19 replies to this topic

[LCA]

The Panoz Esperante GTR-1. Does it qualify as historic yet?

http://www.panozmoto...7k_history.html

I was wondering if anyone knew of a good source regarding the technical specs for this magnificent beast of the Mulsanne. The Panoz site above mentions the V8 Ford powerplant but not output.

The car gets my vote for the most beautiful Le Mans car *ever* built. Wow. I can't believe I said that. Don't beat me up too bad over that one...

[Rainer Nyberg]

It has been confined to the history books for quite some time now, so sure it qualifies...

Yes I have also been looking around for some specs on the Esperante.

The following details are from the Race Car Engineering Vol.8 # 7 :

At the '98 Le Mans the GTR-1 used an engine based on an aluminium block from Jack Roush.
With two 38.5 mm air-restrictors the 6-litre OHV engine developed 630 bhp @ 7200 rpm and the max torque was 700 Nm @ 6250 rpm. It used Zytek engine management.

Beautiful? It would not be rated on my top-ten Le Mans for sure, but there have been much worse I guess...

[AlesiGOD]

Very nice car, and the sound...

[LCA]

Originally posted by Rainer Nyberg

At the '98 Le Mans the GTR-1 used an engine based on an aluminium block from Jack Roush.
With two 38.5 mm air-restrictors the 6-litre OHV engine developed 630 bhp @ 7200 rpm and the max torque was 700 Nm @ 6250 rpm. It used Zytek engine management.

Beautiful? It would not be rated on my top-ten Le Mans for sure, but there have been much worse I guess...

Thanks for the info! I was guessing around 600bhp.

Maybe beautiful isn't the word - "cool and mean looking" might do it justice. I understand that David Brabham almost went deaf driving it b/c it was so loud in the cockpit. Maybe that has something to do with with them going topless in years to come...

[Rainer Nyberg]

Yes, it sure was different, and that is always refreshing....!

The Batmobile was also kind of cool, if not beautiful...!

A nice model of the car in question :

[BRG]

A more cynical person than me might suggest that a front-engined racer, with a stock-block V8 was already historic when it was first designed - or at least was out of date! : But to be fair, the Panoz series of cars have been far more successful than anyone might have suspected back in 1997, even taking the fight to the hi-tech Mercs, BMWs and Audis. Sometimes the old ways are still the best...

[LCA]

Originally posted by BRG
A more cynical person than me might suggest that a front-engined racer, with a stock-block V8 was already historic when it was first designed - or at least was out of date! : But to be fair, the Panoz series of cars have been far more successful than anyone might have suspected back in 1997, even taking the fight to the hi-tech Mercs, BMWs and Audis. Sometimes the old ways are still the best...

Panoz learned that last year with the LMP07! I'm not sure front engined cars, by design, are necessarily out-dated. You have to appreciate the raw thundering power of the Panoz - which showed last year at the Portland ALMS race. Those whiny Audi turbos just didn't have it. Admittedly, that is the exception rather than the rule and Portland is particularly suited to the Panoz.

Any reason you think front engined cars are on the outs? Just wondering...

PS - Great pic Rainer.

[MrAerodynamicist]

Originally posted by LCA
Any reason you think front engined cars are on the outs? Just wondering...

Well with the exception of series based on road cars, isn't just about every modern race designed around the principle of the engine in the back?

[LCA]

Originally posted by MrAerodynamicist

Well with the exception of series based on road cars, isn't just about every modern race designed around the principle of the engine in the back?

I'm not so sure the "none of the cool kids are doing it" argument works here...

What I was wondering is if there was some reason WHY we don't see more front engined race cars. Let me answer my own question...

1. Most race cars are rear wheel drive. So you want the weight of the car to be over those wheels to achieve higher traction. I'm no engineer but that makes sense.

2. By placing the engine in the rear you eliminate a lot of headaches in transfering the power from the front to the rear of the car, ie driveshaft, and you achieve higher efficiency in the delivery of power to the wheels.

That's my guess - any other ideas?

[ehagar]

From Racecar Engineering, March 2000....

Let to their own devices, mid engined cars have a weight distribution of around 40:60, with tyre sizes to match. The Le Mans regulations limit the maximum tyre width to 16 in which, while less than the ideal width for a rear tyre, is wider than that which is required for the front....

Panoz has mounted the engine as far rearward as possible (the team even describe its engine as mid engined), and placed the driver as near to the rear axle as possible. The closed Panoz had a stated 44% front weight distribution , so that of the LMP is probably around this figure, or maybe more. It becomes a positive advantage if the team can fit wider front tyres, or effectively use the size that the rear-mid-engined cars are using.

Front-mid-engined seems a more appropriate definition.

In prequalifying in 1999 the Panoz was only 0.1 sec of the top slot. It's not such a bad concept. The difficulty of transmitting the drive to the rear wheels isn't such a packaging issue on a prototype.

[BRG]

Don't get me wrong - I like anyone who is prepared to swim against the tide, especially if they make it work. For many years, it was only Mallock who continued to make front engined racers (and only really for certain club-level racing in the UK. It took Panoz to show that front-engine/RWD was still a viable concept for the race track. Now of course the GT category is over-run by such cars - Vipers, Listers, Ferrari Maranellos, Marcos, Corvette etc. Maybe the pendulum is swinging back and the radical Ferrai F2003 will be a front-engined car? Or maybe not ;)

[Pyry L]

Originally posted by Rainer Nyberg
Yes, it sure was different, and that is always refreshing....!

The Batmobile was also kind of cool, if not beautiful...!

A nice model of the car in question :
*pic snipped*

Nice indeed, is that the Auto Art 1/18 diecast? Btw, did you get my email reply at all?(there has been a few problems lately with the university email). How many road going versions are there of the Esperante GTR around, if any?

[Frank de Jong]

Interesting front-engined cars were the early 80's Zakspeed Capri's and Mustangs, culminating later into a full IMSA GTP car with a front engine. In the days of skirts and ground-effects, a front engine layout sure made sense. If I take a look at my model IMSA Mustang, the huge tunnel (as wide as the rear wheels permitted) and skirts makes one wonder if the car had to brake at all for a corner...

[Rainer Nyberg]

Pyry,

I got it, unfortuntely I have been unable to send the pics. I have a slight problem with the scanner and I am waiting for a new PC, and the problem will be corrected.

Nor sure what kind of model it is, I found it at some webpage.

No information about the production of the road-cars either, but I presume that they were pretty few, in single numbers.

[LCA]

Does anyone have an idea as to how Roush got involved in the project? Fascinating that the NASCAR king would go in for a Le Mans project... I guess Panoz was a paying customer...

I know of a site that has a great 1/43 (I prefer the smaller ones) model of the GTR. I don't have the address here - I'll post it later if anyone is interested.

[BRG]

Originally posted by LCA
Does anyone have an idea as to how Roush got involved in the project

Wasn't Roush involved with Le Mans cars in the past? I think that was how I had first heard of him, back in the 1970s when NASCAR was just a distant rumour for us Brits. I am sure that he prepared engines or maybe cars as well for the big race?

[ehagar]

It is quite common for NASCAR teams build their own engines, trying to squeeze a little more power out of them. Robert Yates comes to mind. I don' know alot about NASCAR, but I gather that Roush is among the most successful engine builders, and he has an Engineering group for all sorts of automotive services....

If you want a pushrod engine for a sportscar, I guess a NASCAR stock block is a good place to start....

[LCA]

Originally posted by ehagar
If you want a pushrod engine for a sportscar, I guess a NASCAR stock block is a good place to start....

I knew Roush built engines, but was the V8 in the GTR a NASCAR engine block? I'm not a NASCAR fan but that is pretty cool/funny. Don't NASCAR engines generate @ 800bhp? Maybe it was cooled a little for endurance...

[LCA]

Originally posted by BRG
Now of course the GT category is over-run by such cars - Vipers, Listers, Ferrari Maranellos, Marcos, Corvette etc. Maybe the pendulum is swinging back and the radical Ferrai F2003 will be a front-engined car? Or maybe not ;)

Don't get me started on the Corvette CR5. That is another favorite. Watching the Americans win at Le Mans last year - especially with Pruett at the wheel - was spectacular for me as an American Corvette fan. Speaking of models, I have a 1/43 of that very car.

I think one of the things that impresses me most about it is that the Corvette was really developed from a street car and made to win, unlike the BMW of GT (now gone, of course) and the Saleen of GTS.

[ehagar]

Originally posted by LCA


I knew Roush built engines, but was the V8 in the GTR a NASCAR engine block? I'm not a NASCAR fan but that is pretty cool/funny. Don't NASCAR engines generate @ 800bhp? Maybe it was cooled a little for endurance...

Well wasn't there an engine based on a Mopar Sprint car engine used at Le Mans last year? So....