28 replies to this topic

[312 PB]

can we post artikles ?

from f1-live

Not everyone will be cheering for Ferrari

While the Imola circuit will be jam packed with Ferrari fans this weekend, the tifosi flocking to the Italian track in force to see their favourite team perform for the first time this season, there are two fans that have lost all their enthusiasm after being forced to pay 8,000 Euros to the Italian marque.

Norg Heinze and his brother own and operate the Itelben Motor Club and recently built a replica of Michael Schumacher's Formula One car in tribute to their hero. Ferrari discovered the infringement' of their marketing rights and instigated legal proceedings. The brothers dismantled their replica of the German's car in an attempt to pacify the championship winning team, however Ferrari continued with the case, eventually winning in a German court on Wednesday.

The sum initially pursued by the Formula One outfit was a lot larger than the 8000 Euros eventually awarded, however the Judge overseeing the case threw out the claim for 250,000 and ordered the Heinze brothers to pay out the smaller sum instead. However to them, 8000 may as well be 250,000 as both figures as impossible to obtain.

"We can't afford it," Norg Heinze said. "We have to make sure we have 1000 Euros together for June 1st to pay the first installment on time. I'll have to take out a loan or something, or pay daily installments. I don't know where we're going to get the money from. Ferrari doesn't need the money that's for sure. But it shows that Ferrari doesn't care about their fans. Ferrari is pleased that I buy and wear an expensive jacket, but I have already paid for it. A real fan who builds something for themselves to pay tribute to Michael like we do is probably out to get his butt kicked from the very start. Ferrari aren't interested in fans, they are just interested in money."

Despite their ordeal, the brothers will continue to build replica racing cars, but of other teams instead, such as Toyota, Williams and McLaren. However, the matter has left a bitter taste in their mouth and they refuse to wear Ferrari red any more and have turned away from their hero until he moves to another team.

"Ferrari can get me to sleep under a bridge with just bread and water to live off, but they won't be wanting to stop us from cheering him (Michael Schumacher) on. I just hope he looks for another team as soon as possible, for his fans sake."

huh ?

[MuMu]

"Ferrari are the soul and passion of racing..."

[HSJ]

Quote

Originally posted by MuMu
"Ferrari are the soul and passion of racing..."

[Gemini]

I might be wrong, as I am not an expert in copyright law in Germany, but the common sense tells me that real reason Ferrari put this case into court was that they did not only build it to "to pay tribute to Michael " but they also intended to make money on it, like getting people into the replica to be photographed etc.

Sole copyrights and marketing rights to "Ferrari" and "Ferrari F1" images are arguably the biggest assets of their company, no wonder they tried to protect it...

[baddog]

its pretty obvious there was a commercial element to their project as no company wastes time sueing anyone over a purely hobby based thing.

Methinks selective reporting

Shaun

[HP]

When they build replicas of other teams cars, I think they will sue them too.

[mountain dude]

too bad it had to end like this, but the brothers found out the hard way what it is like to swim in the shark-infested waters of formula one. and as they indeed did make some money, albeit minor sums, from their use of the ferrari logo etc, ferrari had to react, i guess.

why not set up a donation account, so other true fans can bail out the guys?

i pledge 10 euros if someone tells me where to send the money.

md

[Brian O Flaherty]

It's remarkable what you two (Gemini & BadDog) have extrapolated from that report Very cynical.
Maybe it's true but we certainly can't presume it to be.

Oh well, everyone's entitled to their opinion.

If what you are saying is true then Ferrari would have needed to prove what the brothers had in mind to win their case, and the report doesn't even hint at anything near what that proof was. The brothers, to me anyway, seem a little too bemused with the decision and the fine to have a guilty conscience. Now maybe I'm being naive

[mountain dude]

brian,

if your remark is aimed at my comment: i read somewhere in the german press, that the brothers did take money for displaying their car(s). not very much, but there you are. what more proof do you want?

md

[baddog]

Quote

Originally posted by Brian O Flaherty
It's remarkable what you two (Gemini & BadDog) have extrapolated from that report Very cynical.

thinking that a major company and sporting organisation would sue fans who WERENT in some way using their copyright for profit would be the cynical view. why would they bother? go to any grand prix.. see the fans dressed up, some with model ferraris on their heads. see anyone sueing them? nope.

Maybe it's true but we certainly can't presume it to be.

Oh well, everyone's entitled to their opinion.

If what you are saying is true then Ferrari would have needed to prove what the brothers had in mind to win their case, and the report doesn't even hint at anything near what that proof was. The brothers, to me anyway, seem a little too bemused with the decision and the fine to have a guilty conscience. Now maybe I'm being naive

yes you are..

Shaun

[palmas]

The schem:
You pay
you get in the "ferrari"
they take a picture


I'm shure they chose Ferrari for commercial reasons, not because they are fans (even if they are fans)!
They will not make the same profit out of a Toyota!

And now they are crying! I just hope 8.000€ is enough for them to stop!

[stuck-in-first-gear]

Quote

Originally posted by mountain dude

why not set up a donation account, so other true fans can bail out the guys?

i pledge 10 euros if someone tells me where to send the money.

md

Send it to me - I'll make sure the right person gets it ;)

BTW, its true that there was a commercial interest in the whole process (RTL). Anything else would be naive to think. Apparently, they even built in an engine, though not a 850+hp one, but some kinda lawnmower type.

[byrkus]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but last year I saw on RTL two brothers, who made replicas of Ferrari and Williams form 2001 (both Schumachers). One was fitted with a Ford, and the other with a BMW engine. Are those two these brothers, we are talking about???

[Zmeej]

Ferrari = Motorhead

[dai_ferrari]

Quote

Originally posted by palmas
The schem:
You pay
you get in the "ferrari"
they take a picture


I'm shure they chose Ferrari for commercial reasons, not because they are fans (even if they are fans)!
They will not make the same profit out of a Toyota!

And now they are crying! I just hope 8.000€ is enough for them to stop!

Thank you, someone who saw what they did and not just speculated that ferrari were out to screw a couple of loyal fans because they "only" build a replica. From another report I read, they were making pretty good money off of it, by taking photos of people with the car, so why feel sad for them? Every company who cares, protects their trademarks, it's business. Who's to say these guys couldn't have made the $8000 Euros, or more than that? Charge 5 euros to get a photo with a "real" F1 Ferrari that Schumacher drives. In Germany, with the fan base that MS has, I could easily see them making the $8000 and a ton more. Serves 'em right!

[312B3]

They displayed the car at a local butcher shop. Pictures were taken. They are a couple of enthusiasts. They did not rent it out or use it for any other commercial purposes. The reason of why Ferrari went after them is pretty clear. The fact that you guys know next to nothing of IPR protection is also pretty clear. But then again, you comment on racing all the time and seem to know little about that as well. This whole thing is a major PR faux pas for Ferrari, in the marque's 1st or 2nd biggest market. Too bad, Montezemolo ought to fire whomever pulled the trigger. It would have been nice for someone in Maranello to make a distinction between a couple of over-the-top fans and a professional counterfeitting operation. By the way, the two defendants already have built replicas of McLaren-Mercedes and BMW-Williams. Neither DaimlerChrysler nor BMW have shown any inclination to follow in Maranello's footsteps.

[hook]

Quote

Originally posted by 312B3
Too bad, Montezemolo ought to fire whomever pulled the trigger. It would have been nice for someone in Maranello to make a distinction between a couple of over-the-top fans and a professional counterfeitting operation. By the way, the two defendants already have built replicas of McLaren-Mercedes and BMW-Williams. Neither DaimlerChrysler nor BMW have shown any inclination to follow in Maranello's footsteps.

I've been a Ferrari fan all my life and I agree with you 312B3...I think that they messed up real bad with this whole deal.

[Liam]

They build a replica of a Ferrari, but can't afford 8000 euro?
Does that make sense? What did they make it out if Cardboard?

[gledz]

I heard a story once that Barrichello nearly came to blows with someone because their friend had made a replica Barrichello helmet and this person asked Rubens to sign it. Rubens saw it wasn't an official product and got extremely annoyed.

This is Formula One - everything is protected by licenses. You can't afford to make replicas of things without permission or a license - it's too dangerous and expensive. Just don't bother. I'm shocked that Ferrari continued with proceedings though.

As a photographer I have to be careful. I can't publish photos that I haven't got permission to do so.

[Ali_G]

Its all the same.

ANy team would sue in this incident.

Just look at mcLaren last year. SOme guy made up a fan website about mcLaren. But he put a picture of the car on the website. Hence Mclaren sued for copyright of picture and won.

Niall

[Mrv]

They got what they deserved. See you only have seen and heard one side of the story. They have made alot of money by doing this. But they say they didn't, and now they want the public to feel sorry for them, because they have to take out a loan to pay for the damages. Baloney. There is proof that they made some good coin on this and that is the reason that Ferrari went after them. Ferrari are not going to chase two fans for a silly car, that they built if it was for non-profit. Companies pay big bucks for sponsorship like Mattel etc.... There is pressure on Ferrari to protect their interests.

[312B3]

Multi Re-entry Vehicle (MRV),

Are you the real warhead, or just a decoy? What is the source for your information that they made a lot of money? A pure hunch? About as informed as the rest of your posts, I dare say. This is not a legal question. In fact, the legal side of the issue is pretty clear cut. And Ferrari made its point pretty quickly. This is a matter of applying your company's resources and using some judgment. And if you do not understand the difference between a mainland Chinese sweatshop producing 10,000 unauthorized copies of a product licensed to Mattel, and two guys spending all of their free time using scrap metal to put together a fairly good looking replica, then I have to say, I really feel sorry for you. Maybe you should take off your rosso-colored glasses every once in a while. By the way, my main point is that Ferrari made the company look petty, which in light of the fact that Germany is one of its biggest markets is a PR disaster, if only one potential customer thus has been dissuaded from buying a 360 Modena. And before you come back accusing me of being one of those Ferrari-haters on this BB, go and do some research.

Cheers.

PS: McLaren-Mercedes and BMW-Williams have not filed any lawsuits, which means that the assertion that any team would have sued is patently untrue.

[Mrv]

Quote

Originally posted by 312B3
Multi Re-entry Vehicle (MRV),

Are you the real warhead, or just a decoy? What is the source for your information that they made a lot of money? A pure hunch? About as informed as the rest of your posts, I dare say. This is not a legal question. In fact, the legal side of the issue is pretty clear cut. And Ferrari made its point pretty quickly. This is a matter of applying your company's resources and using some judgment. And if you do not understand the difference between a mainland Chinese sweatshop producing 10,000 unauthorized copies of a product licensed to Mattel, and two guys spending all of their free time using scrap metal to put together a fairly good looking replica, then I have to say, I really feel sorry for you. Maybe you should take off your rosso-colored glasses every once in a while. By the way, my main point is that Ferrari made the company look petty, which in light of the fact that Germany is one of its biggest markets is a PR disaster, if only one potential customer thus has been dissuaded from buying a 360 Modena. And before you come back accusing me of being one of those Ferrari-haters on this BB, go and do some research.

Cheers.

PS: McLaren-Mercedes and BMW-Williams have not filed any lawsuits, which means that the assertion that any team would have sued is patently untrue.

[Waylander]

Quote

Originally posted by Liam
They build a replica of a Ferrari, but can't afford 8000 euro?

That's exactly what I was thinking

[mclarensmps]

Ah... to what extend won't a fan go...

[KinetiK]

Quote

Originally posted by baddog
its pretty obvious there was a commercial element to their project as no company wastes time sueing anyone over a purely hobby based thing.

Methinks selective reporting

Shaun

Unless it's Fox and you have a website dedicated to one of their trademarks or stars.

[ray b]

SPORTSMEN WOULD NOT CARE or say thanks for the support
BIZ-MEN SUE AND THAT SUCKS
thats a big part of what wrong with F-1 today

[jondoe955]

I have often thought of making a 355B kit car, and actually came to a decision last year. When I looked on the web - nothing. Looking through the magazines was the same. Apperantly, Ferrari discovered I was about to **** with their hallowed name - and crushed all the kit bodies AND their makers, da bastards! Any of you guys want to wax up the body of your Ferrari for a mold?

[Zmeej]

312B3