21 replies to this topic

[cheesy poofs]

I'm talking here about Gilles' brother...not his son.

I always thought he had the same special talent as Gilles but unfortunately was never able to prove his true talent in the very few chances he got.

For those who think the ' 97 champ is like his dad...you're wrong !

Gilles' brother was just as fast, courageous, crazy, exciting, etc... you name it.
Both had the same background in racing ( ie: snowmobile, FFORD, FAtlantic... )
I think he just made terrble career choices. That's why.

He could have been just as popular behind the wheel of an F1 car as his big brother became...


What are you thoughts ??

[fines]

Jacques "l'oncle" Villeneuve is still very active in snowmobile racing. He has a fanclub with its own website (sorry, can't remember the url), and until a few years ago regularly raced in one or two FAtlantic pro-races each year. Scored some good results as well, sometimes with outdated machinery. IMHO he was not as good as his brother (who really was?), but given the right breaks he could've had a decent F1 career (along Palmer or Larini lines) if it wasn't for his last name. Somehow people expected him to blow the mind, and when that didn't happen everyone lost interest.

During my FAtlantic research I stumbled about a Usenet article which complained that JV got his Atlantic break (at Doug Shierson Racing, iirc) due to his name, and at cost of Gilles' former teammate Richard Spenard. Not wishing to divert this thread OT already on its second post (), but anyone knowing more about Spenard?

[cheesy poofs]

Jacques was given a chance to test an F3 with the help of Marlboro and the plan was to take that driver into F1 after a season of Italian F3.

Having never driven an F3 before, he shattered the lap record ( Vallelunga) and came out on top the the test. The Marlboro people were very impressed

The drive was HIS but he did not feel like living in Italy.
The much coveted drive fell to Mauro Baldi who went on to F1 the follwing season...


Rainer,

FYI - Richard Spenard is now the head instructor at the newly ( last week ) opened SKIP BARBER RACING SCHOOL at Le Circuit Mont-Tremblant.

[cheesy poofs]

Sorry...Michael

I actually meant you.

[FEV]

Originally posted by fines
Not wishing to divert this thread OT already on its second post (), but anyone knowing more about Spenard?

Spenard raced all there is to race in Canada during the 80s. He was good in F.Ford and F.Atlantic, but most of all he shone in Sedan series like the local Porsche Cup he won several times. The best he went on an "international" level must be SCCA Trans-Am. He opened a racing school at Mosport in the late eighties and almost every Canadian driver who broke on the international scene in the 90s (JV but also Moore, Carpentier and others) started there. When I was researching some stuff on Stéphane Proulx, a friend from Québec told me Spenard is very popular in Canada, mainly because of the work he did for the promotion of the sport there (and also because he speaks his mind apparently).

[David M. Kane]

Clearly not taking that F3 drive in Italy was a HUGE mistake. Basically,
not wanting to live in Europe is what killed Michael Andretti's F1 career
too.

Mauro Baldi could not HOLD JV helmet bad in my opinion.

[Berner]

Actually, I believe the Spenard-David Racing School was based at Shannonville where you could run a Camaro-Firebird showroom stock car, or an F2000 car, both drawn from the then recently cancelled national series.

Spenard was a great driver who, like many Quebecers of the era, was just one step (ie. money or a Gaston Parent) from the big leagues. Don't forget Bertrand Fabi too, as well as Proulx, Bourbonnais, Christian Vandal and others.

With regard to Oncle Jacques, he was also the loser in IndyCar when Canadian Tire pulled back from their U.S. expansion plans, IIRC. He did really well in the races he entered but then the tap was shut off.

Final comment: when Jacques Junior arrived in F-Atlantic, almost out of no where to the casual fan, some greeted him as the product of a marketing plan more than the son of a legend. There was a lot of cynicism and even the occasional "Told you so" whenever he failed to finish. I recall being at the 93 Moosehead GP when neither Player's car qualified (?); fans were not amused by his pony tail and rock star/euro trash attitude.

And going even further off topic, can someone tell me why David Empringham never made it to CART after winning big time in Indy Lights?

[cheesy poofs]

And going even further off topic, can someone tell me why David Empringham never made it to CART after winning big time in Indy Lights?

A very talented driver indeed.

He was part of the Player's driver development when he ran in IndyLights but was dropped in favour of younger ( Tagliani, Camirand, etc... ) drivers...

[Dave Ware]

After Greg Moore's death, there was a test for the open seat in the Player's team. Alex Tagliani, Lee Bentham, and Empringham took part. Tag was fastest. Bentham was 2/10s slower. Empringham was slower still, perhaps .5 of a second. Tag got the ride.

Why else didn't Empringham get a chance to move up? I think his championships were won more on consistency than on the speed and flash that the really hot drivers display on their way up.

[bpratt]

Both Frere/Oncle Jacques Villeneuve and Richard Spenard were inducted into the Canadian Motorsport Hall of Fame earlier this year. I'll see if I can paste a bit on Spenard from Inside Track Motorsport News here:

Richard Spenard has been a very active and successful competitor at the senior
level of Canadian and international racing for more than 25 years. In fact, he tops the list
for the most wins in Canadian road-racing history.

He won his first championship title in 1974 with eight victories in 10 races at the
Jim Russell Racing School series at Mont Tremblant, and followed it by racing in
Formula Atlantic in Canada and the U.S. and was a teammate of Gilles Villeneuve in
1977.

Spenard won Canadian championships, year-after-year, from the late ‘70s onward
in Production GT racing, Formula 2000, the Players GM series and the Porsche Turbo
Cup series. In 1986, he recorded 12 wins in 24 starts in three different series (F2000,
Porsche and GM). He holds the record for most wins, poles and earnings in both the
Porsche and GM series.

He also raced in European Formula 3, the 24 Hours of Le Mans, 24 Hours of
Daytona, 12 Hours of Sebring and has recorded victories and poles in Trans-Am, IMSA
and North American Endurance racing.

The Quebec native is more than a great racing driver. He is also one of the
leading authorities as a racing instructor in North America.

He started teaching initially at the Jim Russell school at Riverside and Laguna
Seca raceways in California. In 1985, he founded the Spenard-David racing school at
Shannonville.

He was the initial teacher for such Canadian stars as former world champion
Jacques Villeneuve, Greg Moore, Patrick Carpentier, David Empringham, Ron Fellows
and Trevor Seibert.

Spenard doesn’t drive as often these days, but has fun each July by usually coming
from the back of the pack to win the endurance support race at the Molson Indy Toronto.
-30-

I'll try and do Jacques later (tomorrow). I see Empringham is running the Grand-Am Cup Street Stock series and won with Scott Maxwell in a Porsche at Daytona.
Brian Pratt

[fines]

Originally posted by Dave Ware:
Why else didn't Empringham get a chance to move up? I think his championships were won more on consistency than on the speed and flash that the really hot drivers display on their way up.

That last comment may be true, but DE had lots of speed, also! Now Empringham, Villeneuve, Proulx, Bourbonnais, Bentham, Carpentier, Tagliani. Add to that Trevor Seibert and you can see that Canada was blessed with a lot of driving talent in the nineties. Interestingly, again on the Usenet I found an eye-witness report of the '93 Mosport FAtlantic race in wet/dry conditions, which was won by Bourbonnais from Villeneuve, Empringham and Carpentier. The author was enthusiastic about the talent displayed by the four Canadians and felt they could all go a long way, "especially Bourbonnais, Empringham and Carpentier". Interesting whom he left out...

[fines]

Originally posted by Berner
I recall being at the 93 Moosehead GP when neither Player's car qualified (?);

Not quite acurate recollection: Both Bourbonnais and Villeneuve qualified (there were only twelve cars present, anyway), but smashed their cars in practice. The team had a new car flown in overnight (!), only for the drivers to crash the spare and the new car again in the warm-up, and at the same corner to boot. Only Villeneuve's was repairable in time, and he went on to have two more (minor) crashs in the race! Barry Green was not amused. That weekend alone must have cost the team a fortune...

A few weeks later Villeneuve took out himself and Bourbonnais during the Trois-Rivières GP. Add to that more wrecks by Villeneuve at Milwaukee and Bourbonnais at the Canadian GP support race (both caused by other drivers), and you can see that Player's spent a lot of money to finish second and third in the championship.... despite winning twelve of the fifteen races (and losing one more win on a rules infringement)!

[Crazy Canuck]

Spenard is also coachs Tag and Carpentier during the CART season. He is a great driver and great guy.

CC

[Crazy Canuck]

Originally posted by Berner
I recall being at the 93 Moosehead GP when neither Player's car qualified (?); fans were not amused by his pony tail and rock star/euro trash attitude.

Hey!! I was there too...are you a bluenoser?!

As fines said - they qulified but crashed a lot. I was very disapointed as this was my first time observing Vill jnr. drive.

CC

[Mike Argetsinger]

Richard Spenard, by the way, is still quick.

And Jacques Villeneuve was very, very good. But here's a story that may amuse.

It was the first time that the Canadian GP was held on the Ile de Notre Dame circuit. The atmosphere was electric - it had been a while since the GP had last been in Quebec - and with Gilles V. in the Ferrari - the place was up for grabs.

The sole supporting race - The 'Coupe de Montreal' - was for Formula Ford and there were 65 entrants for (I think) 35 places on the grid. About half the entrants were Canadians and the other half the best of the American drivers from the North East and Central divisions, mostly. I was there in my Crossle 32F and I well remember the outer paddock we were relegated to. It was the only area that most spectators could get to that had actual race cars - and we never felt more attention (and revelled in it)!

Since we were only given a single practice session and a single qualifying, there was a lot of pressure to get on the grid. The Canadians had a distinct advantage as they had run a race there a few weeks earlier to "shakedown" the facility. As it was a national event, drivers with U.S. licenses were excluded.

Now that was a time when it was very typical at any given FF race to have the top 20 qualifiers all within one second. And it held true here - well, not quite. 2nd on the grid through 20th were in fact covered by less than a second. But the pole sitter was a full 2.2 seconds clear of the 2nd qualifier! And the driver? - you guessed it, Jacques V. And he motored away in the race to win by something like 50 seconds as I recall. You may draw your own conclusions but I will just say that noone was destined to win a race in Montreal on October 7, 1978 whose name was not Villeneuve. If anyone harbored a desire to protest - they were not foolish enough to do so!

Please understand that this is not meant to disparage Jacques V. who was, as I said, an exceptional driver - I just think it's a good story. Anyone who knows how much talent was around in FF in those times and just how competitive it was, will understand.

Since I've told this much I will indulge myself by telling you my personal story of the weekend. It was memorable in that I remember feeling at the time that I had given one of my best efforts ever - but, as sometimes happens, the result was disappointing.

I was coming off a good season - my first year back from Europe - and had won the New York State Road Racing Championship in FF (runnerup was a young lad by the name of Chip Ganassi) and in my previous race in late September had set a new lap record (for FF) at Bridgehampton. As I have said, on a circuit new to most of us we were anxious to make the most of the limited track time. We lined up in the pits for the false grid and as we moved out the coil in my car failed! I rolled to a stop at about pit out and was left there for the entire practice. After the session I was towed around the entire circuit behind some sedan - the rope was very short and with the sedan in front of me I could only see about 10 feet in front of me. But I remember trying to memorize the corners as I was whisked around!

So there I was for the single qualifying - without a single lap under power of the circuit. Again I clearly recall making a very concious decision to just go for it from the first lap out. I was (am) always a more intuitive than technical driver anyway - and the result was a 10th place on the grid. It gave me as much satisfaction as about anything I had done that year (except the lap record at Bridgehampton!). The race was anti-climatic. I was 6th after the first lap but was bumped from behind at a chicane and recovered in 25th. I just kept trying and at the end of the race was 11th. Perhaps not an impressive result if taken at face value - but in my heart I knew I had driven to the very best of my ability. It is a memory I still cherish.

I hope I won't be taken too hard to task for this personal story - but it's late at night, and as this all came back to me the fingers just kept clicking away on the keys!

[David McKinney]

No need to apologise, Mike
I for one always enjoy personal race reminiscences

[ehagar]

Originally posted by Dave Ware
After Greg Moore's death, there was a test for the open seat in the Player's team. Alex Tagliani, Lee Bentham, and Empringham took part. Tag was fastest. Bentham was 2/10s slower. Empringham was slower still, perhaps .5 of a second. Tag got the ride.

If memory serves me correctly, Bentham was actually the fastest.

[David M. Kane]

Two or two and half seconds in any race is a lot; BUT 2 1/2 in a FF is enormous. I think that says a lot about the guy's ability. I still maintain
his single biggest mistake was NOT racing in Europe.

If I recall Gilles got a break when McLaren gave him a test or a race in its F1 car. Since race driver selection is at best a subjective selection
process, if I were an owner I would want to see the guy against the rest of
the talent I was considering.

[Mike Argetsinger]

Dave - his ability is unquestioned - - - but you missed the point of my story. He wasn't really that much (or at all, for that matter) quicker than any of the other top runners. Read it again. I was intentionally indirect in delivering the "punchline" to the story!

[bpratt]

I see the Spenard paste-up looked like hell and doubt if this one on Jacques Villeneuve will look better. Again, from InsideTrack Motorsport News:

Frere Jacques Villeneuve, the brother of Gilles and uncle of Jacques, has been
selected for his excellence in automobile racing as well as snowmobile racing.

He is best known as the first Canadian to win a CART race (Elkhart Lake) and has
been World Snowmobile Champion three times and is favoured to become the sport’s
first four-time champion this winter at the world showdown in Eagle River, WI.

As always, Jacques is know for his wide open, sometimes wild, driving style and
his passionate desire to win every time out.

He started racing in 1976 and was Rookie of the Year in the Honda Civic
championship.

He won the title in 1977 before going Formula Ford racing in 1978, where he
finished second in the Jim Russell championship. In 1979 he was Rookie of the Year in
the Canadian Formula Atlantic series and won the Atlantic championship in 1980, the
same year he won his first world snowmobile championship.

He repeated as Formula Atlantic champion in 1981 and tried his hand at Formula
1, failing unfortunately to qualify an Arrows at the Canadian Grand Prix and the U.S. GP
at Las Vegas.

In 1982, he was second in the Can-Am 2.0-litre championship and won his second
snowmobile title, and the following year, he won the Can-Am 5.0-litre title but again
failed to qualify for the Canadian GP.

He entered CART competition in 1984 and drove three seasons, winning the
Elkhart Lake round in 1985. In 1986 he added his third snowmobile crown.

From then until 1993, Jacques’ automobile career wound down, but every time
out, whether it was in Can-Am, the Porsche Super Cup or Formula Atlantic series, he
qualified frequently on pole (Mont-Tremblant, Trois Rivieres), and either won (Trois
Rivieres) or finished near the front in Atlantics.
-30-

[Berner]

Crazy, not a Bluenoser. Was based in Ottawa then and had a small part to play in 2 FF teams (Steve Adams and Graeme Peppler) as well as Walter Koller's FA team. We always enjoyed the party in Hfx and, as the event organizers were almost all drawn from the Motorsport Club of Ottawa, we drove down every year. Adams is another Canuck driver who, after dominating FF for 2 years, never made the leap to F Atlantics. No cash.

As for the selection of Player's Indy drivers after Greg's passing, I wonder if there was a pro-Quebec bias among management? Imperial Tobacco's head office is in Montreal and Quebecers are the biggest open wheel race fans in Canada, so did that have any bearing on the final choice of two Quebec based drivers? Dunno.

Amazing crop of OW drivers from such a small - and wintry - country!

[Viss1]

I just finished reading Brock Yates' Cannonball - The World's Greatest Outlaw Road Race . Turns out Jacques participated in the'79 running of the event in a Porsche. Finished 8th., IIRC. Gilles was slated to run as well, but racing commitments got in the way.