33 replies to this topic

[Rainer Nyberg]

During 1974 Ronnie Peterson used a Lotus 72/76 hybrid at the German GP.
The lower image shows that occasion.

The upper image also seems show a modified version of the 72 but is a little bit unlike in appearance compared to the car on the lower image.

Maybe someone recall this ?

[BRG]

According to my results, Peterson had a 76 at the 1974 German GP, whilst Ickx had the 72E. But I can't see any difference between the two cars in your pictures - where was the first picture taken?

[Vitesse2]

Apart from the JPS logos, I can't see any material difference Rainer As I understand it all the 76s had 72 rear ends grafted on towards the end of the season. And BRG beat me to the question - where is the other picture from?

[David M. Kane]

Look at the sidpods, they are considerably different than the original 72.
They are much longer and come forward along the tub much farther forward
ALMOST like a ground effects sidpod.

[Vitesse2]

Er David, that's because it's a 76, not a 72! Or, as they wanted us to call it at the time, a JPS/9. Although Rainer has said it was a 72/76 hybrid, what you're actually looking at is a 76/72 hybrid - a 76 chassis with the rear end of a 72, as I posted above.

[Leif Snellman]

Originally posted by Vitesse2
what you're actually looking at is a 76/72 hybrid - a 76 chassis with the rear end of a 72, as I posted above.

The nose also looks much closer to a 72 than to a 76, (except for the front brake pods.).

[Vitesse2]

I think the original narrow nose was abandoned quite early in the 76's short career and the 72 nose substituted. I'm looking at a picture of Peterson in the Spanish GP in Lang Vol 3 and his car appears to have the 72 nose there too.

[Rainer Nyberg]

I don´t know the venue for the first picture. It was suggested that it was from Germany, but then I found the other one at FORIX so I got a bit confused.

It is mainly the nose section that don´t match a 76 but looks more like a 72, with the exception of the missing inboard brake vents. But maybe as Vitesse2 says it was actually made standard later for the 76.

[DOHC]

Vitesse2 is right as far as I can remember. The 76 never delivered, and piece by piece it was modified until it "became a 72". First a 72 rear was put on the car, and the 76 lost its biplane wing. Then the narrow nose got replaced by one similar to the 72's, and the sidepods which were orginially swept back triangular, became long structures, superficially anticipating what they were going to be like on the 78 and 79. I think the car in the two pictures is the same (save for logos), and that it's a 76 tub with nothing original remaining on it.

I only saw the 76 on track once, as a T car mostly in original 76 config, when Peterson took it for a spin. In the race he ran a 72 though.

[Vitesse2]

According to Doug's Autocourse History, the original concept for the 76 was a new 72, but 100 pounds lighter. Chapman finally abandoned it when he realised that all had been achieved was something that weighed the same as a 72 but had fifty new problems and wasn't as good as the 72 anyway.

[Vrba]

Here it is what happened in Germany back in 1974, in words of my good friend Felix Muelas:

"That car, in what is a very special form, with coolers faired-in behind the front wheels, cut-down type 72 nosecone and 72 rear-end sheltering beneath a 76 airbox is still codenamed JPS10 in history books. On Friday, Peterson had a shunt (probably due to a rear wheel broking) with 72/8 at Wippermann, damaging her severely. Then, overnight, Team´s mechanics assembled the "special" for Ronnie to race, using JPS10´s tub, radiators and front suspension, mated to the 72´s engine and rear suspension set."

Ronnie finished fourth, IIRC!

Hrvoje

[DOHC]

Sorry, my memory needs upgrading. I've just dug out my old 35 mm negatives from the Saturday practice sessions from the 1974 Swedish Grand Prix (sorry, I don't have any prints, and no scanner; the pictures don't add much except a few facts). In one run there, Peterson drives the # 1T car, a 76 looking just like in Rainer's two pictures, with one exception: the clear part of the windshield goes all the way down to the line below the JPS logo in Rainer's lower picture. In a second run, however, Peterson runs the car with the original triangular sidepods. Front and rear, as well as windshield, is the same though.

Just as a side remark concerning the testing that took place in those sessions: Ickx did a few runs with his 72E equipped with an airbox of the type which was in vogue in most teams then, the style shown on Depailler's Tyrrell 007 in Rainer's lower picture.

[Roger Clark]

The 76 (JPS/9) first appeared with long side pods at the Swedish GP, as described by DOHC. THey ducted air to the rear mounted radiators. When JPS/10 appeared at Zandvoort it had the same long side pods but the radiators had been moved forward to just behind the front wheels.

When the cars made their debut race appearance in South Africa, the nose sections were mounted on small extensions leaving a slight gap at the front of the monocoque. This suggest that there were aerodynamic problems with the original nose and could explain the adoption of the 72 nose.

[William Dale Jr]

I'm pretty sure that the top photo was taken at Monza, in the braking area for the Ascari chicane.

[rod]

Lotus type numbers are confusing enough, but now we have JPS type numbers to contend with as well. I presume the JPS/9 and JPS/10 numbers given above are chassis numbers rather than type numbers?

My recollection of the JPS era is very hazy. The livery first appeared on the 72, but as this was already a very familiar car, the name Lotus 72 was retained, and JPS were refered to as a sponsor. Then the 76 was officially (?) named the John Player Special. The 77 was the John Player Special Mk II, the 78 was the John Player Special Mk III and the 79 was the John Player Special Mk IV.

Then the 79 appeared in other liveries (Martini and Essex) and the JPS designation was quietly forgotten. I don't think JPS livery ever appeared on an 80 or 81, not sure about the 86 or 88, then reappeared on the 87 and persisted right up to the 98T. But I cannot recall any John Player Special Mark Numbers ever being designated during this second phase.

I have noticed an increasing (an laudable) tendancy of historians to insist on calling Grands Prix by their offical title (e.g. Grand Prix de L'ACDF) rather than the colloquial (French GP), so are we distorting history by retro-naming these cars Lotuses when in fact they were, at the time, John Player Specials? Or was the John Player Special name colloquial and Lotus official. What did it say on the entry forms?

As for tobacco advertising, wasn't Germany the first country to impose a ban? If so, that would explain the JPS logo on Rainer's 2nd picture, and the one with John Player Special (in full) must be 'somewhere other than Germany').

[Mohican]

Originally posted by rod
Lotus type numbers are confusing enough, but now we have JPS type numbers to contend with as well. I presume the JPS/9 and JPS/10 numbers given above are chassis numbers rather than type numbers?

My recollection of the JPS era is very hazy. The livery first appeared on the 72, but as this was already a very familiar car, the name Lotus 72 was retained, and JPS were refered to as a sponsor. Then the 76 was officially (?) named the John Player Special. The 77 was the John Player Special Mk II, the 78 was the John Player Special Mk III and the 79 was the John Player Special Mk IV.

Then the 79 appeared in other liveries (Martini and Essex) and the JPS designation was quietly forgotten. I don't think JPS livery ever appeared on an 80 or 81, not sure about the 86 or 88, then reappeared on the 87 and persisted right up to the 98T. But I cannot recall any John Player Special Mark Numbers ever being designated during this second phase.

I have noticed an increasing (an laudable) tendancy of historians to insist on calling Grands Prix by their offical title (e.g. Grand Prix de L'ACDF) rather than the colloquial (French GP), so are we distorting history by retro-naming these cars Lotuses when in fact they were, at the time, John Player Specials? Or was the John Player Special name colloquial and Lotus official. What did it say on the entry forms?

As for tobacco advertising, wasn't Germany the first country to impose a ban? If so, that would explain the JPS logo on Rainer's 2nd picture, and the one with John Player Special (in full) must be 'somewhere other than Germany').

The cars were "John Player Specials", the team was "John Player Team Lotus".

[DOHC]

Originally posted by William Dale Jr
I'm pretty sure that the top photo was taken at Monza, in the braking area for the Ascari chicane.

It looks exactly like that place to me too, and that was my first thought, but Peterson won the 1974 Italian in a 72E (the 76 never scored better than a 4th, if I remember correctly). Maybe he did a few practice runs in the 76 just like he did in Sweden? Then the picture isn't a race shot.

[DOHC]

In Bernard and Paul Henri Cahiers image archive, at the link

http://www.F1-Photo....n/DisplayBC.cgi

go to the 70s gallery, where you will find three images called "Peterson01". The one in the middle shows Peterson leading from Fittipaldi in the 1974 Italian GP; the picture is taken at the braking zone for the Ascari bend. Note the similarity to Rainer's first picture. But Cahier's race shot shows a 72E.

[Vitesse2]

JPS/9 & JPS/10 were indeed chassis numbers, a continuation of the Lotus 72 sequence, the last of which was 72/8. But at least initially, that was what the team wanted them called. However, this was one where the enthusiasts and press actually won - some called them the JPS Mark 1, some obstinately stuck to Lotus 76! As Rod says, subsequent models became known as Marks 2 to 4 inclusive, but IIRC the Lotus type numbers were back in common usage well before the change in sponsorship.

[David M. Kane]

Were 73,74 and 75 all stillborn projects. I thought at least one, either 73
or 74 was a Texaco F2 car. Pardon my ignorance, I have to live with every
day.

[Gary C]

Dave, the Lotus 74 was an F2 car, known as the 'Texaco Stars' as they were indeed sponsored by Texaco and ran in all-white livery.
PS. they weren't much cop either!!

[Vitesse2]

The 73 was a Formula 3 John Player Special (not all that successful either...), the 75 was the Elite Series II. For a complete list of Lotus type numbers:

http://www.race-cars...lity/lotusr.htm

[DOHC]

...and the 73 was a F3 car, which ran in JPS Team Lotus livery. Sorry, I see it was altready posted.

[fines]

To me the first pic also looks like Monza, and Peterson definitely drove JPS9 there in practice.

Lotus cars were officially named JPS in F1 for the years 1972-8. JPS 72D and E, Mk 1 (Lotus 76), Mk 2 (77), Mk3 (78) and Mk 4 (79). Chassis numbers were continued from the 72 series, although two more 72s were built after JPS9: a "new" 72-5 and 72-9. IIRC, it went til something like JPS21 or 22. In 1979 Martini took over sponsoring, and the cars were rechristened ML21 etc. But from now on they were Lotuses again.

Ah yes, and tobacco sponsorship was never "forbidden" in Germany. The Tobacco Companies refrained "voluntarily" from TV commercials and showing their logos in sports events from, iirc, 1978 onwards in order to prevent the government from imposing laws.

[Felix Muelas]

Originally posted by Vrba
... in words of my good friend Felix Muelas...

Dear Hrvoje : Thanks, but not really!
Those "words" were Doug Nye´s caption to a photograph in page 153 of his "Theme Lotus" (1956-1986) as you can see...
;)


Felix

[Rainer Nyberg]

Really an amazing looking parts-bin special..!

And it confirms the second picture to be Germany.

It seems like the appearance changed during the season for the Type 76, more than I thought.
On occasion I find something that I haven't seen before, and this is such occasion. That is why the 1970s is my favorite GP decade.

So much variety and creativity among the designers. At least to the point where the groundeffects became the norm...

[David M. Kane]

Would anyone agree with me that this was a truly flat period in Lotus design? Who was on the staff at this time, were they the same people who
would produce the 78 and 79 which were the pioneers of an all new era in
design in both F1 and Indy cars.

I find it really shocking that they managed to bomb on all fronts, F3, F2
and F1.

[DOHC]

I agree that it was a pretty flat period. Who was on the team? Plenty of people,presumably, but if you have a look at the designer side, it was Ralph Bellamy who had taken over after Maurice Phillippe had left. Phillippe designed e.g. the 49, 56 and the 72. (And in the meantime the less successful 63 and 64.) Bellamy did the 76 and 77, but for the ground effect project, with 78 and 79, Tony Rudd was in charge IIRC. At this time the projects had of course become more complex, so more people were required. Rudd had Peter Wright (aerodynamics) and Ralph Bellamy on his project team.

[ensign14]

And in 1976 they went from DNQing with the 76 in 1976 to winning by over a lap, and thence to world domination...were they keeping their 'best efforts' in reserve?

[Doug Nye]

Don't lose sight of the fact that while F1 'teams' in effect exist in a sponsorship-cushioned vacuum these days - largely insulated from the real world - in the mid-1970s Team Lotus was just one small component of a wider commercial group, Group Lotus, which was just about clinging on to survival by its fingertips...

What happened to Team Lotus during this period was simply that the ever-increasing pressures necessary to stay at - or near - the top in Formula 1 coincided with ever-increasing internal commercial pressures within - and upon - Group Lotus as a whole. Colin Chapman had his people juggling road car production, new process technologies, advancing R&D, his boat company and all kinds of other ambitions simultaneously with F1 (and F2/F3 early on) while the Type 72 had outgrown suitable tyre supply, budgets were really tight in straitened financial times, and the Type 76 to replace it showed hardly any improvement, which in the circumstances was hardly surprising... The Chapman magic had become unfocused, of necessity.

But ACBC paused long enough to draw breath and then had the wisdom to ask the question - find me a new F1 technology - which Peter Wright provided, under the political and technical umbrella erected by Tony Rudd - resulting in the Type 78 and 79 wing- and ground effect-cars. Ralph Bellamy was/is a nice man and a competent engineer, but not an Ernest Henry or a Vittorio Jano or another Colin Chapman or a Gordon Murray... That top drawer is just as small where the great designers are concerned.

DCN

[Geza Sury]

Originally posted by Felix Muelas
"That car, in what is a very special form, with coolers faired-in behind the front wheels, cut-down type 72 nosecone and 72 rear-end sheltering beneath a 76 airbox is still codenamed JPS10 in history books. On Friday, Peterson had a shunt (probably due to a rear wheel broking) with 72/8 at Wippermann, damaging her severely. Then, overnight, Team´s mechanics assembled the "special" for Ronnie to race, using JPS10´s tub, radiators and front suspension, mated to the 72´s engine and rear suspension set."

That's exactly what happened! Here's a quote from the book 'Ronnie Peterson - SuperSwede' by Alan Henry (in association with Ronnie Peterson):

The mechanics resigned themselves to a long night's work, grafting the rear end of the 72 onto the team's spare 76. It was funny how everyone was referring to the Lotus 76 now, even the Lotus personnel, instead of JPS/9.

[DOHC]

But the question is really how "special" this 72/76 hybrid in Germany was. The German GP was held in August, and already in early June 1974 in Sweden the car looks the same in one of Peterson's two Saturday practice runs with the 76. It appears to me that after the crash with 72/R8, the rear end that was grafted onto the 76 tub, etc, only implied that the rear suspension looked different from what it had been in June. And as the 76 never had a better finish than the 4th in Germany, maybe that rear end was all that was needed to take the 76 into somewhat more competitive conditions.

[stavelot]

Originally posted by William Dale Jr
I'm pretty sure that the top photo was taken at Monza, in the braking area for the Ascari chicane.

Exactly!

Peterson is there in front of Merzario (Iso-Williams). The photo is probably taken in practice.

[DOHC]

It is taken during practice as Peterson drove a 72E to victory in the race.