33 replies to this topic

[dmj]

Two questions:
1. To whom, where and when is issued first driver's license in the world?
2. To whom, where and when is issued first racing license in the world?

[dmj]

So no one knows?

[fines]

I know that a great-great-uncle of mine had the very first driving licence here in Eifel - or was it the second? Or was he just a great-uncle?

[Am I for real?]

[DOHC]

First license in the world? Seems nobody is eager to find the answer. I'll restrict the quesition to Sweden, and give an answer.

The first license was issued to Mr Alfred Hahn of Örebro on 26 May 1902. There were at that time 10-15 cars in the country. How the other drivers got away without a license nobody knows...

[DOHC]

BTW, that's exactly one hundred years ago on Sunday.

[Rob29]

Maybe the question should be which was the first country to require a licence? i don't think you have ever needed one to be in charge of a horse,at least in the UK.

[FEV]

I would be tempted to say that the creation of the Automobile-Club de France in 1894 (or was it 1895 ;) ?) must have led to the first issued racing licences ? Wasn't it Boniver who had such records about racing licences ? Still around Bonniver ?
Besides this, and next to Michael great-great-uncle, I can add my great-great grandfather to the lot, as he was the first to own both a car and a driving licence in the lovely village of Tourrettes-sur-Loup, Alpes-Maritimes, France .

[David McKinney]

And a great-uncle of mine was the first person to be issued a driver's licence in New South Wales ;)

[ensign14]

In Britain, driving licences didn't come in until 1935. I believe if you were driving before then you didn't need to take a driving test, even afterwards, until the normal one at age 70 to prove fitness.

[Barry Lake]

A US source says the first driver's licence in New York City was issued 15 May 1900. It doe not give a name.

David McKinney, are you serious? If so, do you have any further details... or does the smiley indicate this is a joke?

[David McKinney]

Ensign,
I was going to say the same thing, then I thought it was just testing that came in then. I think licences were required before then. You just trotted off to the Post Office and bought one, then turned yourself loose on the unsuspecting motoring public

Barry,
No, not a joke, but I was hoping no-one would call me on it, 'cos I sure as hell can't prove it.
First point is that he was actually my great-great-uncle...
William James McKinney (1873-1935), stock dealer, part owner of Nangus Station in NSW, later bought Silviana in Queensland and had business interests in Sydney. As I child I saw a newspaper clipping with a photo of him and a caption saying he had been the first licensed motorist in NSW.
I think Ken McKinney, 1928 AGP survivor, is his son. I'm still waiting for Ray Bell to put me in touch....

[DOHC]

Seems that people are interested in having had an uncle or great^n grandfather who didn't have a license. Well, my great^n grandfathers surely didn't have a license, nor did my grandfather or my father for that matter. I'm born in 1952 and I'm the first generation to have a legal license. I even used it to drive in NSW. That don't impress me much. Come on, please, find out when the very first license was issued!

[David McKinney]

The original question was posted more than a month ago, Dix.
I think if any of us knew the answer (or cared) we would have provided it by now

[DOHC]

Well, we only got it going today. I made an internet search to find out the local history...

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by David McKinney
....I think Ken McKinney, 1928 AGP survivor, is his son. I'm still waiting for Ray Bell to put me in touch....

He is indeed... sorry David. Actually, I don't remember any discussion on me contacting you over this.

But I will e.mail his daughter's details to you as soon as I can.

Nangus is indeed where they came from... and you will be delighted to know they have stacks of stuff... photos of cars he owned, bills from where he had one modified in England before bringing it here, a veritable treasure trove.

Of course, I will need your e.mail address.... send me mail at raybell@eisa.net.au

[Barry Lake]

The Guinness Book of Car Facts and Feats (some mistakes found, despite quality of contributors) states that driver's licences and car registration in England were required from 1 January 1904.

As stated here, however, that was probably just a "buy it over the counter" job.

[Vitesse2]

Watching Classic on Motors TV tonight on Panhard - they showed a picture of Hippolyte Panhard's driving licence: the date was hand-written, but it read either 1893 or 1895!

[Tim Murray]

I don't think it was just a case of buying your pre-1935 UK licence 'over the counter'. My aunt's licence, issued in 1933, shows that she had to provide a certificate of competence from a driving school in order to get the licence.

[Hieronymus]

Cleaning out my office at work and getting rid of outdated health related publications; I stumbled upon the attached article in an old journal that were published by the South African National Tuberculosis Association.

It deals with one of the motoring pioneers – Leon Serpollet.

What strikes me most in this article is the reproduction of Serpollet’s driving licence that accompanies this article. Issued in 1889!

[A E Anderson]

I am not completely sure, but Indiana first began issuing Driver's Licences in 1915--a great aunt of mine, Louise Young, was issued the first commercial chauffeurs' license issued to a woman in Indiana about that time (she and my Uncle Fred had operated motorized school hacks (school buses) starting about 1905, in rural northwestern Indiana--and later an intercity bus line which was bought up by Greyhound about 1940.

Art

[Mike Lawrence]

William 'Bill' Boddy, MBE, for many years the Editor of Motor Sport, has never passed a driving test since he had a licence prior to 1935.

[roger_valentine]

Well known to all Rowan Atkinson fans, the first person to pass a driving test in Britain was Mr. Beene. (sorry, but its one of those facts which, once heard, is impossible to forget).

He passed on 16th March 16 1935, but I think that driving tests did not become compulsory until June 1935.

According to the DVLA's website, the first UK driving licence was issued in 1903. No mention of who it was issued to, so presumably not to someone with a name similar to a comedy character.

[robert dick]

In 1873, Amédée Bollée Père (the father) got a licence valid to drive his steamer (the "Obéissante") in the département de la Sarthe (Le Mans). In 1875 the licence was "upgraded" so that Bollée could drive his Obéissante to Paris.

Serpollet's licence became famous after a reproduction was published in Pierre Souvestre's book "Histoire de l'Automobile" in 1907.

[Mike Lawrence]

Are there still any countries which issue licences without a test being involved?

I believe that Belgium did not require a test until some time in the 1960s.

[ensign14]

Given Mathias Lauda's performances in GP2 and A1GP, I'm tempted to suggest Austria.

[Peter Morley]

Originally posted by Mike Lawrence
Are there still any countries which issue licences without a test being involved?

I believe that Belgium did not require a test until some time in the 1960s.

Wasn't it the same in Ireland until much more recently?

[Don Speekingleesh]

No, although there was an amnesty in 79 (I think) where people who had sat more than one test got a full licence.
At the moment about a quarter of Irish drivers are on provisional licences - either failed the test or more likely never sat it. Waiting times for the tests are over a year in some places.

[FredF1]

Originally posted by Don Speekingleesh
No, although there was an amnesty in 79 (I think) where people who had sat more than one test got a full licence.
At the moment about a quarter of Irish drivers are on provisional licences - either failed the test or more likely never sat it. Waiting times for the tests are over a year in some places.

They changed the law in the '90's so that you can only have 2 concurrent provisonal licences. You have to have taken the test at least once before applying for a third provisional licence.


AFAIK:

Ireland hadn't 'licence free driving' exactly but one could keep applying for provisional licences without any limit - or, if there were an upper limit, nobody ever enforced it.

[Don Speekingleesh]

Originally posted by FredF1



They changed the law in the '90's so that you can only have 2 concurrent provisonal licences. You have to have taken the test at least once before applying for a third provisional licence..

Yes, and they messed up the law when they were writing it - someone on a 2nd provisional does not need to be supervised by a fully licenced driver, unlike people on their 1st, 3rd, 4th and so on.

[D-Type]

Originally posted by Don Speekingleesh


Yes, and they messed up the law when they were writing it - someone on a 2nd provisional does not need to be supervised by a fully licenced driver, unlike people on their 1st, 3rd, 4th and so on.

How very Irish!

Somebody once told me that the Egyptian test consists of reversing 20 metres in a straight line. Can anybody confirm this?

[WGD706]

Originally posted by D-Type
How very Irish!

Somebody once told me that the Egyptian test consists of reversing 20 metres in a straight line. Can anybody confirm this?

Driving Test: Only requires driver to reverse for a short distance.
Source: Driving Magazine 1990
http://ourworld.comp..._safety/i-l.htm

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by roger_valentine
According to the DVLA's website, the first UK driving licence was issued in 1903. No mention of who it was issued to, so presumably not to someone with a name similar to a comedy character.

Although the first licences were issued in 1903, they were not actually a legal requirement until January 1st 1904. However, it would obviously have been impractical for every driver to queue up outside his local council office on New Year's Day, so they were being issued throughout the last few months of 1903 and were all presumably valid from (and dated?) January 1st 1904.

[Wolf]

I'm surprised noone tried to take a stab at competition licences... It would be interesting to see when those started apearing in various places.

[uechtel]

In Germany the requirement of absolving a driving license was introduced on October, 1st, 1906. According to his biography (Martin Walter: "Im Donner der Motoren") Karl Kappler absolved the test on October, 16th. With this he was not the first, but certainly the youngest (aged 15) - and it is stated, that when he took part in the "Deutsche Subventionsfahrt" (Berlin to Stuttgart) in 1907 this made him the first racing driver with a driving license. Later in the twenties he became one of the most successful drivers in Germany.