47 replies to this topic

[nmansellfan]

Hi, does anyone know what the top speed record for a Grand Prix car is?
Its wierd that this sport is all about speed, yet you rarely hear figures mentioned. As far as i know, Gerhard Berger held it at Monza in '86 during qualifying, 217 mph or thereabouts but im sure its been bettered in 16 years.

What with Hockenheim being turned into a club circuit for this year's GP, opportunities for 200mph plus racing are rapidly reducing...

[Rainer Nyberg]

It must be at lest pretty near 217 probably higher.


A Lap of Hockenheim - West McLaren Mercedes third driver Alexander Wurz

"Crossing the start-finish line at Hockenheim you reach 183mph / 296kph in sixth gear as you accelerate along the short straight. Reaching the fast right-hander of Nord Kurve, your speed reduces to take the corner at 119mph / 193kph in fourth gear. On the exit you go hard over the curbs and quickly move up through the gears, driving along the longest straight on the track. The straight is taken at full throttle, reaching some 215mph / 344kph in seventh gear before braking hard for the right-left flick of the Jim Clark Kurve chicane."

"You experience forces of up to 4.5G as you drop from the top speed on the track to 60mph / 96kph in second gear. This is followed by a shorter straight that sweeps you gently to the right, reaching 210mph / 336kph in seventh gear leading you into the second chicane, the Ost Kurve. The slowest of the chicanes, the sharp right-left Ost Kurve is taken at 50mph / 80kph in second gear. Exiting the chicane the long, fast right-hander of turn seven takes you onto the first of the two back straights, where you reach 212mph / 340kph in seventh gear on the approach to the Ayrton Senna Kurve. Again hard on the brakes, the left-right chicane slows you to 70mph / 112kph in second gear. You then push hard on the throttle as you accelerate along the final straight, reaching a speed of 205mph / 328kph in seventh gear as you burst out of the forest into the Stadium Complex. The sharp right Agip Kurve that leads you into the Complex is taken at 110mph / 176kph in fourth gear, and is immediately followed by the Sachs Kurve. Shifting down into second gear you take the long, left-hand hairpin at 60mph / 96kph. A short burst on the throttle, reaching 140mph / 225kph in third gear, takes you into the final section of the Stadium Complex, the Süd Kurve. This double apex right hand hairpin is negotiated at 95mph / 152kph in third gear and leads you back onto the start-finish straight."

[scheivlak]

Last year Jean Alesi did 363.4 km/h during the Italian GP, and I vaguely remember somebody (Coulthard?) doing 366 slipsteaming in Hockenheim 2000

[Earthling]

DC did a 361 i believe, but my memory isnt clear. I just know that Alesi's was the fastest.

[stevew]

Going from memory here, but I thought one of the McLarens touched 220mph at Monza 2-3 years back...

[ray b]

old stuff was faster
auto-union pre-war GP based record cars
ran over 240 mph [not in a race or in race trim]
indy carts about same on 230 plus lap for top speed
run the F-1 cars on the real indy track [oval]and lets see whos fastest NOW

[Jhope]

I think Juan Pablo Montoya ran close to the 227mph mark last year in Hockenheim. One thing that did surprise me though, was the speed of the Williams last year on Montreal's Casino Straight, prior to the start/finish straight. I think they reached 338km/h in less than 1km.

[Jhope]

Originally posted by ray b
old stuff was faster
auto-union pre-war GP based record cars
ran over 240 mph [not in a race or in race trim]
indy carts about same on 230 plus lap for top speed
run the F-1 cars on the real indy track [oval]and lets see whos fastest NOW

What was the displacement, and how many cylinders did the Auto Union cars have? surely not limited to 10 cylinders and a 3000cc capacity?

[jondoe955]

Didn't Schummi say, on his US TV interview last month, that the top speed of an F1 car was 310 MPH - if it was set up for top speed? That's pushing a lot of air!

[Wolf]

Originally posted by Jhope

What was the displacement, and how many cylinders did the Auto Union cars have? surely not limited to 10 cylinders and a 3000cc capacity?

But, surely, not being held down by stupid tech regulations and sterile environment cannot be held against them? Those were GP cars, and GP racing was somewhere along the line replaced by F1 show, so the claim about A-U speed is valid, IMHO.

[Jhope]

I never said it wasn't valid, I was just asking if they werwe tied down by tech regulation like the ones we see these days.

[dretceterini]

Engine displacement isn't everything. The 30's motors only could turn about 5000 rpm, and motors today are turning 18000! The motors today are putting out nearly double the power even without the superchargers and half the displacement. The 240 mph speeds back in the 30s were done on large "oval" banked tracks such as Avus...I still rather someone give me a ride in a 12c Alfa, a W series Mercedes or an Auto Union than a "modern" F1...

[ray b]

Originally posted by Jhope

What was the displacement, and how many cylinders did the Auto Union cars have? surely not limited to 10 cylinders and a 3000cc capacity?

v16 4.x to over 5L runing on nitro %+godknows what fuel + supercharged but 1930's teck and tyres!!!! brave very brave men
think some runs were made on the then new auto-bons so are there street records keap??
later cars in 38-9 were 3L but supercharged
wonder what modern boys could do without wings IF they could stay on a real road, 260-70??

[Jhope]

Interesting statistics there ray b. It's tempting me to go do more research on these cars.

[FEV]

Originally posted by Jhope
Interesting statistics there ray b. It's tempting me to go do more research on these cars.

Then, Leif's unique site would be your best choice on the net : http://www.kolumbus....llman/index.htm !

[Vitesse2]

In 1937 Bernd Rosemeyer achieved 406.32km/h = 253.95mph in a 6-litre Auto Union streamliner. He returned to the same Autobahn early in 1938, recording 429.32km/h = 268.7mph, just warming the car up on a frosty morning. On the return run the car went out of control at an estimated 430km/h = 270mph and crashed. Rosemeyer was thrown out and killed , in his attempt to better the mark of 432.6km/h = 270.4mph set by Caracciola's Mercedes Benz.

Although these were streamlined specials, they were close relations of the GP cars.

[Ross Stonefeld]

From the FIA...

The highest straight line speed recorded during a Grand Prix in the 2000 season was set by David Coulthard (McLaren-Mercedes), at 361.8 km/h (221.1 mph), during the Italian Grand Prix.

[Wolf]

Originally posted by Jhope
I never said it wasn't valid, I was just asking if they werwe tied down by tech regulation like the ones we see these days.

Then I'm sorry for reading it into Your post (call it 'creative reading' . I beg Your pardon, Jhope.

[lynmeredith]

Originally posted by Earthling
DC did a 361 i believe, but my memory isnt clear. I just know that Alesi's was the fastest.

You sure that wasn't a spin? (Hey, my first smiley)

LDM

[Newtown]

Originally posted by jondoe955
Didn't Schummi say, on his US TV interview last month, that the top speed of an F1 car was 310 MPH - if it was set up for top speed? That's pushing a lot of air!

Here is the quote:

“If you would go for maximum speed, you would probably go beyond 500 if you wanted,”

That's 500 MPH !!!!! That's insane. Too bad we won't see too many races in the future that have the cars going comfortably over 200.

[MONTOYASPEED]

Originally posted by Newtown
Here is the quote:

“If you would go for maximum speed, you would probably go beyond 500 if you wanted,”

That's 500 MPH !!!!! That's insane. Too bad we won't see too many races in the future that have the cars going comfortably over 200.

Duh! He meant Km/Hr! Why would a F1 driver talk in MPH?

[ray b]

Originally posted by MONTOYASPEED


Duh! He meant Km/Hr! Why would a F1 driver talk in MPH?

well very top speeds as in land speed records are a brit[inc empire] and USA thing only mosty and we use mph not klicks but unless mike adds a turbo and nitro he willnever see 500 k or mph other than in a jet plane!!

[Newtown]

Originally posted by MONTOYASPEED


Duh! He meant Km/Hr! Why would a F1 driver talk in MPH?

During the interview, done in the states, the interviewer says "The cars go around the track at speeds of 200 mph. The next line is Schumacher talking about going 500. I'll admit you're probably right in that he was talking in kph, but any american (I'm Canadian BTW and we use kph) would take 500 as being mph.

[MONTOYASPEED]

Originally posted by Newtown


During the interview, done in the states, the interviewer says "The cars go around the track at speeds of 200 mph. The next line is Schumacher talking about going 500. I'll admit you're probably right in that he was talking in kph, but any american (I'm Canadian BTW and we use kph) would take 500 as being mph.

He says 500 and then the interviewer says it is about 310 MPH.

[Newtown]

I found out about the "500" from the website, so I guess they didn't fully transcribe the interview. Not my fault.

[MONTOYASPEED]

Originally posted by Newtown
I found out about the "500" from the website, so I guess they didn't fully transcribe the interview. Not my fault.

No problem.

[Flying Panda]

It has to be 500 kp/h. Becasue that in itself is unbelieveable, but 800 kp/h (500MPH), no way is that possible in a standard F1 car.

[Roger Clark]

The pre-war GErman cars did over 270mph on about 700 bhp in record breaking trim. A modern F1 car with close to 900 bhp should be able to achieve 300 mph with close to 900 bhp and considerable less frontal area. It would, of course depend mainly on the aerodynamic configuration.

[Schummy]

It depends on what we call "F1 car", but I'm pretty sure a "modified" F1 car can reach near 500 kph: eliminates most of downforce stuff, semi closed wheels, very long gear ratio and, obviously a very long straight or quasi-straight. Of course, I'm not speaking about a whole new vehicle with just F1 engine

CART cars does well above 400 kph peak speed (about 240mph average lap in superovals) with open wheels and some aero restrictions (to contain speed). GP 500cc two strokes bikes (or now ¿1000cc? four strokes) do peak speeds similar to F1 in same or similar tracks, even if reduced tyre grip makes them a slower entry in the straights, and earlier braking (shortening the effective length of the straight), but their aero resistance is a lot lower, pointing at the importance of aero in peak speed.

[Geza Sury]

Just a quick note: The car covers exactly 100 meters per second at 360 km/h!

[Ferrari_F1_fan_2001]

Originally posted by Geza Sury
Just a quick note: The car covers exactly 100 meters per second at 360 km/h!

cool, i was thinking along those lines too, thats about 230MPH ish right? 1.6 km/h = 1mph (if i recall correctly, same as in distance 1mile = 1.6 KM)

i can run 100mph in 12.seconds

so divide 360 by 12.8 = 28.125 kmh i can run at (when i cross the line :D:D) in miles an hour i have a top speed of 17.6mph, i know i cant run any faster than that coz i was winded when i crossed the line hehe


VROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM

[Rainer Nyberg]

I agree Roger, back in 1988 A.J. Foyt ran 257mph (413km/h) with the Oldsmobile Aerotech which was more-or-less a faired-in Indycar. I think it was based on a March tub. A current F1 could be made much smaller than that car. 300 mph (483km/h) should be possible.

[ray b]

AJ's OLDS was a quad 4 cyl 4 valve 2+ L motor + a turbo + custom tricks
or kinda 1/2 of v8 indy motor old/chevy/N*

what is current wheel driven nonjet/rocket record for mph ??[summers bro get it yet??]

what is the street/road record, non saltflat/drylake record for mph??

[FucF1]

In 1999/2000 (I forget which) a rider was clocked at over 200mph on the main straight of the Northwest 200 circuit in Northern Ireland.

Thats 200mph on a motorbike on ordainary public roads.

And people say F1 is dangerous....

[dmj]

Originally posted by Vitesse2
In 1937 Bernd Rosemeyer achieved 406.32km/h = 253.95mph in a 6-litre Auto Union streamliner. He returned to the same Autobahn early in 1938, recording 429.32km/h = 268.7mph, just warming the car up on a frosty morning. On the return run the car went out of control at an estimated 430km/h = 270mph and crashed. Rosemeyer was thrown out and killed , in his attempt to better the mark of 432.6km/h = 270.4mph set by Caracciola's Mercedes Benz.

Although these were streamlined specials, they were close relations of the GP cars.

Is that Caracciola's speed still fastest one ever set on a public road?

[Ray Bell]

Rosemeyer, did you say?

This is him, is it not...

[Vitesse2]

Ray - that's a very odd picture! Notice how all the people are apparently leaning forward DOWN the bank? And what looks like a milepost at extreme right is also at roughly the same angle as the people! The camera has obviously been held at an angle to give the impression the road was flatter than it was in reality. Hmmm....

[Zoe]

I have the impression that the camera was moved to follow the car; the vertical shutter movement then leads to the distortion of the background.

It is basically the same effect that lead to the forward slanted images of race cars in the early years of last century.

Zoe

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Vitesse2
Ray - that's a very odd picture! Notice how all the people are apparently leaning forward DOWN the bank? And what looks like a milepost at extreme right is also at roughly the same angle as the people! The camera has obviously been held at an angle to give the impression the road was flatter than it was in reality. Hmmm....

Well, for my part, I know nothing about the pic other than that the AU rep in Australia had it among his goods and chattels at the outbreak of the war. Must have been a publicity shot.

[redfiveoz]

Got to agree with Zoe. The upper surface of the mile marker (?) adjacent to the mile post RHS would appear perpendicular to the vertical plane of the mile post if the camera had simply been tilted. If you visualise tilting the photo to the right, the "marker" is orientated towards the heavens - highly unusual.
Redfiveoz

[stevew]

Originally posted by Vitesse2
Ray - that's a very odd picture! Notice how all the people are apparently leaning forward DOWN the bank? And what looks like a milepost at extreme right is also at roughly the same angle as the people! The camera has obviously been held at an angle to give the impression the road was flatter than it was in reality. Hmmm....

Camera lenses and "high-speed" photography weren't very good in those days...

[Barry Lake]

To spare me the time of re-reading this entire thread, can someone please tell me if there was a final answer on the fastest speed at which an F1 car has been timed during a race?

[AlesiUK]

an old thread i know,but i would like to know the difintive answer?

what about the BMW in the early eighties?didnt it have over 1500bhp?to much to record on the dyno i think!

surely that wouldve been quicker than todays cars?

[Doug Nye]

There should be no mystery about the 'leaning people' photograph - it was plainly a panned photo taken with a focal plane shutter camera in which the exposure slit moves vertically, thereby exposing the verticals over a slightly extended time period. The horizontal sweep - panning - of the camera creates the offset between that section of the vertical first captured on film and the later sections as the shutter opening flashes through its range. The car looks OK since its position relative to the panning camera lens is relatively static.

Remember the classical 'leaning forward wheels' pictures? Same effect, only with greater relative movement on the car rather than the background as here in a panned shot.

DCN

[Earthling]

Originally posted by Barry Lake
To spare me the time of re-reading this entire thread, can someone please tell me if there was a final answer on the fastest speed at which an F1 car has been timed during a race?

Jean Alesi: 363.4 km/h during the Italian GP 2001

[fines]

Originally posted by Rainer Nyberg
A Lap of Hockenheim - West McLaren Mercedes third driver Alexander Wurz

"(Snip) On the exit you go hard over the curbs and quickly move up through the gears (snip) in seventh gear before braking hard (snip) in second gear. This is followed by a shorter straight (snip) in seventh gear leading you into the second chicane (snip) in second gear. Exiting the chicane (snip) in seventh gear (snip) Again hard on the brakes (snip) in second gear. You then push hard on the throttle (snip) in seventh gear (snip)"

Can somebody PLEASE explain to me again why they're sorry to see this part of the circuit go????

[Barry Lake]

Thanks Earthling (I thought only aliens from outer space got to say that!)

[wingsbgone]

ray b-

Current wheel-driven LSR is 458.4 MPH (Vesco & Co. using a turbine for power), or 427.8, or 410..... more info here: http://www.ugofadini.com/lsrwd.html But 768+MPH is, and will be for MANY years, the granddaddy of 'em all.
I have no idea about a closed road record, though I doubt these are still sanctioned (at least outright top speed runs) nor higher than the closed course record (which is???). And then there's the water speed record of 300+.

G'night.