32 replies to this topic

[bobbo]

As far as I can figure out, Cooper's last appearance in F1 was at the 1969 Monaco GP driven by Vic Elford (T86b).

My questions:

Were any other later entries considered by Cooper or anyone? If so, where & when?

Did Cooper ever consider using the Cosworth DFV?

What machines did Cooper build after leaving F1?

I confess that I have very little knowledge of the last years of Cooper.

Bobbo

[Rob29]

An F5000 car(T90) was built in 69. Seems to have first raced at Brands Hatch on 28.09.69,driven by one C.Warwick-Drake-Chevrolet V8-4991cc-colour -Red.Retired in both heats.

[David McKinney]

The Cooper driver later dropped the 'Warwick' bit and as Chris Drake became one of the best-known British historic drivers. I think he's on the list for Pau this weekend

[Allen Brown]

There were three T90s, the last cars to be produced by Cooper. Let's see if this works:

[b]Race					 Date		  T90 F1C/1-68		  T90 F1C/2-69	  T90 F1C/3-69	  [/b]

Badger "200"			 20/07/1969											Rehl 7			

Schaefer GP			  02/08/1969											Rehl 9			

Lime Rock GP			 01/09/1969											Rehl 7			

Le Circuit Continental   07/09/1969											Rehl C			

Guards F5000			 28/09/1969	Warwick-Drake DSQ										 

ARRC					 29/11/1969											Rehl 1			

Riverside GP			 19/04/1970											Rehl R			

Guards F5000			 09/08/1970						  Hawtin DNS						  

Guards F5000			 15/08/1970						  Hawtin 9							

Gold Cup				 22/08/1970						  Hawtin DNS						  

Guards F5000			 31/08/1970						  Hawtin R							

Guards F5000			 27/09/1970						  Hawtin R							

Rothmans F5000		   15/05/1971						  Hawtin R							

Rothmans F5000		   30/05/1971						  Hawtin DNQ						  

Rothmans F5000		   01/08/1971						  Hawtin R							

Rothmans F5000		   14/08/1971						  Hawtin 11						   

Gold Cup				 22/08/1971						  Hawtin DNS						  

Rothmans F5000		   22/08/1971						  Hawtin DNS						  

Rothmans F5000		   30/08/1971						  Hawtin 7							

Rothmans F5000		   12/09/1971						  Hawtin R							

Rothmans F5000		   18/09/1971						  Hawtin C

So the last to race was Peter Hawtin's, wrecked in his fatal accident in 1971. Peter Rehl's car may have raced in in minor SCCA racing in the US. Warwick-Drake's car disappeared into minor racing very quickly.

See also http://www.oldracing....asp?TypeID=T90.

Allen

[Vitesse2]

Hmmm .... Hodges A-Z says there were only two T90s, which were sold with the rest of the Cooper racing equipment in June 1969, although he doesn't seem to be aware of the Rehl car.

And to answer Bobbo's original question - no DFV, but there were moves to put an Alfa Romeo V8 engine in a T86, which would have been the T86C. I think this car was later completed as an F5000. There were also plans for an Alfa-powered T91, but I don't know how far those got. The Alfa engine ended up in the McLaren M7D and M14D in 1970.

[Rainer Nyberg]

John Cooper has told that he wanted to honour his deep connections with BMC to ever seriously consider Ford power. (Remember that this during the Mini Cooper era, and his Formula Juniors and Formula 3 cars were also BMC-powered)

He tried to persuade BMC to build him a F1-motor for him to use, and according to Cooper, a such unit was actually built and tested but never raced. Maybe someone has some details about this?

[dmj]

BMC F1 motor? Now THAT would be an interesting thing to see...

[Roger Clark]

Originally posted by dmj
BMC F1 motor? Now THAT would be an interesting thing to see...

I think it was in 1968 that BMC merged with Jaguar who owned Coventry Climax.

[Allen Brown]

Originally posted by Vitesse2
Hmmm .... Hodges A-Z says there were only two T90s, which were sold with the rest of the Cooper racing equipment in June 1969, although he doesn't seem to be aware of the Rehl car.

So he does. Hodges doesn't cover F5000 elsewhere in A-Z so I'm surprised he had a shot at the T90. He's right that there were two at the racing car show but one of the T90s, oddly the middle one, appears to have been built from an unused T86B tub. IIRC, the Rehl car and the Warwick-Drake car were the ones at the show. Hawtin's was, I think, the one that looked like a T86B.

Cooper records stop before the T90 so my total of three is based entirely on having found three.

Allen

[dmj]

Originally posted by Roger Clark


I think it was in 1968 that BMC merged with Jaguar who owned Coventry Climax.

Ah, then it makes sense...

[Rupertlt1]

You might like these 1969 pics of the Rehl Cooper:

 

https://revslib.stan...log/tk478hk6915

 

https://revslib.stan...log/nv374zs2850

 

https://revslib.stan...log/dc071bk1327

 

RGDS RLT

Edited by Rupertlt1, 03 November 2015 - 14:44.

[HistoryFan]

I never understand why Cooper left F1.

[john winfield]

http://www.ebay.co.u...o0AAOSwI-BWJUvC

 

This'll tell you HF. 

[retriever]

http://www.ebay.co.u...o0AAOSwI-BWJUvC

 

This'll tell you HF. 

 

Good book - that author shows promise.

[RA Historian]

I never understand why Cooper left F1.

Simple. Same as with most teams that leave F-1. No money.

[Ray Bell]

Or were they the first to leave because there was no engine?

[Paul Hamilton]

Hmmm .... Hodges A-Z says there were only two T90s, which were sold with the rest of the Cooper racing equipment in June 1969, although he doesn't seem to be aware of the Rehl car.

And to answer Bobbo's original question - no DFV, but there were moves to put an Alfa Romeo V8 engine in a T86, which would have been the T86C. I think this car was later completed as an F5000. There were also plans for an Alfa-powered T91, but I don't know how far those got. The Alfa engine ended up in the McLaren M7D and M14D in 1970.

 

The Cooper Alfa Romeo (T86C - c/n F1/3/68) was built and tested but never raced.  More recently it has been rebuilt for use in historic events and appeared at Monaco a few years ago. 

[D28]

In the bible on this subject  Cooper Cars, (see links above), Doug Nye writes that in late 1968 plans were laid to obtain Cosworth-Ford power for 1969,."regardless of Mini-Cooper manufacturing sensibilities". This never materialized, nor did sponsorship from, Wilkinson Sword. The 1969 cars continued with the BRM engines. Faced with diminishing results and major .cost escalation due to lack of sponsors, The Chipstead owners made the business decision to fold. After winning 4 world titles just 9 years ago, they were uninterested in simple filling the grid, or as they put it racing in "a half-hearted manner".

.

[BRG]

After winning 4 world titles just 9 years ago, they were uninterested in simple filling the grid, or as they put it racing in "a half-hearted manner".

 

Now I see where Red Bull got their inspiration....

[Doug Nye]

Red Bull F1 - for all its size and recent stature - hasn't got the merest fraction of the character, charm and (to be honest) engagingly naive quality of the Cooper Car Company in period... After all, Cooper turned agricultural engineering into a world-beating art form, not in just one motor racing discipline, but in several.   

 

DCN

[Michael Ferner]

Don't knock Dietrich Mateschitz (sp?), he turned one foul tasting soft drink into an horrible looking F1 car...

[Doug Nye]

Yes - funny that isn't it, to me Red Bull tastes utterly foul - pretty much like inhaling other people's Marlboro or Camel (so well-named) tobacco smoke...

 

DCN

[DogEarred]

The Red Bull Technology buildings in Milton Keynes have (or had), 4 feet high, refrigerated replicas of the drinks can placed in various places. Free samples of this foul, cough mixture/cherry tasting beverage are available within to all employees.

 

Maybe it is to encourage people to stay awake during the many hours of overtime they 'volunteer' to work.....

[MDixon]

The Cooper Alfa Romeo (T86C - c/n F1/3/68) was built and tested but never raced.  More recently it has been rebuilt for use in historic events and appeared at Monaco a few years ago. 

When doing some research, I picked up a lot of info on T86C

T86C (F1/3/68) was bought as a chassis from the Cooper works and turned into a formula 5000 entrant by Fred Place in Oxfordshire. He had previously raced a succession of Coopers including the ex Jackie Stewart F3 car.

Fitted with a Boss Mustang engine and a used gearbox purchased from Ken Tyrell,the car was raced in the 1970 F5000 series driven by Fred Place and his engineer John Jackson.

The car was stolen early in 1971 and returned by the police several months later having been found in a garage in South London. It was sold and then it then passed through a few owners, eventually arriving in the USA, although never raced. Purchased by Ron Maydon and returned to the UK, who replaced the Alfa Romeo engine spec. I've not seen it on a track for a while now.

There was some question of the authenticity of the chassis, but Fred Place confirmed it was all correct when he spent time with Ron Maydon at Magny Cours.

I've seen quite a lot of photos from 1969/70, the scale model advertised as the F1 Bianchi car appears to be the F5000 layout with the decals used at Silverstone in 1970.

[HistoryFan]

why did the alfa romeo deal failed?

[Charlieman]

why did the alfa romeo deal failed?

What is the name of that Abba song? "Money, money, money" and Cooper didn't have any.

[Doug Nye]

     

 

DCN

[Tom Glowacki]

why did the alfa romeo deal failed?

For the same reasons as the Alfa deals with McLaren, March, and Brabham?

[Catalina Park]

I believe there was a problem with the mounting of the Alfa engine. As soon as you bolted it in a chassis the car went slower.

[JBaxter]

You might like these 1969 pics of the Rehl Cooper:

 

https://revslib.stan...log/tk478hk6915

 

https://revslib.stan...log/nv374zs2850

 

https://revslib.stan...log/dc071bk1327

 

RGDS RLT

Would sure love to see these pictures or any pictures of the Rehl Cooper T90.  Maybe the links are old and dont work now? 

I think there must have been lots of photographers taking snaps of the dishy model at that 69 Race car show, where the Rehl car was the yellow one, Vegantune chevy engine, and the red car became the Chris Warwick-Drake car with Mathwell tuned Chevy.  Thankyou!

[Doug Nye]

Just log on to the Revs Digital Library site... 

 

https://library.revs...te.org/digital/

 

...and type 'Rehl Cooper' into the search facility.  There is much to see.

 

Incidentally, this magnificent resource has recently revised its operation by "implementing a discount code system which now allows enquirers to order items directly through the e-commerce system and benefit from an appropriate discount, of up to 100%".

 

For study, access is instant and free - while to acquire a high-res image scan for research, publication or printing, Revs DigiLib has an on-line purchase mechanism.  I must declare an interest...I am involved 'professionally' (but - despite that - the enthusiast-resource itself is no less truly magnificent).

 

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 18 January 2021 - 10:23.

[JBaxter]

Wow, was an amazing facility!  Some great pictures, thankyou for the tip.   Anymore pictures of the two Coopers red and yellow, at the 69 racing car show would be appreciated.  Especially for the yellow car detail not the model draped over them, honest!!

[raceannouncer2003]

JBaxter

 

I sent you a private message via the forum with Rupert Lloyd Thomas' email.  Did you get that ?

 

Vince H.