91 replies to this topic

[nitro]

micheal schumacher,,,,jean alesi....n jarno trulli....some of the fastest men in f1 love this sedan the fiat 500..any one knows y....

[dmj]

It must be an interesting car to drive. A friend of mine had 12 at a time... He even managed to steal "best of show" award from Italians at one Venice Fiat 500 show. Probably as demanding as winning Retro Mille Miglia if you aren't Italian.

[Ray Bell]

If you mean the fifties/sixties rear engined twin model....

Last popular car with a crash box (no synchromesh)... fun to drive... made the driver work... surprised the natives when he did...

Wolf might be able to help here.

[Hans Etzrodt]

They use these cars for shopping trips since they don't want their expensive sleighs for daily use at the grocery store. Its also easier to find a parking place for the compact 500, which is suitable for teaching their kids how to drive.;)

[Milan Fistonic]

From a 1959 road test in The Autocar.


Maximum speed

1st - 18 mph
2nd - 27 mph
3rd - 44 mph
4th - 57 mph (mean), 61 mph (best)

Acceleration

0 - 10 mph - 2.1 sec
0 - 20 mph - 5.9 sec
0 - 30 mph - 12.1 sec
0 - 40 mph - 21.6 sec

Standing quarter mile - 29.0 sec

What a rocket!

[Ray Bell]

Late one night at Warwick Farm, when sensible people had gone home and the pits were dimly lit and senseless conversations were taking place...

Lyn Vincent (wife of, later widow of Alan Vincent, then soon enough the late Lyn Vincent) told me of her driving round the suburbs in a Fiat 500.

A totally animated conversation, about good roads for driving, about neighbours with sprinklers that sprayed the road on bends, about crash gearboxes and just having fun motoring.

To be honest, I wish I'd had another chance to spend time talking to Lyn late into the night at Warwick Farm... but I never did and I'll never forget that conversation.

[dbw]

drive one!!!then perhaps you'll see....a good 500 on bald tires inflated to the max can easily be driven at 10/10ths all the way to the market or the local cafe...fun trailing throttle oversteer,screaming engine,constant gearchanging,not much in the way of brakes..all this and never coming close to the speed limit!!!every walter mitty in a 500 is driving the race of his life..[often with the wife and kids on board]they are great fun....

[prettyface]

This thread is funny. I like to buy 1/18 models every once in a while and last week I went to the shop to look at some hotwheels Ferraris. I was choosing between a Daytona and a 250GT when I decided to check out the bburago aisle. I dropped the Ferraris and took the much cheaper cinquecento (500) home.

Maybe this also happens to the big boys albeit in a greater scale.

[Frank de Jong]

The Fiat 500 was the first car I ever was a passenger in - my uncle collected my mother and myself from the hospital, just after I was born in 1959... don't remember much of it though...

[david_martin]

It should be noted that the wealthy F1 pilots mentioned don't own any old FIAT 500s, they own Abarth 500's, which are rather special indeed.

Carlo Abarth's 595 and later 695cc version of the 500 had very hotly tuned engines (I believe the final 695SS version produced 38ps compared with the original cars 19ps and was good for about 85 mph), and featured strengthened gearbox and clutch, lightweight body panels, larger wheelsand tyres, uprated brakes, and retuned suspension with the trademark rear bonnet louvre jacked open to improve heat dissipation and (supposedly) generate a bit of downforce. The Abarth tuned versions of the 500 are considered highly collectable classic drivers cars, similar to the various Cooper Minis and Gordini Renaults from the same era.

[Evo One]

And..... what about the little Steyr Puchs with FIAT 500 bodies with a much smoother flat twin engine that produced c. 60 BHP. John Bolster reckoned they were more fun than a Mini Cooper.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Evo One
And..... what about the little Steyr Puchs with FIAT 500 bodies with a much smoother flat twin engine that produced c. 60 BHP. John Bolster reckoned they were more fun than a Mini Cooper.

Of course... rear wheel drive!

[David T.]

The Fiat 500 is a real fun to drive - just like the Bianchina - as it will quite easily oversteer, especially on wet surface. The 500 was an exceptional school for at least two generations of Italian everyday drivers. When I attended Henry Morrogh's racing school some years ago, they gave me a Fiat 500 before allowing me to use the Hewland gearbox of the Formula Ford Van Diemen...

[dretceterini]

The 1000 OTR Abarth 2 door sedan is 600 rather than 500 based, but the last version (1971-72) had 118 horsepower!! The Non-OTR version had something like 90 hp...and they weight about 300 pounds less than a Mini...


Stu

[Don Capps]

Hmmmmm, I thought this was about the dear little Topolino until I started reading the posts....

[bobbo]

Originally posted by dbw
drive one!!!then perhaps you'll see....a good 500 on bald tires inflated to the max can easily be driven at 10/10ths all the way to the market or the local cafe...fun trailing throttle oversteer,screaming engine,constant gearchanging,not much in the way of brakes..all this and never coming close to the speed limit!!!every walter mitty in a 500 is driving the race of his life..[often with the wife and kids on board]they are great fun....

I used to drive my 1962 Hillman Minx that way (no kids or wife in those days!). Learned a LOT about oversteer, double clutching (or de-clutching for those of you in the Old Country), reverse lock, spins, backing out of ditches, etc. Had a BALL!

Thanks for reviving some memories, dbw!

Bobbo

[dretceterini]

I love Topolinos (and Fiat 1100s) ; especially the "hot-rods". With a 3 main bearing Giannini bottom end, and a twin cam top end bolted on (Stanguellini, Giannini, and such), a 750cc motor put out something like 70 horsepower, and an 1100cc motor as much as 120 hp!!

In a car with a Gilco tubular chassis, that weighs only 800 pounds wet, they aren't exactly slow...unfortunately, the real cars of thsi type are now worth over $50,000...and some worth over $125,000!

In the 1948 Mille Miglia, an 1100cc car of this type took second OVERALL!!

Stu

[Ozymandias]

My school master had one, last year of school we managed to get it onto the roof of the school, thats 4 floors, which was quiet amusing. apart from that my experience with the car has been very limtited, although I like it alott and people that own it seem to adore it.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Ozymandias
My school master had one, last year of school we managed to get it onto the roof of the school, thats 4 floors, which was quiet amusing...

Maybe it's time for Don to recount the story of the hotel stairs... was it Jean Behra? Anyway, it was about 1958 and all the boys were involved... Moss mentions it in his books... but Don was there, IIRC...

[AS110]

Originally posted by Frank de Jong
The Fiat 500 was the first car I ever was a passenger in - my uncle collected my mother and myself from the hospital, just after I was born in 1959... don't remember much of it though...

Me too! but it was a Mickey Mouse - the Topolino,the year 1953.

[Don Capps]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Maybe it's time for Don to recount the story of the hotel stairs... was it Jean Behra? Anyway, it was about 1958 and all the boys were involved... Moss mentions it in his books... but Don was there, IIRC...

It was at Reims, 1958, and it was 'Arry Schell's little car which was carried up the steps and placed in front of the door of 'Arry's hotel room..... We were just down the hall....

[dretceterini]

Just what one needs; a double hernia the day before driving in a GP...

There is a similar story about a car driven into a swimming pool here in Southern California in the 1960s, but I wasn't there...

Stu

[Carlos Jalife]

Ricardo Rodríguez had one, also called Topolino in Mexico, and he raced it early in his career. The only problem was that the lowest class in racing was of cars up to 1 liter so he gave much advantage to the other guys who raced larger cars.

[D-Type]

This seems the best thread to raise this question on.

Today at a toyfair I bought a Vitesse model of what appears to be a Fiat 500, the 1960's type, not a 'Topolino', and can't place it.

I've googled for Fiat, Abarth, Vitesse and Novolan and all i've come up with is Vitesse catalogue number VLL 118

I don't have a digital camera so will have to describe it:

Model - Fiat 500, but it has an Abarth badge front and rear so maybe a Fiat-Abarth or Abarth
Colour - basically white, right hand side of bonnet is red and white chequers, left hand side is green
Race number - 170
Registration number - 842088 TO - so a Torino registration
Sponsors - "NOVOLAN" in yellow letters front and rear with a logo/badge I can't make out alongside

Any Ideas?


[Edit: bonnet is half grren not half yellow]

[fausto]

Novolan was a very popular sponsor in Italian 60s-early 70s racing, they made seat covers and, maybe, car mats, so probably your model is a true replica.....

[D-Type]

Originally posted by dretceterini
Just what one needs; a double hernia the day before driving in a GP...

There is a similar story about a car driven into a swimming pool here in Southern California in the 1960s, but I wasn't there...

Stu

A certain Robert McGregor Innes Ireland had bet someone that windscreen wipers work under water (they do!). Hertz or Avis were not amused, initially. But, after discussion with Innes, they realised that their claim to 'collect a car from anywhere' applied and they even featured it in advertisments.

The following year when Innes and the GP circus returned to the hotel, they found a 'No Parking' sign floating in the pool.

[Doug Nye]

Originally posted by Don Capps
It was at Reims, 1958, and it was 'Arry Schell's little car which was carried up the steps and placed in front of the door of 'Arry's hotel room..... We were just down the hall....

Yes - but that wasn't a Fiat 500. Topo owners of recent note include Gordon Murray and Pete Stevens, who has had several. (simultaneously).

DCN

[f1steveuk]

I have to say, the only way to see why there is so much fondness for these cars, is to drive one.
I saw the classic BBC clip, Fiat 500 against Ford Galaxy (I think), I was amazed how the little Italian thing kept up. Eventuall I got hold of a 850 twin cylinder, Abarth tuned one with a huge fibre-glass front bumper/spoiler which contained an oil cooler. The boot lid was of the type that was wedged open, for cooling. Crash box, (a lethal hand throttle in addition to the foot throttle) slighty dodgy steering, but every morning on my way to work it would p all over a 3 litre Carlton, driven by someone who worked for a rival garage along the same country lane. It was the only thing that made going to work worthwhile, and the last car I owned where instead of going from a to b, I would go from a to b via q, h , t, and anywhere else with a twisty road, bloody marvelous fun. The offer I recieved was to much to fight..............

[2F-001]

Take a look here http://www.italiaspe...mouse/1108.html for a proposed carbon-composite constructed "Fiat 500" with a 200bhp bike engine...

[Geoff E]

Originally posted by Milan Fistonic
From a 1959 road test in The Autocar.


Maximum speed

1st - 18 mph
2nd - 27 mph
3rd - 44 mph
4th - 57 mph (mean), 61 mph (best)

Acceleration

0 - 10 mph - 2.1 sec
0 - 20 mph - 5.9 sec
0 - 30 mph - 12.1 sec
0 - 40 mph - 21.6 sec

Standing quarter mile - 29.0 sec

What a rocket!

By the 1964 Autocar road test, power had risen from 16.5 to 17.5bhp and performance was transformed-

1st - 19 mph
2nd - 30 mph
3rd - 47 mph
4th - 60.5 mph (mean), 61 mph (best)

Acceleration

0 - 30 mph - 8.7 sec
0 - 40 mph - 15.7 sec
0 - 50 mph - 31 sec

[f1steveuk]

Originally posted by 2F-001
Take a look here http://www.italiaspe...mouse/1108.html for a proposed carbon-composite constructed "Fiat 500" with a 200bhp bike engine...

I think I'd like one of those!

[dbw]

ok guys.. let's just get our fiats in a row..[stu, jump in any time]...as these seem to be all called "topolinos" at one time or another -and even the 600s mistaken for the 500 here's a broad look...

1. fiat 500 [topolino]-1936-1955

*front engine [actually ahead of the front axle!!] - rear drive

*500cc water cooled inline sidevalve 4.....live rear axle with quarter eliptic leaf springs

*double transverse leaf spring front suspension...[.the donor for many 500cc fIII cars]

*separate frame body..[.the latter a donor for many pro gassers in the us]

2. fiat nuova 500...1957-1975

*rear engine - rear drive.

*500cc air-cooled inline OHV twin---90 degrees to axle

*swing arm rear axle - single lower leaf front suspension

*unibody construction [some special models available like the biancina]

3. fiat 600...1955-1969

*rear engine-rear drive [and a larger car than the 500 nuova]

*600cc water cooled inline OHV 4..iron block- alloy head

*swing arm rear axle

*unibody construction...this car was used as a platform for a majority of early abarth cars..from

stock bodied hotrods to zagato bodied delights

* the basis for the infamous multipla..[the 36 hp vw van of italy- only worse ]

*. fiat 850..a continuation of the 600...nicely restyled and upgraded but still a rear engined fiat in

the 600 mold

--as for me i've owned and hotrodded all four..but the 500cc air cooled twin is still the most fun

to drive...

[D-Type]

By those descriptions, my model is the rear-engined Nuovo 500. But it has Abarth badges and so it might be an 850 TC.

BTW where did the Steyr-Puch 500 fit into the scheme of things? Was it a Fiat body with Steyr-Puch engine?

[Wolf]

dbw- You've forgotten Fiat 126... Dunno when it was produced in Italy, but three types were produced in Poland (and one still is AFAIK), those bearing Fiat 126p designation. First two types, I've owned the first type, and it was replaced with 2nd which I still drive, had air cooled (600 and latter one 650cc) straight 2 engines, while the latest was 700cc water-cooled flat 2. I think the 3rd model was discontinued and they reverted to 650cc air-cooled model. The 650cc model has 24BHP. As for suspension both types I owned had leaf spring in front and diagonal suspension arms at the rear.

Incidentaly, my father raced 500 in his youth (I think it was the model with doors that had hinges at the back), and wat the first in Yu to leave the engine compartment open for cooling (it soon caught on), independent from practice on Abarth cars (and prior to that, IIRC). He even won a race where he had a dice with a priest in Mercedes- priest got in front on straights, whereas Pa Wolf had to drive around him in the corners. It is worth noting that the prize for the first place was fabric for one suit... Later on he went with his mate to purchase Abarth 500, and that's anecdote for itself. But his mate later on became Yu champion, while Pa Wolf retired from racing both cars and bikes early (family and stuff)...

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by D-Type
where did the Steyr-Puch 500 fit into the scheme of things? Was it a Fiat body with Steyr-Puch engine?

A Nuova 500 built under licence in Austria with 500cc Steyr engine

[dbw]

yes...the 126 was introduced in 1972 as a continuation of the original 500...i don't think these ever made it to the USA and i've never actually seen one...looks as if they made air and water cooled- so at least it had water to leak as well as oil.

[aldo]

This is real Nostalgia!
The Fiat Nuova 500 was my first car: I mean, the first one I owned. It was bought by instalments together with my fiancée, when we were both at the university. No shock from switching from family's Alfas to our 500: it was a wonderful car, fond of memories. We spent our honeymoon travelling in it up to John-O'-Groats. And back to Milano, of course.
It lasted 95.000 km without any expense beyond ordinary maintenance, then we traded it for a Fiat 127.
It could be fun to know that, to make the 500 more fashionable and cozy, Borrani wire wheels were available: they are back, new production perfectly recreating the old ones.
I also owned a Fiat 126 as city car: an ugly, uncomfortable junk. I got rid of it after a few months for my first Panda (the Ghidella era one, not today's rubbish bin).

[ian senior]

Originally posted by aldo

I also owned a Fiat 126 as city car: an ugly, uncomfortable junk. I got rid of it after a few months for my first Panda (the Ghidella era one, not today's rubbish bin).

Oh, the 126 .... much maligned, but not entirely deservedly. Some say that were lacking in charm compared the the 500. That may well be true, but they were not without their own brand of quirkiness.

A girlfriend of mine had one. Get it on a dual carriageway and given time, it would bowl along merrily in excess of the legal limit, but should anything get in its way, you were stuffed and had to start the long process of buliding up speed all over again. The gearbox was fine on the move, but selecting reverse was often a two-handed job involving much swearing (ladies shouldn't use language like that, and neither should men, come to think of it). Starting up could be interesting - if it did decide to start (something that could never be guaranteed) the whole rear end of the car would shake about violently, as though two big blokes were standing outside rocking the car about and making guttural sounds while doing so. In motion, there was much pitching about the front end - probably what F1 drivers of the time would recognise as "porpoising". Accomodation was surprisingly good - we once got 8 people in it, even if two of them were standing up with their heads poking through the sun roof.

Happy days - perhaps.

[f1steveuk]

I spent some time with a friend of mine recently. He used to do the pit lane interviews when we were at F1 digital. He has now returned home to Corleone (yep, THAT Corleone, in Sicily!) There are Fiat 500s by the bucket load (is that the correct collective name? Pride of Lions, Murder of Crows, hence Bucket of Fiats???) very ceap, rust free, and nearly all variants. I borrowed a suicide door model for three days, and went to Ena, and can recommend it, and you might be able to buy a cheap Fiat!

[Antoine Pilette]

A company does good Abarth replicas but I don't remember the website or where I've read about.
I think the car might be brand new, not just an old 500 converted.
Would be nice to have some Renault 4cv "Le Mans" (1063 or 1093??) replicas!

[bill moffat]

I believe LJK Setright was a great fan of the Fiat 126, an ideal stablemate to the Bristol I suppose...

[Wolf]

Ian, I may be very partial, but they seem to be quite too much maligned. They do have their quirks, but do not need much in way of maintenance. Just adjusting points and cleaning spark-plugs once in a while. They tend to sheatr joints on half-shafts with some regularity, but presuming one has a spare (costs about 8$ around here) onboard and a large wrench (#32, I belive- BTW, I have both in my car) the problem is easily solved ad one is merrily on his way in about half an hour*... Another silly thing is that because of vibrations in the engine compartment a contact on ignition condenser tends to unscrew itself loose, cutting the enine out.

* the only problem might be to determine which part of the joint to replace- but if one knows enough to replace it, it shouldn't be a problem either

Anyways, a touch of rain (preferrably, but not neccessarily) and a nice country road and one can really enjoy driving the little bugger. It's just the overtaking that might be a spot of a problem, and requires a bit of tactical thinking...

[ian senior]

Originally posted by Wolf
Another silly thing is that because of vibrations in the engine compartment a contact on ignition condenser tends to unscrew itself loose, cutting the enine out.

Yes Wolf, that's another thing I remember only too well! Groping about in the engine compartment by torchlight in the rain, trying to work out what was wrong, with Helen sitting inside the car and asking why hadn't I fixed it yet....

[f1steveuk]

Mine only went wrong three times. The starter was on a cable I think, it tipped up to engage when you pulled a lever on the floor, cable snapped and left it in the up position. That dodgy hand throttle decided to keep the throttle open once (and I hadn't touched it!!), and a valve went right through a piston. Perfect round hole, extreme lack of compression!!!

[Wolf]

Ahh, the starter cable is a minor inconvinience. Once the pin on starter engine (the one holding the cable) sheared while I was trying to start her up- I just got of the car, found a wooden stick and used it to engage the starter from the engine compartment. Speaking of the throttle, fortunately quite the opposite thing happened to me. I was transporting my grandma and good deal of supplies for the winter (sacks of potatoes and cabbage, not that I touch the latter) and when I was crossing the tramlines on a biiig intersection a bit holding the throttle cable to the carb broke. I jumped out of the stalled car and pushed it out of the intersection, where I fastened the cable to the lever using a bit of wire. The thing remained like that for almost a year before I remembered to put in the 'original' piece.

Ian- lucky her. I have a 'funny' torch in my car: it doesn't have batteries, but the handle has to be 'pumped' (driving the dyno inside)- so my dates have to get out in the rain and operate the torch while I work (happened only once, and the date we were returning from wasn't all too great, so I considered it a fitting 'punishment').

[Graham Gauld]

Just to add my tuppenceworth I owned about three Fiat 500's and later two 126's. They were great little cars. My first 500 I bought second hand from Scottish racing driver Ninian Sanderson. I had trouble with it about a week afterwards and told Ninian about it. The "sympathetic" Ninian typically replied "...well you shouldn't have bought the bloody thing !". Sanderson was amusingly ruthless in the showroom. When one of his salesmen had difficulty closing a deal Ninian went up to the poor customer and told him he had two minutes to make up his mind or else he could "f... off!" The customer signed and bought the car !!!!! I long for the return to those days of political incorrectness.

[D-Type]

Great stuff:

I believe 'arry's car at Reims was a Vespa 400.

The original Topolino Mille Miglia entry with sticky tape over the bodywork joins to improve the airflow and the one with manually operated brake lights to confuse the opposition! (If I remember Challenge me the Race correctly)

Was Ian Scott-Watson or Ninian Sanderson who had a Goggomobile and a broken leg at the same time?

Did you know that the 500 had a tight enough lock to do a U-turn in Downing Street (In the days when mere citizens were allowed to use it)?

But .... Vitesse "Special Edition", catalogue number VLL 118

Model - Fiat 500, maybe a Fiat-Abarth or Abarth
Colour - basically white, right hand side of bonnet red and white chequers, left hand side is yellow
Race number - 170
Registration number - 842088 TO - so a Torino registration
Sponsors - "NOVOLAN" in yellow letters front and rear

Does nobody know?

[Graham Gauld]

It was Ian Scott Watson who had the Goggo. He bought it to save petrol !!!!! I drove it on a number of occasions. It was unique at the time in having a four speed gearbox where you changed gear side to side rather than fore and aft. Jim Clark used it at driving test events and I have photos of Jim in the car. Ian later sold it and I never saw another Goggo. Ian did not break his leg as far as I remember.

[JB Miltonian]

D Type:

Looking in the Abarth books I have here at home, the registration number TO842088 does not show up the listing of Fiat 600-based competition cars, but it still might be a 500-based car. I found a picture of an 850TC (600-based) with Novolan markings on the rear fenders, and I found a b/w picture of a 600-based car with checkers on the right side of the bonnet and plain paint on the left side, but its registration number is TOE48802. I found a Novolan advertisement in an Italian magazine from 1970, and their logo is a blue giraffe in a yellow octogon.

It isn't difficult to tell the difference between a 500-based car and a 600-based car, if you know what to look for. I have a 600 Sedan and a 600 Multipla.

[flat-16]

When MOTOR SPORT printed a shot of Clark in the Goggo, the caption underneath read "The Sublime in the Ridiculous"

Must say that I've always fancied a Cafe Racer, but they're not as cheap as they once were... IIRC, Tarox make (or used to...) replacement drums of the "grooved" variety, and CSC make an exhaust for the standard 500.

Justin