93 replies to this topic

[LCA]

Thought this might provoke some interesting discussion. It is one of the more realistic, and sad, evaluations of the state of OW racing in the US. File this under sad but true...


IRL brings CART to its knees, but at what price?
By PAUL NEWBERRY
AP Sports Writer
May 25, 2002


INDIANAPOLIS (AP) -- Ten years ago, CART was a dominant force in the world of motorsports.

Mario Andretti, Emerson Fittipaldi and Bobby Rahal had not yet faded into retirement. Al Unser Jr. and Michael Andretti didn't see many wrinkles when they looked in the mirror. Formula One champion Nigel Mansell was poised to make the jump to America. People actually watched the races on TV, and no one argued about whether the Indianapolis 500 was the world's greatest event.

It seems, in the words of CART kingpin Chip Ganassi, about three lifetimes ago.

Ravaged by its seven-year war with the Indy Racing League, Championship Auto Racing Teams appears on the verge of collapse. The weaker teams are struggling to pay the bills. The stronger ones are poised to follow Roger Penske's lead and bolt to the IRL. All the major engine builders are lining up with the newer series, having decided to jump on Tony George's lifeboat before the sinking ship goes under.

From all indications, George's IRL brainchild -- a lower-cost, U.S.-based oval series -- appears to have struck the decisive blows in America's open-wheel bloodletting. The only suspense is the surrender terms.

``I knew one day it would have to come to a head,'' said Michael Andretti, still a leading driver in CART. ``It looks like we're getting to that point.''

Then again, in a realm dominated by NASCAR, can anyone really claim victory?

``I knew things had changed when I opened the paper one morning and saw a story about Jeff Gordon's wife's hairdresser up at the top,'' Ganassi said, trying to make a joke but sounding more sad than anything. ``Then, underneath, there was a brief about Jimmy Vasser winning a CART race for Chip Ganassi.''

Sure, IRL is better positioned to survive, but the series founded in 1996 still struggles to draw fans at many of its stops. While some 400,000 fans will be at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway on Sunday, there appeared to be no more than 70,000 at the first four races of the season -- combined.

``It's not all good news,'' admitted George, who is president of both IRL and its signature track. ``We've been lucky, but there's going to be some tough times, too.''

For CART, things really got tough in the past few months.

Penske, the most successful car owner in series history, packed up his team -- along with two-time reigning champion Gil de Ferran and defending Indy 500 winner Helio Castroneves -- and moved to the IRL.

Then, just three days before this year's 500, Honda struck another blow against CART's fading prestige by announcing it will build engines for the IRL next year. There goes the manufacturer that won the last six CART titles, taking along its significant marketing clout.

``It's another big step forward,'' George said.

The IRL now has four major engine manufacturers -- Honda, Toyota, Chevrolet and Infiniti -- for 2003, and Ford may join them in 2004. CART has lined up only one minor engine-builder so far.

Just as troubling, the series is facing the prospect of not having enough cars to hold a competitive race. Sixty-two drivers took part in at least one event a decade ago, but those numbers are dwindling by the moment.

Only 20 cars were on hand at the start of the season, and Pac-West Racing already has abandoned half of its two-car operation. Oriol Servia was let go because of financial woes, and the team's other car, driven by 2001 rookie of the year Scott Dixon, also is threatened. Another team, Sigma Autosports and driver Max Papis, may not make it, either.

``The biggest hurdle CART has is getting enough competitors,'' said Andretti, who drives for Barry Green. ``Even if the event is strong, you have to have participants.''

At the end of the season, at least two other top teams -- Chip Ganassi Racing and Team Green -- could follow Penske into the IRL. Will there be anyone to race in CART next season?

``Let's just say I can see the trend,'' Ganassi said, a not-so-subtle indication of where he'll be racing next season. ``There's seems to be more people going from CART to IRL than there are from IRL to CART.''

Despite the problems, CART insists it isn't going away. The organization hired respected motorsports promoter Chris Pook as its new president and recently moved its corporate headquarters to Indianapolis.

``There's a lot of people on 16th and Georgetown who would like to manufacture our gravestone,'' said vice president of marketing Steve Fusek, referring to the speedway's address. ``They had about 8,000 people at Fontana (for an IRL race in March). I don't know how you're going to sell that to anybody.''

Outside of Indianapolis, the IRL's headline event (with Andretti and seven other CART drivers in the field), the older series clearly holds the attendance advantage. Most of that edge can be attributed to well-attended races in Canada, Mexico, Germany and Australia. While crowds are much smaller in the United States, the circuit does well in spots such as Long Beach, Calif., and Cleveland.

``It would be sad to have a single series with only oval racing, but that's the IRL's plan,'' said Kim Green, who runs Andretti's operation and is Barry Green's brother. ``We have the challenge of street, oval and road racing. It's an amazing amount of pressure, but that's strong part of the series.''

On the track, CART's teams are clearly the best. In last year's Indy 500, they took the top six spots -- an embarrassing moment for IRL, but one that faded when they realized they were winning the war.

So, where did it all go wrong for CART?

Howard Katz, president of ABC Sports, believes the most serious blunder occurred in 1998, when then-CART president Andrew Craig took the company public. The stock's price got as high as $35; it's hovered at $14 or lower in the past month.

``Tony George is able to make decisions based on sensitivity to long-term interests,'' Katz said. ``It's the difference between managing a company for long-term growth and success, instead of trying to manage a stock price on almost a daily basis.''

ABC and its cable affiliate, ESPN, have decided only one open-wheel series will survive. They're betting on the IRL, having switched to the newer series after a long relationship with CART, which is now with CBS.

The IRL has slightly better ratings than CART, but both draw minuscule viewership compared with NASCAR. Undaunted, George boldly hopes to surpass the good ol' boys within five years.

``NASCAR hasn't always been the most popular form of racing,'' he said. ``Indy used to be the premier series, and I think we can be again. Times change.''

Four-time Indy 500 winner A.J. Foyt, whose team has been with the IRL since the beginning in 1996, said CART's makeup is its biggest problem. Each team owner has a hand in running the organization -- not exactly a formula for decisive leadership.

``One owner wants one thing, another owner wants another thing and then it all falls apart,'' Foyt said. ``That's why NASCAR is so strong. Bill France makes the decisions, and that's the way things are.''

George runs the IRL in much the same way. He also figured -- correctly -- that Indy's enormous prestige would be enough to counter CART's huge edge in sponsorship dollars at the beginning of the feud.

Penske switched to the IRL because his primary backer, Marlboro, wanted to be seen at the 500, but could only take part in one form of American racing under the cigarette settlement.

Penske also wanted to be at Indy, returning last year for the first time since 1995. With the Marlboro logo removed from the side of their cars, Castroneves and de Ferran cruised to a 1-2 finish, giving the Captain his record 11th victory in the 500.

``Roger Penske knows what made Roger Penske. It's this place,'' said Foyt, standing in his garage at the speedway. ``He's smarter than the rest of them.''

Ganassi believes CART strayed off course when it began relying so heavily on foreign races, which hold nine spots on this year's 20-race schedule. The open-wheelers basically ceded the United States to NASCAR, which didn't play well with American sponsors and casual fans.

``People in this country want their racing on Saturday night and Sunday, and they want to read about it on Monday,'' Ganassi said. ``But when we're in Japan and Australia, we just can't get into the news.''

Ganassi has launched his own NASCAR team, a pre-emptive strike from a man who is worried about the future of open-wheel racing in the United States -- no matter what letters are on the company stationery.

``It's not about, 'Can CART survive?''' he said. ``I'm just hoping open-wheel racing survives.''

[P1 Senna]

Sobering stuff, indeed. From the article:

The IRL now has four major engine manufacturers -- Honda, Toyota, Chevrolet and Infiniti -- for 2003, and Ford may join them in 2004. CART has lined up only one minor engine-builder so far.

I thought CART had 2 engine makers lined up for '03 - Cosworth and MG-Judd? Even so, it's the marketing dollars of Toyota and Honda that CART won't be able to replace. Can anyone imagine MG running CART ads on TV and in print the way Honda did? No.

Despite the problems, CART insists it isn't going away.

Of course CART has to insist it's not going away - it's a publicly traded company, what else can they say?

Overall, given the grim quotes from CART guys like Mikey and Ganassi, it's not very pretty. It's obvious there is only enough support for one US-based open wheel series. CART bungled the early years after the split, cavalierly believing that Indy Mediums would fail on its own. Once Ganassi led the return to Indy in 2000, the final chapters were being scripted. Then CART hired Joe Heitzler, and the rest is history, or soon will be. Sad, very sad.

[RV_Canada]

CART is failing because it sucks and it's boring. I stopped watching 2 years ago. The winner wins by chance more than by skill ... a lucky yellow flag, whatever.

Too bad though, some of the venues were pretty cool .. oval racing is garbage.

[aportinga]

Ganassi believes CART strayed off course when it began relying so heavily on foreign races, which hold nine spots on this year's 20-race schedule. The open-wheelers basically ceded the United States to NASCAR, which didn't play well with American sponsors and casual fans.

``People in this country want their racing on Saturday night and Sunday, and they want to read about it on Monday,'' Ganassi said. ``But when we're in Japan and Australia, we just can't get into the news.''

Indeed this is very true - great point!

Utimately when the series split and the IRL was formed, CART had the best drivers and teams. They had the largest sponsors and all the key venues minus Indy. In otherwords the battle was theirs too lose and they did.

No matter how much people hate TG, you have to admit that even monkeys could have ran CART better then the Deleware Board and Joe Heitlzer did.

Unfortunately the nature of many - not all, CART fans is to blame everyone else

[The First MH]

Originally posted by LCA
Ganassi believes CART strayed off course when it began relying so heavily on foreign races, which hold nine spots on this year's 20-race schedule. The open-wheelers basically ceded the United States to NASCAR, which didn't play well with American sponsors and casual fans.

``People in this country want their racing on Saturday night and Sunday, and they want to read about it on Monday,'' Ganassi said. ``But when we're in Japan and Australia, we just can't get into the news.''

I find this a strange statement. Nine races international? - foreign to the US? I think he is using statistics in an incorrect fashion here. There is no difference in time between Mexico and Canada, where five of the nine 'international' races take place. That leaves, Germany, England, Japan and Australia. Wow! Four races proved to be the undoing of CART.....

What's wierd about that statement is that those nine races are some of the most well attended reaces in CART. I guess we can expect the IRL not to be international ...

[LCA]

I thought one of the most significant things mentioned in this article was that Green, Chip and others might be making a jump to the IRL soon. If CART loses another big team I think it will almost surely be curtains for the series. I'm looking for a CART team already associated with Honda might make the jump (Green, for instance, or maybe Mo Nunn will field a 2 car effort in the IRL) because they will need a flag carrier in the IRL and the powerhouse IRL teams are already signed up with others (Penkse & Kelley - Toyota, Cheever - Infiniti, Panther - Chevy). That bunch don't seem likely to change over to Honda.

BTW - I believe the only engine manufacturer to officially announce their intention to compete in CART for 2003 is MG. Cosworth is still waiting for someone to badge their engines (with Ford pulling the label many have mentioned Mazda) and Toyota is holding back their official announcement for some sinister reason I'm sure (they could destroy the series by changing their minds and not competeing in 2003 - or maybe MG & Cosworth could supply the whole field).

As aport and I have said before - This may not all be for the worst. The end product of an amalgamation of the IRL and CART would probably look like IndyCar of olde, which wouldn't be such a bad thing...

Almost forgot - I agree that foreign races are not necessarily problematic but it does reflect an increasingly international flavor and direction to the series that sponsors would rather not have. Sure, it's wonderful that 200,000 Mexican fans showed up to Monterrey but that is not the target market for many CART sponsors - get 200,000 fans to show in Chicago and you would impress sponsors. The shifting demographic of CART's target market has left many sponsors who want to hit the US market pissed off (see Marlboro).

[P1 Senna]

Originally posted by LCA
BTW - I believe the only engine manufacturer to officially announce their intention to compete in CART for 2003 is MG. Cosworth is still waiting for someone to badge their engines (with Ford pulling the label many have mentioned Mazda) and Toyota is holding back their official announcement for some sinister reason I'm sure (they could destroy the series by changing their minds and not competeing in 2003 - or maybe MG & Cosworth could supply the whole field).

Take a look at this picture, and read Robin Miller's article on Cart.com. Cosworth is in for 2003, and it doesn't matter if there's a badge for it or not. They'll run as Cosworths. The IRL requires manufacturer linkage, but CART will take what it can get at this point. It has no choice.

Again, it isn't as simple as just finding engines to power the rolling stock. The marketing strength of Honda and Toyota will be irreplaceable unless another major player takes up the slack.

[Locai]

Originally posted by LCA
``NASCAR hasn't always been the most popular form of racing,'' he said. ``Indy used to be the premier series, and I think we can be again. Times change.''

``One owner wants one thing, another owner wants another thing and then it all falls apart,'' Foyt said. ``That's why NASCAR is so strong. Bill France makes the decisions, and that's the way things are.''

The IRL should be a whole lot more careful about saying that it plans on surpassing NASCAR. The France family owns the majority of ISC which owns half the tracks that the IRL runs. If Tony goes targeting NASCAR he may find that he suddenly doesn't have any tracks to run (that is after the NASCAR people stop hyperventilating from laughing so hard).

If the IRL even begins to make progress against NASCAR, the France family will just start their own open-wheel series...with tubular steel frames and carburated big block V-8's, of course!

[Don Capps]

Originally posted by Locai
The IRL should be a whole lot more careful about saying that it plans on surpassing NASCAR. The France family owns the majority of ISC which owns half the tracks that the IRL runs. If Tony goes targeting NASCAR he may find that he suddenly doesn't have any tracks to run (that is after the NASCAR people stop hyperventilating from laughing so hard).

The IRL has benefited from the deep pockets of Indy owner George and that NASCAR threw its support behind the IRL and not CART. NASCAR has been very benevolent towards the IRL. That could change, but then again there probably reasons for NASCAR not to worry.

Originally posted by Locai
If the IRL even begins to make progress against NASCAR, the France family will just start their own open-wheel series...with tubular steel frames and carburated big block V-8's, of course!

They've already done that once, in 1952 & 1953, the Speedway Division.

[Turbo]

It ain't over yet folks! CART can still pull this off.

Yes they are definitely in bad shape due to horrible management in recent years, and especially due to a horrendous decision made toward the end of last year to go to 3.5L NA IRL-ish engines a full one year earlier than they had promised Ford and Honda they would do and without ANY confirmed manufacturers on board. That's undoubtably one of the worst business decisions in recent history and it's amazing that alone didn't kill them off. This was done all to allow teams to go to the Indy 500 at less cost, compromising the quality of all of CART's road races for one race. And it didn't even succeed in that goal! Tony George just stipulated that to run at Indy you needed a major mfgr badge and an IRL sled. So the teams going to Indy have to buy all new equipment anyhow. DOH! If these guys had attended to the best interests of CART over the last 7 years rather than worrying about the Indy 500 open wheel racing in N America could be in a terrific state right now.

Now with this all in mind, CART still has some very valuable assets that might save it:
1. Chris Pook is now CEO. They didn't leave him much to work with, but he's been working wonder with what they gave him so far.
2. They changed some race rules to take away fuel economy runs and the "lucky yellow win" effect. Sort of like V8 supercars, there are now mandatory pit windows that are calculated to have teams running full rich the whole time. It's admittedly a form ofr management competition that some don't like, but it has succeeded in leading everyone to run flat out and the races have been great to watch.
3. The race schedule is superb. Events at Mexico City, Montreal, StPete, etc. added to the already great events at Road America, Surfer's, Long Beach etc.
4. This race schedule brings in a very large chunck of predictable income in the form of sanctioning fees. This alone makes it very hard for CART to lose a lot of money in any given year.
5. Pook has succeeded in building good relationships with race promoters, sponsors, and others that bodes well for the future.
6. CART claims they have $100 million in confirmed team sponsorship dollars for 2003 already.
7. MG/Judd and Cosworth are confirmed as engine suppliers. That alone is enough to handle 20 teams. CART says they have 2-3 additional suppliers very likely. Lopes claims that Toyota is onboard.
8. CART has in the neighborhood of $100 million in cash in the bank (still there from the initial IPO)
9. CART claims to have reduced costs dramatically for running a team in 2003. I've heard figures that the targeted reduction is from the current $10 mill minimum to about $6-7. Engine costs are capped at $2.7 mill including all rebuilds, etc. If this is indeed the case, the teams losing engine subsidies from Honda or Toyota would be able to compensate by paying less for everything else.

So the glass isn't completely empty by any means.

The big challenge will be ensuring they have enough teams onboard for 2003. I believe given all of the above they will find some way, any way, to field enough teams for the events. If Toyota does supply, the risk of losing Toyota teams goes down a lot. Some current Honda teams may stay. Many speculate that Ganassi will leave, but this is mere speculation. It makes a lot of sense for him to run both series (shoot for two titles, have more drivers racing at Indy) and I personally guess he will do just that. Speculation about Green leaving is also just speculation. He recently said he wants to stay and has talked to other engine mfgrs. I wouldn't be surprised to also see Green in both series at some level.

There is a large pool of potentially untapped future teams out there. A number of teams have had to leave CART in recent years for lack of funds or because not getting engines (DellaPenna, Arciero, Coyne, etc.). With cost reductions, some of those teams could return. Rumored teams from Germany, Mexico, and elsewhere couldn't quite scrape up funds, maybe now they could make it. Bigger Atlantic teams that have wanted to move up to CART now might be able to. Those who wanted to get into F1 and couldn't could get into CART at much less cost and much higher probability of winning and getting podiums. Pook et al are trying to facilitate things by matching up potential sponsors with potential teams. In a real pinch, CART could dig into the $100 million war chest a bit and offer loans or participation purses to teams to ensure enough on the grid. Finally, many of the key players in CART are enormously wealthy and might be willing in an emergency to field a car to meet the car count (as Patrick and Forsyth have done in the past). With all this in play, I believe it can be done. Not easy, but possible.

So I don't know how this will play out. But I think all the "CART is dead" talk is WAY premature. They have engines, they have venues, they have money, they have strategies to retain and attract teams, they have Pook. For the sake of road racing fans in N America and indeed everywhere I hope they succeed. If not, the board actions from 96-2001 are to blame, so in a way these guys deserve whatever they get. Fans like me and so many others have done our part by going to races, spending money, and telling friends. All we can do now is wait and see. If it crashes and burns there's always F1, ALMS, world rally, touring cars, and bikes.

[Turbo]

A couple things I forgot:

-CART has not lost any teams since the start of the season. Starting with Milwaukee, CART added a third car for Scott Dixon, and the vacant Pac West seat goes to Servia. Still 20 cars on the grid. So they dodged that bullet. Also Papis has stated they will run and will stay in the game. They have some sponsorship, just not as much as they really need to be fight with the top teams.
-Pook got the board to approve a majority vote scheme on all future votes to help break the deadlock/inertia in making decisions that has plagued them in recent years (for example, they could have gone 1.8L turbo in 1998 with four confirmed mfgrs but screwed the whole deal by sitting on it forever and never deciding). This will allow them to move much more quickly than in the past.

[robhood]

And. . . .
How do you think KOOL feels having its driver involved in a huge contoversy (read free advertising) and all anyone sees in replay after replay is 7-11 Big Gulp passing the Marlboro car.

I'll bet they feel the same way Marlboro felt last year. . . .

[chrisj]

Maybe when CART dies, Formula One will go back to Long Beach.

[TAB666]

Originally posted by chrisj
Maybe when CART dies, Formula One will go back to Long Beach.

I sure hope F1 wont go to Long Beach .... its just impossible to overtake and i think they would deem it to dangerous

[AlesiGOD]

I certainly hope that CART will survive.. the IRL looks like ****...

[Pikachu Racing]

The CART management made bunch of follies that it's sad to see them at this state. I lost interest in it and stopped watching. I watch enjoying CART five years ago but they went downhill. It doesn't help when guys like Ganassi puts a team in NASCAR and gets more exposure with Sterling Marlin.

Here are several management follies

- Andrew Craig puts CART in public
- Bobby Rahal signs TMS. The result of it was a cancelled race on race day and 70,000 angry fans. You know why Texas loves the IRL.
- Joe Heitzler named as CEO
- Hawaiian GP
- rising track costs and alienate tracks like Brooklyn and Nazareth
- Toyota forced them to make changes to the engine format which they did. In result, Honda quits and Toyota are going, "Next year....ummm....maybe." This one most likely a nail in the coffin for CART. IRL have Chevy, Nissan (Infinti), Toyota, and Honda for next year.

It will take a miracle for CART to survive.

[Dudley]

and no one argued about whether the Indianapolis 500 was the world's greatest event.

No because even then it was LeMans by a country mile

I find this a strange statement. Nine races international? - foreign to the US? I think he is using statistics in an incorrect fashion here. There is no difference in time between Mexico and Canada, where five of the nine 'international' races take place. That leaves, Germany, England, Japan and Australia. Wow! Four races proved to be the undoing of CART.....

And Australia was there 10 years ago anyway.

--

I'd watch CART but I can't.

Last year, we had it live in the UK on Eurosport and a full race re-run on monday night on Channel 5.

This year? 1hr version a WHOLE WEEK later on Eurosport (a channel that before the first race showed a trailor for it THAT SHOWED THE WINNER CROSSING THE LINE!)

So the UK doesn't care.

--

Having said that I would have gone to Rockingham last year. I didn't because the tickets cost £75, which is just insane.

[bear]

I realize CART dragged it feet on the new power plant but it really puzzles me how Toyota and(Honda especially) think the IRL is they way to go. All they have is Indy. Most of their tracks seats are empty. It's low tech something Honda said they no interest in what so ever in many many times. It Shuts out the rest of North America,Mexico and Australia, which have to mean something to these companies.

mark

[LCA]

Update:

Ganassi adds third car to bring the field to 20 cars! Dixon to drive the #44 Target car in Milwaukee. Seriva to take over Dixon's seat at PWR.

CART's not dead yet!

I've decided COSWORTH should just call their engine a COSWORTH. I don't want it to something stupid like the Scoda-Cosworth. If it's not going to be Ford or Mazda - then screw it.

Top Manufacturers I don't want to see badge the COSWORTH:

Scoda
Yugo (are they bankrupt?)
KIA
Citroen

Updated update: I've decided the coolest manufacturer that could badge the Cosworth is Aston Martin - and they are owned by Ford too! The Aston Martin - Cosworth I know, it'll never happen...

[Locai]

Originally posted by robhood
And. . . .
How do you think KOOL feels having its driver involved in a huge contoversy (read free advertising) and all anyone sees in replay after replay is 7-11 Big Gulp passing the Marlboro car.

I'll bet they feel the same way Marlboro felt last year. . . .

I have thought all year that what Marlboro Team Penske should do next year is to run 1 car with an up-and-comer in the IRL with the Marlboro sponsorship and then run 2 cars in CART with Kraft sponsorship (which is also owned by Phillip Morris) with Gil and Helio driving. Then run all three at Indy. That way, Penske could do development on the Indy setup with the IRL team yet keep his 2 drivers happy by running the full CART schedule. This is very similar to what Ganassi has done this year with Jeff Ward in the IRL.

For the CART races that are run outside of the U.S. (and don't ban tobacco ads) they could switch back to the Marlboro sponsorship.

Team Kool Green could do something similar to this also. They could keep the Kool sponsorship in the IRL and use 7-11 in CART.

This all assumes that the sponsors would go for it.

[Locai]

Originally posted by LCA
Updated update: I've decided the coolest manufacturer that could badge the Cosworth is Aston Martin - and they are owned by Ford too! The Aston Martin - Cosworth I know, it'll never happen...

No bang for the buck with Aston Martin. I think that they would end up building more engines for the CART season than they would build for road cars in the same amount of time.

How about Volvo or Lincoln? Ford owns them, too.

Others:

• Mercury (seems pointless)
• Lincoln (possible)
• Volvo (could give it a more sporty image)
• Aston Martin (doesn't seem worth it)
• Jaguar (they're already doing enough damage to its image in F1)
• Land Rover (would definitely be the weirdest choice)

[AlesiGOD]

Originally posted by Locai



[*]Volvo (could give it a more sporty image)
[/list]

Sporty?

[aportinga]

1. Chris Pook is now CEO. They didn't leave him much to work with, but he's been working wonder with what they gave him so far.

Just what has Pook done??? I used to love the guy and was pleased he took over but really what has he done...

Remember when AR1 touted that he was talking with Audi and Maserati and that one if not both would enter the series. When the announcement came we were left with MG

How about the loss of Honda, Toyota, Motegi, Nazarath - and now possibly RA and the Milwaukee Mile - Just what the Hell has he done or is he doing about that?

[LCA]

Originally posted by Locai
How about Volvo or Lincoln? Ford owns them, too.

yup. I agree those are the most likely candidates, along with Mazda.

[Viktor]

I started watching CART in 95 to se one J. Villeneuve drive, he was supose to drive from Williams in F1 in 96, if you remember him ;).
After the first race I was hooked, I have seen almost every race sence 1996 but I have to say that the last 2 or 3 seasons (including the current one) have been very boring. I dont know what it is, maybe I just miss Zanardi, Greg and Montoya, but CART is missing the spark that drow me to watching every race in 96-99. Now it's just another open wheel racing serie with to many yellow flags and to many bad drivers. Just look at Laguna Seca or Portland last year (usualy the highpoint of the season) great track, great cars but with to many yellow flags and stupid moves by the drivers.

/Viktor

[Locai]

Originally posted by bear
I realize CART dragged it feet on the new power plant but it really puzzles me how Toyota and(Honda especially) think the IRL is they way to go. All they have is Indy. Most of their tracks seats are empty. It's low tech something Honda said they no interest in what so ever in many many times. It Shuts out the rest of North America,Mexico and Australia, which have to mean something to these companies.

mark

Honda and Toyota are going to the IRL because they have Indy and CART doesn't have anything that gets anywhere close to that kind of coverage.

[Turbo]

"Just what has Pook done??? I used to love the guy and was pleased he took over but really what has he done..."

As detailed in the rest of the same post you quote from that EVERYONE apparently has just ignored due to it's length Pook has:
-solidified a terrific schedule and added some new great events
-got the board to agree to a majority voting scheme to allow faster decision making
-quelled the promoter uprising that was brewing when he entered
-landed MG and solidified Cosworth's commitment
-put infrastructure in place for CART to be a much better company in terms of helping teams, sponsors, promoters, etc.
-spearheaded a change in race rules to bring an end to fuel economy races and luck yellow wins
-plus whatever he's gotten done in Europe in the past month that we haven't heard about yet.
More engine suppliers and teams? Hopefully yes.
That's pretty good for 5 months if you ask me. Blame Heitzler, Craig and the board for the vast majority of the current chaos in CART.

[lumepo03]

I have read many excellent replies in this post. Many of you are correct in what you are saying. The unfortunate thing about CART is that it must now please the INVESTORS and not the paying public or sponsors. As illogical as it may be it is no longer about racing but how much of a return an investor can get for their money. CART seems to have made a major failure with going public. Getting races in Germany, Great Britain, Japan, Australia, Mexico, and Canada seems to suit the track fans and some tv audiences but the players do not see value in not being able to capitalise on their sponsorship. Throw in the fact that some international based companies could not capitalise on their sponsorship. They essentially killed the goose that laid the golden egg. Could this have been a way for them to try to beat Tony George? I do not know. One thing is for sure, Mary Hulman is much wealthier then the France family and as long as she has Tony george running the operation I do see the IRL mounting a serious challenge to NASCAR. The France family is smart and surely realises that NASCAR will go the way of most enormously popular American sports. People will tire of it and tastes will change. They have obviously tried to stay ahead of the trends, but histroy always has a habit of repeating itself. When this will happen, who knows. But they are keeping the eggs in different baskets

Will CART survive? I do not know. Would I buy stock in CART? If the price was ridiculously low, yes, otherwise NO. CART by expanding into the international market with open wheel racing is stepping on the toes of one Bernie Ecclestone. And we all know how shrewd of a businessman he is. So maybe Bernie holds the answer to that question.

[TheWhiteRabbit]

Every article I've read about CART lately is basically about whether it's dead or if it isn't how much longer before it is...

For like the last 7 months solid.

[bear]

"Honda and Toyota are going to the IRL because they have Indy and CART doesn't have anything that gets anywhere close to that kind of coverage."

That is just one race what does the IRL do for the other 364 days?

mark

[Buford]

That is just one race what does the IRL do for the other 364 days?


Stink up the joint like they have been doing for 7 years. They have had 5 or 6 good races in 6+ years and a couple dozen crash fests with half the race under the yellow.

The problem is, even if CART survives they will be running the same, or even worse crap wagons that the IRL has, some of the good drivers and teams are gone, and they no longer have the great mix of high speed and short ovals, road courses and street courses that were the ultimate challenge for a racer. Even if they do survive, it will be crap. And the IRL is and always was crap. We are doomed.

[molive]

Originally posted by TheWhiteRabbit
Every article I've read about CART lately is basically about whether it's dead or if it isn't how much longer before it is...

For like the last 7 months solid.

CART ain´t dead. And IMO it will not . Downsize maybe, but then again, even F1 is being forced to downsize in order to make it.

CART already has two engine suppliers on hand, they have a bunch of very good drivers and some of the best racing tracks available. As someone mentioned, they have the sanctioning fess from the tracks and a multi-year broadcasting contract.

So, it´s my view that, if some of the team owners decide to jump ship it´s because they are willing accept the IRL mediocrity just for the bucks and aren´t really deserving to be among CART anyway. Let´m go, create new teams or help the current teams field a 3rd car. Keep on investing on foreign marketing, solidify the existent fan base, cut costs, etc. IMO Pook is already doing some of these things and CART has all the ingredients to survive on its own, without having to put up with TG for the sake of one overated oval race.

[P1 Senna]

Good article on the Autoweek site about the Honda move to the IRL. It's a pretty fair assessment of the situation, and the last two sentences are not confidence builders.

Yet if it is George’s intent to bury CART, he can’t strike the coup de grâce until he deals with the road-racing question, because as long as people want to watch road racing CART can hang around and spoil his plan. Perhaps that’s why the IRL’s new chassis specs have provisions for fuel fillers on both sides of the cars.

There can only be one reason to have fuel fill connections on both sides of the car, and that's to go road racing. If TG adds a few road courses to his schedule, I'm afraid it's game over for CART. That will be enough of a lure to pull a couple more teams across, assisted by Honda's incentives (cash and/or engines?) to switch.

In addition, MPH (CART) stock has tanked this week, losing 20% of its value over the past 2 days, closing yesterday at $10.30, a new all-time low.

[molive]

Originally posted by P1 Senna
In addition, MPH (CART) stock has tanked this week, losing 20% of its value over the past 2 days, closing yesterday at $10.30, a new all-time low.

I think this whole stock market thing stinks because it means that the sporting directors start making decisions based on the purely business sense (see Ferrari, SLEC, Kirch, Phoenix, etc for F1 examples).

[LCA]

Has anyone else noticed that there are cultural differences between the IRL and CART? I think it is primarily a CART fan. I am not trying to bash the IRL at all - but the series just feels more old school, country and beer oriented. More like NASCAR.

While CART seems more futuristic, urban and wine&spirits oriented.

Am I crazy? I just can't get comfortable with the IRL crowd, something always bothers me about it. Whereas with CART I feel right at home. Even just surfing their respective websites I notice subtle things. CART, even without significant suppliers, still has more appeal to me and I feel a little embarrased when surfing indyracing.com.

It's easy to guess where F1 fits on the culture spectrum but I often find it a bit overwhelming. CART seems to be the ahppy medium.

Anyone else notice this? I thought about posting this in a new thread but thought I might see if I get responses here first.

[aportinga]

As detailed in the rest of the same post you quote from that EVERYONE apparently has just ignored due to it's length Pook has:
-solidified a terrific schedule and added some new great events
-got the board to agree to a majority voting scheme to allow faster decision making
-quelled the promoter uprising that was brewing when he entered
-landed MG and solidified Cosworth's commitment
-put infrastructure in place for CART to be a much better company in terms of helping teams, sponsors, promoters, etc.
-spearheaded a change in race rules to bring an end to fuel economy races and luck yellow wins
-plus whatever he's gotten done in Europe in the past month that we haven't heard about yet.
More engine suppliers and teams? Hopefully yes.
That's pretty good for 5 months if you ask me. Blame Heitzler, Craig and the board for the vast majority of the current chaos in CART.

Umm I read it but don't see much of this as being enough to save CART...

1. The schedule: Denver and Washington are hardly a victory Turbo... What would have been justified as being deemed as a victory would have been bringing back MIS and Belle Island.

2. The Deleware Board: Yes that one I will tip the hat to Pook for

3. Promoter Uprising: Hardling one of the most inherent problems hampering CART - and we still do not know to what extent he has rectified this matter.

4. MG... U have got to be kidding - how many links do you need which specifically state that Pook was bringing in one if not both (Audi/Maserati). MG is a joke compared to these two manufactures - and to add even further insult, they do not even sell MG in the States. And as far as Cosworth is concerned...another whoopdie doo Arrows uses them to.

5. Better Infrastructure - I'll tip my hat again

The rest is speculation....

And BTW... while the IRL has attained Honda, Toyota - possibly Ganassi, the Milwaukee Mile, Motegi & possibly Road America...what has CART done? Infact they haven't said a word... Notice the result - 20% decrease in stock value this week alone.

[RockIsDead31]

Originally posted by bear
I realize CART dragged it feet on the new power plant but it really puzzles me how Toyota and(Honda especially) think the IRL is they way to go. All they have is Indy. Most of their tracks seats are empty. It's low tech something Honda said they no interest in what so ever in many many times. It Shuts out the rest of North America,Mexico and Australia, which have to mean something to these companies.

mark

If Toyota and Honda think that the IRL is the way to go then wouldn't that suggest they may have jumped on the Tony George band wagon? If they both leave CART then how long would CART last with MG and Cosworth...........?

[aportinga]

CART's down 40% in the last 3 days....

Click Here

[LCA]

Originally posted by aportinga
CART's down 40% in the last 3 days....

Click Here

doesn't look good - or maybe it's a bargain at $9 a share.

[Slyder]

CART is on it's deathbed right now, I don't see them going anywhere in the next 2 years

If IRL picks up road courses, thats it.

CART is dead, IRL wins, big deal, lets move on and enjoy what is left of american openwheel racing.

[indycarjunkie]

Not that I'm a conspiricy theory hack but what do you suppose the chances are that they're trying to tank the value of the stock on purpose to make a buy-back to turn it into a private company again cheeper? I know its illegal as sin but IMO the fact that its a public company and has stock holders to answer to is what's bringing it down.

[flyer72]

Some comments to the article By PAUL NEWBERRY
- (10 years ago) no one argued about whether the Indianapolis 500 was the world's greatest event. -
Well I do. Indy 500 is huge in the US but on an international level... well, it was barely noted. Thus it wasn't the world's greatest event.

- All the major engine builders are lining up with the newer series -

Well, Cosworth and MG is going with CART in 03, and I would think that someone else might also get into the game... 03 isn't quite yet here... too early to call.

- Penske, the most successful car owner in series history, packed up his team -- along with two-time reigning champion Gil de Ferran and defending Indy 500 winner Helio Castroneves -- and moved to the IRL. -

All respect to Penske but moving to IRL was most certainly necessary to keep Marlboro and they won't be in motorsports after 06...

- Then, just three days before this year's 500, Honda struck another blow against CART's fading prestige by announcing it will build engines for the IRL next year. There goes the manufacturer that won the last six CART titles, taking along its significant marketing clout. -

Honda is a disaster in F1 and will be using Illmor to do the engines.... Can't fool me.

- CART has lined up only one minor engine-builder so far. -

Cosworth? Minor? Well, those engines could also be relabled Mazda or Volvo....

Only 20 cars were on hand at the start of the season, and Pac-West Racing already has abandoned half of its two-car operation. Oriol Servia was let go because of financial woes, and the team's other car, driven by 2001 rookie of the year Scott Dixon, also is threatened. Another team, Sigma Autosports and driver Max Papis, may not make it, either.

Isn't Sigma a fairly new team? With the recession going on and few sponsors it would be natura to have fewer teams. When the big sponsors are leaving then something is really wrong.

``The biggest hurdle CART has is getting enough competitors,'' said Andretti, who drives for Barry Green. ``Even if the event is strong, you have to have participants.''
But several events are STRONG. That can easily attract new competitors, IRL only have one strong event, the rest is a joke!

At the end of the season, at least two other top teams -- Chip Ganassi Racing and Team Green -- could follow Penske into the IRL. Will there be anyone to race in CART next season?

Team Rahal will be there. Those teams can leave if they want to! I think that IRL sucks and there is little money to be made in that series. One good event like the Indy 500 can't bear a whole series!

``Let's just say I can see the trend,'' Ganassi said, a not-so-subtle indication of where he'll be racing next season. ``There's seems to be more people going from CART to IRL than there are from IRL to CART.''

Where did Kenny Bräck come from? If someone has already made up their mind...

``There's a lot of people on 16th and Georgetown who would like to manufacture our gravestone,'' said vice president of marketing Steve Fusek, referring to the speedway's address. ``They had about 8,000 people at Fontana (for an IRL race in March). I don't know how you're going to sell that to anybody.''

Haha! 8,000.... Now tell me why someone would be interested in continuing that...

So, where did it all go wrong for CART? Howard Katz, president of ABC Sports, believes the most serious blunder occurred in 1998, when then-CART president Andrew Craig took the company public. The stock's price got as high as $35; it's hovered at $14 or lower in the past month.

Wrong. dead wrong. Making a company public might not have been a smart move but it isn't the reason why CART is suffering. The economic climate, sponsor availability and the stupid engine changes forward and backwards are to blame. The management have done a pretty poor job as well.

ABC and its cable affiliate, ESPN, have decided only one open-wheel series will survive. They're betting on the IRL, having switched to the newer series after a long relationship with CART, which is now with CBS.

What is wrong with CBS? It is available to most americans...

The IRL has slightly better ratings than CART, but both draw minuscule viewership compared with NASCAR. Undaunted, George boldly hopes to surpass the good ol' boys within five years.

Only slightly... and ratings can be improved! Better racing and none of this bad stupid yellow flag circus...

Four-time Indy 500 winner A.J. Foyt, whose team has been with the IRL since the beginning in 1996, said CART's makeup is its biggest problem. Each team owner has a hand in running the organization -- not exactly a formula for decisive leadership.

So blame the teams for the lack of success! It is still up to the board and the CEO.

Ganassi believes CART strayed off course when it began relying so heavily on foreign races, which hold nine spots on this year's 20-race schedule. The open-wheelers basically ceded the United States to NASCAR, which didn't play well with American sponsors and casual fans.

At the same time that those races are very popular abroad and the series do have international viewers. Once again, what is IRL? CART can sell their TV rights on other countries, something that IRL will have a hard time to do.

``People in this country want their racing on Saturday night and Sunday, and they want to read about it on Monday,'' Ganassi said. ``But when we're in Japan and Australia, we just can't get into the news.''

Considering that many of those "international" events are also on the same time as the US. that 4 or 5 races are in a different timezone doesn't hinder F1 in it's popularity...

`I'm just hoping open-wheel racing survives.''

Well if IRL is the model for that, I would doubt it! The MAIN issue that CART have failed to fix is the amount of yellow flags that have turned many, many races to a practical joke. CART have not addressed the RACING issues for too long and therefore lost viewers and interest. The drivers are also OVERLY sponsor oriented to a point that almost makes you want to throw up. It is a sport, and the sponsors will already be noticed!

I must confess that I have only seen one CART race live (not on telly) and the whole thing about you walking through the paddock and merchandise and, and.... is amazing, I really enjoyed it! The racing sucked so badly it was disturbing. Yellow flag, yellow and more yellow... from a racing standpoint it was really a joke. That can easily be fixed though!

[flyer72]

Originally posted by aportinga
Umm I read it but don't see much of this as being enough to save CART...
4. MG... U have got to be kidding - how many links do you need which specifically state that Pook was bringing in one if not both (Audi/Maserati). MG is a joke compared to these two manufactures - and to add even further insult, they do not even sell MG in the States. And as far as Cosworth is concerned...another whoopdie doo Arrows uses them to.

http://www.motornet..../29040206.phtml

MG is coming back to the US market!
Cosworth? They are owned by Ford so they might be rebadged..... They have been in motorsports for the past 30 years. Cosworth powered Arrows into getting two points so far this year in the cheapest F1 team besides Minardi. They also power Jaguar and are actually quite powerful.

THEY ALSO POWERED MICHAEL SCHUMACHER INTO THE WORLDCHAMPIONSHIP IN 1994.


Check yr info.

[flyer72]

Originally posted by Slyder
CART is on it's deathbed right now, I don't see them going anywhere in the next 2 years

If IRL picks up road courses, thats it.

CART is dead, IRL wins, big deal, lets move on and enjoy what is left of american openwheel racing.

How can it be enjoyed if it only goes in circles... If CART calls it quits, american openwheel based racing is dead.

[Williams]

Originally posted by flyer72


How can it be enjoyed if it only goes in circles... If CART calls it quits, american openwheel based racing is dead.

Far from it. The important thing is for one side of the other to win and end this confusing schism in the sport. Once OWR in the States becomes a unified and recognizable commodity again instead of a bunch of conflicting acronyms, ordinary fans might start to watch the sport again.

[Ursus]

Originally posted by flyer72


http://www.motornet..../29040206.phtml

MG is coming back to the US market!
Cosworth? They are owned by Ford so they might be rebadged..... They have been in motorsports for the past 30 years. Cosworth powered Arrows into getting two points so far this year in the cheapest F1 team besides Minardi. They also power Jaguar and are actually quite powerful.

THEY ALSO POWERED MICHAEL SCHUMACHER INTO THE WORLDCHAMPIONSHIP IN 1994.


Check yr info.

With all due respect towards MG, they're not quite in the same league as Honda.
And regarding Cosworth noone is doubting their competence in building first class engines but who is paying? Are they offering to develop and build engines because they see a business oppertunity or are Ford prepared to pick up the tab?

[aportinga]

Indycarjunkie - You may be right about the public to private issue... Of course if you're looking for a conspiracy hows this?

Bill France Jr and Nascar cuddle up with the IRL and Tony George - throwing support behind them and let TG and the IRL spend their own cash to ruin CART (indirectly damaging OW racing in the States).... (Damn I think I just solved it folks!!!!) Anyhow the IRL eventually gets CART out of the Oval business (Note that TG is at the Milwaukee Mile this weekend - IRL already has TMS/MIS and Motegi now)... The IRL has all the major ovals but still cannot draw anyone to watch races on the TV nor at the tracks - hell even the Indy500 suffered a 17% drop in ratings this year! So we know the IRL itself is detremental to the series survival

So what's next?

Well obviously Tony George's theory of the IRL makes it a direct competitor of NASCAR.So............................................France makes an under the table deal with CART in which the value is so far decreased that France and family can basically purchase the entire series for nothing! Now mind you that CART is NOT and oval series at this point. The IRL continues to dwindle and eventually NASCAR throws them out of all ISC tracks thus retaining sole interest in all oval racing in the US.

Add to that that NASCAR NOW retains a nice little series with international connections and a flair for higher technology (CART). They can now bankroll CART under the NASCAR suite of race series and even perhaps get a few American manufactures/teams/drivers to become involved - all while pushing to new markets world - wide!

Man I scare myself sometimes!

[Pikachu Racing]

Interesting on the NASCAR and IRL bit. This maybe off-topic. This Saturday is the IRL summer Texas race on 7 PM on ESPN. Check your TV schedule and competing against them on FOX is a tape-delay NASCAR BGN race at Nashville. TMS is part of Speedway Inc. reportedly in a not-so-secret feud with NASCAR over second dates at Texas and possible move of The Winston from Charlotte. Bill France might have suggested showing the BGN Nashville race on tape-delay to steal ratings and to teach Bruton Smith and Speedway Inc a "lesson" going against NASCAR. Tony George could see this as a threat and alienates himself from NASCAR. It could happen and I see a conspiracy between NASCAR and Speedway Inc that might involve Tony George. The two are also competing against Game 3 of the Cup finals between Canes and Wings.

[ensign14]

Get something off my chest:

1. The whole set up behind CART in the first place was wrong, team owners should not run their own formula because it creates a conflict of interest and a possible closed shop (IMHO).

2. USAC kept ballsing up. Indy 1981? We'll never know who would have won had they called the penalties correctly. So something had to be done. Whoops, paradox.

3. IRL had the 500. Jewel in the crown. The only race Joe Public gives a flying monkey's toss about in US open wheel racing.

4. CART has the better series. Mix of courses, no idiots like John Herb stinking up the racetracks, attendances above double figures.

5. IRL will have the better roster very very shortly, assuming the others will jump. which their spinsors (sic) may insist they do. 19 car series? Blimey, even F1 has more...

6. IRL will probably become CART with a dictator, as Tony George has already (a) reneged on his promise to keep IRL US-based - a quite stupid, xenophobic and marginally racist promise anyway - and (b) created a series where there are approximately 0 drivers of the kind the IRL was meant to assist (the Kinsers and Haudenschilds of this world).

7. CART can 'win' if:
7.1 they buy Indy (no chance?)
7.2 IRL continues to haemorrhage viewers and the sponsors pull out
7.3 Bill France switches support and the sponsors flock back to CART
7.4 the leading IRLsters leave for NASCAR/F1.

8. The ultimate result of TG's throwing the dummy because he couldn't get a seat on the management board has been the near destruction of the American single seater scene. Dammit, the Indy 500 is now the 3rd most important event on the Brickyard...

[JBonnier]

I begun to watch CART in the late eighties when Eurosport started to boradcast races. When Stefan Johansson joined the series early nineties I started to pay real attention. What grabbed hold of me was the matchup between the american legends, like Rick Mears, Mario Andretti, Bobby Rahal and the european drivers. The last couple of years the series has evolved into a series for drivers who didn't manage to get to the top. F3000-drivers that failed to convince enough to get an F1-drive or retired F1-drivers who really never shone. I mean, think about last year - the series was a series for a dozen brazilian, a few europeans, with a great deal of races run in Europe. A marketing nightmare if you wanted to market the series in the states or anywhere else for that matter. The real decline began last year with really bad racedirectoring, badly managed races (The riverhazard on Elkhard Lake for instance or the TMS scandal). Fluke results are as interesting to the public as rigged wins for Ferrari.

CART could have been saved, I think it's too late now, by putting itself in the same position as IRL by securing american drivers. American drivers is a necessity to market the series in the states. IRL:s strong point is not the technical regulations, it's the fact that they have american drivers competing. I also think american drivers are essential to keep the interest alive for europeans. I doubt the CART-drviers themselves are willing to bet on another season in CART. Guys like Andretti, Tracy, Franchitti and Brack, do they really want to take the gamble to sign for antoher season of CART? Some of them will take a long hard look at IRL and some of them will decide to go to IRL. The ball is rolling and it's not slowing down.


JBonnier