20 replies to this topic

[goGoGene]

The topic of nationality/color of F1 cars was covered previously on this BB. And It seemed to be said that silver is the German color because of the Merc silver arrows (1930's). The cars were silver because they weren't painted, just polished metal, so as to be as light as possible. I was wondering if teams are not allowed to run unpainted cars now adays, that is to say, choose the color scheme "carbon fiber". I think bare cf is beautiful, but would it be legal to run as a livery?

[Andi]

What about the money the sponsors pay just to see thier names and colors there?????
Who could afford it to run with "carbon fiber" color????

[Andi]

I do not really see why it would not be legal ... as long as both car have the same livery .

[mono-posto]

GoGo,

I have often thought the same thing. I love bare CF. But if you've ever seen a F1 chassis after construction. it is not the best thing to look at. With bonded epoxy seams and milling marks and odd patches, it is really ugly. The Carbon Fiber would have to be laided in a manner that was atractive which would not necessarily be the strongest way.

And as a side note, White is actually the true national racing color of Germany (as well as Japan) but most people relate Germany's historic success's to those unpainted Mercs. So I guess Silver has just kind of been adopted.

I'm with you on the CF though. Screw the sponsors.

[goGoGene]

I like the screw the sponsor idea, but I wasn't including that. I figure you can stick on sponsor crap, just that your livery would be bare cf.

I guess I always thought that the car would be this beautiful continuous sheet of cf. But I guess that it must be epoxied together in a not so lovey fashion. I guess that they would have to higher clothing designers to design the best pattern.

But there must be a pound (lbs.) saved by not painting, and I'd think that would be desired.

[Andi]

I wasn't playing the devil's advocate, but I did not really understand where gGG was going.
I do not love them (the sponsors) more than you do, I just love their money and what they get turned into by the teams.

[Nathan]

Gene...I agree I dont see why Arrows painted there car in 98. Save the weight, but I would imagine they would still have to gloss it.

Nation Colors:

Italy: Red
Britian: Dark Green
Germany: Silver
France: Blue
Belgium: Yellow with Black nose
United States: White with Blue stripes
Japan: Red and White

Dont know anymore...sorry

[mono-posto]

One of the MEANEST looking and COOLEST F1 cars of recent years was the Ferrari Test car of '97-'98(?). It was painted pure black without any sponsors or anything. If that black was actually an attractive CF design, it would be perfect!

From an asthetic visual point, sponsors disturb the flowing lines of the cars. Thier logos usually are not the least bit harmonious with design of the body. They stand out (which I guess is what they want) and distract your eye from the real shape of the car. Can you imagine a natural beauty like the Mercedes W195 plastered with sponsors? What is one of the things that made the old Auto Union stream-liners so graceful? Thier lines were pure and visually stimulating like the curves of a nude woman.

Although much of that grace has given way to technology in defining the shape, a huge 'Marlboro' logo stairing you in the face dosn't help either!

Carbon composites have a graceful and beautiful weave to them, like fine cloth. I agree that it would be nice to see a car clear coated over the CF if it was laid out nicely. Like the upper surface of the front wings on last years Ferrari. The weave moved out at 45 degrees from the centerline and was left exposed. Very cool.

[Mr. Salty]

Yep,
The Arrows test car looked awesome this winter in plain black. Then they Oranged it up, and now it looks like, well, an Arrows.

[MN]

I think Colin Chapman(Lotus) is the one started painting whole car with sponsor colour instead of national colour.

Every other teams followed it except Ferrari and because of that Ferrari always looks good.

I asked this befor but will ask again.
What is the Canadian national colour?

[AyePirate]

Kudos to BMW-Williams for turning down sponsors that wouldn't
fit into thier color scheme. Style over cash, what a concept.

Regarding unpainted cars: The color schemes are the only way
to tell the cars apart anymore. Ok I'm exagerating a bit, but
there is a sameness that exhaustive wind tunnel testing and
restrictive rules have brought about. For example
in thier carbon fiber birthday suits who could quickly tell
this years MercMclaren and Jaguar apart?
Contrast this w/ James Hunt's McLaren and Niki Lauda's Ferrari. Those two cars look like they're from entirely different formulas!



[This message has been edited by AyePirate (edited 05-03-2000).]

[goGoGene]

MN the Canadian national color is beaver pelt. Too heavy to be adopted by F1.

[Eric McLoughlin]

Chapman was the first to go the whole hog and have his car colour schemes fully matched to a sponsor's product (Gold Leaf Team Lotus - 1968 to 1971). However, I think the first fully sponsored F1 team must have been the Yeoman Credit team from the early 1960's. Even though British, the cars were painted avery pale green with a red stripe down the "bonnet" and a red ring around the nose. They used Coopers, if my memory serves me right.

Of course, motor racing in America was sponsored almost from the very beginning, with cars being named from the sponsors, rather than the manufacturers. US national colours were only carried in F1 or Sportscar races.

[AyePirate]

Originally posted by goGoGene:
MN the Canadian national color is beaver pelt. Too heavy to be adopted by F1.

Can Atlas please add a"smiley" to indicate "Spit Take"?

[This message has been edited by AyePirate (edited 05-03-2000).]

[IRISH]

http://store1.yimg.c...s_1551_10282442

One of the coolest lookin' cars

[This message has been edited by IRISH (edited 05-03-2000).]

[Mila]

goGoGene, the Mclaren's of the 80s and early 90s used to show the bare black of the tub, but only in an area more or less under the front wheels--such teasers! this was altered (in 93, I think) with the red and white of Marlboro sponsorship.

MN the national colo(u)r of Canada, I believe, is the pink which graces the helmet of its native son! then again, doesn't "The Great White," ring a bell?

also, MN, Ferrari have indeed not stuck to their nationalistic guns in terms of color schemes, since the red of their cars these days is in deference to Marlboro, and not Italy.

[mono-posto]

Yes, but it could also be said that Jaguar has violated the 'traditional' British Racing Green. A matter of fact I remember a look back somewhere that compared BRG over the years and how it has changed and that there isn't a 'definitive' BRG.

I would imagine the same goes for corsa rossa. It changes with time. So the change in shade on Ferrari could be viewed as an evolution of corsa rossa. Though I like the deeper scarlet MUCH better.

[Dudley]

This won't happen while the minimum weight laws stop it being an advantage.

[goGoGene]

But it is an advantage even with minimum weight laws, since it allows just a little bit more ballast placement to be played with.

[AyePirate]

Originally posted by goGoGene:
But it is an advantage even with minimum weight laws, since it allows just a little bit more ballast placement to be played with.

So how much does the paint weigh? It can't be too much.
I remember years back (maybe during the 70's "Oil Crisis") an airline
tried ro fly unpainted airplanes to save the fuel required to lift
the thousand or so pounds of paint into the air.
I recall they stopped because their maintainence costs increased
(pitting of the aluminum was terrible) enough to outweigh the weight/fuel savings. So maybe the paint job serves more than cosmetic purposes.

[Eric McLoughlin]

In the Eighties, Eastern Airlines in the US changed to an all metal fuselage to save weight. Whether it saved them money or not I don't know, but they went bust in 1991 anyway.

American Airlines aircraft have had all metal finishes for over 40 years.

There never was a definitive British Racing Green. Each team tended to have its own shade of green and, in fact, the green often changed from car to car in each team, it just depended on what green paint happened to be lying around at the time.