114 replies to this topic

[Enkei]

Kimi's Stats
Formula One Stats
(After Austrian GP 2002)
Grand Prix Debut 2001 Australian Grand Prix
Grand Prix Points 13
Pole Positions 0
First Podium 2002 Australian Grand Prix
Fastest Laps 1
Grand Prix Starts 24
Grand Prix Wins 0
Points Finishes 5
First Pole -
First Race Win -

2001 Season 





Grand Prix Free Practice Qualifying  Race 

Australia 11th 13th 6th 

Malaysia 14th 14th DNF 

Brazil  15th 10th DNF 

San Marino 6th 10th DNF 

Spain 11th 9th 8th 

Austria 8th 9th 4th 

Monaco 13th 15th 10th 

Canada 13th 7th 4th 

Europe 11th 9th 10th 

France 14th 13th 7th 

Britain 10th 7th 5th 

Germany 16th 8th DNF 

Hungary 15th 9th 7th 

Belgium 6th 12th DNF 

Italy 16th 9th 7th 

USA 11th 11th DNF 

Japan 15th 12th DNF 



Competition History



1987 First time in a kart 

1988-1990 Karting, some wins in Classes A, B and C 

1991 National karting, Class Mini 

1992 National karting, Class Raket Junior  

1993 National karting, Class Raket, Finnish Cup, 9th overall 

1994 National karting, Class Raket, Finnish Cup, 2nd overall  

1995 Formula A Karting: first race, and first win, 23rd April 

1996 Karting Grand Prix (European Series); World Championship races and Nordic Championship races; no wins in Finnish Championship, Class Formula A, finished 4th overall 

1997 Finnish Championship, Class Intercontinental A, Champion; Nordic Championship, Class Intercontinental A, 4th overall; Karting Grand Prix and World Championship races - invited to drive with Peter de Bruin Team 

1998 Lived in the Netherlands; Finnish Championship, class Formula A, Champion; Nordic Championship, Champion; Class Formula Intercontinental A, European Karting Grand Prix, winner; Super A, 2nd overall; Monaco Cup, class Super A, 3rd overall; World Championship, Formula Super A, retired from 7th position 

1999 Finnish Championship, Class Formula A, 2nd overall; World Championship, class Formula Super A, 10th; 

Formula Renault; Haywood Racing; 3rd in first race

Formula Renault Winter Series; Manor Motorsport; four races, four wins

Formula Ford Zetec Euro Cup; 5th

Formula Ford Festival; retired in final 

2000 British Formula Renault 2000; Champion with Manor Motorsport; ten races; seven wins; ten podiums; six pole positions; seven fastest laps. 

European Formula Renault 2000 Series: competed in three rounds; two wins; two pole positions; two fastest laps. Retired while leading in third race due to mechanical failure. 

Tuesday 12th September 2000 - First Formula One test, with Red Bull Sauber Petronas at Mugello, Italy. 

Thursday 7th December 2000 - Following 23 single-seater races, of which he won 13, Kimi was granted provisional Formula One Super Licence on a four-race trial. Formula One Commission voted 23-1 in favour. 









Formula One 



2001 Sauber Petronas: 9 points; 10th in the Drivers' Championship; fourth in Austria and Canada; fifth in Britain; sixth in Australia

Vs Juan's stats

Juan Pablo Montoya
Personal Details
Personal Details
Date of birth 20th September 1975
Birthplace Bogota, Colombia
Nationality Colombian
Lives Monaco (MC)
Marital status Single (engaged to Connie)
Height 1.68 m
Weight 72 kg
Hobbies Computer games
Favourite food Pasta
Favourite drink 7UP
First drove a car At the age of 14
First drove a racing car At the age of 5 in a go-kart
First race At the age of 5 in a go-kart
First win At the age of 5 in a go-kart

Career Highlights 

1981 Began kart racing   

1984 National Kart Champion in the children’s division   

1985 Second in the Children’s Kart Championship   

1986 Kart Champion in the local and national junior division   

1987-1989 Several local and national titles in the Kart Komet category   

1990 Kart Junior World Championship, Lonato, Italy   

1991 Kart Junior World Championship, Laval, France   

1992 Took part in the Skip Barber Course (USA);   

 Copa Formula Renault in Colombia, four wins in eight races, five pole positions   

1993 Nationale Tournement Swift GTI Championship,seven wins in eight races, seven poles   

1994 Karting – Sudam 125, class win;   

 pole position and circuit record prototype class Mexico; Formula N class Mexico, three wins in five races, four pole positions   

1995 Third in the British Formula Vauxhall Championship;   

 class win in the Bogota Six Hours   

1996 4th in the Marlboro Masters in Zandvoort (NL);   

 British Formula 3 Championship, two wins;   

 First in the Bogota Six Hours;   

1997 Second in the FIA International Formula 3000Championship (Marko Team);   

1998 First in the FIA International Formula 3000 Championship (Team Super Nova) with record points total (65 points);   

 WilliamsF1 test driver   

 Moved to North America to join Target Chip Ganassi Racing   

1999 First in the CART FedEx Championship Series, seven wins, seven pole positions, youngest champion in the history of the series   

2000 9th in the CART FedEx Championship Series, three wins, seven pole positions;   

2001 6th in the FIA Formula One World Championship, BMW WilliamsF1 Team, best result first place in Monza (ITA).

Juan already has a impressive career, Kimi is still young but regularly qualifies DC. Who do you rate the better drivers for now and for the future?

[DataFly]

Both are excellent, but I feel that Kimi currently has - and will maintain - an edge over Montoya.

[juanftoro]

Originally posted by DataFly
Both are excellent, but I feel that Kimi currently has - and will maintain - an edge over Montoya.

I was not very impressed with Kimi when he moved for Michael in Austria last year, but this year he has shown a lot of potential. The big difference is that JPM is a proven champion in F3000 and CART so he has what it takes not only to win races but to win championships!!! (that IS a hedge)

Lets wait and see...

[yr]

IMO Kimi is better (surprise ) , he is just a kid
with very limited experience, but he is outpacing DC.
And no, he cant outscore DC if his car doesnt last
the race distance.

JPM is 3-4 years older, has massive experience in
differenet formulaes, but still he keeps being
outqalified by Ralf (who isnt better than DC) and just
barely outscores him even though he is the only driver
along with MS who has had 100 per cent reliability.

[dynamic]

jpm is much better. Even when montoya was qualifying round 8-10 people were giving him stick but noone does that to kimi who had the gift of driving the 2nd most stable car last year.

Out qualifying a driver who´s dreams and aspirations have left is not great

[lukywill]

montoya 27 points
raikkonen 4 points

[davioissimo]

Originally posted by dynamic
jpm is much better. Even when montoya was qualifying round 8-10 people were giving him stick but noone does that to kimi who had the gift of driving the 2nd most stable car last year.

Out qualifying a driver who´s dreams and aspirations have left is not great

This WAS Coulthards year though or so he said so how much do you think kimi would've outqualified Coulthard by in Monaco last year ?

[jimmy mike]

I think both of them are elite of F1, probably current top 6 drivers. But if you want to be over critical then i would say Raikkonen isn't 'intelligent' enough so that one day he could be new Schumacher. Raikkonen is huge natural talent, but it seems like he doesn't want to take leader's role in team outside the cockpit. Raikkonen will probably win one or two titles in his career but his name won't be associated with names like Schumacher, Senna and Fangio after he retires.

Montoya, on the other hand, is good racer, aggressive and great to watch. Unfortunately he is too slow to be ever dominator in F1. If he cannot consistenly outperform driver like Ralf Schumacher, then i don't know how he could become next legend of F1.

IMO Raikkonen is already better than Montoya.

[se7en_24]

Originally posted by davioissimo

This WAS Coulthards year though or so he said

Care to provide a quote of him saying that, in fact for any season?

[AndrewK]

Originally posted by lukywill
montoya 27 points
raikkonen 4 points

Montoya - 0 DNF

Raikkonen - 5 DNF ( engine, rear wheel hub , exhaust, rear wing, engine)

IF Raikkonen had finished all races in the position he was in at the time of retirement (and moved up when cars ahead of him retired) he would have 13 points, and would have 3rd, 4th, 4th, 5th, 5th, and 6th place finsihes while racing in an inferior car. Using the current points to determine the difference between Montoya and Raikkonen is stupid.

[yr]

Originally posted by lukywill
montoya 27 points
raikkonen 4 points

Great observation.

Never mind about this:
Montoya: faster car with a100 per cent reliability.
Kimi: slower car with only one completed race, none
of DNFs was his own fault.

Yeah, makes sense to look at point standings if you
try to know which one is better.

[Mrv]

Montoya, not even close.

[Menace]

Originally posted by juanftoro


I was not very impressed with Kimi when he moved for Michael in Austria last year, but this year he has shown a lot of potential. The big difference is that JPM is a proven champion in F3000 and CART so he has what it takes not only to win races but to win championships!!! (that IS a hedge)

Lets wait and see...

[Haz 2]

It all depends on how good Ralph and DC are. If Ralph and DC are equal, then Kimi is probably a tad quicker then montoya in outright speed. However, I think Ralph is a much stronger driver then DC. At least in terms of consistancy, and I think Ralph is a better qualifyer as well. That would make Montoya faster then Kimi.

Both drivers have alot of potential, although Kimi probably has a bit more cause he's younger and less experienced. Either driver would be a good addition to a team, but I'd opt for Montoya, cause he's fun to watch (especially when around Michael).

[yr]

Originally posted by Mrv
Montoya, not even close.

Sure, and Massa is far better than either of them.

[Mrv]

Originally posted by yr


Sure, and Massa is far better than either of them.

Your being childish again. Forget Massa, he is not going to Ferrari for a hell of a longtime if ever. Rubens is doing just fine thank you very much. All you KIMI worshippers are something else. The guy is only the 5th or 6th best driver on the grid and you all hailing him as the equal to Senna, Fangio and Schumacher.

I have yet to see a drive from Kimi this year where I could say wow. Australia half the field was eliminated or he would not even made the podium. In the other races in which he drove some laps before DNFing he was nothing special.

[MONTOYASPEED]

Originally posted by Mrv
Montoya, not even close.

[HardRock]

Originally posted by Mrv
Montoya, not even close.

Yes I think the same.
Kimi is also very good but still very inexperience.
Kimi fans compare him with Fangio. That's

[Captain Cranckcase]

Montoya easily Ralf is one of the best on the grid only Villeneuve, MS and Fisi are better IMO. Raikkonen is another Wurz he just doesn't have the killer instinct and when Heidfeld comes aboard he will be back to Sauber fast.

[Chrissy Boy]

In some years it's these two how dominate the GP sircus.

I think Montoya has the upper hand right now, but things is going to even out.

[Makarias]

Mrv, funny then how Kimi was so close to JPM in OZ if it's "not even close" between the drivers... Clearly the McLaren is better than the Williams, I suppose...

And remembering how you started a thread about how Ferrari could get Massa for a way lower price than McLaren got Kimi, and you don't even seem very interested in getting Felipe to "your" team, I guess that you didn't start the thread just to have a swipe at Kimi, nononono...

But if you really did think that Massa and Räkä are drivers that should be comparable in price, I guess you already rate Felipe as quite equal to Kimi, say 5th-6th as you said? Then the drivers you would rate as top four would be Michael (of course), JPM (as stated above), Ralf (clearly close to JPM, unlike Kimi) and Nick (clearly faster than Felipe so far). Do you really think Kimi is overhyped if you yourself rate Kimi ahead of drivers like Fisichella, Trulli, Villeneuve and Barrichello? I don't see why you wouldn't want Kimi in Ferrari if you rate him above Rubinho...

[Senninha2000]

Originally posted by Haz 2
It all depends on how good Ralph and DC are. If Ralph and DC are equal, then Kimi is probably a tad quicker then montoya in outright speed. However, I think Ralph is a much stronger driver then DC. At least in terms of consistancy, and I think Ralph is a better qualifyer as well. That would make Montoya faster then Kimi.

Both drivers have alot of potential, although Kimi probably has a bit more cause he's younger and less experienced. Either driver would be a good addition to a team, but I'd opt for Montoya, cause he's fun to watch (especially when around Michael).

God dammit it's spelt R-A-L-F!

[HSJ]

Talent-wise there's no contest. KR is far superior to anyone else on the grid, including JPM. I'd guess JB and/or NH come closest, actually.

But current skill level? They're roughly equal. Both are just a little bit below MS/MH level (MH being a bit faster, MS more consistent, etc. just the rough level). Kimi will go beyond that quite soon though, JPM might not as he is already so experienced that there's not that much left to improve upon. Some yes, but not a whole lot. Kimi on the other hand still has just 46 car races under his belt.

Personally I rate the top drivers currently:

1. MS (but not by much, and if RB keeps upstaging him he'll go below the next bunch)
2. RS, JPM, KR
3. who cares?

[HSJ]

Originally posted by Mrv


Your being childish again. Forget Massa, he is not going to Ferrari for a hell of a longtime if ever. Rubens is doing just fine thank you very much. All you KIMI worshippers are something else. The guy is only the 5th or 6th best driver on the grid and you all hailing him as the equal to Senna, Fangio and Schumacher.

I have yet to see a drive from Kimi this year where I could say wow. Australia half the field was eliminated or he would not even made the podium. In the other races in which he drove some laps before DNFing he was nothing special.

Hey Mrv, what happened? Wasn't Massa supposed to be soooo much better than Kimi? And now that it is very nearly proven that FM is nowhere near KR in talent, you're having trouble. That's why you write what you do, don't you think others can't see that? Please...

Ferrari supposedly didn't want Kimi because they had their eye on Massa, that was the story. Well...

[Arrow]

Originally posted by yr

outqalified by Ralf (who isnt better than DC) and just
barely outscores him even though he is the only driver
along with MS who has had 100 per cent reliability.

Ralf has had 23 races in a in a real race winning car and hes won 4 races.
It took DC 60 odd races in even better cars to do the same.
Lets not forget DC has been getting beat by team-mates his whole career

[logic]

JPM 27 pts in 6 races is 4.5 pts per race VS Kimi 4 pts in one race.
JPM has edge because of he has better faster more reliable car but in same car Kimi would be simply brilliant! He would outqualify JPM just like he's outqualifying DC.

[Mrv]

Originally posted by Makarias
Mrv, funny then how Kimi was so close to JPM in OZ if it's "not even close" between the drivers... Clearly the McLaren is better than the Williams, I suppose...

And remembering how you started a thread about how Ferrari could get Massa for a way lower price than McLaren got Kimi, and you don't even seem very interested in getting Felipe to "your" team, I guess that you didn't start the thread just to have a swipe at Kimi, nononono...

But if you really did think that Massa and Räkä are drivers that should be comparable in price, I guess you already rate Felipe as quite equal to Kimi, say 5th-6th as you said? Then the drivers you would rate as top four would be Michael (of course), JPM (as stated above), Ralf (clearly close to JPM, unlike Kimi) and Nick (clearly faster than Felipe so far). Do you really think Kimi is overhyped if you yourself rate Kimi ahead of drivers like Fisichella, Trulli, Villeneuve and Barrichello? I don't see why you wouldn't want Kimi in Ferrari if you rate him above Rubinho...

1 Schumacher
2. JV
3. Fisi
4 Montoya
5 R Scumacher
6. Rubens

7. Kimi, DC, Button, Trulli, HHF, Heidfeld


Enough said. Kimi at Australia had the quicker car but didn't even make an attempt at Montoya. Actually he decided to cruise for a 3 place position. If Rubens or Ralf wouldn't have collide Kimi would have ended at best in 5th. Sorry he just has not impressed me in the races. In qualifying he has had the upper hand on Dc but then it is only DC.

[Mrv]

Originally posted by HSJ
Talent-wise there's no contest. KR is far superior to anyone else on the grid, including JPM. I'd guess JB and/or NH come closest, actually.

But current skill level? They're roughly equal. Both are just a little bit below MS/MH level (MH being a bit faster, MS more consistent, etc. just the rough level). Kimi will go beyond that quite soon though, JPM might not as he is already so experienced that there's not that much left to improve upon. Some yes, but not a whole lot. Kimi on the other hand still has just 46 car races under his belt.

Personally I rate the top drivers currently:

1. MS (but not by much, and if RB keeps upstaging him he'll go below the next bunch)
2. RS, JPM, KR
3. who cares?

Kimi is a little bit behind SCHUMACHER You Finns are a riot.

[Beamer]

I never quite understood the 'Kimi is the greatest' hype. But I must admit he's doing a great job. He'll be one of the top players for years to come. BUT... I don't think he's better than JPM.

I might agree to him having just as much talent as JPM as it comes to natural speed. He's a 'cleaner' driver, not looking too spectacular but getting the job done. But to me JPM has te upper hand when it comes to racing mentality. JPM is a fighter, a winner, that, as a result of that, overdoes it sometimes, but still, better mentality.

I think their close, but because JPM is more of a fighter and more fun to watch (both on and off track) my vote goes to JPM.

[logic]

Originally posted by Mrv


1 Schumacher
2. JV
3. Fisi
4 Montoya
5 R Scumacher
6. Rubens

7. Kimi, DC, Button, Trulli, HHF, Heidfeld


Enough said. Kimi at Australia had the quicker car but didn't even make an attempt at Montoya. Actually he decided to cruise for a 3 place position. If Rubens or Ralf wouldn't have collide Kimi would have ended at best in 5th. Sorry he just has not impressed me in the races. In qualifying he has had the upper hand on Dc but then it is only DC.

Sorry, your talking about Australia race and then you say he doesn't impress you in the races! Should be in the race?

In this way I can rate Schumi: He was slower than his team mate whole weekend. An his team mate is only Rubens! And Rubens is about same level as DC so MS must be rated somewere 7th or 8ht best. Sorry but Schummeli just not impress me in the races.

[logic]

Originally posted by HSJ
Ferrari supposedly didn't want Kimi because they had their eye on Massa, that was the story. Well...

[Dazed and confused]

Originally posted by HSJ


Hey Mrv, what happened? Wasn't Massa supposed to be soooo much better than Kimi? And now that it is very nearly proven that FM is nowhere near KR in talent, you're having trouble. That's why you write what you do, don't you think others can't see that? Please...

Ferrari supposedly didn't want Kimi because they had their eye on Massa, that was the story. Well...

Mrv, You didn't aswer HSJ's question. Massa hasn't been on NH's pace as well as KR was. KR's actions (or rather lack of them) have already been thoroughly discussed in another thread. Mclaren agreed to adjust the fuel mixture of his car in order to save some fuel and attemp the pass at pits. Mclaren was seriously lacking straight line speed, which made it very difficult to attemp a pass on Montoya.

[HSJ]

BTW, concerning Kimi and Nick, those who think that KR was picked only because Nick had a contract and Kimi did not: there's a problem.

First of all, if you do just probability math you'll see that it is most likely that KR was the one they wanted in ANY case. (I've explained this before, search for my posts if it doesn't ring a bell.)

Secondly, since RD said he thinks KR will become the best ever, that means that he also thinks Kimi is better (or has more potential) than Nick, which means that again it is likely Kimi was simply picked on merit/potential over ALL other applicants.

[Rene]

Originally posted by se7en_24
Care to provide a quote of him saying that, in fact for any season?

You'll be waiting a long time davioissimo is great at spouting off, but rarely backs ups his so called facts with any real proof....we're still waiting for a list of races he was going to provide in another thread proving HHF outraced JV during his time at Williams

[Enkei]

Kimi might just outqalify both Williams in Monaco, could that be possible? :

[maclaren]

Originally posted by Enkei
Kimi might just outqalify both Williams in Monaco, could that be possible? :

It will be difficult. Only if RS or JPM falis a clear lap.

[HSJ]

Originally posted by maclaren


It will be difficult. Only if RS or JPM falis a clear lap.

Actually he could do it. Depends on a lot of things, definitely. The Mac chassis isn't really better than Williams', actually it might be a bit worse. (There's more to chassis than just aero, even if you have to insist on Newey's godlike talents--ridiculous claim btw.) However, Monaco is likely to one of the best tracks for both McL and Kimi, so I think there's a 50% chance of KR outqualifying at least one Williams. If it is wet, then KR will almost certainly outqual (assuming they have similar timing) both Williams.

[TT6]

Originally posted by HSJ
If it is wet, then KR will almost certainly outqual (assuming they have similar timing) both Williams.

Based on what? On some natural ability of Finns (like me) to drive on slippery surface? Has he already shown some special skill in rain yet or is Mac 2002 somehow superior to Williams on wet?

Just curious.

[Beamer]

Originally posted by HSJ


.... However, Monaco is likely to one of the best tracks for both McL and Kimi, so I think there's a 50% chance of KR outqualifying at least one Williams. If it is wet, then KR will almost certainly outqual (assuming they have similar timing) both Williams.

Like TT6 I was wondering what you base the assumption that KR is faster in the wet? JPM has a great track record in the wet (both in F3000 and in CART) whereas KR has hardly done a wet race?

But apart from that, why is Monaco one of the best tracks for Kimi? He had his worst qualifying ever there and wasn't all to impressive in the race either??????

[Ghostrider]

Originally posted by Beamer

Like TT6 I was wondering what you base the assumption that KR is faster in the wet? JPM has a great track record in the wet (both in F3000 and in CART) whereas KR has hardly done a wet race?

But apart from that, why is Monaco one of the best tracks for Kimi? He had his worst qualifying ever there and wasn't all to impressive in the race either??????

Guys, you should now by now that HSJ's statements about Kimi very rarely can be backed up by any substantial evidence or indications from Kimi's earlier career. HSJ just shoots from the hip.

For example HSJ has recently stated that he thinks that Kimi is very near Schumi level already, and that Button is more talented than Fisi. It just shows you that HSJ lives in fantasy land, and I bet it is a wonderful place for him.

[TT6]

Originally posted by Ghostrider


Guys, you should now by now that HSJ's statements about Kimi very rarely can be backed up by any substantial evidence or indications from Kimi's earlier career. HSJ just shoots from the hip.

For example HSJ has recently stated that he thinks that Kimi is very near Schumi level already, and that Button is more talented than Fisi. It just shows you that HSJ lives in fantasy land, and I bet it is a wonderful place for him.

Well, his reasoning ain't always so far out. However your examples may show to some that he is...

About Schumi, we don't know anymore is he really that fast or has it been contractual this far. And due to Macs unreliability we don't really know Kimis speed. No evidence however...

About Fisi and Button, it may well be like HSJ said but there's no evidence of it (which supports your wiev that HSJ shoots from the hip .) Button has been quite good this yaer and some would argue that Fisi would have had a decent drive if he would be good enough. Team chiefs know better, I think.

[xman]

In my eyes, Fisi has always been an average driver. Nothing else.

[tania_walesuk]

I honestly think Kimi would have the upper hand if his car was reliable... Kimi has a brilliant driving style and he works it very well . just a DAMN SHAME his car aint as good as he is....C'mon McLaren buck up the ideas get your car going !!!!!

[tania_walesuk]

Originally posted by xman
In my eyes, Fisi has always been an average driver. Nothing else.

More than average !!!

[Melbourne Park]

Firstly I am coloured by a practic I have had of getting excited now and then by a driver. Not many have done so, but KR excited me being so young and seeming such a natural. All the ones I've got excited about have won WDCs, but I am quite prepared to be wrong.

On a logical basis, there are different ways to view all this.

On an age basis in the Formula 1 environment, KR is ahead of JPM. I don't think JPM was even testing F1 cars at KR's age. But KR at a young age in only his second F1 year is in the third or fourth best team.

KR's still too young for myself to conclude that he can continure to improve, but he does seem to me to be improving. One example is considering what Ron Dennis said before the season, that KR would make lots of mistakes this year, but I think KR has only made one mistake so far this year. So KR's learning at a high rate IMO.

However, the age basis is just a pointer to the future. Should KR not continue to improve, he won't make it.

Now JPM is much older and has started somewhat late into racing F1. But IMO he's caught up with Ralf, in fact I think he's now better as he seems to be improving while just when I think Ralf is going to nail JPM, Ralf drives into a car in front or drives off the track or does something dissappointing. While I see JPM as getting more track smart almost race by race, so I see him still improving. So I now rate JPM at a high level, and still getting better. He's second in the points, and if not for Ferrari a likely WDC this year. But I have not seen greatness in him, yet.

Is it fair to compare the two drivers? Not at this time IMO; their age difference is too big. But we'll know a heck of a lot more in two years. If JPM has not won a WDC in two years, then its possable that KR - or someone else - could be ready to pull the rug from under JPM's potential. We'll know a lot more about KR by then as well.

Incidentally I suspect that the Aussie Mark Webber is doing a brilliant rookie job, but his age precludes him from greatness it seems to me and he is in a slow team. He showed how fast he was against Button and Co. in the Renault last year, but ability is not all that's required ... the drives just so important. I'd love to see him in a top team ...

One thing about modern racing is the enormous energy that the greats seem to attract to themselves from their teams and publicity auras. Lauda, Prost, Senna, M.Schumacher have had the ability to inspire their support teams in a tremendous way. I think now the work ethic of MS has set a new high standard. People expect CEOs to put in fantastic time and energy and to lead and inspire and communicate. I think in the machine and business world of F1 MS has pointed to the top driver requiring some of those abilities. Natural ability is no longer enough, the game has changed. If that's the case, are JPM or KR the types who can bring those features into a team? KR's too young to do so. I don't know yet about JPM. Although they are both fine F1 drivers, I take most interest in watching for the occassional possability of a Tiger Woods strolling onto the course ... I am not sure if either JPM or KR can be like Tiger, and dominant F1. But they've both got some time to do so.

[Rene]

Originally posted by TT6


Well, his reasoning ain't always so far out. However your examples may show to some that he is...

About Schumi, we don't know anymore is he really that fast or has it been contractual this far. And due to Macs unreliability we don't really know Kimis speed. No evidence however...

About Fisi and Button, it may well be like HSJ said but there's no evidence of it (which supports your wiev that HSJ shoots from the hip .) Button has been quite good this yaer and some would argue that Fisi would have had a decent drive if he would be good enough. Team chiefs know better, I think.

Because Button had 2 good races (count 'em up...and you'll find its 2) you think he compares to Fisis, and his almost 100 Grand Prix?? Fisi absolutely destroyed Button last year, same machinery, and Button was made to look like his career was over. Every 'great' driver of his generation has been able to at least compete with their experienced team mate their first years in F1...look to the performances of Prost, Senna, Schumacher (M) and Villeneuve in their first year, and you will see they performed much better visa vie their team mates than did button, eventhough button had a year of F1 under his belt....HSJ's assertion that Button is near the top of the driver skill treee shows how little he has watched F1 since he gets caught up in the hype of one race wonderism.

No one serious about F1 ranks Button higher than Fisi....

[jimmy mike]

Originally posted by Mrv


1 Schumacher
2. JV
3. Fisi
4 Montoya
5 R Scumacher
6. Rubens

7. Kimi, DC, Button, Trulli, HHF, Heidfeld

So where is Oliver Panis?

If JV is in second place, then Panis must be in third place. But i can't see Panis in your list.

[Ricardo F1]

Originally posted by Mrv


1 Schumacher
2. JV
3. Fisi
4 Montoya
5 R Scumacher
6. Rubens

7. Kimi, DC, Button, Trulli, HHF, Heidfeld

Blimey I only just found this. hang on . . .



Sorry, just wiping away tears . . .

[dynamic]

last year montoya was unlucky and his car unreliable and he got blamed for that but nobody dares to do the same to kimi (personally i think its stupid to blaim a driver for the failures).

JPM had more points last season than kimi in a much more reliable car and more stable and kimi was better now jpm has more points in a more stable and more reliable car and kimi is still better. There have been no prove of kimis quality or most of the other drivers and for all we know rosset could be the best ever f1 driver.


Comparin them is just plain stupid especially if the kimi fans wont look at the only thing we can look at the points.

[Rene]

Mrv don't let the jokers slag you, I agree 100% with your list...