Sorry if this has been discussed before; I did a quick search and found only references to this technology without a discussion of it.
A friend of mine recently told me about Coates Engine and their valveless engine.
Since, as I understand it, the reciprocating mass of the valve is the primary thing preventing F1 engines from spinning faster, wouldn't completely eliminating them like the Coates system does allow the engines to rotate much faster and output more power? What do all of you think?
Valveless Engines and F1
Started by
DataFly
, Jun 27 2002 21:38
6 replies to this topic
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#2
Top Fuel F1
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Posted 27 June 2002 - 22:02
Originally posted by DataFly
Since, as I understand it, the reciprocating mass of the valve is the primary thing preventing F1 engines from spinning faster,
Re: http://atlasf1.com/b...t=limit AND RPM
DataFly:
There are several Threads in the Tech. Forum involved with discussing what the gating factors are in limiting Revs in F1 engines. The referenced URL is a Poll. However I recommend reading the Replies in the Thread.
Rgds;
#3
Top Fuel F1
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Posted 27 June 2002 - 22:12
Re: http://atlasf1.com/b...ighlight=coates
Take a look at this Thread as well.
Re: http://atlasf1.com/b...ighlight=coates
This too.
Take a look at this Thread as well.
Re: http://atlasf1.com/b...ighlight=coates
This too.
#4
AdamLarnachJr
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Posted 28 June 2002 - 05:11
It's still a valve engine, its just a rotary style valve, I dont think there is anyway around using valves of any sort.
I have personally contacted them regarding their cylinder heads for small block V8's, they said they aren't selling them and won't be, well sheez I wonder why... is it all talk? The engine pictures also look very very old, like pre 80's.
I think the main problem is sealing the exhaust valves, as the lubricant is solid based, I guess it melted all the time.
I have personally contacted them regarding their cylinder heads for small block V8's, they said they aren't selling them and won't be, well sheez I wonder why... is it all talk? The engine pictures also look very very old, like pre 80's.
I think the main problem is sealing the exhaust valves, as the lubricant is solid based, I guess it melted all the time.
#5
12.9:1
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Posted 28 June 2002 - 10:13
Have a look at this disclamer from the Coates site.
DISCLAIMER
Material contained in the Coates International, Ltd. website is for information purposes only and is not intended to constitute an offering of securities in any jurisdiction. Information disclosed under the corporate and securities laws of USA jurisdictions applicable to Coates International, Ltd, is not intended to be in any way qualified, amended, modified or supplemented by the information available in, through or on this website. The information set out in this website should not be used for the purpose of making investment decisions with respect to CIL's securities.
2001-2002 COATES INTERNATIONAL LTD.
(my bold type)
Sealing was always the dasher of hopes, for rotary valves.
It's a real achievement to seal against 1000psi gas pressure, but it's done every day. It's a bit more difficult if you spin the steel sphere, but this is also doable.
It's when you raise the gas temperature to 1650c, cut ports into the sphere, (so the edge of the port, crosses the lip of the seal with every rotation) and to top it off, must not have any lubricant fowling the air! - - then things get out of hand.
The most successful rotary valve, - Frank Aspin's lifetime avocation, had a conical combustion chamber (like a funnel sitting on top of the cylinder, rotating about it's vertical axis) with ports in it's sides, and stout bearings above, it actually worked very well, power and efficiency wise, sadly it burned quite alot of oil .
Perhaps with today's anti-friction coatings...........
Max, I fear would never allow it
.
DISCLAIMER
Material contained in the Coates International, Ltd. website is for information purposes only and is not intended to constitute an offering of securities in any jurisdiction. Information disclosed under the corporate and securities laws of USA jurisdictions applicable to Coates International, Ltd, is not intended to be in any way qualified, amended, modified or supplemented by the information available in, through or on this website. The information set out in this website should not be used for the purpose of making investment decisions with respect to CIL's securities.
2001-2002 COATES INTERNATIONAL LTD.
(my bold type)
Sealing was always the dasher of hopes, for rotary valves.
It's a real achievement to seal against 1000psi gas pressure, but it's done every day. It's a bit more difficult if you spin the steel sphere, but this is also doable.
It's when you raise the gas temperature to 1650c, cut ports into the sphere, (so the edge of the port, crosses the lip of the seal with every rotation) and to top it off, must not have any lubricant fowling the air! - - then things get out of hand.
The most successful rotary valve, - Frank Aspin's lifetime avocation, had a conical combustion chamber (like a funnel sitting on top of the cylinder, rotating about it's vertical axis) with ports in it's sides, and stout bearings above, it actually worked very well, power and efficiency wise, sadly it burned quite alot of oil .
Perhaps with today's anti-friction coatings...........
Max, I fear would never allow it
.
#6
DataFly
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Posted 29 June 2002 - 23:16
Wasn't a similar problem encountered during the Wankel engine's early days? From what I've read, I get the impression that the difficulty of sealing the rotary compartments nearly led Mazda to cancel the program until they realized that graphite would solve the problem. Couldn't it be used in this application?
#7
AdamLarnachJr
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Posted 30 June 2002 - 03:26
Im sure there are a few materials out there that could do the job, just nobody is willing to release them or are pending some other issues. Coate's has claimed to spin a stock 5.0 sbf to 14200rpm! That's a hella of an achievement, of course I don't believe it however because when in the hell did Ford make small block ford crankshafts that can spin those kinds of speeds, let alone make a factory one that could hold up to 7000? These things weigh 45 pounds at least, thats not including all the other heavier components. 14200rpm with cast pistons and cast iron rods, thats a good one Coates.
Of course, I would love to see this hit the market, but I think a more reliable and more realistic valve system will make its way soon. Sturman Industries is working out the bugs on pneumatic valves for small block fords and chevy engines, they plan on selling the technology to other companies down the road to use in road cars.
Of course, I would love to see this hit the market, but I think a more reliable and more realistic valve system will make its way soon. Sturman Industries is working out the bugs on pneumatic valves for small block fords and chevy engines, they plan on selling the technology to other companies down the road to use in road cars.
