52 replies to this topic

[SeanValen]

Link:

http://www.itv-f1.co...ews_story/10260

Well, after talking about the car knowing it was destroyed earlier, shocking news to me as I thought it was destroyed. In all cases I know majority of people want it destroyed, Williams have not decided yet.

Yout thoughts....

[Scudetto]

If it isn't ultimately destroyed (which I think it should be), then perhaps bury the car at Tamburello below a memorial plaque for Ayrton - sort of akin to an "eternal flame."

[fifi]

i read in F1 Racing that Senna's car was in a part of the Williams factory which some people didnt even know existed

[Vrba]

What are the previous examples with such cars? What happened with Rindt's, Peterson's, Pryce's and Villeneuve's cars, to name but few?

Hrvoje

[The Swerve]

I don't think burying it would be a good idea. Some sicko is bound to go digging for souvenirs.

I don't know what happened with Rindt's, Peterson's, Pryce's and Villeneuve's cars but I should imagine they got scrapped pretty fast - although I seem to remember something about Rindt's engine being used again in another car later in the season. Anyone remember this or am I confused? Also those cars were not evidence in a criminal trial and so wouldn't have been kept in a lock up for years.

These days the technology exists to be able to test stress in components which didn't exist back then. Although on reflection I would have thought that the mechanical bits that were involved in the accident might have been destroyed on impact. Still there must be some parts that can be examined by the team and they are much more likely to be able to shed light on what went wrong because they built the car and ought to have an idea of the tolerances.

[se7en_24]

Originally posted by fifi
i read in F1 Racing that Senna's car was in a part of the Williams factory which some people didnt even know existed

Wheres Frans!

[The Swerve]

Originally posted by fifi
i read in F1 Racing that Senna's car was in a part of the Williams factory which some people didnt even know existed

Maybe now but before it was in a Police lockup in Bologna, or so I understand.

[fifi]

Originally posted by The Swerve


Maybe now but before it was in a Police lockup in Bologna, or so I understand.

yeah thats what i meant, it was in this months F1 racing which i got thru the door this morning

[Gary C]

Jochen' Lotus 72 is still around in Italy and in the last few years has been available for anyone to buy. Although, Lord knows why anyone WOULD want to buy it.

[Cociani]

Encase the wreched thing in a large concrete block, then bury it somewhere appropriate: Perhaps at Imola or at the Williams factory, that would swart any suvenier hunters... Or just quietly destroy it somehow. It does the world no good to exist...

Sad to hear Rindts Lotus still survives. I sencerely hope Giles car was destroyed...

[jennerabc]

Hey all,


After reading what most have to say about this topic, I will be most unpoular on my views. But I guess better to say what you feel than run with the flow all the time...


I was never fortunate to watch Ayton Senna de Silva-yes this is his full name- race in a GP. I am frustrated I cannot see him race, as obviously he was very good. Many would say if you want to see a car he raced in, go see another example Williams have of a car he raced. But this is different. This is the car he last raced, the man most like, if not atleast respected. To know that his last thoughts were right there, in that car, doing what he loved. Hmm, finding this hard to explain. I guess like others have said. We have not destroyed the town of Auswitz(excuse spelling), we have not destroyed the Titanic and we have not flattened Pompeii. Why is this? Because maybe we can learn from this, or atleast get as close to feeling what others felt at the time, to be swept up in all the emotion. I think it would be a travesty if any one of the three expamples I mention were taken away from me. This is life, and this is what happenes in life.

I was not around or a fan of him when racing, so maybe my feeling of him not being around is far less than others, maybe I would feel different if say Montoya or Villeneuve were gone now, being my current fav drivers. I am sorry if I dont agre with the masses, or if I upset anyone with my views or ideas on this. Just giving my side, hope it may make alittle sense...


Jenner

[maverick]

Jenner
I agree with you
Since I too have not seen senna race, I would think that keeping the car
for posterity would make sense
But then again being an MS fan, if something were to happen to him, I'm not
too sure I would like to see that car being preserved like it did something
great.....so I guess I'm a little confused

[pRy]

I think you need to consider what the car itself looks like too. I mean this isn't just a normal car that a driver died in, the car actually looks shocking. The entire nose has gone, that was destroyed in the crash, so it goes up to the start of the cockpit tub. The entire right side of the sidepod has gone, right up to again the tub. The tub itself has marks on the right hand side of the cockpit that the front right tyre made as it hit Sennas head. The cockpit itself has a big crack too. If you look at the car, you can obviously see that this thing hit the wall and anything that got in the walls way was totally wiped off the car.

So in a way the car tells the story very graphicly. Usually with F1 wrecks, when a car rolls or something, it's just a mangled mess and you can't look at the wreck and say what happened, with Sennas car you can. So it is extra haunting in that respect.

Here is a picture of the car as it stood in the evidence area. Car

Prehaps Williams could cut away the roll hoop that has "Senna" and his flag, and simply keep that as some form of rememberance from the car. That seems to be te only piece of car that isn't in some way damaged.

[John Galt]

I concur with the previous two posts, by Jenner & Maverick.

Anyone who's ever been to the Arizona Memorial in Pearl Harbor understands what Jenner is getting at. Having the car on display someplace would give generations to come a chance to 'connect' with Senna.

[Williams]

Whether to preserve the car is a decision best left between Williams and Senna's family. The big problem they would have with keeping it, I think, is the prospect of bits and pieces going missing and turning up for sale. Even if that did not truly happen, there would probably be constant rumours of this chassis part or that aero piece turning up for sale, a constant reminder of Senna's death for people who would rather remember his life.

I wouldn't blame them in the least little bit for wanting to destroy and just forget about the car altogether; after all it is merely an inanimate object, and a grisly one at that. Don't forget, we do have quite a few other really beautiful cars to remember Senna by, if we want to feel close to him in that way.

[Conrad Turner]

It is a difficult situation, what ever you do you have the risk of souvenir hunters getting their grubby hands on it. Even encased in concrete you still have to consider these people.

I have to say that Idon't think any solution is 100% hunter proof.

[Ali_G]

Senna should be remembered for his racing and not his tragic death.

If you want something to remember Senna by how aobut his 86 Lotus. SOme of his best performances came in that car.

I hope they completely incinerate that car, bury the ashes at the tamburello, simplest way about it.

Niall

[Williams]

Originally posted by Ali_G
Senna should be remembered for his racing and not his tragic death.

If you want something to remember Senna by how aobut his 86 Lotus. SOme of his best performances came in that car.

I hope they completely incinerate that car, bury the ashes at the tamburello, simplest way about it.

Niall

Not sure they should even do that. Someone will think about digging up the ashes just have a jar full of Senna's car. If there's anything left at all it should be disposed of or recycled secretly.

[Conrad Turner]

Originally posted by Ali_G


I hope they completely incinerate that car, bury the ashes at the tamburello, simplest way about it.

Niall

I'd agree that he should be remembered for his racing.

Ashes buried at Tamurello - couple of years time they'll be selling jars of Tamburello earth "This earth contains the ashes of Senna Williams" as I said there is no real solution to the souvenir hunters, someone somewhere will want to buy it!

[Mat]

Originally posted by jennerabc
We have not destroyed the town of Auswitz(excuse spelling), we have not destroyed the Titanic and we have not flattened Pompeii. Why is this? Because maybe we can learn from this, or atleast get as close to feeling what others felt at the time....

I'm sorry, but these are rediculous examples. Auswitz is a town, you cant just go hiding it. The Titanic is at the bottom of the Atlantic, not much can be done there. Pompeii is full of history and incredible architecture, it was once the centre of life, it is a link to the past.

Senna's Williams is not a link to the past- his '84 Toleman is.

I would imagine the Williams would now own the car, and if the Senna family feel strongly about it being destroyed, I am sure they will have no hesitation in completing the task. Putting it in a Museum is really not going to 'enlighten' people on the situation. I can see it now, the car will be in a glass case and the masses would file past. There would be a flat screen television next to it showing a brief 2 minute synopsis of his life, then they would show the accident. And everyone would 'ooooh' and 'ahhhh'.

No thanks.

Mat

[Schummy]

What happened with Clark's car, Rindt's car, Villeneuve's car, etc?

I think basically nothing. Today we have a sense of fetish about things that borders ridiculous. I f you consider all those memoralia about Elvis, Marilyn, even live people like Madonna, Elton John, etc
: the handkerchief that was used by Madonna to blow her nose in Wimbledon Concert, the left shoe of Elvis in his last concert, etc. It is so childish I can barely believe people is going to pay such a money for that.

There is something morbid about those stuff. Why people has the desire to watch and touch all that. I reminds me about road accidents: people gathers to look at it. Why? I don't know but I find the scene tasteless. Even teenagers stop in a nasty urban run over to apparently see a smaches head or a lifeless gore body

Why cannot we remember Senna using videos, reading about him, looking at his cars, etc? What we remember about Clark? Gory details about his accident? And Cevert ?

In a different world I would say they do with the car what thay want. In this morbid culture I would prefer they totally destroy the car and let's think about Senna in a different way, not for his Imola- 94 day.

[BARnone]

Bell quietly destroyed that gruesome helmet at the request of the family. I think the same thing should happen to the car - no trace left.

BARnone.

[Paste]

It's a Williams car, so Frank and Patrick should be left to make the decision.

I was never a fan of Senna's driving or his tactics, but I can appreciate what he meant to so many people.

[jordan24]

As i was reading the thread i thought that the car should be kept for people to view (in a nontacky memorail to sennas life), but after seeing the photo of the car i think it should be destroyed, looking at that must kill his family. Personally I think the choice should be made by his family and not williams.

[The Rock]

I dont think it really matters what happens with the car now,its the memories that will last for ever and not shattered pieces of metal.

[MONTOYASPEED]

Originally posted by Gary C
Jochen' Lotus 72 is still around in Italy and in the last few years has been available for anyone to buy. Although, Lord knows why anyone WOULD want to buy it.

Jochen Rindt died in 1970.

[Dudley]

And your point is MontoyaSpeed.?




--

I must be missing something, I can't thingk of a single reason to destroy it.

[Ali_G]

Originally posted by MONTOYASPEED


Jochen Rindt died in 1970.

And MS raced in the Ferrari 399 yet was born in the 1960's, thats about 1500 year before he was born. Does that make sense ?

What is you point ?

Niall

[Schummy]

And Irvine drove Jaguar R1, does it Irvine is Jesus Christ?

[MONTOYASPEED]

Originally posted by Ali_G
And MS raced in the Ferrari 399 yet was born in the 1960's, thats about 1500 year before he was born. Does that make sense ?

What is you point ?

Niall

Is it too hard to get? If they are selling the Lotus '72 then it isn't Rindt's car.

[Dmitriy_Guller]

Yes, it is too hard to get, considering that Lotus 72 debuted in 1970.

[MONTOYASPEED]

Originally posted by Dmitriy_Guller
Yes, it is too hard to get, considering that Lotus 72 debuted in 1970.

You got me in that one.

[Flying Panda]

Originally posted by MONTOYASPEED
Is it too hard to get? If they are selling the Lotus '72 then it isn't Rindt's car.

Why not?

Jochen Rindt died at the 1970 Italian Gran Prix at Monza behind the wheel of a Lotus 72C, and Lotus pulled all of their cars out of the GP because of the crash.

What car do you think he died in??

[prettyface]

What if the family wants the car?

[Hawaiian Chicken]

Originally posted by Williams
Whether to preserve the car is a decision best left between Williams and Senna's family. The big problem they would have with keeping it, I think, is the prospect of bits and pieces going missing and turning up for sale. Even if that did not truly happen, there would probably be constant rumours of this chassis part or that aero piece turning up for sale, a constant reminder of Senna's death for people who would rather remember his life.

I wouldn't blame them in the least little bit for wanting to destroy and just forget about the car altogether; after all it is merely an inanimate object, and a grisly one at that. Don't forget, we do have quite a few other really beautiful cars to remember Senna by, if we want to feel close to him in that way.

I second that they should be destroyed, even if it is a last racing car of ayrton .

We wouldn't want to remember Ayrton with that Williams, it is not a pleasant experience. The cars that should be kept are his first championship car, his first race and so on , but not the Williams, too unpleasant.


And besides, displaying a such a wrecked car is an ugly sight in my opinion. This is not how we want to remember Ayrton,........My disturbed thought is that, displaying that car is almost as ugly as displaying Ayrton's wrecked helmet from Imola.

I can't continue anymore, too ugly and sad to describe in details

[Dolph]

Originally posted by jennerabc
Ayton Senna de Silva-yes this is his full name

No it isn't

[Flying Panda]

Originally posted by Dolph
No it isn't

No, it's Ayrton Senna da Silva

[Dolph]

Originally posted by Flying Panda


No, it's Ayrton Senna da Silva

I'm glad that at least somebody knows

[jennerabc]

Excuse my spelling, you are correct.


I was just trying to enlighten some on his birth name as opposed to his name most would know him by.

Jenner

[Buford]

In the 50s and 60s cars were rebuilt and raced again after fatal accidents. Many American race cars killed more than one driver. I recall at least one that killed three different drivers. There were probably more than one. These driver's deaths were no less tragic than Senna. But the times were different then. Nearly half the drivers died racing eventually. Nobody thought it was wrong to wash out the blood, straighten the tubes, and put another madman in it for the next weekend.

[tifoso]

Originally posted by Buford
In the 50s and 60s cars were rebuilt and raced again after fatal accidents. Many American race cars killed more than one driver. I recall at least one that killed three different drivers. There were probably more than one. These driver's deaths were no less tragic than Senna. But the times were different then. Nearly half the drivers died racing eventually. Nobody thought it was wrong to wash out the blood, straighten the tubes, and put another madman in it for the next weekend.

Burford, that's very true. As evidenced by my avatar. My dad was only able to afford that car because of a driver fatality. When he bought it, he found the stencils for the car numbers laying on the driver's seat. He changed the number to 53, inverting the numbers from the number raced when the driver died. He went on to win several track and series championships in the late 40s and early 50s. Times have certainly changed.

[Breadmaster]

destroy it and get on with life.....

[tania_walesuk]

Im not totally sure what should be done with it?...Part of me thinks it should due to the fact its a bad memory...BUT..its also part of history !and a monument to one of the greatest drivers ever in F1....and Williams cant face the fact that it could have been there fault in some way!..Mechanically !

[BARnone]

Originally posted by tania_walesuk
Im not totally sure what should be done with it?...Part of me thinks it should due to the fact its a bad memory...BUT..its also part of history !and a monument to one of the greatest drivers ever in F1....and Williams cant face the fact that it could have been there fault in some way!..Mechanically !

I think that you are right in that Williams would like to close that chapter of it's racing history - whether they were at fault or not. However, if the car isn't destroyed some idiot will be trying to make a buck off of pilfered pieces of it on e-bay. That is disrespectful.

BARnone.

[Julius]

Why not cut up the car and sell the pieces to fans and the like. The proceeds from the sale could then be donated to the Senna Childrens Foundation.

Everybody wins.

[AndreasF1]

Jenner wrote: I was just trying to enlighten some on his birth name as opposed to his name most would know him by

Actually his birth name was Ayrton da Silva, only later on in life before he entered F1 did he change to his mothers maiden name.

[Baby Satan]

Originally posted by Julius
Why not cut up the car and sell the pieces to fans and the like. The proceeds from the sale could then be donated to the Senna Childrens Foundation.

Everybody wins.

You're a sick puppy!!!

Why would Williams want to keep the car? Why would anyone want Williams to keep the car? It is awful, it is like celebrating his death, some macabre facination with his gory death. It is not something to celebrate. IT IS HIS COFFIN!
How would you like it if someone kept the car you died in as memorabillia, more to the point, how would your wife and children feel if the general public could buy pieces of metal that once had your blood on them.

:

[Julius]

Originally posted by Baby Satan


You're a sick puppy!!!

Why would Williams want to keep the car? Why would anyone want Williams to keep the car? It is awful, it is like celebrating his death, some macabre facination with his gory death. It is not something to celebrate. IT IS HIS COFFIN!
How would you like it if someone kept the car you died in as memorabillia, more to the point, how would your wife and children feel if the general public could buy pieces of metal that once had your blood on them.

:

Isn't it about time that all the "Senna Worship" around here stops? Jeezus, from what I've read around here I'm not surprised that someone hasn't suggested that we petition the Roman Catholic church to have Senna cannonized and his remains become relics to rest forever in St. Peters - soon to be renamed St. Sennas.

Gimmie a break. I'm sorry he died, but the world didn't stop and racing goes on. All that can be done now is to try to salvage the best out of a sad situation. Making Senna a martyr doesn't help.

[BARnone]

Julius:

Baby Satan's reply doesn't sound to me like worship. It sounds very sensible. Cutting the car up and selling pieces to the highest bidder is capitalizing on the "Senna Worship" or "whoreship" take your pick.

BARnone.

[Julius]

Originally posted by BARnone
Julius:

Baby Satan's reply doesn't sound to me like worship. It sounds very sensible. Cutting the car up and selling pieces to the highest bidder is capitalizing on the "Senna Worship" or "whoreship" take your pick.

BARnone.

What..just like the Senna name is "whored" to promote the Children's Foundation established in his name? Do you think that foundation would attract near the attention and funding if were established in the name of some relatively unknown race driver?