17 replies to this topic

[Don Capps]

Recently, I was rummaging through some of my magazines and came across a quick interview with John Bishop in the July 1997 issue of Racer .

When asked about the biggest problem of the newly announced World Sportscar Championship:

I thought it would be better if the cars were less technically developed. I think a lot of people have drifted away from racing because of the emphasis on technology. You can't sell Formula 1 over here, for example. That's not my idea of sport.

Is that the real problem with Formula 1, or is a big part of it driver attitude?

Yeah. I remember when the F1 guys would joke with the press guys and civilians at Watkins Glen. It was great. When they started ducking into theor motr homes, that was that.

Just some interesting -- to me at any rate -- words from one of the real movers and shakers of racing in our time.

[Ray Bell]

In a way, one problem has bred the other...

The greater reliance on 'technology' leads to the need for longer and more intensive briefing and debriefing sessions, hence the team manager spends more time locked up with the drivers, the drivers spend more time with the engineers and on it goes.

Of course, overall, he's right.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Who?


I dont blame the drivers so much as the sport for giving birth to them. I think NASCAR is actually the worst for driver image. Fortunately F1 interviews, while restrained at best, have not become infomercials. This new crop of rookies are the blandest ive ever seen. They're like PR goons in racing suits. Ryan Newman has a naturally quiet demeanor, but Kurt Busch is like taking a double dose of Nyquil.

[Joe Fan]

I agree with Mr. Bishop's opinion. However, what is funny is that this quote is from the 1997 season, back when I still liked F1. Now it has become objectionably too tech-oriented for my tastes and I think I have watched a grand net total of one hour of the entire 2002 F1 season.

[Jim Thurman]

Interesting comments from Mr. Bishop. Thanks for posting them Don.

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
Who?

Former SCCA Pro Racing head, later created, formed and ran IMSA.

I dont blame the drivers so much as the sport for giving birth to them. I think NASCAR is actually the worst for driver image. Fortunately F1 interviews, while restrained at best, have not become infomercials. This new crop of rookies are the blandest ive ever seen. They're like PR goons in racing suits. Ryan Newman has a naturally quiet demeanor, but Kurt Busch is like taking a double dose of Nyquil.

Ross, yes the sanctioning bodies themselves have to shoulder a lot of the blame for dancing with the monster (so to speak). NASCAR is worst because of it's overly commercial bent and creating everything to go with all that entails (blatantly dishonest marketing comes to mind).

So we end up with the carefully crafted and concocted media images. Which leads to situations like p.r. flacks initially trying to make Tony Stewart conform to the cookie cutter. When he didn't conform totally (somewhat to his credit)...the exact same p.r. machine goes into similar machinations and, voila!, Stewart then becomes the anti- , the driver "not afraid to speak his mind", the "antidote to bland drivers", yada, yada, yada...

Imagine the brainstorming session that led to the revised approach.

Mr. Bishop's remarks about disappearing into the trailers...that has even filtered down to U.S. short track oval racing. I've heard and read several comments about this, but one of the first and best I heard was from California short track legend Al Pombo, who commented that it was the biggest change from his time. He said that drivers now disappeared into their enclosed haulers right after the races, adding that was hard to do when he raced since everyone had open trailers, usually hitched to trucks.

I'll add that the down side was it allowed more "discussions", since a disgruntled driver only had to look for the right trailer


Jim Thurman

[Ross Stonefeld]

Willy T Ribbs in another RACER interview had it perfect. His basic idea is that the sponsors micro-manage the advertising a little too much. The initial appeal of racing beyond the rolling billboard is also that the drivers are a different kind of character and that was part of the package. Ribbs contends that the sponsors should put in their money, sit back, and let the drivers be drivers. Hell Alan Iverson is practically in jail and Reebok are saying they wont reneg on any of their sponsorship deals. So why should racing drivers have to practically crawl on glass to keep a sponsor happy.

[Vitesse2]

Ross: "infomercials" and "product placement" go back a long way. It's only with overt sponsorship that they became more brazen. Take for example this closing sentence from an Autocar report on the Italian GP:

The winning car used Pirelli tyres on Rudge-Whitworth wire wheels. The Bugattis had Solex carburettors, and all the cars finished the race on Champion plugs."

The date? September 11th 1925.

[rdrcr]

I would like to have read the whole article.... So my following words might not be so out of place. Technology, especially in higher forms of racing like WSC should be present. I can't understand why Mr. Bishop would think otherwise. There is so much information available that will help the driver and the team perform to a higher level that it seems a shame not to utilize it. Telemetry, composites, electronic aids, sequential shifting, all seem perfectly suited to going 200 mph. I can tell you that in the brief time I had in a R & S WSC car was most visceral. Even though there were all sorts of "aids" the physical aspects of driving were most prevalent. The steering was heavy, until one came up to speed, Brakes, they didn't start to work until those temperatures were reached, and even though it had an electrical cutout for the sequential shifting, one had to be rather forceful upon take off or the damn thing would stall, 800hp and 660 ft of torque isn't docile. It took 15 -20 minutes to instruct me how to use a car for 30. And we didn't get to the switching of display modes on the dash... I loved it.

Moving on...

Part of the problem isn't so much drivers running directly into their coaches for debriefing after practice and qualifying, but at least in F1 anyway, the exclusion of fans from the pit area has greatly diminished the interaction. Though I will say, that because there is such a demand on all levels to perform, the information that needs to be discussed has created less and less time. Add to that, obligations to team sponsors and their guests and other contractual duties, the modern day driver doesn't have a chance to interact with the crowd, I'm pretty sure most would want to, to some extent, for they are racing nuts too, and showing appreciation and sharing the experience is part of the deal... I think that Sports Cars offers the best blend of interesting racing and fan interaction. As far as the lesser series are concerned, I can't speak towards the short track scene, but in the SCCA, there is still a touch of camaraderie once the sorting out process has been taken care of. Though much less today than in years previous I'm told.

These days, the effort to win, let alone place place in the top three takes extreme focus. The competition is very tough out there, on all levels. And if you want to win, it takes every bit of that focus to do it. If one wants to be a "sportsman" they can have fun and still finish top 10, but no one will take them seriously.

To touch on Ross's observations of the recent crop of NASCAR driver's I'd say he's right about both men. To expand just a bit on Ryan Newman. His quiet demeanor is the real deal. Penske found him on the short tracks in Indiana, but I'm sure he sees every bit of Mark Donohue in that young man. He is quite bright, with a background in engineering and I think just as good, if not a better racer. It will be a shame if all that talent is isolated in circle racing. But he's there to win races and help the team. So he's doing his "job" quite well.

NASCAR has really prostituted "Corporatespeak" to an all new level. When 'ol Rusty jumps out after a win and declares that his Miller lite, Mobil One, Goodyear shod, Penske powered, Ford Taurus hot rod was set-up great by his crew, I just want to puke. This sponsor speak rolls off their tongues like they practice in the mirror. I mean some recognition is one thing, but it's gotten ridiculous in the past decade.

Granted, "Win on Sunday, sell on Monday" has been around since the early years, but to have sponsor's names become a prefix in drivers mouths is putting that Corporatespeak in place of a driver's personality. It's a big difference.

[Option1]

Great post Richard!

Ross, one thing I'd say re your point about Iverson and his Reebock sponsorship is that these days sponsors usually go that route when their STARS are in trouble. They know that at the moment the "star's" fans are still in disbelief and that Reebock would only cop negative publicity for pulling out their $. Should Iverson be convicted and receive a lengthy custodial sentence then Reebock will drop him like a handbag.

Still playing that same game, should he be convicted but walk with something like probation then Reebock will stick with him. Their PR would use lines like, "We know that he made a mistake and he knows he made a mistake, but he's only human from a poor struggling ghetto family, yada, yada, (ignoring the multi-millions he makes now) and we want to show our solid support for his efforts to move on, yada, yada."

Those lines play really well with the fan base that someone like an Africian-American NBA player has.

With a NASCAR driver in the same situation some sponsors might play it the same - poor white boy done makin' good, but havin' a bit o' trouble coping with sudden fame - while others might decide to run. My guess is most would hang around, depending on the image that has previously been cultivated for the driver. What the crime or trouble he's in would be pretty irrelevant as it's easy enough for the spin doctors with the help of an adoring media circus to dismiss the crime as a conspiracy, an attempt by someone (almost invariably a woman) to blackmail their snowwhite-butter-wouldn't-melt driver, or mere trifle that shouldn't interfere with their young god's ability to indulge in the really important stuff in life such as winning races.

All of which of course illustrates the real problem to me - image and spin doctoring. Or as someone else has already called it - blatantly dishonest marketing.

Neil

[rdrcr]

Originally posted by Jim Thurman
....Former SCCA Pro Racing head, later created, formed and ran IMSA...

BTW, in case some of you don't know, Mr. Bishop is currently the President of the Watkins Glen Research Center. The library at the center was dedicated in his name.

A fine organization indeed.

[cabianca]

Technology is both good and bad for the sport. Having a full field at the end of a race is one advantage. Having ground effects shorten the braking distance so there is no passing is a disadvantage. Sports car racing in the US shouldn't be worrying about technology. There's a much bigger problem to solve. As CART/IRL have proven, there's only a limited audience for open wheel and sports car road racing. As long as two sanctioning organizations are competing for the spectators in both open wheel and sports car racing, none of the four organizations will suceed. Since both the Frances and the Georges have unlimited funds to continue to pursue irrational, ego-driven, money-losing business plans, nothing good is going to come about until CART and Panoz go broke and throw in the towel. That may take a while, and during that time, NASCAR will add more market share. Pity the poor road course owners, at least those without a NASCAR date.

[Ray Bell]

Australia has a similar problem with AVESCO (the V8 tintip jokers) and PROCAR (not sure what they have)... they have their core category and take on a group of other classes as support races that follow their meetings all round the country.

But their core category is the one they want promoted, the one they want to succeed and the group that gets all the money, the others are along hoping to get something out of it and probably don't...

And the two groups are, naturally, fighting against each other at times... I think there's another one, Power Tour... or is that a PROCAR thing? The only thing the general media follows is the V8s, so how can a bloke know anything if he doesn't read the popular mags or go to the meetings?

So the circuits, naturally, stand or fall depending on whether or not they have a V8 meeting... Lakeside died without it already.

[Bernd]

Ray Procar are just as bad from what I've seen. Their ineptness at management has transformed the once vibrant GT racing in Australia into just another category and a split one at that... We are now only about 4 months away from the 24 Hour race they are hoping to run at the Mountain and I still have not been convinced they will be able to pull it off, as the modifiations they wish to make to the buildings, pits etc are not done yet.

The event has great promise. The thought of 80+ Sportscars on the Mountain is intoxicating, but if Procar ****s it up I will not be amused.

[Ray Bell]

Track limit is 55 cars... end of story.

That's by Government legislation. One contact I have told me just two months ago that no approach has been made to CAMS for a permit to run the event, either. And that contact lives in Bathurst and has a seat on a CAMS panel. I sincerely doubt that the Council will allow 'their' circuit to be used without CAMS involvement.

But I hope it comes off, even at 45 cars... and even if 30 of them are local cars... fifteen really good imported cars would make a marvellous sight. Though I suspect local laundries will be very busy after the first practice.

[Bernd]

Yeah I know Ray but they have somehow circumvented that rule. Here is the latest Press Release released on the 17th July.

AUSTRALIA's first major 24-hour motor race is on schedule for 16-17 November this year at Bathurst's Mount Panorama circuit, with the announcement in Sydney today of television and ticketing arrangements and several
prospective entries.

Tickets will go on sale next Monday for the race, which will be telecast around Australia on the Seven Network.

Agreements to show the race on Australian pay television and in Britain, Europe, Asia and New Zealand also are in the pipeline.

The starting grid for the Bathurst 24-Hour will be able to take up to 83 sports and touring cars - and already 12 overseas teams have expressed strong interest in running against some of Australia's top outfits.

One of the first to advise an intended entry is United Kingdom-based Australian driver VJ Angelo, who is visiting home this week to further arrangements for his team to race a BMW M Coupe in the outright class.

Mr Angelo, 36, raced the 380-horsepower BMW at last month's Nurburgring 24-hour in Germany and will test it at England's Snetterton track later this week before shipping it to Australia in September.

Organiser PROCAR Australia said it had finalised agreements with the Bathurst City Council, the Seven Network and International Management Group, which will provide ticketing, sales operational and other services for the
race.

PROCAR Australia Chairman Ross Palmer said he expected an influx of entries after today's announcements.

"Since we first announced the Bathurst 24-Hour race in March, interest has been intense from all quarters because this will be one of the world's great motorsport challenges," he said.

"Until now, there has been only one chance a year to race at Australia's most famous track, but the 24-Hour opens the door for many drivers who otherwise would never get the chance.

"Mount Panorama is legendary for its high top speeds, its enthralling climb and descent, its atmosphere, its history and even its changeable weather and any driver with a gram of emotion yearns for a crack at it.

"Well, the Bathurst 24-Hour will require up to 300 such drivers with international-class licences. The challenge to win will almost be secondary to that of just making it around the clock."

Mr Palmer said the Seven Network was committed to providing at least four hours' live national coverage, including overnight updates, between the race start at 4pm on Saturday 16 November and the finish at 4 pm on Sunday.

"We're extremely pleased to welcome Seven as host television broadcaster at Bathurst," he continued.

"We look forward to superb coverage from the Seven team, which built a great reputation on its pioneering live Bathurst broadcasts and in more recent times distinguished itself with its coverage of the 2000 Sydney Olympic
Games - and as it no doubt will again with the forthcoming Manchester Commonwealth Games.

"Seven will underpin an extensive international telecast. We are in active negotiations with broadcasters throughout the world to take live and delayed television packages."

Bathurst City Council, which owns the Mount Panorama facility and the public roads that will become the 6.2 kilometre circuit for four days from 14 November, will erect special lighting for the race.

International Management Group, whose Gold Coast-based motorsport division runs the Honda Indy 300, Bathurst 1000 and several other major events in Australia and New Zealand, has contracted to supply ticketing and accreditation, major sponsorship, signage and hospitality sales.

It also will enlist and manage up to 1000 officials and volunteers, along with other operational responsibilities.

Bathurst 24-Hour (16-17 November 2002) - potential overseas entrants

VJ Angelo, UK/Australia, BMW M Coupe
Nordauto Sport Alfa 156 (drivers Nicola Larini, Fabrizio Giovanardi, Romano Bernadoni)
Robert Brung, Germany, Nissan Skyline GT-R
Mike Newton, UK, Porsche GT3R
Mark Klein, US, Honda Integra
Graham Nash Motorsport, UK, 2 x Porsche GT3 RS
Martin Short, UK, TVR Tuscan
Ross Buckingham & Gary Ayles, UK, 2 x BTCC Alfa 156
Porsche Motorsport NZ (Lyall Williamson), 3 x Porsche GT3
Peter Seikel USA & Andrew Bagnall, NZ, Porsche GT3 RS
Sam Li, UK, Ferrari 360
Stephane Ratel Organisation, Lamborghini Super Trophy.

I really hope it goes ahead that's I can say. All of the hotels in Bathurst are pretty much all booked out already mostly with group bookings from teams, so it does look promising.

[Ray Bell]

I'll be in Bathurst at the weekend working...

I will have a chat to see what the latest is there. Maybe there are some sour grapes that CAMS weren't the ones that announced it and did all the breast-beating?

Wonder if four hours coverage will be enough, or if interest in the lead-up will encourage them to do more? No doubt they'll package more for later distribution.

[cabianca]

Since we've wandered off topic anyway and have spoken of Bathurst, US boys, Sam Posey and Dick Barbour ran a Camero at Bathurst in 1980. Does anyone have a result or race number?

[Ray Bell]

The second Ron Dickson entry had Paul Newman and Dick Barbour as drivers, entered as No 12.

The car qualified 18th on the grid with a time of 2:31.5... Bartlett (Camaro) had pole with 2:20.97... Barbour and Posey retired after 91 laps with gearbox trouble.