18 replies to this topic

[Tomecek]

Hi folks!
If you were watching 24hrs Motobikes at Spa-Francorchamps you are surely noticed few changes:
1. Gravel outside Eau Rouge (where Jacques Villeneuve (and Zonta?) heavily crashed in Friday practise 1998 I guess) was replaced by tarmac.
2. Gravel outside Blanchimont (where Luciano Burti heavily crashed in 2001 race) was replaced by tarmac.
3. From middle of famous Bus stop bends new track (somelike new pit entry).
(4. Probably exit from Bus stop is a little bit wider, but I am not sure about it.)

Unfortunately I have not found some pictures yet but I was discussing it with friend within live coverage so I am sure I am not mistaken. What's your opinion?!

[Alien]

M opinion is that tarmac is good at some places, specially when there is a lot of space between the track and the barriers. But imagine a scenario where there is wet weather and someone loses the front wing like burti did last year. The tarmac wont do it´s job, but i hope that FIA has made a thorough comparison between the two.

[MPea3]

aren't gravel traps supposed to be replaced with tarmac everywhere eventually? as i remember, during the stoppage at spa last year after burti's accident, they talked about the area outside of blanchimont being due for replacement and how that might have helped slow the car down (on the speedvision feed).

maybe the F1 course of the future will be a large expanse of tarmac, say 1 mile by 2 miles, with the track's edges painted onto it and curbs at the apexes. all the corners can have an even radius, and there wouldn't have to be any elevation changes.

oh wait... i meant that as a joke, and it just dawned on me that it's actually happening... :

[BRG]

Originally posted by MPea3
maybe the F1 course of the future will be a large expanse of tarmac, say 1 mile by 2 miles, with the track's edges painted onto it and curbs at the apexes. all the corners can have an even radius, and there wouldn't have to be any elevation changes.

Wasn't that the Caesar's Palace Grand Prix course in Las Vegas??

[philhitchings]

Eau rouge gravel was replaced last year as I rememeber. the main thing though is that the circuit itself isn't lost, so as far as I am concerned they can put as much tarmac out side the island as they like as long as we still have spa

[Rene]

Originally posted by philhitchings
Eau rouge gravel was replaced last year as I rememeber. the main thing though is that the circuit itself isn't lost, so as far as I am concerned they can put as much tarmac out side the island as they like as long as we still have spa

Given the tabacco ban set to come into effect July 31, 2003, this may well be our last race at Spa...so enjoy it..

[Toyoter]

Originally posted by Rene


Given the tabacco ban set to come into effect July 31, 2003, this may well be our last race at Spa...so enjoy it..

I can't even imagine an F1 season without Spa. Can the Belgian govm't really be that stupid?

[Rene]

Source:http://www.grandprix...ns/ns06628.html

Belgian politicians screw things up once again

THE politicians of Belgium have a talent for trying to drive Grand Prix racing out of the country. The circuit has remained part of the F1 calendar because it is a such a good circuit and because Bernie Ecclestone had a financial interest in the track.

But the politicians seem intent on screwing everything up and are once again campaigning to ban tobacco advertising, despite the fact that the F1 circus is committed to stopping tobacco advertising in the autumn of 2006. The Belgians are pushing through legislation to ban tobacco advertising from July 31, 2003 and the government seems unwilling to compromise.

There have been attempts by members of the parliament to introduce amendments to the anti-tobacco bill but these have failed to achieve the modification desired, to allow tobacco advertising for world class events in Belgium between the autumn of 2003 and the end of 2006. A proposal was made to allow tobacco advertising for the next three years but this was rejected. It is worth noting that during the discussions two significant things happened: a Belgian senator pointed out that without the Grand Prix it is unlikely that the Spa-Francorchamps circuit will survive while another suggested that after Spa's F1 program has collapsed there might be a chance for Zolder to take over. This is about as likely to happen as there being a Grand Prix in Port Moresby in Papua New Guinea.

It may be that the stupidity of the Belgian politicians will deprive the World Championship of the Spa circuit and at the same time provide an opportunity for a new race in Asia or the Middle East.

I hope it doesn't happen

[Don Capps]

Originally posted by Toyoter
I can't even imagine an F1 season without Spa. Can the Belgian govm't really be that stupid?

Perhaps you have it backwards: how can F1 be that stupid? Then again, it works very hard at that quite often. Besides, Spa was doomed anyway, F1 is/was simply trying to find an excuse to replace it with a race elsewhere.

[Toyoter]

I must admit that I'm a bit mystified by this situation. What's the difference between Belgium not allowing tobacco advertising and Britain now allowing it? Can't the cars just run without the tobacco logos like they do at other European circuits? What am I missing here? Does Spa currently receive a large amount of funding from a tobacco company?

[Rene]

Originally posted by Toyoter
I must admit that I'm a bit mystified by this situation. What's the difference between Belgium not allowing tobacco advertising and Britain now allowing it? Can't the cars just run without the tobacco logos like they do at other European circuits? What am I missing here? Does Spa currently receive a large amount of funding from a tobacco company?

Marlboro is the primary sponsor of the Belgium GP...

[Locai]

OK, I may be about to say something quite blasphemous (<--had to look that one up), but IF F1 were to drop Spa, what would be the chances of CART, ALMS, WSB, or MotoGP racing there? At least a CART race would keep open-wheel racing alive at Spa.

Might this also be something that the automakers may pressure Bernie to reconsider? I would think that the automakers would want to keep on racing at a track as historic as Spa.

[Vunz]

Tobacco advertising hasn't been allowed in Britain and France for many years now and I remember it being banned in Germany as well for some time. Now the Belgian government is considering to ban it, it becomes a big issue.

Why didn't F1 drop Silverstone, Magny-Cours or at least one of the German tracks before, why do they have to axe the best track on the calender?

In France they don't even allow advertising for alcoholic beverages .

[Liam]

It may be that the stupidity of the Belgian politicians will deprive the World Championship of the Spa circuit and at the same time provide an opportunity for a new race in Asia or the Middle East.

Perhaps in Papua New Guinea? Port Moresby would be good.

Not having Spa would be a great shame for F1. It's hard to see why a circuit like Spa cannot find a replacement for Marlboro? It has to be one of the most popular F1 races, and an association with it would surely be better than almost any other race.
Is it the fact it's not a small, enclosed, clinical little track where the corporate types might not be able to land their helicopters, it might rain, the cars only pass by the hospitality tent 45 times instead of 72, or the fact that they might get a little muddy if they try and go anywhere other than the start line? It would be a little much to take if the best track in the world was lost to F1 to suit a bunch of champagne sipping corperate guest's who can't tell the difference between the FRenault's and the F1 cars.

F1 isn't going to drop Spa, the organiser's, the RACB, are not going to be able to run the race. It's not F1 or the FIA's fault, it's up to the RACB. There isn't, as yet, an FIA member body in Belgium that would take on the responsibility of running the Belgian GP, so the FIA would have no choice in not holding one.

Essentially the same thing happened in '67 with France. The previous race organisers, who had organised the French GP, the oldest GP race every year found they could not run the GP in '67 as they didn't have a track, I think. In that case the FIA(or whatever they were called at the time) was able to ask the ACO, who run Le Mans to step in, and they held the race at Le Mans Bugatti.

[random]

Originally posted by Vunz
Tobacco advertising hasn't been allowed in Britain and France for many years now and I remember it being banned in Germany as well for some time. Now the Belgian government is considering to ban it, it becomes a big issue.

The sporting bans in England, France and Germany are somewhat different and have been in place for many years. Britain doesn't have a full ban, just a gentleman's agreement not to put livery on the cars. Tobacco hoardings are still seen at the British GP. France and Germany have had their bans in place for many years, before the talk of a worldwide ban. (as far as I know, tobacco "advertising" is still perfectly legal in those countries).

This is all entirely the fault of the Belgian politicians. These politicians fully realize that the European Union, FIA and World Health Organization are working to unify a worldwide ban at the end of 2006. This will allow the F1 teams and venues to make a gradual move away from tobacco sponsorship. If the FIA were to allow Belgium to set a ban on their own, other countries could quickly follow and leave no venues legal for tobacco sponsorship.

Most of the large F1 team sponsors (and many of the venue sponsors) are tobacco companies. If most of the host countries were to ban tobacco sponsorship, tobacco sponsors would immediately leave the sport. A lot of the teams are in financial straights now, an immediate pullout of tobacco money would probably kill over 1/2 the field and with it the sport of F1 as we know it.

Even though I love Spa, if Belgium's politicians can't wait 3.5 years, they don't deserve to have grand prix. It's not worth the potential loss to the sport.

[Mila]

seeing the direction this thread is taking, I'd like to ask if perhaps they could get around the advertising ban by replacing gravel traps with pits of tobacco?

[philhitchings]

I may be mistaken (see sig ;) ) but when this issue was last raised (tobacco not gravel) I rememeber reading that it is the local Waloon govt that is trying to impose the tobacco ban not the national assembly. At the time I thought that the waloons were risking cutting off their noses to spite their faces. It appears that I may have been correct in my assumptions

[Fizzicist]

Given the inevitability of no tobacco advertising (which seems pointless in itself, it doesn't make people go and smoke), and the fact that other GP's survive without it, why should Spa get the axe? Surelly it's not because it's a challenging, non conformist track?

Oh yeah, how dumb am I - Bernie can't get his helicopter in within 45 seconds thus it doesn't deserve GP status.

scuse me I'm off for a cancer stick...just seen a mcLaren...

[dEMoN]

Originally posted by Tomecek
Hi folks!
If you were watching 24hrs Motobikes at Spa-Francorchamps you are surely noticed few changes:
1. Gravel outside Eau Rouge (where Jacques Villeneuve (and Zonta?) heavily crashed in Friday practise 1998 I guess) was replaced by tarmac.
2. Gravel outside Blanchimont (where Luciano Burti heavily crashed in 2001 race) was replaced by tarmac.
3. From middle of famous Bus stop bends new track (somelike new pit entry).
(4. Probably exit from Bus stop is a little bit wider, but I am not sure about it.)

Unfortunately I have not found some pictures yet but I was discussing it with friend within live coverage so I am sure I am not mistaken. What's your opinion?!

Check out last year...

http://users.skynet....01/vendredi.htm
http://users.skynet....2001/samedi.htm
http://users.skynet....01/dimanche.htm