32 replies to this topic

[Vicuna]

For years I wondered what the actual words to the 'Guess Who' song 'Runnin' back to Saskatoon' were.

The advert of the internet has solved that mystery.

Another mystery that perhaps can also be solved via this medium is 'What's the guts on Brian Hart?' One of the most brilliant engine men over the last 3 decades yet why did no one ever fund his F2 420R, or the 415T, the V8/V10 engines?

Was he just so independant that motor companies were scared off, or was he actually on the receiving of a lot more financial help that we have ever been told about.

I reckon he's an absolute bloody legend.

There's got to be more to this.

[Vicuna]

So i'm not the only one for whom this is a mystery!

[Rainer Nyberg]

While not aware of the actual backing, Hart always produced his engine on a shoestring when compared with others.

He is a clever guy and he lasted quite a long time in F1, despite the lack of budget.

I am sure that he has never provided any free engines, so it has always been a matter of getting paid for what he produces.

John Judd was involved with Yamaha for some time, but I think he is pretty much independent now, doing well selling his GV4 prototype engines.

[Giraffe]

Brian at Donington today....

[Richard Jenkins]

My goodness, he's aged, although it's good to see him out and about.

[kayemod]

My goodness, he's aged, although it's good to see him out and about.

Not surprising that he looks old, Brian can't be far away from his 78th birthday, I'd say he was looking OK for that.

[Giraffe]

Not surprising that he looks old, Brian can't be far away from his 78th birthday, I'd say he was looking OK for that.

I chose to post the most flattering photo of Brian that I took, as he is not in good health. However, when the Toleman fired up, he shed a tear which I found very moving.

[kayemod]

I chose to post the most flattering photo of Brian that I took, as he is not in good health. However, when the Toleman fired up, he shed a tear which I found very moving.

Good old Nosher.

[JacnGille]

However, when the Toleman fired up, he shed a tear which I found very moving.

[grelley]

Has there ever been a book or biography written on Brian Hart? If not does anybody on here know him sufficiently well to either do a book or better still get him on here to tell us about his life and engines. I for one woiuld be extremely interested. Something that shouldnt be left until its too late!

[AAGR]

Has there ever been a book or biography written on Brian Hart? If not does anybody on here know him sufficiently well to either do a book or better still get him on here to tell us about his life and engines. I for one woiuld be extremely interested. Something that shouldnt be left until its too late!

I am afraid it may already be too late ....

AAGR

[Peter Morley]

Has there ever been a book or biography written on Brian Hart? If not does anybody on here know him sufficiently well to either do a book or better still get him on here to tell us about his life and engines. I for one woiuld be extremely interested. Something that shouldnt be left until its too late!

There was a book about HART engines but they only printed around 75 copies for some reason.
It's called Hartpower the full story and is incredibly hard to find and expensive when you do.
I'd love a copy but haven't been able to find one myself.

[Nigel Beresford]

Fantastic fellow, Brian. Sorry to read that he's not feeling too special.

Back in 1989 and 1990 he was still managing to find more power out of the Cosworth engines used for what was Tyrrell's last period of being remotely competitive (i.e. the Postlethwaite-Migeot era), and what must have been the DFV-derived engine's final podiums in Phoenix and Monaco 1990. It was almost comical (and typically Tyrrell)... There would be hordes of Renault, Honda, Ford and Ferrari engine engineers working with their instrumentation, telemetry and their dedicated trucks, whilst Brian and Neil Roper would show up in the garage on a Thursday morning with an ECU in a briefcase and a laptop. No telemetry, and very little (if any) instrumentation. Just stick it in the car and go.

Brian always seemed to be amazingly well informed about the competition. He could tell you the weight and power output of all the rival engines, as if he was tapped in to some sort of engine guy mafia, trading secrets.

He's a huge fan of Eric Clapton, and used to love to go to the Albert Hall gigs. One time we were in a British Airways club at Singapore airport, en route home from some far eastern race. Brian popped out to buy something from one of the electronics shops, and a minute after he walked out, Clapton walked in and sat down in the corner. Then, a couple of minutes before Brian came back, Clapton left again. Huge disappointment...

Top, top man.

Edited by Nigel Beresford, 04 May 2013 - 12:50.

[ianselva]

I'm sure I remember Brian racing a 1172 Formula car at Brands Hatch and I think in the same race were Arthur Mallock , Len Terry and Colin Chapman.

[Peter Morley]

I'm sure I remember Brian racing a 1172 Formula car at Brands Hatch and I think in the same race were Arthur Mallock , Len Terry and Colin Chapman.

He also ran a front engined Terrier Formula Junior with a downdraught Anglia engine.

[Simon Thomas]

He also ran a front engined Terrier Formula Junior with a downdraught Anglia engine.

He was also Peter Sellers driver in F3. I remember a photo of Sellers with the car and it featured in the the first Casino Royale film. Did Hart also drive the F2 Protos?
Simon Thomas

[alansart]

Did Hart also drive the F2 Protos?
Simon Thomas

Yes and I believe he drove for the Ron Harris Lotus F2 team as well.

[carlt]

Brian's FWA powered S1 Seven *409 is being rebuilt in the states - it was rescued from a salt water swamp , apparently dumped there after a crash - [it's not pretty , as you can imagine]

[bradbury west]

Good old Nosher.

Nice touch that, Rob. Only someone who really knew him would use that name. Mike Costin was asking after him today.
Roger Lund

[RogerFrench]

I'm sure I remember Brian racing a 1172 Formula car at Brands Hatch and I think in the same race were Arthur Mallock , Len Terry and Colin Chapman.

It would be nice to think so, but I doubt it. He didn't start racing until some time after Colin Chapman finished with 1172. Len Terry started about the same time, though.

[doc knutsen]

Has there ever been a book or biography written on Brian Hart? If not does anybody on here know him sufficiently well to either do a book or better still get him on here to tell us about his life and engines. I for one woiuld be extremely interested. Something that shouldnt be left until its too late!

Seconded!

At the time when Harts were doing F1 engines, I purchased, from a company that used to advertise regularly in Autosport, a 420R engine. Despite allegedly being freshly rebuilt, it was nowhere near as powerful as it was meant to be. I wrote to Harts, not really expecting a reply seeing as how they were in F1 and all that...but within a few days, I had a very nice reply, Mr Hart's secretary saying that although they were now in F1, they never forgot where their bread and butter came from. They then provided an owner's manual for my engine, a very detailed reply to all my questions, and threw in a set of Champion sparking plugs f.o.c. They subsequently supplied all the parts I needed for a proper re-build (by Lennart Persson in Gothenburg, Sweden) quickly and at very reasonable prices...and the engine was a gem! Top man, Brian Hart.

[bradbury west]

It would be nice to think so, but I doubt it. He didn't start racing until some time after Colin Chapman finished with 1172. Len Terry started about the same time, though.

Don't forget that Len and Brian were/are always very close from the London Special Builders'Group and 750MC days, with Brian racing Len's Terriers, as 1172 and 105E sports , then the FJ car, much to the consternation of ACBC. They also worked closely on certain engine pioneering developments on the 105E, but with Len's accident, and a general absence of working time and working capital, they had to shelve it, although it re emerged in a later incarnation with Brian.
Roger Lund

Edited by bradbury west, 05 May 2013 - 10:17.

[RogerFrench]

Don't forget that Len and Brian were/are always very close from the London Special Builders'Group and 750MC days, with Brian racing Len's Terriers, as 1172 and 105E sports , then the FJ car, much to the consternation of ACBC. They also worked closely on certain engine pioneering developments on the 105E, but with Len's accident, and a general absence of working time and working capital, they had to shelve it, although it re emerged in a later incarnation with Brian.
Roger Lund

Yes sure, but that was in the later 50s as I remember, and Colin didn't race in 1172 after 53 or 54. Though it's a long time ago, and I've slept since then.

[Giraffe]

I have just heard that Brian passed away yesterday at 3pm. RIP.

[D-Type]

I have just heard that Brian passed away yesterday at 3pm. RIP.

 

Simultaneously this thread was started by Richard Hinton

[chunder27]

I always remember Brian's name as he was based in Hertford was he not? 

 

And also being a rallycross fan I think he was heavily involved in building or developing the RS200 Evolution motor that was never really used in Group B, but obviously used in most RS200 rallycross cars that I saw raced.

[AAGR]

Quite right, chunder27 - In fact Brian designed the RS200 Evolution engine completely - for it was much more than just an enlarged BDG. It had a longer cylinder block, re-spaced cylinder bores, and much much more ....

[chunder27]

I did not realise he was the main man behind it.  It was a good engine. And by all accounts he was a good man and a very very good engine builder and tuner!

[h4887]

I always remember Brian's name as he was based in Hertford was he not? 

 

And also being a rallycross fan I think he was heavily involved in building or developing the RS200 Evolution motor that was never really used in Group B, but obviously used in most RS200 rallycross cars that I saw raced.

Harlow, not Hertford. I used to work just round the corner and often heard his engines on the dyno

[AAGR]

  Brian Hart was a fine engineer, and a thoroughly nice and likeable man.

 

  It is also worth remembering that it was Brian who designed and developed the alloy cylinder block for the Ford-Cosworth BDA engine (not Cosworth) which allowed it to be enlarged to the full 2.0-litres), and he was also the original designer of the 24-valve four-camshaft 2.9-litre vee-6 (based on the Ford-Cologne V6) which Cosworth were finally able to put into production.

 

  And there was more ....much more ....

[chunder27]

Oops Harlow not Hertford, not far apart after all.

 

Harris brothers are in Hertford

[Vicuna]

Wow - 15 and a half years after I started this thread and it gets revived!

 

Whereas once I was a regular here, these days I hardly ever post - but I do look in occasionally...and to my surprise I saw this old thread.

 

I'm still not sure we know exactly why a corporate never attached themselves to Brian Hart, in the way Ford did with Cosworth and Ilmor with Mercedes etc.

[AAGR]

Wow - 15 and a half years after I started this thread and it gets revived!

 

Whereas once I was a regular here, these days I hardly ever post - but I do look in occasionally...and to my surprise I saw this old thread.

 

I'm still not sure we know exactly why a corporate never attached themselves to Brian Hart, in the way Ford did with Cosworth and Ilmor with Mercedes etc.

 

  But they did - Cosworth (getting large on the back of Sierra RS Cosworth engine production, plus Mercedes-Benz, and GM manufacture too ....) bought Hart towards the end of the 1980s, but the romance soon cooled, and Brian bought back his independence a short time later ....