42 replies to this topic

[CSGPR]

Hi

I just read some article about the Lyncar, And now I have become a bit curious regarding the car whereabouts today if it still exist.

I check at Allen Brown's very good website (oldracingcars.com) but regarding the whereabouts of the the Lyncar there was no updates.

So is there anybody who knows about the cars whereabouts. Please throw a line or even better two. A photo of the car in its 1975 look will also be more than welcome.

The Lyncar was just another 1970's "kit car" I know. But I like "kit cars"

Best Regards


CSGPR

[Frank de Jong]

Don't know the whereabouts, but this is a 1975 picture:

[Ferrari_F1_fan_2001]

was it any good in terms of performance/results?

[jarama]

Originally posted by Ferrari_F1_fan_2001
was it any good in terms of performance/results?

The only WDC GP attended by the team in 1975 was the British. The concursant was Pich Plant, the driver Nicholson, while the type of the car & s/n were 006-1.

Nicholson did qualify the car in 26th and last position, 1'22"86, 3"5 slower than Pryce (Shadow) in the PP, while there were two NQ's - Wunderink (Ensign) and Fushida (Maki).

In the race, did finish 17th, 3 laps behind the winner - Emerson Fittipaldi's Lotus.

[ensign14]

Also DNQ'd for John Nicholson at Britain 1974, ahead only of Howden Ganley (Maki), Mike Wilds (private March) and Leo Kinnunen (private Surtees). I think they had one or two NC races.

Had some success in the British series in the late 70s, but the project appeared to be an expeiment of Nicholson's, so we won't know how it would have gone had it been a serious seasons-long effort.

[stavelot]

Originally posted by jarama



In the race, did finish 17th, 3 laps behind the winner - Emerson Fittipaldi's Lotus.

Fittipaldi drove the McLaren M23.

What about John Nicholson. He became later a tuner for Coworth V8, didn't he? When he closed his formula 1 team?

[Richard Jenkins]

John Nicholson is still an engine specialist. He worked with McLaren not that long ago.

[Rainer Nyberg]

More info on the Lyncar effort at http://8w.forix.com/lyntok.html

[Rainer Nyberg]

Despite the 'McLaren' tag, I think the 'Nicholson-McLaren Engineering' company broke its connections with McLaren some twenty years ago.

[Richard Jenkins]

Yes it did, but I recall he was hired as a specialist briefly, around the mid 90's, I think.

[jarama]

Originally posted by stavelot


Fittipaldi drove the McLaren M23.

stavelot,

of course Fittipaldi drove the McLaren M23. It was my fault stating Emerson Fittipaldi's Lotus.

[Barry Boor]

I admire the Lyncar effort. I believe there were several kit car attempts in F1 in the early to mid 1970s.

[Allen Brown]

CSGPR

In January 1976, Nicholson sold the Lyncar to Bobby Howlings who entered it for the Race of Champions in March - later withdrawing because he would not be guaranteed a start. He sold it to Spanish bank manager and hill climber Emilio de Villota to run in the Shellsport European F5000 series. When he acquired his McLaren M23, the Lyncar returned to Lyncar Engineering who advertised it in July and August 1977 as a rolling chassis complete with new spares and a new monocoque.

It was sold to another Spaniard, Herman Herstenburg, who entered it for the penultimate race of the season, at Snetterton in October. With a time 1.7 seconds slower than anybody else, Herstenburg decided not to start that race, but returned for the final race at Brands Hatch two weeks later. He ran much better in practice, qualifying 17th, but crashed at Westfield in the race day warm up session.

The full race history is here.

The car has not been seen since but there are persistent rumours that it is a museum in Spain. Please let me know if you find it.

Allen

[jarama]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Allen Brown
[B]CSGPR

He sold it to Spanish bank manager and hill climber Emilio de Villota to run in the Shellsport European F5000 series.


Allen,

to make your quote as accurate as possible, the racing background of Emilio de Villota before his F5000/F1/FAurora years was in every way as circuit racer, not hill-climber. He started his racing career in the Spanish Renault 8 coupe, then went to the spanish national formulas such as the F-1430 and F-1800 - both of them with Seat-powered monopostos, while the step previous to the Lyncar was the Spanish Circuits Championship, at the wheel of a Ford Capri RS.


Carles.

[Allen Brown]

Thanks!

Allen

[dmj]

Originally posted by Barry Boor
I admire the Lyncar effort. I believe there were several kit car attempts in F1 in the early to mid 1970s.

Really? It sounds like you know something about that. Maybe from personal experience?

[David Beard]

Originally posted by Barry Boor
I admire the Lyncar effort. I believe there were several kit car attempts in F1 in the early to mid 1970s.

The Lyncar is bundled together in my memory with the Trojan and the Token. As for the Connew, I read an article about that on the internet by someone who's name eludes me now ;) . When I found it I posted a link to it in a newsgroup saying it was the most interesting read on F1 I had ever found on the net. Honest

[Felix Muelas]

Originally posted by Allen Brown
...Emilio de Villota to run in the Shellsport European F5000 series...

...It was sold to another Spaniard, Herman Herstenburg...

Allen,
can you please expand on that statement ? Namely on the two parts of it, that I reckon sounds to me like absolute news :
a) a driver by the name of Herman Herstenburg -of which I reckon I have never heard of and
b) Spaniard?

Thanks,
fm

[Allen Brown]

Felix

Didn't you know that I completely invent the contents of all my posts on a Tuesday?

Only kidding!

I just checked the Autosport report for that race and all it says is "... one Herman Herstenberg, a Spaniard with only national races behind him, declined to race the ex-Villota Lyncar-DFV...".

I'm not sure why I spell it "Herstenburg" in my notes - that might be an error or it might be because I had more information at the time from some other source. Also, I don't know why I was so sure he had bought it and hadn't merely hired it from Villota or Risi.

THe F1 Register book shows "Herman Herstinburg" at #80 entered by Escuderia Aryn. I guess those details would have come from Duncan Rabagliati's incredible program collection. He did a 1m 7.1s they say.

Does anyone have the Motoring News report for that race?

Allen

[BANZI]

Don't know the whereabouts, but this is a 1975 picture:






Looks like Silverstone 75 to me, my first ever Grand Prix...

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by Allen Brown
Does anyone have the Motoring News report for that race?
Allen

I have a MN report of a Gp8 race at Snett on 1 or 2 Oct 1977 - is that the one you mean?
No mention of any Lyncars or Herstenbergs or anything like that

[Allen Brown]

Originally posted by David McKinney

I have a MN report of a Gp8 race at Snett on 1 or 2 Oct 1977 - is that the one you mean?
No mention of any Lyncars or Herstenbergs or anything like that

David

Thanks for looking it up. So this is where the trail appears to run out...

Allen

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by Frank de Jong
Don't know the whereabouts, but this is a 1975 picture:

Interesting pic - that airbox looks rather McLaren M19 and isn't the one I remember seeing pics of the Lyncar with - I know it as having a taller, much squarer box - was that a later or earlier fitting?

pete

[Rob Ryder]

Pete

The picture from 1975 is one of mine ;) , taken at Silverstone during practice for the British Grand Prix.

The larger airbox on the Lyncar 006 was the earlier in it's life. Here is another of my pictures (poor quality ), this time the 1974 British GP at Brands. Is this the airbox you remember?

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by Rob Ryder
Pete

The picture from 1975 is one of mine ;) , taken at Silverstone during practice for the British Grand Prix.

The larger airbox on the Lyncar 006 was the earlier in it's life. Here is another of my pictures (poor quality ), this time the 1974 British GP at Brands. Is this the airbox you remember?

That's the bunny! Looked like a cross between Tyrrell 006 and a removal van!

pete

[Rob Ryder]

I have re-started this threat because I am confused. Initially I thought that Lyncar only built one F1 chassis (006), but after reading Mike Lawrence's book I realised there were two (006 & 007). Even though Lawrence states 006 in 1974 and 007 in 1975 I tried to verify which chassis were used for the six Lyncar appearances in F1, and that is where I became confused. The various sources available to me have conflicting information… here is what I have found.

Sources: MS=Motor Sport magazine, AC= Autocourse, DB= Databook 1997, ORC= Oldracingcars.com, GEL=GEL Motorsport

1974 Race of Champions
006 - ORC
007 - MS, AC, Sheldon

1974 International Trophy
006 - ORC
007 - MS, AC, Sheldon

1974 British GP
006 - AC, DB, FORIX, GEL, ORC
007 - MS, Sheldon

1975 Race of Champions
006 - All sources

1975 International Trophy
006 - All sources

1975 British GP
006 - DB, FORIX, ORC, GEL
007 - MS, AC. Sheldon


007 raced before 006 in some sources

If anyone can shed some light on this, and maybe even highlight the differences between 006 and 007 I would be delighted.

Thanks

Rob

[Racer.Demon]

Rob: adding to the confusion, you could extend your query to the 1976 and '77 Shellsport series, in which a car also competed in the hands of Villota and the aforementioned Herman Herstinburg, or Herstenburg, or Herstenberg, depending on which source.

ORC has listed 006 for all of these participations, while others - such as our own Jeremy Jackson - claim 007 was used for these forays. Perhaps Allen and Jeremy could elaborate on their sources.

[Allen Brown]

There was only one Lyncar. I'm 99% certain of that.

Two tubs were originally ordered from Maurice Gomm and the first of these arrived at the end of November 1973. The first car, in the livery of Drury's Pinch Plant Hire company, was completed at the end of February and three races were planned for 1974, the two British non-championship races and the British GP. A spare tub was already finished by February and the original plan was for a second car to be completed for use in the GP. The team's financial constraints meant that it was highly unlikely they bothered to build the second car.

I heard a story somewhere that the second tub was later chopped up by Gomm as it hadn't been paid for. However, an advert for the Lyncar in July 1977 refers to a spare monocoque.

Also, I'm pretty sure that 006 is the right number for the F1 car. The 007 was a 1975 Atlantic car with the 008 not appearing until 1978, Martin Slater having been concentrating on prepartion work in the meantime. If a second 006 had been built, it would probably have been "006/2".

BTW, 001 was a 1972 Atlantic car for Mike Endean, 002 and 003 were 1972 Atlantic cars for Nicholson, 004 was David Good's 1973 hillclimb car and 005 was Nicholson's 1973 Atlantic car.

I have a list of my sources but I'm not sure which part of the story came from which source. Try: Autosport (Nov 1973, 7 Mar 1974 p5, 31 Oct 1974 pp15-17, 3 Jul 1975 p57, 28 Aug 1975 p58, 4 Sep 1975 p83, 6 Nov 1975 p60, 22 Jan 1976 p3, 29 Jan 1976 p50, 22 Apr 1976 p47 and 7 Jul 1977 p62) and Motor Racing Directory (Kettlewell 1979 edition, p30).

Allen

[CSGPR]

Thanks Allen

I just found an old Autosport magazine with an article about the car, and like you I'm convinced that there is only one Lyncar.

Regards

[Rob Ryder]

Allen

Thanks for the detailed information, it seems that my first impression that there was only one car was correct. I attended all six F1 meetings that the Lyncar raced, and my slides and photos are labelled '006'. I assume I took this from either the official programs, or the Autosport of the time (neither of which I kept, DAMN!).

The question is, why the designation of '007' in usually reliable sources like Sheldon and Autocourse?

As to CSGPR's suggestion to look at the 1977 and 1978 Shellsport and Aurora series.. I have a big enough headache with only 6 F1 appearances .

Rob

[Felix Muelas]

Some more pictures to illustrate the thread...





Felix

[Barry Boor]

This car must surely be one of the main contenders, with the first F1 Ligier, in the 'Ugliest Airbox' competition.

[Jeremy Jackson]

Hi chaps,

I assumed there was only a single Lyncar F1 chassis, and Autosport's data for the 1974 British GP had the chassis as "F1-007". Since Sheldon also had this number throughout the cars career, that's what I used. BTW referring to your list Rob, Sheldon uses 007 for the 75 RoC & international Trophy races.

Cheers

Jeremy

[David Beard]

Just stumbled upon this in the archives...International Trophy 74 I think

[Rob Ryder]

Great pic David, and correct on the race identification.. 1974 International Trophy.

In the other two races where the Lyncar carried No.29 the number in the nose was angled to the opposite side.

Rob

[Scuderia Pinguino]

Lyncar car still exists with Martin Slater still at the helm. He has undertaken many interesting projects including C2, Renault single seaters and a good looking GT car for an American Customer who was going to put it into production.

Martin still has the bones of the second GT car (currently for sale)
He is a very talented engineer who makes a lot of parts for us and can draw, machine, design, fabricate almost anything you can dream of!

[arttidesco]

Right at the bottom of this link is a picture of a car on the Lyncar stand with what looks like a DFV installed at the Racing Car show at Earl's Court in 1973, I once saw this car in a newspaper and cut out the picture to save, however I appear to have lost the picture and am wondering if any one remembers what this Ski Yoghourt sponsored car was, if it ever ran and what has happened to it since ?

It bears a resemblance to John Nicholson's 1972 F3 Lyncar seen here.

[alansart]

This car must surely be one of the main contenders, with the first F1 Ligier, in the 'Ugliest Airbox' competition.

I think you may be right



This must be the oldest post I have replied to!

Edited by alansart, 27 June 2010 - 21:07.

[arttidesco]

Right at the bottom of this link is a picture of a car on the Lyncar stand with what looks like a DFV installed at the Racing Car show at Earl's Court in 1973, I once saw this car in a newspaper and cut out the picture to save, however I appear to have lost the picture and am wondering if any one remembers what this Ski Yoghourt sponsored car was, if it ever ran and what has happened to it since ?

It bears a resemblance to John Nicholson's 1972 F3 Lyncar seen here.

Thanks to 10/10ths and 8W looks like the car on the Lyncar stand at the 1973 Racing Car Show was indeed the DFV powered 004 sold to David Good.

Does anyone have any pictures of David driving it on the hills ?

[Richard Jenkins]

Lyncar car still exists with Martin Slater still at the helm. He has undertaken many interesting projects including C2, Renault single seaters and a good looking GT car for an American Customer who was going to put it into production.

Martin still has the bones of the second GT car (currently for sale)
He is a very talented engineer who makes a lot of parts for us and can draw, machine, design, fabricate almost anything you can dream of!

 

Sadly, I have discovered Martin died in December 2021. He was still 'tinkering about' in his workshop in Wales, well into his 80's.

[TerryS]

Here is a recent ad for the Lyncar Formula Atlantic car

 

Racecarsdirect.com - Lyncar Formula Atlantic

[opplock]

Sadly, I have discovered Martin died in December 2021. He was still 'tinkering about' in his workshop in Wales, well into his 80's.

 

Marcus Pye wrote an obituary for the 6th January 2022 edition of Autosport. Can be read on pressreader.com. 

 

https://www.pressrea...281711207992386

Edited by opplock, 24 August 2022 - 08:22.

[Richard Jenkins]

Marcus Pye wrote an obituary for the 6th January 2022 edition of Autosport. Can be read on pressreader.com.

https://www.pressrea...281711207992386

Thanks. Can't believe no-one picked up on it anywhere other than Marcus.