23 replies to this topic

[bschenker]

Together with photos from a false Brabham BT24 – 3, I get this photo’s from this Lotus.

Advertisement on Dupont Registry on September 1996.

1962 LOTUS 24 F1 I.D. #947. Original Coventry Climax V8, Colotti 5 speed. Ex. Jack Brabham

[Doug Nye]

Ex-Jack Brabham??? Very nice considering how thoroughly burned out his car was in the Surbiton garage after mechanic Timmy Wall shorted out the battery against the adjacent aluminium fuel tank, and melted a spark hole clean through the aluminium. Fortunately for Timmy the tank was almost full. If it had been near empty, with a mass of vapour in most of the tank volume, it could have blown his head off. As it was a stream of burning fuel sprayed out of the hole. He and Jack - who was working in the neighbouring office at the time - emptied every extinguisher in the place but every time they knocked back the growing fire more fuel sprayed out and ignited and it just grew worse and worse. Ultimately they were forced from the workshop by the smoke, and when the fire brigade arrived Jack tried in vain to direct the fire brigade's hoses onto the car. They set about saving the building first. When they finally got the fire out the car was virtually gone. It had not been insured. It was a dead loss.

DCN

[Ray Bell]

Rebuilt from a salvaged bleed nipple?

Unlikely, I would think Jack would have used anything he could have salvaged...

[Carlos Jalife]

Guys, a question, since this is a Lotus 24 thread. Ricardo died in the chassis # 941, any ideas where it is now, if it survived? I know Rob has the steering wheel all crumpled, but I lost track of the car which was last raced officially by Peter Revson but it probably did run at US events later in the 60s. The Lotus club people in GB were not much help, they were more concerned with street cars.
And yes, i haven't looked anywhere deeply, this just came up since I remembered some report about Ricardo's FJr. Cooper being restored (it was unrestorable, last time I saw in 2001 or late 2000 in Valle de Bravo, it was still all chopped up, missing pieces, the frame was not original mostly, it had been lenghtened to allow for a larger engine and the skin was all but gone, and the parts of the suspension and other stuff was used in several bitza specials since the sixties; yet the tachometer needle was fine so they probably rebuilt around it).
Just wondering if the 941 is somewhere safe.
And of course Porsche 917 chassis 015 which Pedro used at daytona 1970, was "found" and because some complex wiring (only JWAE's car used that wiring supposedly) it was converted from a 917 PA Interseries back to a 917K and of course the value increased about 20 times. And of course it is a fake.
Happens all the time.

[David McKinney]

Wasn't it a Lotus 21 (c/no 936) that was burned out in the Brabham workshop fire? Jack's 24 (947) went to South Africa - and was destroyed in a garage fire.
A 21 numbered 936 and a 24 numbered 947 both exist today....

[ry6]

Re the burned out Lotus 24.

Syd van der Vyver, the South African Champion of 1960 and 1961 acquired a Lotus 24 Climax V8 in late 1962 and ran it in the Rand and Natal Grands Prix. He went reasonably well in the Rand race until retiring with clutch trouble, but rolled the car and damaged it badly in a crash during the final of the Natal GP. He had placed 3rd in his "heat" behind Ritchie Ginther and Bruce Johnstone (BRM's).

Syd rebuilt the car and won a local National championship race in it, I think the Royal Show Trophy, at Roy Hesketh circuit, in 1963. The car was soon after destroyed in a garage fire.
Syd was a brilliant mechanic/engineer, who helped sort Stirling Moss's cars handling at Pipbrook for a spell, but he could never get the best out of that "24".

It passed on to Dave Hume would entered it for the odd event up to 1966. Then it disappeared from the scene.

When Syd originally acquired the car it was reputed to be an ex-Brabham Lotus. Whether it was "947" or not nobody will probably ever know.

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by ry6
The car was soon after destroyed in a garage fire......It passed on to Dave Hume would entered it for the odd event up to 1966. Then it disappeared from the scene.

So it wasn't destroyed in the garage fire?

[Doug Nye]

Nope - it wasn't. I have indulged yet again in a knee-jerk mental short-circuit for which I apologise. It wasn't the Lotus 24 at all - it was the 21. I posted my fire story immediately after returning from a natter with Jack (sorry, the pun was unintentional) and seeing Beat's message.

We had just been discussing the garage fire in detail that very afternoon, and I had the burned-out 24 in my mind's eye, the short-circuit being that Jack's 24 was burned out in the van der Vyver fire, not in this Surbiton fire which claimed his stop-gap Lotus 21. Bugger! Thanks Dave.

I must, however, relieve myself of another JB fire story which you might appreciate... 'Flight' magazine wanted to produce a feature story on F1 racers beginning to take to the air, circa 1962. They arranged an air-to-air photo shoot at Fairoaks Aerodrome, just outside Woking, Surrey, home of McLaren today. The participants were to be Jack in his Cessna 310 twin, Colin Chapman in his Piper Aztec, Innes Ireland in his Beech Bonanza and John Cooper in his Piper TriPacer (I think) single.

John was last to go up to format on 'Flight's camera 'plane. He was a nervous pilot and liked to have company. On this occasion Colin Chapman - having done his bit - crammed into the back of the cabin, and a career 707 commercial pilot friend of JNC's took the right-hand front seat. Jack was still airborne, stooging around to watch. He saw JNC formate (loosely) on the camera plane, then break off and go round the circuit to land. It was a horrible, gusty, bumpy day, and the little PIper was all over the sky during final approach.

Evidently, just around the commit height, John suddenly panicked, bawled at his 707 pro pilot friend "Here, you take it!" and let go of the controls. His pal, taken by surprise, made a wild grab but it was too late. The Piper hit hard, bounced and nosed over, bending the prop and ending-up standing near vertically, tail in the air, wings crumpled.

As spectators rushed towards the wrecked 'plane, JNC, 707 pilot and ACBC all decanted onto the grass, and Jack - who had seen the whole thing from the air - landed and taxied across to the scene, being the first to reach them. He found a terrific row raging between Chapman and Cooper, which speaks volumes about each of them as characters...

Seeing fuel dribbling from a split tank seam, Colin's reflex action was instant:

"Quick John", he bawled, "SET FIRE TO IT!!!!" - "Claim the insurance!!!".

John obediently rummaged in his pockets, producing a lighter. Then he had typical second thoughts:

"No, no, I can't do that, we'd never get away with it...".

Colin:

"Go on, quick, you won't get a second chance! Quick before anybody else gets here!"

John, encouraged:

"Right, OK Colin, stand back everyone..."

He reached out with the lighter, towards probably 40 gallons of AvGas, then (wisely) had an awful but realistic second thought:

"NO! Hang on - I bet The Old Man hasn't paid the premium..."

And do you know...he was right.

DCN

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Doug Nye
.....this Surbiton fire which claimed his stop-gap Lotus 21.....

...interesting, considering the stop-gap nature of the car and how obsolete it already was... and compare this...

"Quick John", he bawled, "SET FIRE TO IT!!!!" - "Claim the insurance!!!".

hmmm... how are we for statutes of limitation?

[Doug Nye]

Ray - ten years? Don't fail to notice the fact that the 21 was uninsured, owner too mean - or too brave - to pay premium. Either syndrome was in the real racers' genes.

DCN

[Gary C]

DCN, I LOVED the Cooper/Chapman story -superb stuff!! I can imagine Chunky saying all of it!!

[ry6]

Re - the van der Vyver Lotus 24.

It was burned out in a garage fire but the "remains" were rebuilt and then Dave Hume eventually acquired the car.

As a matter of interest we were told by Syd that this was the ex-Brabham car which Jack had used to come 6th in the 1962 Belgain GP. (I note that Jack also came 5th in the British GP with it?)

Apparently Jack had bought this 24 to use while he was working on the first of his Brabhams.

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by Doug Nye


I must, however, relieve myself of another JB fire story which you might appreciate... 'Flight' magazine wanted to produce a feature story on F1 racers beginning to take to the air, circa 1962. They arranged an air-to-air photo shoot at Fairoaks Aerodrome, just outside Woking, Surrey, home of McLaren today. The participants were to be Jack in his Cessna 310 twin, Colin Chapman in his Piper Aztec, Innes Ireland in his Beech Bonanza and John Cooper in his Piper TriPacer (I think) single.

John was last to go up to format on 'Flight's camera 'plane. He was a nervous pilot and liked to have company. On this occasion Colin Chapman - having done his bit - crammed into the back of the cabin, and a career 707 commercial pilot friend of JNC's took the right-hand front seat. Jack was still airborne, stooging around to watch. He saw JNC formate (loosely) on the camera plane, then break off and go round the circuit to land. It was a horrible, gusty, bumpy day, and the little PIper was all over the sky during final approach.

Evidently, just around the commit height, John suddenly panicked, bawled at his 707 pro pilot friend "Here, you take it!" and let go of the controls. His pal, taken by surprise, made a wild grab but it was too late. The Piper hit hard, bounced and nosed over, bending the prop and ending-up standing near vertically, tail in the air, wings crumpled.

As spectators rushed towards the wrecked 'plane, JNC, 707 pilot and ACBC all decanted onto the grass, and Jack - who had seen the whole thing from the air - landed and taxied across to the scene, being the first to reach them. He found a terrific row raging between Chapman and Cooper, which speaks volumes about each of them as characters...

Seeing fuel dribbling from a split tank seam, Colin's reflex action was instant:

"Quick John", he bawled, "SET FIRE TO IT!!!!" - "Claim the insurance!!!".

John obediently rummaged in his pockets, producing a lighter. Then he had typical second thoughts:

"No, no, I can't do that, we'd never get away with it...".

Colin:

"Go on, quick, you won't get a second chance! Quick before anybody else gets here!"

John, encouraged:

"Right, OK Colin, stand back everyone..."

He reached out with the lighter, towards probably 40 gallons of AvGas, then (wisely) had an awful but realistic second thought:

"NO! Hang on - I bet The Old Man hasn't paid the premium..."

And do you know...he was right.

DCN

I was re-reading Stuart Turner's "Twice Lucky" in the bath this evening and a very similar story came to mind. Background - Turner's committed Ford to building a whole pile of RS200s, then Group B gets cancelled and the cars are basically obsolete before they've even turned a wheel, so they're in storage at at Reliant's factory at Shenstone...

While we had the Shenstone factory full of RS200s, in various stages of completion with many now facing an uncertain future, Reliant sold the adjacent building, which shared a common wall. Mike Moreton called me one day to say that fire had broken out on the other side of the wall and that although there was no thread to the staff, he had feared for our own stocks:

"I wasn't quite sure whether to have the RS200s pushed away from the wall to save them, or to have them pushed the other way so that we could claim the insurance money. I think I may have made a mistake..."

At which point I guessed, "You've saved the damned things, haven't you?"

"Yes, Stuart, sorry, but I have!"

Having failed with fire, and having noted that the nearest river was too far away to rely on a flood, we decided to close the Shenstone operation, put the cars in store, then, after a lot of hard work be a development team led by Bill Meade, we converted all the remaining stock into road cars.

[Pedro 917]

Here are some pictures of said Lotus 24 "947" which I took at Spa (6 hours pre-race) last year. It didn't race as it suffered gearbox problems. It had a Jack Brabham Racing Organisation identification plate inside the cockpit, just above the gear lever. It belonged to Martin Stretton.
Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the (original) car indirectly the cause of Ricardo Rodriguez's death when John Surtees took pole from Ricardo in it during the closing stages of first practice for the Mexican GP? Ricardo desperately wanted to be on pole so jumped back in his Rob Walker Lotus 24 and had a fatal accident. Lovely car though......

[arttidesco]

Restarting my series of Saturday Lotus Blogs I was looking for information on David Coplowe's Lotus Climax 24 which came in 10th at last years Goodwood Revival, would any kindly soul be able to tell me which of the 15 (?) 24's David drove and or which teams/drivers it belonged to in period ?

Relevant answers may be credited and used in a forthcoming blog.

Thanking you in anticipation of your responses :-)

[cedricselzer]

The ex Brabham car ended up with Monte Shalett at some point. I know he bought it from a fellow American whose name escapes me. The advert says original engine. I remember that Jack had drilled holes above the cam followers and fitted plugs. This was done as there was a problem with Esso oil draining off the camshafts over night. Each morning we had to remove the cam covers to carry out this operation. When I asked ACBC if we could follow Brabham's example and fit blanking plugs his answer was an emfactic no. Tony Mantle who has all the FWMV records would know if the engine was sold to Brabham in period.

[Wouter Melissen]

Restarting my series of Saturday Lotus Blogs I was looking for information on David Coplowe's Lotus Climax 24 which came in 10th at last years Goodwood Revival, would any kindly soul be able to tell me which of the 15 (?) 24's David drove and or which teams/drivers it belonged to in period ?

I have that as '947'. The others in the race were the three BRM-engined cars built by Parnell (P1, P2 and P3).

[arttidesco]

Thanks Wouter appreciate your help, so this appears to be the same car that is shown in the opening post of this thread from 2002

Reading the earlier comments on this thread it looks like 947 started out as Jack Brabham's which possibly went to Syd van der Vyver who rolled it in Natal. Then after being repaired was damaged in a garage fire with the rebuilt remains going to David Hume.

In post #14 Pedro917 makes mention of 947 in connection with Ricardo Rodriguez, I believe he has confused 947 with Rob Walkers chassis 941 mentioned in post #4 .

I wonder if cedricselzer can give me an approximate time frame for Monte Shalett's ownership of the 'ex Brabham' car ?

Edited by arttidesco, 05 January 2012 - 10:06.

[cedricselzer]

This is the best I can do. Jack Brabham sold the car to Syd van der Vyver. after he rebuilt the car it went to Vern McWilliams. He sold it Dave Hume. It was then sold to a Mr. Kleinhans who in turn sold to Dr. Geering. The car went to America and I think to Phil Reilly. Monte Shallet had the car about 1984. I had seen the car a couple of times at Leguna Seca, once in the hands of Monte. The last I knew of the car it belonged to Dieter Streve- Mulhens. Will this help?

[arttidesco]

Most kind Cedric

Edited by arttidesco, 05 January 2012 - 21:56.

[Jeff Weinbren]

I do beleive this is the car with Syd Van Der Vyver taken at Kyalami many years ago!!


Shot at 2012-01-06

[arttidesco]

Thanks to Cedric and Woulter for their help with today's blog.

Jeff thanks for posting the photo

I guess those extra ducts in the nose were required to keep the driver cool in the warmer African climate ?

[Michael Oliver]

I know that this is quite an old thread now but I believe that references to Lotus 24-947 as '947' does this car a great disservice, as it implies it is not the real thing or has somehow been recreated at a later date and that is not so.

I've just completed a comprehensive investigation into its provenance and am quite sure that the car was not 'destroyed' by fire in 1963 as has been suggested in some quarters. I have a copy of a photo which shows it still largely intact after the fire. As Cedric quite rightly points out, the car was rebuilt by Syd van der Vyver for Vern McWilliams and sold to Dave Hume, who actually entered it for a race in South Africa in March 1966, although he was unable to take part due to running out of time to race-prepare it.

I have traced a continuous ownership chain from then until the present day, including interviewing all surviving owners or their descendants while it was in both South Africa and the USA. The car was rebuilt and in running condition in South Africa until 1974 when the then-owner put a rod through the side of its block.

The next owner contacted Tony Mantle of Climax Engine Services saying that he had bought the car and asking about buying parts to rebuild the engine and I have seen some of that correspondence.

I have also spoken to the US owner who brought the car out of South Africa (he had relatives there), the next US owner after that and the US dealer who sold it back to the UK in 1998. Its history since it has been back in the UK is well-documented.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by arttidesco
.....Pedro917 makes mention of 947 in connection with Ricardo Rodriguez, I believe he has confused 947 .....

Just clarifying...

The confusion is with arttidesco. Pedro917 mentioned that Ricardo crashed 941, but says (quite reasonably) that the indirect cause of the crash was John Surtees getting pole position in 947.