28 replies to this topic

[Timstr11]

Hi huys,
I am new here, well sort of. Been here before a few years ago.

I found the smoking Mclaren very intriguing. Apparently the problem was cured via telemetry (see quote from Ron on Davids problem). What do you guys think was the cause of the smoking engine and how was it curable via their bi-directional telemetry?

Taken from F1Racing.net

Team Chief Ron Dennis commented, "A tactical race for David and the entire team which was particularly pleasurable as we were able to resolve David’s only problem utilising our telemetry systems. We were a little surprised with Michael Schumacher’s initial pace following his pitstop, which triggered us to make an earlier stop than scheduled. A great result, which not only increases our Monaco race wins to 12 but also demonstrates the depth and commitment that we have to winning. Kimi drove a disciplined race, which with the attrition that is normal for Monaco could have given him strong points finish. Barrichello’s mistake is just one of those racing incidents which cost both of them dearly. That said it’s been a tremendous result for the team and a result well deserved."

[Hellenic tifosi]

I think that there was a problem with the oil pump suplying the engine with an excessive amount of oil, which found it's way inside the cylinders. The team made use of the auxilliary oil tank and managed to fix the problem with the pump AFAIK.

[Schummy]

I think Dennis was tasteful in his commentary. I'm glad to hear the old Ron again (of course, winning helps ;) )

[david_martin]

The smoke certainly looked like oil pressure surge to my eyes, so the explanation that they changed something in the oil circuit by two way telemetry certainly seems plausible.

[Zoe]

Norbert Haug commented that they had a problem with a magnetic valve in the extra oil tank, which didn't open and close correctly and thus had drops of oil overspill apparently into the exhaust (don't ask me how it gets into the exhaust). Anyway, they played around with it a little bit and it sort of fixed itself.

Zoe

[MattC]

From another site:

Team boss Ron Dennis explained how the team had solved the problem.
He said: "We had a problem with the oil transfer tank. It was transferring a bit too much but we were able to turn it down and after that it wasn’t a problem."

So there you go. Bit of a Janet-and-John explanation, but sounds feasible!

[smokindav]

Here's a big what if, what if McLaren was laying down that smoke screen on purpose so as to get Juan and MS to back off in fear of an impending engine meltdown whilst DC pulled merrily ahead so he would be well clear of them after pit stops? I know it's a stretch, but why not????????


Dave Flaherty

[Jezztor]

...Because as soon as someone in front of you has a problem, you want to pass them as soon as possible, wherever and whenever possible.

Jezz

[SB]

Originally posted by smokindav
Here's a big what if, what if McLaren was laying down that smoke screen on purpose so as to get Juan and MS to back off in fear of an impending engine meltdown whilst DC pulled merrily ahead so he would be well clear of them after pit stops? I know it's a stretch, but why not????????


Dave Flaherty

Is James Bond your favorite movie ?

SB

[AdamLarnachJr]

I believe the answer has been digested, but to my knowledge, McLaren has two oil tanks, one is used to keep the supply of oil at a constant level, too much oil was in the system so they simply dumped the excess out through a valve, simple, not a whole lot to it but genius at the same time when compared to other motorsports.

[Kaha]

Originally posted by smokindav
Here's a big what if, what if McLaren was laying down that smoke screen on purpose so as to get Juan and MS to back off in fear of an impending engine meltdown whilst DC pulled merrily ahead so he would be well clear of them after pit stops? I know it's a stretch, but why not????????


Dave Flaherty

I thoght it was to get more TV time.
With JPM and MS battling for 2nd and 3rd they got all the TV exposure.
With the smoke coming out McLaren (and their sponsors) got all the TV exposure

[Oscar Jack]

Originally posted by Kaha


I thoght it was to get more TV time.
With JPM and MS battling for 2nd and 3rd they got all the TV exposure.
With the smoke coming out McLaren (and their sponsors) got all the TV exposure

Now, just how cynical can you get :
If so, then I guess I could send the hospital bill to Ron Dennis for the heart attack I suffered due to DC's smoking habits...

[metz]

Originally posted by Kaha


I thoght it was to get more TV time.
With JPM and MS battling for 2nd and 3rd they got all the TV exposure.
With the smoke coming out McLaren (and their sponsors) got all the TV exposure

I like that....
Buy a Mercedes, where the engine fixes itself....
What a car !

[Melbourne Park]

Originally posted by Kaha


I thoght it was to get more TV time.
With JPM and MS battling for 2nd and 3rd they got all the TV exposure.
With the smoke coming out McLaren (and their sponsors) got all the TV exposure

But the engine supplier and the oil supplier, both major sponsors, would not be so happy about what most would regard as negative publicity. The mental image I have is of lots of polluting smoke pouring out of the car as it twitched around a high spot in a fast section. The image of blue smoke sticks in my mind. Therefore not good publicity for Mobil or MB IMO. But nice idea. One could also suggest that a bit of oil on the track makes it more difficult for the cars behind. Also an unreasonable scenario.

[desmo]

Originally posted by smokindav
Here's a big what if, what if McLaren was laying down that smoke screen on purpose so as to get Juan and MS to back off in fear of an impending engine meltdown whilst DC pulled merrily ahead so he would be well clear of them after pit stops? I know it's a stretch, but why not????????


Dave Flaherty

I must admit I had the same thought after the smoking ceased. Jezz, this is Monaco you essentially cannot pass a near equal (or pret near any other) car. If it was plotted as a tactic, I'd consider it brilliant in a Machiavellian way.

[Wolf]

Don't you all think Ronzo was behaving out of character lately- he even sometimes seemed sensible... Maybe he's found more devious way to go about his bussines. : BTW, I wouldn't put anything past that man, including letting out some oil on the track and thus knowingly risking some poor bloke running into it and sliding into the barrier (collateral damage).

[Melbourne Park]

Originally posted by desmo


I must admit I had the same thought after the smoking ceased. Jezz, this is Monaco you essentially cannot pass a near equal (or pret near any other) car. If it was plotted as a tactic, I'd consider it brilliant in a Machiavellian way.

So did McLaren use the remote to cause the oil rather than fix a problem? That would make it sensible to have the extra weight of the "spare" oil tank ... I wonder what the rules say about deliberately releasing dangerous materials onto the track? I don't believe it. For one, the drivers' would know, and a touch of oil combined with bad luck can kill.

[tifoso]

Well, Hakkinen's Mac smoked on the grid a bit one year in Japan and it ended up being much ado about nothing...;)

[desmo]

I'm not sure dribbling an occaisional drop of oil into one of the exhausts rises to the level of "deliberately releasing dangerous materials onto the track." It would be a matter of degree, I'd suppose. And I'm frankly disappointed in RD if this wasn't a ploy.

[Melbourne Park]

Originally posted by desmo
... And I'm frankly disappointed in RD if this wasn't a ploy.

I doubt it was an RD ploy, because if it was, he would have done it later in the race, like when it was opportune to have MS pit ...

[stenney]

Originally posted by smokindav
Here's a big what if, what if McLaren was laying down that smoke screen on purpose so as to get Juan and MS to back off in fear of an impending engine meltdown whilst DC pulled merrily ahead so he would be well clear of them after pit stops? I know it's a stretch, but why not????????


Dave Flaherty

Exactly the thought I had. You wouldn't want to be right on top of the McLaren when the big bang arrived and slide into the armco on his oil would you. With the reliability record this year of the Mercedes, it would come as no surprise that the end would arrive in a cloud of smoke and oil. If this was in fact the tactic, not very sporting.

[MRC]

I thought it was curious that the smoke only came out during a shift. What was the path of the oil to the exhaust, with no parts being faulty? Before hearing these previous posts, myself and a friend had thought a slight ring problem could have been it.

[Viss1]

Originally posted by MRC
Before hearing these previous posts, myself and a friend had thought a slight ring problem could have been it.

Excessive oil /oil pressure was the cause... oil might have been getting past the rings until the pressure was reduced...

[MarkWRX]

I think some people need to check their meds to make sure they keep the paranoid delisions down to a minimum.

When I first saw the smoke, I thought "Dammit, he's leading and his engine is going to blow up in a lap or two." But then they put up some telemetry and I saw that the car was still shifting at high RPMs, not like Rubens' engine problem last year at Indy when he backed off the revs a lot.

It's a completely plausible explanation that too much oil was being fed into the sump, resulting in increased oil pressure and oil blow-by in the rings.

To suggest that McLaren would intentionally oil the track boggles the mind. McLaren has to drive that same track and synthetic oil does not dissipate that quickly. I know, I have cleaned up after blown engines with synth oil a number of times. To suggest that McLaren needed the room also boggles the mind. I would have to look at the lap charts, but I don't think that MS backed off of DC as much as her started to drive more defensively with JPM on his diffuser.

Mark

[MRC]

Would anyone happen to know how the oil reservoir breather is routed? Directly to the atmosphere or out through some other means?

[H. Eckener]

MarkWRX,

It's a completely plausible explanation that too much oil was being fed into the sump, resulting in increased oil pressure and oil blow-by in the rings

How is that the smoke only appeared during shifts?

[kos]

MRC, I think that Tec Regs specify that oil sump breather must be routed into engine's air intake.

Are you sure that smoke was coming only during shifts? I remember that it was smoking right at the exit of the tunnel, before braking to the chicane, so engine must have been at near maximum revs in the top gear.

[desmo]

FIA Technical Regulations:

"7.2 Catch Tank:

In order to avoid the possibility of oil being deposited on the track, the engine sump breather must vent into the main engine air intake system."

In pictures of cars with their engine covers removed the breather tube can be seen feeding (usually) into the rear of the airbox. There are usually two hoses, the other is the breather for the gearbox.

[Breadmaster]

Didn't McLaren used to overtop up their oil (1980's) to spoil those that followed?