19 replies to this topic

[The Fazz]

Picking up Brundle's comment during Imola qualifying.

It seems so... the grandstands before the pit lane entry were almost empty, I thought. What has happened to the passionate tifosi? Ferrari & Schumi is winning EVERYTHING in sight, and yet the excitement is no longer there. Why?

+ Is it because of Schumi?
+ is it because Ferrari is no longer, ummm Ferrari?
+ Is it the colour of the car?
+ has Ferrari sold its soul to the devil?
+ do the tifosis prefer Ferrari as the underdog?

[tinman]

IMO the tifosi are still the way they are. In fact I think that there are more of them now coz of MS. Maybe its the weather or something. We'll see in the race how they cheer for MS and RB

[Mrv]

I was discussing the same topic at the tifosi site. What Brundle said is true. The Italian Tifosi have never really embraced Schumacher. It has improved since he has won the titles and brought back the glory to Maranello, however there are alot of Italians that don't care for him that much. The Italian Tifoso cares about Ferrari not the drivers. Schumachers past and some of his antics have left a scar that will never be healed. As far as the attendance goes I am sure the stands will be full tomorrow. These are tough times for alot of people economically. Ticket prices have really sky rocketted in Italy and not many people can afford to attend all three days. James Allen is way off the mark when he was saying that the Tifosi have faded with there support of Ferrari. There has never been enthusiasm as displayed as this current era.

[The Fazz]

Perhaps you are right about the rain, Tinman... but I am not sure they'll cheer for Ruby. Would they be more happy for Ruby winning than Schumi?

[The Fazz]

Alesi and Mansell were hugely popular with the Tifosi. Even comparing Mansell with Prost, I have the feeling that Il Leone was really their hero, despite Prost all round being the better of the two. If the Tifosi are not warmed up to Schumi does this mean that the real tifosi love the emotional, seat of the pants driver?

[Mrv]

Alesi and Gilles were very popular.

[The Fazz]

Of course... Gilles! One of my heroes. But not very successful were they? Neither was Mansell for that matter.

[Witt]

To me it seems as though Ferrari's values today are simply too far away from the values that made the Scuderia so attractive to so many people all those years ago. There are numerous reasons, but the main reason seems that Ferrari today do things the complete opposite way to what Enzo Ferrari would have allowed.

For instance, Micheal Schumacher. It's not his fault he's so good, but his success seems to get as much if not more of the press than Ferrari's success. The old man would never have stood for it. Perhaps the real tifosi (not the MS fans who think they are Ferrari fans, you know who you are) hold the same values as Enzo did. Perhaps that's why as Mrv said, the Italian tifosi don't embrace Schumacher as they did someone like Gilles Villeneuve.

Ross Brawn and Rory Byrne get more recognition for their success than any Ferrari designer who worked under Enzo Ferrari. Perhaps this adds to it?

Enzo would not have let a driver or designer be "bigger" than his cars. Enzo would not have paid a driver an as absurd amount of money as Schumacher gets. I think Schumacher deserves every dollar he gets, but to be honest he probably would have signed for Ferrari in 1996 for half the amount he gets. And lastly, Enzo would not have changed the colour of his car to suit the sponsors. This last bit gets me the most, as it strikes right at the heart of what made Ferrari, well, Ferrari. The colour. Scarlet red emotes passion in us all. Marboro orange, it symbolises Ferrari selling out, selling it's core values, going against the values of the man who built the company.

[Mrv]

It didn't matter about race wins and success Gilles was adored by us Tifosi.

[The Fazz]

This is a deep rooted conflict for Tifosi.

Gilles was a great tifosi favourite. Yet if he were racing today, he would probably be condemned for not building the team up as Schumi did with his version of Ferrari. Yet, Schumi is singly the biggest influence over Ferrari after Il Commendatore.

Alesi was probably what Gilles would have been in recent years. And Alesi was revered... yet when Schumi took over, the new Tifosi (or perhaps Schumi-fans) are determined to belittle Alesi's achievements and lack of all round savvy to do what Schumi has done with Ferrari.

Alesi's spectacular drive in Nurburgring 1995 brought tears to my eye... for all his effort (dries on damp track), he was reeled in and overtaken by the great Schumi a few laps from the end. Alesi's drive that day gets little praise today compared to how Schumi passed him few laps from the end and thus winning the WDC.

[lukywill]

they should have 2 wining cars on the grid for every gp.

today ferrari, for the comon fan, is much more team ms as it was benetton in 94-95.

[HP]

If Ferrari is concerned about passion, then they should get an Italian driver. That will stir up emotions like nothing else. However that would bring a lot of politicing back into the Scuderia, something Jean Todt worked to get rid off.

But the bottomline for me is that it's less the drivers influence, than Ferraris internal structure changes. And there we need to understand that JT has had a lot of influence.

As Ferrari fan, I don't care so much about the driver, as long as Ferrari win. Incidentially I'm fan of MS, that makes it easier for me personally when they win. Worse when they loose. It's fairly common to see what's happening. As Ferrari fans we have been spoilt in the last few years, and we start taking the success granted. As strange as it may sound the passion will be back, when the season isn't as predictable as it is right now. Then we feel more that we are making a difference how our Prancing Horses will do.

[AlesiUK]

i have to agree with most of the points above,

the dissapearance of the scarlet ferrari was one of the saddest changes in f1 over recent years.

But the main reason for the loss of tifosi passion is definately schum,for me he has sucked the passion out of the team,there are a lot less italians in the team now than ther were 10years ago,there is also schum himself.Sure he is the best,but he lack's passion,flair and emotion,the 3 values that the tifosi look for.The 3 fav tifosi drivers of recent times,Gilles,Alesi and mansell all had these.

the banner in my sig summed it up,ferrai were about to replace Alesi,a driver who had won 1 race for them,with schum who was a world champ and yet this is what the tifosi think.

i read a story somewhere about monza 95,on the morning of the race Alesi arrived at the circuit on a moped with Kumiko on the back,he drove amongst the tifosi stoping to sign autographs and chat.Shortly afterwards schum arrived,in a black car with police escort and guards...........

[karlth]

The following story has no point at all:

A friend of mine drove from Geneva to Imola yesterday to watch his first qualifying session. He is a McLaren supporter and I had warned him that the Tifosi could be fairly aggressive so I adviced him not to wave a McLaren flag on the way down to San Marino.

Yesterday he said that he had stopped at a gas station near Milano and met the first Italians he thought were of that special breed called Tifosi. It was a group of Italians wearing F1 caps and Ferrari t-shits. They asked him where he was from and when they found out he was going to Imola they asked him who was his favourite. My friend probably a afraid that he was going to be killed mumbled something about being a general fan and asked the same question of them, who was their favourite. They smiled as one and started waving their flags inside the petrol station: "Forza Montoya! Forza Montoya!"

[Ghostrider]

It is time for Ferrari to bring some Italian drivers into the team, Fisi or Trulli.

[Carsten]

Its been said often over the years (and I assume its therefore true) that MS's salary is paid by Shell (or one of the sponsors anyway) - Ferrari don't pay anything directly for the services of MS.

An Italian driver would definitely draw more attention than Ferrari (the company) which I'm sure no-one wants either.

[AlesiUK]

damon hill just brought up this exact point on commentry,the tifosi dont love Schum like they did Gilles.


there is a banner at tambuerello that says "20 years without the great gilles villeneuve"

[philhitchings]

I think that Brundle missed an important element of the equation. One which I think needs to be included in this debate

The world is still in economic decline post September 11th and all that has followed. Imola as the first European race, is seen as the first of the big corporate Promotion events of the F1 season. Manufacturers, tyre companies, sponsors etc.
To me it is simply that there are less corporate guests around as opposed to genuine (well at least they buy their own ticket!!) fans at the circuit this year.

Some people will criticise RD for the show of oppulence he and the Woking team have shown during a period of economic difficulty (not to mention performance issues). However, It is an understandable strategy to show to the business world that although things are tough we can still be big in the paddock and that business shouldn't turn its back on them. Maclaren or F1 (though I'm sure that Dennis is thinking of his own team primarily).

As a business friend of mine once told me turn up to a meeting suited and booted and in a new car if possible. Whatever state the firm is in it makes you look successful and that is what counts.

As far as the Tifosi themselves are concerned, I personally don't believe that the Tifosi are any less passionate about their cars, as for MS well I don't see how this year would be any different from previous years. He doesn't light fires of passion, but then Prost never really became adopted by them either. Look at their character-If you have an Alesi behind the wheel or a GV or potentially a Montoya, things would look different

BUT.........


The bells still ring when a Ferrari wins a race for it is Ferrari first and last and always.

[AlesiUK]

ferrari are in danger of becoming mclaren.that would be tradgic.

[Thunder]

Why would tifosi go to races. Ferrari made opposition cry, outclassed them. And now with a semi-finished car they write them off again. Ferrari kills formula one.