zyklon B story have a better meaning for a US audience?
#13
Vitesse2
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Posted 26 March 2002 - 23:12
Originally posted by ensign14
It's possible that 'Williams' could have lived anonymously. The end of the war would have been nearly 20 years after his great successes. Would people in (say) Cornwall recognize John Watson today, if he disguised himself slightly? Also, Klaus Barbie stayed hidden for years, without the Resistance or the French government being able to get him. There must be other traitors and Gestapo sympathisers still lying low in France.
Originally posted by Vitesse2, 17 Dec 2001
It would have been perfectly possible - we live today in a world where we are bombarded by images at every turn. Williams's face would not have been well-known, even to Grand Prix fans, in the the 1930s and 1940s, since contemporary press reports seldom, if ever, showed really clear images of the drivers. By the time the man alleged to have been Williams appeared in rural France, it was eighteen years since his most famous win and (if it was him) he had been highly trained in covert espionage techniques by the masterful experts of SOE, spent years undercover in occupied France before being betrayed by another person, and then spent time in a concentration camp - that would change anyone's appearance anyway. And a vital part of SOE training was using disguise to blend in to French life .... ]
#14
2F-001
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Posted 27 March 2002 - 08:22
I haven't yet tracked down the Sunday Times article, so I'm playing catch-up on some of this...
From what I have gleaned elsewhere, Ryan appears to have researched this matter with some zeal and interest; doesn't subscribe wholly with some of the theories he unearthed; and is not claiming his book as history.
However, out of curiosity, I took a look at the book yesterday...
The 'blurb' on the jacket is not a good start: presumably this is not written by the author(?)the second paragraph contains a sentence which makes one wince.
Inside, in the dedication, it is stated: " ...is a novel inspired by the lives of Robert Benoist, William Grover and Eve Aubicq".
The list of Ryan's other works includes one titled ''Trans Am''...!
But back to ''Early One Morning''...
I casually leafed through (checking out the typography - as that is my trade I despise and frequently decline to buy poorly typeset books: they are too tiring to read!) and my eyes alighted upon what appears to be another central character with the same name as someone I know, who is still alive and has a known history of senoir involvement SOE (I guess there is much we don't know too) and is a noted historian of that era. This person is connected to me via godparentage. I don't know if there is any connection - but it caught my attention.
Despite the ''novel'' declaration, Ryan has used the names of the real (famous) people he alludes to.
I also have a friend who is a F.A.N.Y. and keen amateur historian - maybe I'll run the thread so far past her and the family of the other 'character' and see if they have anything to offer...?
Curiosity further aroused, I bought a copy and will report in due course - my knowledge of motorsport in that era is poor compared to some of you here though, so I need to tread cautiously. But, having been told it is a novel, I shall try remember that. I have mis-givings about this approach - using so much historic reference and 'real' characters could engender (deliberately? misleadingly?) the notion that he 'knows' a lot to be 'fact' but feels he is not at liberty to declare so and thus endow the novel with a gravitas it wouldn't otherwise have.
From what I have gleaned elsewhere, Ryan appears to have researched this matter with some zeal and interest; doesn't subscribe wholly with some of the theories he unearthed; and is not claiming his book as history.
However, out of curiosity, I took a look at the book yesterday...
The 'blurb' on the jacket is not a good start: presumably this is not written by the author(?)the second paragraph contains a sentence which makes one wince.
Inside, in the dedication, it is stated: " ...is a novel inspired by the lives of Robert Benoist, William Grover and Eve Aubicq".
The list of Ryan's other works includes one titled ''Trans Am''...!
But back to ''Early One Morning''...
I casually leafed through (checking out the typography - as that is my trade I despise and frequently decline to buy poorly typeset books: they are too tiring to read!) and my eyes alighted upon what appears to be another central character with the same name as someone I know, who is still alive and has a known history of senoir involvement SOE (I guess there is much we don't know too) and is a noted historian of that era. This person is connected to me via godparentage. I don't know if there is any connection - but it caught my attention.
Despite the ''novel'' declaration, Ryan has used the names of the real (famous) people he alludes to.
I also have a friend who is a F.A.N.Y. and keen amateur historian - maybe I'll run the thread so far past her and the family of the other 'character' and see if they have anything to offer...?
Curiosity further aroused, I bought a copy and will report in due course - my knowledge of motorsport in that era is poor compared to some of you here though, so I need to tread cautiously. But, having been told it is a novel, I shall try remember that. I have mis-givings about this approach - using so much historic reference and 'real' characters could engender (deliberately? misleadingly?) the notion that he 'knows' a lot to be 'fact' but feels he is not at liberty to declare so and thus endow the novel with a gravitas it wouldn't otherwise have.
#15
ensign14
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Posted 27 March 2002 - 09:09
Originally posted by Vitesse2
It would have been perfectly possible - we live today in a world where we are bombarded by images at every turn. Williams's face would not have been well-known, even to Grand Prix fans, in the the 1930s and 1940s, since contemporary press reports seldom, if ever, showed really clear images of the drivers. By the time the man alleged to have been Williams appeared in rural France, it was eighteen years since his most famous win and (if it was him) he had been highly trained in covert espionage techniques by the masterful experts of SOE, spent years undercover in occupied France before being betrayed by another person, and then spent time in a concentration camp - that would change anyone's appearance anyway. And a vital part of SOE training was using disguise to blend in to French life .... ]
Couldn't have put it better myself...;)
#16
David J Jones
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Posted 03 April 2002 - 10:34
Just as I was about to enter the Dentists Torture Room this morining I was leafing through the April copy of Esquire when what should I see but photos of RB - JPW & GW.
Quick speed reading revealed it was mainly about RB but it did mention a trial in 1945 - 47 of the betrayer of RB.
Much to my surprise the case was RB v JPW.
Eventually RB's brother was convicted &b served 10yrs although he professed his innocence to the day he died.
The article mentions shady happenings around JPW & GW!
Don't bother trying to look up the trial transcript - it is sealed until 2027
Quick speed reading revealed it was mainly about RB but it did mention a trial in 1945 - 47 of the betrayer of RB.
Much to my surprise the case was RB v JPW.
Eventually RB's brother was convicted &b served 10yrs although he professed his innocence to the day he died.
The article mentions shady happenings around JPW & GW!
Don't bother trying to look up the trial transcript - it is sealed until 2027
#17
Vitesse2
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Posted 05 April 2002 - 22:04
There's a pretty negative editorial by Mick Walsh about the Ryan book in the May issue of Classic & Sports Car. But, for the uninitiated, the clincher about why Walsh is so dismissive is possibly due to the fact Joe Saward is apparently writing a book on Benoist and Williams, putting the opposite view about the possibility that Williams survived the war - Saward is described simply as an "F1 reporter". He does of course write for F1 Racing, which, like Classic & Sports Car is published by Haymarket - I leave you to draw your own conclusions
#18
ensign14
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Posted 05 April 2002 - 22:16
Hasn't Saward been working on this for ages? I seem to remember hints on it in Autosport about 8 years ago...
#19
Doug Nye
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Posted 05 April 2002 - 22:49
Vitesse - I somehow don't think you need have any worries that Mick Walsh wrote what he wrote to foster something being written by Joe Saward......nuff said?
DCN
DCN
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#20
Vitesse2
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Posted 05 April 2002 - 23:07
Okay Doug, I stand corrected! 
It's just the old cynic coming out in me again - cross-promotion and all that jazz ... like the shameless plugging of Nicholas Coleridge's latest novel in every Conde Nast magazine.
It's just the old cynic coming out in me again - cross-promotion and all that jazz ... like the shameless plugging of Nicholas Coleridge's latest novel in every Conde Nast magazine.
