35 replies to this topic

[Buford]

Check out this site. Great F1 photos. You can start with 1950 and go right through the years.

http://www.ifrance.c...GT/IndexGal.htm

[Ray Bell]

Neat, Buford...

Barry Boor will surely like the 1966 images...

[Vitesse2]

Some good stuff in 62 too - colour pic of Jack Lewis in the Gilby at the Karussel, for example ....

And that shot of Dan at Spa in the rain in 66 is excellent!

[Roger Clark]

Originally posted by Vitesse2
Some good stuff in 62 too - colour pic of Jack Lewis in the Gilby at the Karussel, for example ....

Keith Greene?

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by Roger Clark


Keith Greene?

OOPS! Keith Greene indeed - there's a picture of Lewis' Cooper too ...

[FredF1]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Neat, Buford...

Barry Boor will surely like the 1966 images...

I think he'll like the Zeltweg 1972 pics even more....

;)

[Keir]

Very nice site, could stay there all day!!!

[David McKinney]

I particularly liked the shot of Hawthorn at Buenos Aires in 1954 - a hitherto undiscovered Dino prototype?

[McRonalds]

I rather think it's Monza 1958!

It's strange to see the ways pictures go in the internet. Some of the pictures (especially some Indies) in this gallery I have scanned about 1 year ago and sent them to ONE(!!) guy who ran an internetsite at that time. I have made some signs on the pics to recognize them again later. No I find these picture on that page. Strange way...

[fines]

Originally posted by David McKinney
I particularly liked the shot of Hawthorn at Buenos Aires in 1954 - a hitherto undiscovered Dino prototype?

A secret try-out in practice perhaps, because MH is chasing JMF in his regular mount on the next pic...

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by FredF1
I think he'll like the Zeltweg 1972 pics even more....

For sure his cousin will...



Wonder how that one got there? ... specially if you reflect on McRonalds' post...

[cryo]

Nice site

[Barry Boor]

I guess this site is going to cause some trouble in the same way that Motor Racing Retro did.

I cannot believe that the owners of the site are the owners of all the pictures.

This Connew image was first seen on the back page of a part work called 'On 4 Wheels', which was produced around 1974-5 (I think). I have them all, bound and used often for mechanical references by pupils at school following an auto engineering course.

It would be hard to believe that the picture is actually owned by the (presumably) French people who built the site, and I see no accreditation on any images.

[Felix Muelas]

Originally posted by Barry Boor
I guess this site is going to cause some trouble in the same way that Motor Racing Retro did.
I cannot believe that the owners of the site are the owners of all the pictures.

Barry, you are right. On both instances.
We only have to wait a couple of months and a wonderful CD with images will be offered for sale. Wanna bet?

I really find difficult to swallow people who refuse to say thank you. In some cases even whispering itwould be acceptable...but just try to call their attention on that!

As of today, I have not yet discovered if that is part of a philosophy or is simply bad education.
In any case I know these people speak another language. They actually use the same words but give them different meaning.
Or maybe it is us, the ones with a problem... :

[Buford]

Yeah I never understood why people do not have the common courtesy to speak English so I can understand. Like Steve Martin said, "Those French! They have a different word for EVERYTHING!!!"

[philhitchings]

Originally posted by Keir
Very nice site, could stay there all day!!!

I have done and now I'm in trouble from my boss

[jmp85]

1, no need to harp on the french.

2, the webmaster is a participant (and moderator) in the french dailyf1 forum (http://www.dailyf1.c...rum.php?forum=2 for those who want to see what the guy's made of). he's definitely an amateur doing this on the side, and i would be extremely surprised if he were to make a CD with pictures; believe me when i say he doesn't need the extra income. additionally, the server (www.ifrance.com) is a free server for amateur websites (for example, i have an account with them), not a server you have to pay "rent" to. finally, the main point of his website is for statistics and stories about past champions (sort of a french dennis david). his email is on the site though, contact him if you feel cheated.

sincerely, jmp85

[luisfelipetrigo]

Gracias Buford

Very enjoyable ... several images of Pedro Rodriguez, Ricardo Rodriguez and one of Moises Solana
I have only been able to get to 1969

[pedro]

Might I suggest that we enjoy this site while we can, because pretty soon the copyright-whingers will start carping on, then the threats of legal action will begin, and before we know it, the site will disappear from the web.

We've had the copyright debate before, and I don't intend to open it again, but I would just say one thing:

Sites like this are a valuable resource. We need sites like this. We need sites better and more comprehensive than this. We need sites like this to be linked to sites like Darren's results site, so that one day we might have an internet resource which not only details every GP car ever to have raced anywhere, but also includes a picture of its every appearence.

It won't happen, of course. At least not legally. Just try to calculate just how many pictures that would involve. And just imagine if every copyright holder asks for a nominal £1 for a picture. It would be prohibitively expensive even to contemplate.

So, let's stop whining about copyright and give this site's publishers our wholeharted support. Just one little quibble, though. Did Grand Prix racing only begin in 1950?

[rdrcr]

Very nice site... Thanks Buford!

Might I suggest that we enjoy this site while we can, because pretty soon the copyright-whingers will start carping on, then the threats of legal action will begin, and before we know it, the site will disappear from the web...

Just copy your favorites, what great screen savers they make... Thank goodness hard drive space is cheap now-a-days.

[Doug Nye]

Originally posted by pedro
Might I suggest that we enjoy this site while we can, because pretty soon the copyright-whingers will start carping on, then the threats of legal action will begin, and before we know it, the site will disappear from the web.

We've had the copyright debate before, and I don't intend to open it again, but I would just say one thing:

Sites like this are a valuable resource. We need sites like this. We need sites better and more comprehensive than this. We need sites like this to be linked to sites like Darren's results site, so that one day we might have an internet resource which not only details every GP car ever to have raced anywhere, but also includes a picture of its every appearence.

It won't happen, of course. At least not legally. Just try to calculate just how many pictures that would involve. And just imagine if every copyright holder asks for a nominal £1 for a picture. It would be prohibitively expensive even to contemplate.

So, let's stop whining about copyright and give this site's publishers our wholeharted support. Just one little quibble, though. Did Grand Prix racing only begin in 1950?

Aw ----! I have no other choice but to make myself unpopular...again. If they'd only asked...

DCN

[pedro]

Doug - I wasn't thinking of you particularly whan I mentioned whingers! You've made some great pictures public via TNF, with the common sense proviso - look, enjoy, but don't use for profit. I've no argument with that.

And asking for permission is fair enough too. But I wonder, if this guy has been collecting pics for years, he probably hasn't any idea where most of the pics came from, or who to ask.

I notice the MMR site is slowly resurecting itself, crediting sources this time, so maybe this is the best compromise - for the website publishers to credit copyright holders, and for copyright holders to wiave payment for a site which would be of benrfit to all?

[rdrcr]

Regarding the use or misuse of others materials, be it photos or copy...

Some sort of recognition would be warranted if the person knows of the materials author or origin... and if they are to be used for profit then some sort of royalty should be paid.

However, the Internet has changed the way material is being handled. It's a totally free system, the Internet and controlling it appears to be just about impossible. It took the US government over a year to shut down Napster... though there are pier to pier suppliers out there now that are invincible.

If one has material that is published and if another buys that material and has a scanner and then broadcasts that material over the Internet without so much as a thank you, then the onus is upon the originator of the material to seek his just compensation.

It's a tough deal, but that's the way it is.

[Rob Ryder]

Nothing to do with the preceding comments on copyright, but a question about two of the images in this site...

Check the 1966 Mexican Grand Prix... there are two pictures of Ginther in the Honda, one carrying No.11 and the other No.12 .

In the background of both pictures can be seen the Cooper's (No 7 & 8) with Mexico numbers and both images look like they are from the race.

Records show that Pedro Rodriguez had No.11 on a Lotus 33 so has anyone any ideas about the these pictures and the two different numbers on the Honda?

Rob

[McRonalds]

Phantastic mystery - I can't solve it at the moment. I have pictures showing pedro Rodriguez #11 Lotus following Jim Clark's #1 Lotus 43. If you look close at the with Ginthr carrying #11 you can see the Rodriguez Lotus in the background (tha last car) and I think I too has #11. Somethings terribly wrong here...

[Rob Ryder]

More information on the two Ginther/Honda pictures from 1966 Mexico.

When I got home I checked my copy of Motor Sport Magazine from December 1966 and the actual 'mystery picture' of No.11 is in the centre 'Pictorial Review'.... but it has No.12

It looks as though the picture in the website with Ginther carrying No.11 has been electronically 'doctored'. Checking pictures of the other Honda numbers used in USA and Mexico of 1966 I found that the number one was always a straight vertical bar and not '1' as they are in the picture.

I wonder who 'doctored' the picture and why?

Still puzzled...

Rob

[Ray Bell]

Hmmm... a mystery.

But look at the clue here...

Originally posted by McRonalds
Some of the pictures (especially some Indies) in this gallery I have scanned about 1 year ago and sent them to ONE (!!) guy who ran an internet site at that time. I have made some signs on the pics to recognize them again later. Now I find these picture on that page.

Not that I'm saying McRonalds provided this particular shot, but that somebody may have done it deliberately feeling the pics might be misused?

Maybe McRonalds can clarify his 'signs' for us?

[Felix Muelas]

I don´t know what McRonalds will do about your suggestion, Ray but let me just mention that having scanned myself some of the shots that now appear on that (perfectly unknown to me until yesterday) site I very well know what signs I have placed, randomly, in "mines". (And no, I have nothing to do with those particular ones)

I am not sure if I will be tempted enough to make those -the signs- public, to be honest. So far it has been (as it was in the case of the "copy-pasters" who "handled" the late Dennis Clayton files without even acknowledging receipt and found themselves unable to explain what the hell was Jorge de Bagration doing in the list of racing drivers having been part of a 1974 WC F1 race) almost a private affair. I know who is using my job to his benefit, I cannot avoid it but I feel legitimated to request an apology or an acknowledgement.

Maybe that is what pedro calls being one of the copyright-whingers . Exactly the contrary of how I see it, btw...

[oldtimer]

Buford, many, many thanks for making us awareof a great site.

It's going to take hours to work through that lot, but in the meantime, I would like to draw attention to the 1958 Beunos Aries picture of Fangio and Hawthorn having a big go at each other. I know, I know, I'm a Hawthorn fan, but the shot is a real reminder of what a scrapper he was, and how well he could control understeering drifts in the Dino. And how intimidating Fangio could look when engaged in a scrap.

Looking back as a 'nostalgateer', it doesn't look as Fangio was being bothered by turbulence or other aerodynamic effects. And I very much doubt that someone would want to fiddle with the picture. Lastly, I note the year is called 'Le fin d'epoque'. Which could take us to another thread.

[Rob Ryder]

I have supplied numerous scanned images to various people for use both on web-sites (FORIX, 8W and Motor Racing Retro etc.) and also for private collections. When I send images I always give the source information (book or magazine) and explain that issues of copyright are to be resolved by the recipient.

I take the point regarding images being used without consent, and I feel that modifying scanned images so that they can be identified could be acceptable. The question is to what extent should an image be modified?

Addition of a name - OK.
Addition of a watermark - OK.
Slight alteration to the background - OK.
Changing the image so that it is historically incorrect - unacceptable in my opinion.

If this kind of change is employed it would be better to refuse to supply of images in the first instance than give someone flawed information.

Maybe in 10 years time someone will look at just such an image from the 2002 Austrian Grand Prix and see that Ferrari No.2 beat Ferrari No.1 by a few metres?? ;)

Rob

[ensign14]

Cartographers tend to include deliberate mistakes or additions in maps so that they can determine whether someone has simply copied them rather than creating their own map. These signs include making a road straight when there is a slight curve (or vice versa) putting a name on an unnamed site, adding a misplaced apostrophe etc. The cartographers do not tell you what they are, for obvious reasons; there have been some big cases about ripped off maps identified by these little quirks. I understand there is a current case about a map used on the Euro without the copyright holders' permission (personally, I would order every Euro to be destroyed - little englander ensign14).

But there are shots in books I have seen which DEFINITELY seem doctored, especially from Indy in the 1920s and 1930s, to make crashes seem more spectacular, or to add numbers to cars (Slim Corum's winner shot from 1925 aleways looks suspect to me).

[fines]

Originally posted by ensign14
Slim Corum's winner shot from 1925 aleways looks suspect to me.

I'm pretty sure the Duesenbergs weren't numbered when the pre-start shots were taken (were those already post-qualifying shots back then?). There are no numbers on Boyer's and DePaolo's cars, and the "10" on Ernie Ansterburg's car was barely visible, and completely different in size and style.

[Jorge Felix]

Talking about pictures, I would like to know if any one of the TNF can tell if the
pictures - fantastic pictures - that once in the past was on line signed as from
The Mother Superior are them from Bernard Cahier / P H Cahier ?

Can any one mention other good professionals - apart from Cahier and Rainer S.
that have published their work like Rainer Schlegelmilch does?

Jorge

P.S. I think this must not be important, but aren't there too many pictures with
wrong identifications?!

[josh.lintz]

A few of these pictures look like they were "taken" (not sure about permissions, however) from Forix. Some nice pictures, though.

As for copyrights, it would be nice if there was some credit. I can't get myself to make an F1 site, because many would call the "Right-click > Save" method a disservice to those who own or lend out the photographs. But where I live (Florida, USA) there is no nice motoring bookstore to wander into, the libraries around town have little interest in non-American motorsport, etc. Not to mention finding some out-of-print books with these pictures is just about impossible on this side of the pond. So finding site like this is helpful, but just not the right thing to do.

Could there be some sort of compromise?

Originally posted by ensign14
Cartographers tend to include deliberate mistakes or additions in maps so that they can determine whether someone has simply copied them rather than creating their own map.

If you ever find yourself on a map on Florida's County Road 835, it will be marked County Road 832 or 846 on nearly every map. My favorite map "error"...whether online, CD-ROM, or print I always seem to find this "mistake". Ignorance or Cheating?

[Vitesse2]

Jorge: "Mother Superior" was connected to Franco Varani's Motor Racing Retro in some way. If they were Cahier images, I'm not surprised if they have disappeared! Even Franco wouldn't have tried to fight them.

And following on from Ensign's post - it's not only cartographers. Some years ago Ian Allan Ltd had to pay a large amount of money to Platform 5 Publishing and withdraw a whole series of trainspotting books after Platform 5 proved that Ian Allan had just slavishly copied their own books, including several deliberate mistakes. And about the same time, romance publishers Mills & Boon received complaints from readers that they had unwittingly republished several books which had originally appeared on their own list 15-20 years before - the author had just resubmitted the same manuscripts!

[ensign14]

Originally posted by josh.lintz

If you ever find yourself on a map on Florida's County Road 835, it will be marked County Road 832 or 846 on nearly every map. My favorite map "error"...whether online, CD-ROM, or print I always seem to find this "mistake". Ignorance or Cheating?

Maybe the road signs are wrong! Cartographers wouldn't actively mislead, otherwise people could get lost, which is why the 'mistakes' are always minor so that it does not confound mapreading