11 replies to this topic

[racer69]

I own both the video 'Incar 956' and the game 'Grand Prix Legends', and i was just wondering what the changes were on the old track between 1967 and 1983, particularly on the front part of the circuit were the main straight is. In GPL we have a long straight which goes round a couple of corners and comes back along behind the pits, but on the video the start is completely different. Any help is aprreciated,
Thanks

[Gil Bouffard]

I know that the old circuit ran down to the Sudkurve and back behind the pits in 1982-82. I've never seen Incar 956, but I have to assume that it was made after the Ring was rebuilt.

Checking an old EFDA News from September 1984 shows a map the "New," Nurburgring. My guess is that the 956 ran on the shorter "New," circuit.

Gil

[2F-001]

The InCar 956 vid was made at the time the ''new'' (current) Grand Prix circuit was being built (sometimes, disparagingly called the Ersatzring). This built over the two parallel straights either side of the pits and the the South curve (the ''roundabout'' shaped bit). I would estimate that South curve was roughly on the site of the new GP first corner (''Castrol''?).
I believe Hoherain was added in time for 1000kms of 1967. Had my first proper go at GPL last week and although I ''know'' (sort of) the NS from my visits, I don't think I managed an entire lap, so don't recall that part on the sim.

Fortunately I use an Apple Mac and GPL only runs on PC - otherwise my life would be consumed by GPL!!

Somewhere I have a list of changes to the Ring; the jump at Brunchen for eg; a wee bit more tarmac at Breidscheid (?? not sure about that); I'll have to see if I can find it. The actual shape of the road that's left is virtually unchanged.

[2F-001]

racer69 -
forgot to say that if you go ''straight on'' at the final corner in ''InCar 956'' instead of making the righthand 90degree bend, you end up on the pitstraight of the new GP track - which is roughly where the start and finish straight in GPL is. (The real circuits can still be used this way - the two circuits combined - as indeed they are sometimes for private trackdays and the annual 24-hour race (just a couple of weeks away!) so as to provide large enough pits, paddock facilities etc.
After the straight behind the pits in GPL, the lefthander takes you onto the current Nordschleife near the point where Derek Bell tells us his start/finish line is.

[mat1]

Originally posted by 2F-001


Somewhere I have a list of changes to the Ring; the jump at Brunchen for eg; a wee bit more tarmac at Breidscheid (?? not sure about that); I'll have to see if I can find it. The actual shape of the road that's left is virtually unchanged.

That would be very interesting. I know the present NS pretty well, but I always look with interest and sometimes bewilderment at older photographs because of the changes. For example the Brunnchen section is so different.

mat1

[Alien]

Racer69,

I was thinking the same thing lately, well i´ve been watching a few videos that may be of some use. Here you can download some laps on the modern ring, i found this link a couple of days ago, both of these laps cover the ring on a Porsche RUF-CTR (twin turbo, 550 hp ). It was posted here on the Nostalgia forum, it´s good.

http://www.sjrixon.clara.net/

In http://www.seasonf1.com/ there is another old video in the epoca section, i downloaded all parts and it´s excellent, it even mention some bumps and stuff. It´s parts of an actual 1967 lap.

I think this was the big change (1970)

For 1970 the German Grand Prix took up temporary residence at Hockenheim as the 'Ring underwent serious modification. Several corners were re-profiled, bumps were evened out and miles of Armco barriers were used to line the roads.

from: http://8w.forix.com/ring.html


AFAIK, places like Flugplatz have been leveled off to make them less dangerous, the jump was a lot scarier back in 1967. The whole resurfacing may have changed a few dips and that kind of stuff. karrousel and little karrousel seem like the same. But for specific changes you´d have to look at the videos. GPL can give you an idea of where you are but it´s impossible to watch details.

As for yor question, the main straight now seems to be used by the new GP circuit the start is now a connection between the 3 km straight before the pits and the hatxenbach section. In other words the pit straight and the back of the pits straight is gone. When you finish the back straight of the pits in GPL you can see to your right that there is a blocked road, that must be the connection. In 1967 some of the circuit was not being used but as it says on ahistory page it was never meant to. The sudschleife was a section for smaller cars, and shorter races that shared the same front and back straight.

take a look at this: http://www.nurburgri...udschleife.html

[racer69]

Does anyone know of a map that exists that shows how everything relates to eachother, how the current GP track fits in with the position of the original track and so on.

So pretty much the only major difference between the '67 & '83 track is that the straights surrounding the pits were cut out, what year did that happen, and were new pits constructed on the new pit straight? and i can now see why there is a kerb running through the out field of the final turn on the GP track, but after the current pits, where do they rejoin the Nordschleife. And what exactly was the Sudschliefe, how much shorter was it. ALot of questions i know, but just really interested

[Alien]

Originally posted by racer69
Does anyone know of a map that exists that shows how everything relates to eachother, how the current GP track fits in with the position of the original track and so on.

So pretty much the only major difference between the '67 & '83 track is that the straights surrounding the pits were cut out, what year did that happen, and were new pits constructed on the new pit straight? and i can now see why there is a kerb running through the out field of the final turn on the GP track, but after the current pits, where do they rejoin the Nordschleife. And what exactly was the Sudschliefe, how much shorter was it. ALot of questions i know, but just really interested

Ive seen that map, actually the main pit straight right now is kind of like the old pit straight back then. The last corner of the new nurburgring actually bends right before the last bend of the old circuit and takes on the pit staright. Well kind off, lets try it like this, go to this satellite photo:

http://www.nurburgri...ellite_pic.html

At the bottom, at the right side of the .org you´ll see the last turn of the new circuit, right below hatzenbach and t13.

About the sudschliefe:

From the very beginning, the Nürburgring was an enormous and ambitious project. It was intended to be used as a single 17.6 mile circuit that could also be split into two sections. The Südschleife was a short 4.8 mile section designed for testing and for club racing while the Nordschleife -- all 14.2 miles of it -- was intended to be showcase of German talent and engineering supremacy.

If you want a complete map of the old ring look here: http://www.oppositel...e.co.uk/map.gif

Actually the sudschleife connected at the loop at the end of the pit straight in the old nurburgring. It´s pretty abandoned right now, but i guess it has pieces of the original tarmac of the ring!!!!!!

[Alien]

Here found a map, the new circuit and the old circuit:

http://www.silhouet....s/nurburgr.html

[David McKinney]

That's not the old circuit, Alien. It's the current Nordschleif
(Yes, I know it's confusing - that's what this thread is all about )

[Alien]

Originally posted by David McKinney
That's not the old circuit, Alien. It's the current Nordschleif
(Yes, I know it's confusing - that's what this thread is all about )

Ok, ok, it´s a map of the nordschleif and the position of the new circuit relative to it.

[C F Eick]

Originally posted by 2F-001
I believe Hoherain was added in time for 1000kms of 1967.

That´s right, the Hohenrain chicane was added in 1967 and drastically reduced speeds through that section. In 1957 Fangio sweeped through there at 230-235 km/h, putting 2 wheels on the grass on the exit, on his magnificent 9.17,4 min lap. Today it's a 3rd gear chicane, possibly 2nd depending on car and gear ratio. I guess they wanted to reduce the speed entering the start/finish straight, and the pit entrance speed as well.

/Christian