29 replies to this topic

[SennasCat]

Last year Fernando Alonso was wowing them with great performance with the rather average Minardi. He was the next new thing and greatness awaited.
This year - Mark Webber has done a comparable job to Alonso - after Webber was relieved of the test driving duties at Renetton. My question is - who got the better deal - and who is getting the column inches at the moment? I wonder if Alonso is facing a dead-end career wise as Flavour Flav's puppet - not to be seen in F1 racing again.

[Flying Panda]

Originally posted by Steve Williams
My question is - who got the better deal

Looking at the short term -
Webber. He's racing in F1, Alonso is not.

Looking at the long term -
Undecided. Anything can happen in Formula One, and it usually does.

[dynamite7]

Assuming Heidfeld leaves, that would open a spot at Sauber for Flavio to place Alonso, maybe.

It would be very unfortunate if he became another test driver for life.

[gerry nassar]

Id say he is a good bet to be racing next year. If its not Renault, it will be Sauber, BAR or Jordan. Wait and see!

[LMG]

I hope both Alonso and Webber are racing next year! Where is another question. Maybe Benetton and Minardi ;)

[role]

Fernando Alonso showed during the entire 2001 season that he deserved a better seat. Team Renault wanted him for 2003 and I assume he will be racing on 2003 for Renault. He had offers from Sauber and Jordan for 2002 but both teams wanted him at least two years, something Renault was not ready to give (this is what Alonso has hinted on several interviews).
I would have prefered him racing this year but I prefer him testing that driving one more year for a struggling Minardi that got a very lucky break at Australia.
Webber is doing great and I think we have a very good driver also in there, now, Alonso is 20 years old, how old is Webber?

[HSJ]

FA to race next year. I hope. Damn you Flavio if you ruin his career!

[Morcheeba]

Alonso has too much skill not to be racing. So I'd expect him to be racing next year. Flavio has said that he is more then willing to loan him out again to another team if there is no room for him at Renault in 2003.

[Locai]

Originally posted by role
I would have prefered him racing this year but I prefer him testing that driving one more year for a struggling Minardi that got a very lucky break at Australia.
Webber is doing great and I think we have a very good driver also in there, now, Alonso is 20 years old, how old is Webber?

I would disagree with a couple of things here.

1) Testing doesn't get you on the grid, on TV, in front of millions of people, and in front of the other team managers or the guys that make personnel decisions.

2) I don't necessarily think that Minardi "got a very lucky break". Granted, Ralf and Rubens did manage to wipeout half the field at the start, but first corner pileups are a way of life in F1. Staying out of them is often the most important move a driver can make all day. Plus, Webber held off a hard-charging Salo who was driving a stronger car. Who knows if Alonso would have been able to do the same thing in his debut race?

Race car drivers want to race. I can't imagine that Alonso is very happy to be only testing this year. I have to think that he would much rather be racing, even if it was with Minardi.

[Brian O Flaherty]

I remember reading an interview with Alonso that stated he had a condition in his contract guaranteeing him a drive @ Renault for next season. It's just a matter of sorting out which of the current drivers will be making way. I'd say Jenson will move to either Williams or Jaguar (probably Jag to replace the retiring EI).

You will see Alonso in F1 soon enough and if Renault continue their current progression you might see him winning races soon enough

[Ghostrider]

Alonso will replace Button and partner up with Trulli.

[Ricardo F1]

Flavio Briatore has come out and said that he will be discussing Jensons future with the Renault team at Silverstone with a view to keeping him beyond the current deal with Williams. This would therefore require one of the Williams drivers to move on for that deal not to go through, and I don't see Ralf or JPM being replaced the way they are driving.

So really it's either Trulli out at Renault (unlikely considering Flavio's his manager) or no Alonso there. I hope Fernando gets a drive - maybe they could sub him out to Sauber to replace Heidfeld when Nick moves to McLaren?

[Todd]

Williams and Renault manage to pull extremely promising drivers from the grid for their testing program. Meanwhile, Ferrari has Luciano Burti. Why is that?

[Ricardo F1]

Maybe they know Burti is better than you or I believe? I mean they've had Luca Badoer for goodness knows how long yet we certainly wouldn't rate him as a top driver.

[Dudley]

although unlike both webber and alonso, he did once retire from a solid 4th in a Minardi, ahead of a healthy Ferrari and McLaren.

[MinardiRules]

Thanks for bringing that up! I hope he gets a Renault next year, I think he's got tremendous talent. But I think realistically the only option is if Heidfeld moved out of Sauber and into McLaren - I could well imagine this being Coulthard's last season there.

We'll see - it certainly would be sad to see his talent wasted.

[unrepentant lurker]

Only reason Burti is at Ferrari is to turn new B-stones into old B-stones.

How much track time do these test drivers actually get? I'm sure that the test drivers for the big three get just as much or even more than the race drivers. But the smaller teams? How much did Schecter get before his sacking? Arrows and Minardi don't test much at all, and I think Minardi has got a whole slew of test drivers.

[gerry nassar]

We need to see Alonso and Heidfeld in top teams.


Trulli should be out of Renault - he is so uninspiring. I would love to see JV and JB in Renault next year while FA takes the weaker drivers spot in 04!!

[Cociani]

I really hope Alonso gets a chance to race again. He really impressed me last year. I suspect that Williams may excercise their option on Button next year, if so Alsonso will get a ride in the refined Renault. There is a tremendous amout of talent in F1 nowadays, the only problem is there arn't enough teams on the grid.

[maclaren]

I guess BAR hires Alonso. Villeneuve is becoming too expensive, BAR needs to develop car too, so talented but cheap driver is needed.

[role]

Originally posted by Locai


I would disagree with a couple of things here.

1) Testing doesn't get you on the grid, on TV, in front of millions of people, and in front of the other team managers or the guys that make personnel decisions.

2) I don't necessarily think that Minardi "got a very lucky break". Granted, Ralf and Rubens did manage to wipeout half the field at the start, but first corner pileups are a way of life in F1. Staying out of them is often the most important move a driver can make all day. Plus, Webber held off a hard-charging Salo who was driving a stronger car. Who knows if Alonso would have been able to do the same thing in his debut race?

Race car drivers want to race. I can't imagine that Alonso is very happy to be only testing this year. I have to think that he would much rather be racing, even if it was with Minardi.

Well, that's what this bb is all about, if we would all think alike it wouldn't be as fun. In reference to your comments:

1) Flavio, Fernando and all of us would prefer to see Alonso driving this year than just testing. But they had very clear that if he was to drive he would have to drive for a team that would allow Alonso to put more miles on testing. Minardi hardly tests and Alonso, at 20, had limited experience in technical matters and set-ups, on how to improve a car and how to make it go faster. Something Webber has as he tested last year for Benetton. Renault did not want his tester racing for another team so the only chance of combining both was to drive for a team that heavily tests. Of the options only Jordan fitted the bill and that was Alonso's main wish, even in front of Sauber that does not tests as much.
Jordan, however, wanted a driver for at least two years something Renault was not ready to give. Flavio tried to cut Button and he would have done it if not for Button's contract.

2) Don't get me wrong, Webber raced great on Melbourne and he deserved the position. However, he also raced great at Imola and he finished 11th. I am a Minardi fan also and love them to do well, but to be honest that team needs, nowadays, a tremendous amount of luck in order to collect, and notice I say collect not achieve, a place on the points. The drivers, besides Yoong, who finished behind Webber spent 3 minutes 44" (Salo) and 4 minutes 57" (De la Rosa) against the 54 secs spent by Webber. Therefore Webber did not outrace any of these two.

On your last sentence you say that Alonso would be rather racing. I agree with you, but if he is not racing with Minardi is because his manager declined him that posibility as it was clear that Minardi was very interested in keeping Alonso for the 2002 season.

[MinardiRules]

I have quite often thought that the quality of the management rather than that of the driver determines where a driver ends up. Take Kimi and Jenson - both have the same management team (I believe, please feel free to flame away if I'm wrong) which managed to get them into top teams very quickly - altought there were other drivers around who were more experienced and arguably just as talented.

Don't get me wrong - no driver will remain in a top team or even in F1 very long if he's a dud - but management (and finances) are at least as important as raw speed these days.

I just hope Alonso's management play their cards right. :

[RaggedEdge]

Alonso does not seem to get much testing miles at Renault, and when he does, he has not been blowing Button or Trulli away.

I guess the best bet for Alonso to profile as a valuable asset in F1 would be to try to test as much as possible, set good times, and get associated with the glory of Renault's revival. That way, he could well get a nice seat, a bit like Oliver Panis. I doubt Alonso is the next big thing, though.

[jomaizta]

Up to now, he has been driving last year car because there is only one test chassis available, and that is for race drivers. He says in F1-live.com that next week there should be an additional test car, and he will start testing much more.

[jomaizta]

Oh, and regarding his status as test driver, Alonso was promised that he would develop (rather than test) the Renault car for 2003. In fact, while in F3000, he was getting very poor results until he was allowed to have a word on setting the car. The result was the astounding victory in Spa that attracted inmediate attention from all the F1 paddock.

His choice of test driver in Renault over racing driver in other team may prove to be an error in the future or even it may be betrayed by Briatore, but he considered it the best option for him back in last December.

I hope and expect he will be driving Renault next year.

[TT6]

Originally posted by Steve Williams
Last year Fernando Alonso was wowing them with great performance with the rather average Minardi. He was the next new thing and greatness awaited.

To shine compared to your team mate in Team Minardi is not a guarantee of anything. There seems to be allkinds of Tarsos and Yoongs there.

Alonso may be good or exellent or average, but we don't really know it if he doesn't have a seat where he may be compared to a real driver.

[tifoso]

There's a Q&A with Alonso on Yahoo today.

[berge]

Probably Trulli and Alonso at Renault next year.

BTW, this kind of sums up what Alonso thinks of Button I suppose,

"Question: Who do you think is going to win the Spanish Grand Prix?
Fernando Alonso-- Trulli! I'd love that to happen for the team, but if it's not Jarno, I think the obvious answer is Michael Schumacher. He and Ferrari just look so strong at the moment."

[role]

Originally posted by TT6


To shine compared to your team mate in Team Minardi is not a guarantee of anything. There seems to be allkinds of Tarsos and Yoongs there.

Alonso may be good or exellent or average, but we don't really know it if he doesn't have a seat where he may be compared to a real driver.

Agreed that Marques and Yoong are not the best team-mates to be compared with. But I think other people have other methods of knowing how good a driver is. Alonso not only outqualified his team-mates in all races but one, but he outqualified several times the Benettons (especially Button), Mazza's Prost, Bernoldi's Arrows and even Villeneuve on the USGP. On most of the races he was able to keep on the pace of some bigger teams and he showed consistant race pace during the season.

This kid, at 19 and with very limited experience on F1, took a car that was built on six weeks and got a P19 on the first grid at Melbourne in front of more experienced drivers as Mazza, Burti or Marques.

[Locai]

One other thing that hasn't been mentioned:

Is it just me, or does it seem like half the grid is under contract to Williams, Briatore, and/or Renault? I know that the list includes Montoya, Ralf, Trulli, Button, Alonso, and Webber. I believe that there may be more. It also seems that they've all been promised racing seats for next year. Where exactly are they all going to go? My guess is that this is going to be "Musical Chairs" and somebody is going to be left without a seat.