26 replies to this topic

[biercemountain]

I watched the last part of "Champions Forever: The Quick and the Dead" last night on Speed Channel. I must say that I was very impressed by the footage, even though the accidents were pretty depressing. Safety sure has come a long way since the early seventies. The Williamson accident is something I'll never forget now.

God bless you Sir Jackie Stewart. He's probably saved more drivers lives than any doctor through his demands for driver safety.

The footage from Monaco made you realize how insane it is to drive a GP car around that track EVEN THEN. I can't imagine what it must be like NOW!

The starts were interesting too. Much less strict, with cars inching forward after what seemed like an eternity of waiting for the flagman to launch them. The scene where a fan or marshal darts across the track right at the start was heart stopping too. What an idiotic gesture! Yet it still happens (Hockenheim). Anyone know where that was? Looks like South Africa but I'm not sure.

[Rediscoveryx]

I have not seen the documentary but I know some idiot ran across the track at the start of the 1977 South African GP (not the same incident that killed Pryce) though I'm not sure if that could be the race you're referring to as I believe "The Quick and the Dead" was made before that.

[FredF1]

The one where the guy dashes across the track and leaps the barrier just as the cars come by?

South Africa is correct but I can't place the year.

I have it on video but can't get to check it right now.

[Rediscoveryx]

A similar situation occured in Portugal 1986 but that was in the middle of the race and the year is way off.

[Buford]

Well talking about the old days, in the 1960s the photographers and others with passes to be on the track side of the barriers were allowed to run across the track in the USA. They would signal the corner captain and he would wave them across when the coast was clear. There was a big fat photographer who I often saw at races. He was a regular so must have been a pro shooting for a major magazine or something. Well one time at Road America, during a Can Am race, he was running across the track (or waddling quickly anyway) at corner 5 and he stumbled and fell down.

His camera and bag went scattering and he was so fat it was a big struggle to even get to his knees. So here came a car down into 5 and he was still on his knees right near the apex but a half a car width out. They had a waving yellow (a frantically waving yellow) so the driver was able to avoid him by going wide. But the times were different then. Can you imagine that today?

[lynmeredith]

I always enjoyed the antics of Toto Roche(?) at Rheims who used to stand in front of the cars on the grid, drop the flag and run like hell. They never got him though. An impressive performance for a small fat man.

Lyn M

[FLB]

The interviews in The Quick and The Dead were done by Peter Manso in 1973. The film was repackaged by Claude du Bosc in 1977. The accident at the beginning is indeed the one that cost a marshall and Tom Pryce's lives at Kyalami that year.

It's available as a video from Columbia Pictures. A friend of mine got his from Classic Motorbooks a few years ago.

[stevew]

I saw that documetary about 20 years ago.

Back then, the drivers didn't have all of the computer gizmos they have today; they were, themselves, controlling the wild animal known as a Formula 1 car...

[bkalb]

Today (May 26, just before the Monaco GP), I saw the entire "The Quick and the Dead" documentary, which my cousin here in L.A. taped from the Speed Chanel. It's really quite remarkable: the photography is excellent, really giving an idea of what it's like when GP cars go around a corner, and Jackie Stewart's drive around the old Nurburgring in a Mercedes convertible, as he explains the corners and the quirks of the old course, alone makes the documentary worth seeing. Very, very good, despite some rather overdone narration by Hollywood actor Stacey Keach.

It's availble from the Speed Channel for only about US$15. I recommend it highly.

Barry Kalb

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Buford
Well talking about the old days, in the 1960s the photographers and others with passes to be on the track side of the barriers were allowed to run across the track in the USA. They would signal the corner captain and he would wave them across when the coast was clear. ....

Yeah, we used to do that. No real fatties among the lads here though, even if Bill Forsyth carried more than his fair share... would never have expected him to stumble like that.

Once, however, there was a tripod set up on the outside of the approach to The Causeway at Warwick Farm and it was cleaned up when Bob Jane spun his Mustang.

Barry will remember, too, there was a really fat guy took pics at the speedway, sold prints from an old green panel van, possibly a pre-war Ford or Chev. His name comes to me in a flash of light... Des Lawrence. From memory there was a timber panel along each side of the van proclaiming his name and craft...

[Jape]

This might go a bit off topic, but..

I have seen films/documentaries like

Grand Prix
Jo Siffert - Live Fast Die Young
Le Mans
Nine Days in Summer
The Quick and the Dead / Champions Forever

and some driver (Hunt, Lauda) and track (Nürburgring being build) documentaries.

Now I'm asking advice, what could I watch next? I'm open to any advice of films/documentaries about motor racing scene, but mainly I'm trying to catch the spirit of racing in 60's / 70's. Not particulary on track, but also outside, the spirits in the pits, off track live/events, etc.

[kevthedrummer]

I would highly recommend getting a hold of, 'The Speed Merchants', a documentary about the 1972 racing season narrated by the drivers themselves, including Vic Elford and Mario Andretti. Along with fantastic footage from Sebring, Monaco, the Targa Florio and Le Mans there is also plenty of footage away from the circuits. I really liked the soundtrack too.

[Rob G]

I'll second "The Speed Merchants." The documentary "Once Upon a Wheel", narrated by Paul Newman, also gives a great sense of racing in the late '60s and early '70s.

[wildman]

"Champions Forever" is available from Green Mountain Motorbooks:
http://www.vtmotorbo...index=VTDVD5953

[Speedy27]

Originally posted by -Japé-

Now I'm asking advice, what could I watch next? I'm open to any advice of films/documentaries about motor racing scene, but mainly I'm trying to catch the spirit of racing in 60's / 70's. Not particulary on track, but also outside, the spirits in the pits, off track live/events, etc. [/B]

The Speed Merchants : as already mentioned by others - one of the best racing movies, I'd rate as 5/5+

Can-Am Thunder : recently released - I'd rate it as excellent, say 4/5

Jackie Stewart - Triple Formula 1 World Champion - I'd rate as 5/5+ (but I'm unashamedly biased!)

If You're Not Winning, You're Not Trying : follow the JPS Lotus team through the 1973 Grand Prix season, 5/5+

Lap Of The Gods : in car footage of REAL grand prix cars on REAL grand prix tracks - excellent, I'd rate as 4/5

Speed Fever : made in 1977, very similar to The Quick & The Dead - outstanding, but gruesome at times, overall a very good portrayal of F1 in the early 70's when F1 was not broadcast into every household and drivers were seemingly often considered (by those on the outside) as death-defying daredevils, I'd rate 5/5 - very hard to find, suggest setting up a search on eBay, VHS only as far as I know

Pole Position : sequel to Speed Fever, concentrates on the 1980 F1 season, I'd rate as 5/5+, very hard to find, suggest setting up a search on eBay, VHS only as far as I know

Turbo Time : on a similar vein as Speed Fever, but a bit shallow (and at times totally cheesy and insufferable), I'd rate as 2/5, VHS only as far as I know

F1 Legends : documentaries on Jim Clark, Mike Hawthorn and Rob Walker - very informative, I'd rate as 4/5

Grand Prix - The Golden Years : narrated by John Watson - superb 5/5

Formula One 1970 through 1980 (individual DVD for each year) - excellent overall coverage of each season, rated between 4/5 and 5/5

Driven : with Sylvester Stallone......NO NO NO PLEASE - I'M ONLY KIDDING

This should hopefully keep you occupied for the next few days...

Many of these DVD's are available through amazon or duke. If you're battling to find them, do a google search as follows : "title" +dvd

[Rosemayer]

White Star has a VHS tape called Motor Racing in the 1960's.

Excellent I have watched it at least 50 times.

[Paul Parker]

Buford 12-May-02 00:54 5

Well talking about the old days, in the 1960s the photographers and others with passes to be on the track side of the barriers were allowed to run across the track in the USA. They would signal the corner captain and he would wave them across when the coast was clear.


It was the same in Britain as I discovered during the 1967 BOAC 500 at Brands Hatch, the senior marshall at the post would signal when you could cross.

I also recall a friend marshalling at Brands during the mid-70s laying down cement dust on the racing line through Paddock after a F5000 car had dumped its oil and the other marshalls giving warning blasts on their whistles as the cars approached so that they could temporarily withdraw!

His wife to be sat nervously beside me as I assured her that husband to be would not come to any harm, carefully hiding my fingers crossed hands behind my back.

No question of stopping the race, safety cars or even a slow down signal, everybody just kept going as they saw fit.

[Formula Once]

As far as I remember a guy ran across the main straight as recent as the 1989 Brazilian GP (at the start).

[Ralliart]

A guy ran across the track one year at Monaco and Senna NEARLY collected him. ABC-TV's "Wide World Of Sports" telecast and not one peep from the moderator(s). IF he had stumbled - chaos. I think the poster was referring not to the incident with Pryce but to the idiot running across the track at the start of Kyalami '73 - in "The Quick And The Dead".

[ex Rhodie racer]

Originally posted by biercemountain


God bless you Sir Jackie Stewart. He's probably saved more drivers lives than any doctor through his demands for driver safety.

I´m not sure you will ever understand the irony of your signature.

[MLC]

Originally posted by Formula Once
As far as I remember a guy ran across the main straight as recent as the 1989 Brazilian GP (at the start).

Not at the start. The idiot ran across the track as Nigel crossed the finish line for his first Ferrari victory.

[COUGAR508]

Originally posted by Ralliart
A guy ran across the track one year at Monaco and Senna NEARLY collected him. ABC-TV's "Wide World Of Sports" telecast and not one peep from the moderator(s). IF he had stumbled - chaos. I think the poster was referring not to the incident with Pryce but to the idiot running across the track at the start of Kyalami '73 - in "The Quick And The Dead".

The guy who ran out in front of Senna was a marshal, I believe.

I think it might have been the 1972 South African GP where the spectator ran across the track at the start.

[JSDSKI]

Originally posted by ex Rhodie racer I´m not sure you will ever understand the irony of your signature.

Wonder whatever happened to Ambrose Bierce?

[Paul Taylor]

Originally posted by Speedy27
Formula One 1970 through 1980 (individual DVD for each year) - excellent overall coverage of each season, rated between 4/5 and 5/5

I think the 1970s F1 season review DVDs are very, VERY poor indeed. I can barely even give them 1/5.

[john t]

Yes they are poor but the amateurish nature of the limited footage does give them charm. Complete races and broadcast highlights from the fifties onwards are available from Italy. Check the site below:
formula1dvdfans

[rallen]

This is a great thread - I am always looking for really good racing documentarys to watch, the Quick and the Dead is a great atmospheric film - if you ignore the narator and concentrate on the footage and interviews! I have been lucky enough to track down a few of the films here but I have been unable to get hold of a copy of 'Speed Fever' which I am desperate to watch. Does anyone know where I can get a copy on DVD? I would be greatful for any information I have been unable to see it anywhere even on eBay.

[hogstar]

I was given a VHS to watch at the end of the 1970's which I believe was one of the updated/renamed versions of The Quick and The Dead. As an 9 year old, the gruesome footage didn't bother me as that was what F1 was in that era - people got killed and often in the most appalling of circumstances. However, years later when I saw some of the footage again it appalled me. It was only then I began to understand what Jackie Stewart was trying to achieve often against the advice of his fellow drivers. I love seeing 1970's F1, but some of the circuits were just crazy. It was a cowboy operation back then and I have nothing but respect for any driver that took part in that era. It's an education for younger fans to see how the whole operation was in those days.

I'd advise anyone thinking of watching 70's F1 footage that contains driver death with extreme caution - And don't even think about the Italian documentary made circa 1980, complete with the most depressing of background synths I've ever heard for unnecessary melodrama and they even dubbed the Pryce/Van Vuuren collision with added an 'thump' - as if that were needed? Watch Out!!!