23 replies to this topic

[The RedBaron]

Dear Nigel,
Would you agree with me that Damon Hill remains underrated and could have won at least one more world title, had Williams not dropped him for 1997? It seemed to me that he was at the very top of his game at the end of '96 and, if you look at the mistakes Jaques Villenueve made during 97, I think that Damon could have eaten him for breakfast.
Ian Oxley, Norwich

Dear Ian,

Yes, I think Damon could have won another World Championship; no, I don't think he 'remains underrated'.

It was an odd situation at Williams in 1996. Jacques Villeneuve was new, both to the team and to F1, and although Hill usually had the upper hand, particularly in the first half of the season, in the last few races Jacques - who won his fourth ever Grand Prix, let's not forget - came on increasingly strong, to the point that there was nothing between them.

That was just as well for Williams, who had decided - even before the start of the '96 season - that they would not be keeping Damon beyond the end of it. Why? Because at the end of 1995, Frank and Patrick Head had concluded that he should have won the championship that year, but had simply made too many mistakes, and was not the man they would need to take on Michael Schumacher, who was moving from Benetton to Ferrari. Hence, they signed Heinz-Harald Frentzen from Sauber a year ahead of time, to come into the team in 1997.

The great irony, of course, was that, had Hill driven in '95 as he did in '96, Williams would never have thought of dropping him. I can still remember the atmosphere in the team at Monza, when Damon - on course for the title - learned that he was to lose his drive at the end of the year. The situation was unfortunate, to say the least.

Had Hill stayed with Williams-Renault for 1997, would he have beaten Villeneuve to the title? Possibly, but not necessarily. Yes, Jacques made mistakes that year - but he also had some quite brilliant drives, and won seven races. Whatever, I don't agree that Damon would have 'eaten him for breakfast'. No way.

Neither do I think Damon is underrated by history, quite honestly. He was a superb driver, and on his day - as at wet Suzuka in 1994, for example - had greatness in him. But although his F1 career began late - when he was into his thirties - he spent four of his seven-and-a-bit seasons in a Williams-Renault, which was undoubtedly the thing to have in that period, and he came out of racing with 22 Grand Prix victories. There have been somewhat greater drivers, I would suggest, with far fewer wins against their names.

[Daniel Lester]

At least Hill took the oppurtunity and won 21 times from 65 starts at Williams. Other drivers get the chance and blow it, while some deserve a chnace and never get it. No one could ever acuse Damon of missing his golden chance at glory, given his age, level of talent and who he was. Imagine had he only won a handful of races and no title, the comparisons with his Dad would have always been made. Instead he gets compared to MS, MH and JV, all of whom have made the post Senna/Prost/Mansell era what it is.

Damon isn't underrated, he did what was expected of him more often than not. He was never going to be a true great and his lack of consistency made sure of that. But on his day Damon was mega and I doubt people will forget Hungary 97 in an Arrows, Suzuka 94 in the wet, Spa 95 against Schumacher, Adeliade 94 against Schumacher, Spa 98 in a Jordan etc.

Hill's drive in Hungary ranks with some of Michael's wet weather drives.

[Robbie]

Originally posted by Daniel Lester
But on his day Damon was mega and I doubt people will forget Hungary 97 in an Arrows, Suzuka 94 in the wet, Spa 95 against Schumacher, Adeliade 94 against Schumacher, Spa 98 in a Jordan etc.

Hill's drive in Hungary ranks with some of Michael's wet weather drives.

Quite right. In fact, although I was not a Hill fan I was sickened when he did not win Hungary. I think we can say that Hill that day probably gave us the greatest performance of the last 20 years by any driver (similar heroics by Gilles are, I'm afraid, a little vague in my mind). The Arrows that year was terrible, but Hill's set-up was magnificent: he wasted absolutely nothing on any corner.

[Frans]

ooh Hill, where are thou?

good article.... still I have a little feeling he's still underrated. But it's not so tough that's it's a bad thing...

If Hill quited after his Williams period the magical Hunagry 97 would never be, and Jordan's maiden victory.... if he stopped at the end of 1996, he would have the stats of one of the greatest ever, don't forget that....

1999 was a sad wasted year, sad, but reality.

[Breadmaster]

under-rated imo too!

hungary '97 was (until the last 2 laps) the race of the gods themselves....

fangio at nurburgring in '57 is an equivalent in my mind.....

and as for suzuka '94 - he trashed M$ in the wet on a drivers circuit...what more can you say?

Damon

[Lantern]

Originally posted by Breadmaster
under-rated imo too!

hungary '97 was (until the last 2 laps) the race of the gods themselves....

fangio at nurburgring in '57 is an equivalent in my mind.....

and as for suzuka '94 - he trashed M$ in the wet on a drivers circuit...what more can you say?

Damon

The quality of the drives mentioned as opposed to what Damon did on a regular basis is what keeps people scratching their heads on how to rate him. When there exist a group of people that can find a way to negate the greatness of Michael Schumacher then it should be to no suprise that Damon Hill is considered a punter by a few fans here and there.........and to quite a few more an average driver who was gifted with great opportunity. I myself didn't/don't like Damon Hill, but respect the man for giving me what I want to see.........great racing.

[BuzzingHornet]

I thought it was a good piece by Nigel Roebuck. On his day Hill could match anyone

[Slyder]

Damon Hill rules!!

During his time, he made Hungary one of the most exciting races in the calendar.

Suzuka 1994 is legenday for leaving MS with his head up his ass.

GO DAMON!!!

[AgRacer]

Hill's win at Brazil in 1996 was, IMO, the finist drive of his carreer. Didn't lap all but the second place car of Berger? He was in a league of his own that day and gained a lot of respect from me for that drive.

[fullcourseyellow]

The interesting thing about Hill is that he was really rather mediocre in the junior formulae. But he seemed to have improved dramatically during his time as a Williams test driver (frequently matching Mansell's times in testing), and really capitalised on his chances when given the full time seat.


Anybody remembers why he was picked as Williams's test driver at the time, given his unspectacular F3/F3000 results?

[Will]

Originally posted by fullcourseyellow
The interesting thing about Hill is that he was really rather mediocre in the junior formulae. But he seemed to have improved dramatically during his time as a Williams test driver (frequently matching Mansell's times in testing), and really capitalised on his chances when given the full time seat.


Anybody remembers why he was picked as Williams's test driver at the time, given his unspectacular F3/F3000 results?

According to Hill's biography 'Damon Hill- The Legacy of Speed' by David Tremayne, he produced a cv. for Frank (at the time that Blundell, the previous test driver, was leaving for Brabham) which illustrated F1 drivers at that time that he had beaten at various stages in his career as well as his results. Throughout 1990 Hill's handling of the Middlebridge Lola T90/50 F3000 confirmed him as a man to watch- he led several races, but usually succumbed to electrical trouble. Nobody won with that car all season.

[taran]

Originally posted by fullcourseyellow
Anybody remembers why he was picked as Williams's test driver at the time, given his unspectacular F3/F3000 results?

1993 was the height of the gizmo era. Williams had lost/replaced both of its regular drivers from 1992, Nigel Mansell & Riccardo Patrese. Alain Prost would take the #1 seat but he had missed out on all the new gadgets after his sabatical year in 1992 (and Ferrari wasn't using them in 1991).

So Patrick Head insisted on having one driver who knew the car and the gizmos to accelarate development. That left their test driver, one Damon Hill. The fact that Damon was a nice guy in a very British way and the son of a popular former champion certainly helped to sooth the restless British mob after Mansell was shown the door.

On the grounds of his earlier showings, Damon shouldn't have made it into F1. He was invisible in F3 and fast but unlucky in F3000. He got the Brabham drive in 1992 after Niki Lauda's mistress Amati was sacked after 3 consecutive DNQ's and failed to be much better. It should have ended his career as it did van de Poele's but Damon managed to get the coveted Williams test driver role.

I wonder what certain people would have said about Hill belonging in F1. If a British F3 champion, Macau winner and Zandvoort winner like Sato can be ridiculed for getting into F1, what hope for a occasional F3 winner such as Hill.....?

[BuzzingHornet]

Point taken Taran but although it was only a decade or so ago F1 was different then... you had full grids with pre-qualifying, turbos, huge slicks and ground effect, F1 was cheaper to get into (although it has never been cheap ;) ) and so there were more seats available and drivers regularly came and went. In 1994 for instance, some teams had SIX drivers over the course of the season..! A different era. (and one i'd like to go back to Bernie!)

Therese days everything is freeze-dried, prepacked and corporate, thats why people like Sato (unfairly) get a hard time. Results are everything... fail to score points and you're dead in the water ;) Beat your teammate by one place you're a hero, get beaten by one place and you're crap

Hill never had any money and came to racing late, so you've got to take that into account when comparing him with other guys IMHO. He did bloody well with the opportunities that came his way (DC are you listening ;) ) and when push came to shove, had what it took to become champ.

I agree, Interlagos 1996 was his best drive... Lauda said afterwards that 'Hill drove like God' and he was a Ferrari man at the time!

[Will]

Originally posted by taran



He got the Brabham drive in 1992 after Niki Lauda's mistress Amati was sacked after 3 consecutive DNQ's and failed to be much better.

He was much much better than Amati- about 6 secs/lap at least less deficit to van der Poele! While van der Poele did outqualify Hill more than the other way round Hill was the one who managed to occasionally produce a serious effort to get the car on the grid (Britain, Hungary) whereas van der Poele only managed to make the grid in Kyalami, the first race of the season when he was against Amati.

In fact Hill's effort in Hungary was the beginning of his Hungary-king reputation! It was Brabham's last race, the engines had officially run their useful life and he managed to heroically qualify the car 25th, outqualifying 2 Dallaras and 2 Minardis. His team-mate had escaped to Fondmetal by then.

[eoin]

If Hill quited after his Williams period the magical Hunagry 97 would never be, and Jordan's maiden victory..

Hungary was a great effort by Hill,but it was as much down to the BS tires as anything else.
Ralf was second for Jordan,and COULD of passed Hill,but was told to hold back.

He was a good driver but lets not get carried away

[BuzzingHornet]

Originally posted by eoin


Hungary was a great effort by Hill,but it was as much down to the BS tires as anything else.
Ralf was second for Jordan,and COULD of passed Hill,but was told to hold back.

He was a good driver but lets not get carried away

Wrong race Eoin
Take a look at my avatar, Ralf never drove for Arrows ;)

[Force Ten]

Originally posted by eoin


Hungary was a great effort by Hill,but it was as much down to the BS tires as anything else.
Ralf was second for Jordan,and COULD of passed Hill,but was told to hold back.

He was a good driver but lets not get carried away

Please, check your facts about the next Bridgestone runner at that particular day at Hungary. I am sick and tired of hearing the same bullshit over and over again for three years in a row, always by new people.

[BuzzingHornet]

Not so much new people Force Ten but people who never actually watched the race

FYI Eoin Hill dominated the Hungarian GP in an Arrows Yamaha, pulling out a near 40 second lead, only for his gearbox to pack in on the last lap... his teammate? Hill lapped him on lap 19

[Captain Cranckcase]

Originally posted by eoin


Hungary was a great effort by Hill,but it was as much down to the BS tires as anything else.
Ralf was second for Jordan,and COULD of passed Hill,but was told to hold back.

He was a good driver but lets not get carried away

What the heck? That was belgium 1998 and anyway Damon had built up a huge lead Ralf only got close because of the safety car being deployed towards the end. Oh yeah and he won the race on Goodyears.

[Slyder]

Originally posted by eoin


Hungary was a great effort by Hill,but it was as much down to the BS tires as anything else.
Ralf was second for Jordan,and COULD of passed Hill,but was told to hold back.

He was a good driver but lets not get carried away

Whatever

Hill dominated Hungary and JV was never even close of catching him, and he left good ol Pedro Diniz in the dirt.

Ralf only managed to get close to Hill in Belgium because of the safety car and Hill outclassed Ralf the entire weekend at Spa

Check your facts better next time.

[Breadmaster]

Originally posted by Slyder
Hill dominated Hungary and JV was never even close of catching him, and he left good ol Pedro Diniz in the dirt.

Ralf only managed to get close to Hill in Belgium because of the safety car and Hill outclassed Ralf the entire weekend at Spa

You can't argue with facts can you....Damon was one of thre best but his driving style was so smooth that you couldn't tell if he was going fast or not....very similar style to Alain Prost...

[Robbie]

Originally posted by Breadmaster


You can't argue with facts can you....Damon was one of thre best but his driving style was so smooth that you couldn't tell if he was going fast or not....very similar style to Alain Prost...

That wasn't my impression, actually. For Williams he seemed at times to be really blitzing, in the way Mika sometimes did: he looked frighteningly fast. I suspect he was often faster than MS (the car of course was a factor) but MS's strategies really out-foxed him.

[Breadmaster]

he did lose out on strategy didn't he...it was as if williams used to make it up on the day and have no flexibility....

[Schummy]

Damon doing well in Hungary must be genetics at work, as his father was Mr. Monaco (another ultraslow track) as we all now!